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Indefinite New England Patriots Thread

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Um yeah, but this IS the Pats thread so I was kinda hoping to get the opinion of other locals. Are you sick of talking about Mallet?

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It would not surprise me if they made a run at signing Decker to essentially trade Welker for Decker. It would strengthen their own team while weakening their biggest competition.

I haven't watched enough of him to know how I'd feel about him being a #1 outside guy. I mean I guess he's #2 behind Gronk anyway, and potentially even #3 behind the slot guy. If he can be had for a decent contract I'd be all for it, but I think he capitalizes on the 2013 Bronco hype and gets a ton of money by the Rams or someone and disappears.

Decker had 1 catch for 6 yards on Sherman's side.

This guy has bust written all over him outside of Denver.

No thanks.

That is very short sided, Jimmy Graham had 0 catches against Talib this season, Calvin Johnson had only 3 catches for 25 yards against Haden. Decker will be ok outside of Denver in the right spot. If he goes to another good offense he will be just fine.

They will not overpay for this guy. Guaranteed.

Some other moron team will give him too much.

Good.

I'd rather they continue to grow Dobson and Thompkins.

Or draft a young TE while signing T. Gonzalez for 1 year to sit alongside Gronk.

I don't think Brady's skills are what they used to be, although he's still better than most, and the window is closing fast IMO. I don't think they can wait on these guys to develop, they need to pull a Randy Moss type move and quick. I think a Decker or Nicks signing is what the doctor ordered.

Edited by JohnnyU

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Do you all think we trade Mallet? And if so what would be the realistic draft pick we could get that would make it worthwhile. I'm thinking it would take a 2nd rounder.

I think it would take a second rounder as well, or possibly a third and a fourth/player. I don't think we trade Mallet, though, as I don't think there are any teams at this time that would be willing to pay that price. But you never know.

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It would not surprise me if they made a run at signing Decker to essentially trade Welker for Decker. It would strengthen their own team while weakening their biggest competition.

I haven't watched enough of him to know how I'd feel about him being a #1 outside guy. I mean I guess he's #2 behind Gronk anyway, and potentially even #3 behind the slot guy. If he can be had for a decent contract I'd be all for it, but I think he capitalizes on the 2013 Bronco hype and gets a ton of money by the Rams or someone and disappears.

Decker had 1 catch for 6 yards on Sherman's side.

This guy has bust written all over him outside of Denver.

No thanks.

That is very short sided, Jimmy Graham had 0 catches against Talib this season, Calvin Johnson had only 3 catches for 25 yards against Haden. Decker will be ok outside of Denver in the right spot. If he goes to another good offense he will be just fine.

They will not overpay for this guy. Guaranteed.

Some other moron team will give him too much.

Good.

I'd rather they continue to grow Dobson and Thompkins.

Or draft a young TE while signing T. Gonzalez for 1 year to sit alongside Gronk.

I don't think Brady's skills are what they used to be, although he's still better than most, and the window is closing fast IMO. I don't think they can wait on these guys to develop, they need to pull a Randy Moss type move and quick. I think a Decker or Nicks signing is what the doctor ordered.
I agree that obtaining a proven, deep threat is the top need offensively for the Pats, but I'm not sure Decker or Nicks are the solution. Would they be an upgrade? Sure. But, after a year in the system for Dobson and Thompkins, I don't think either Decker or Nicks are enough of an upgrade to substantiate signing either of them (unless they could do on the cheap).

Personally, I don't like many of the WR FA options for the Pats. I actually would prefer the status quo while adding (if possible) an athletic hybrid WR/TE in the draft, and focus on the OL/DL/DB in FA.

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I agree. None of the free agent WRs seem like the answer. I would prefer getting a good TE in the draft. Take advantage of Brady's strength now - short, accurate passes. I'm not convinced he can throw deep well at all for the past couple of years. This is one reason I think the offense evolved into having two very good offensive TEs. And welker. You know back when we had good players on offense.

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What do folks think about the Michael Lombardi hire? I'm not really familiar with what his skills are as a coach, but I hear he's a personnell guy.

He's a buddy of Belichik's from his Cleveland Brown days...he is a front-office guy...Bill makes all the decisions so I don't think it's too much more than helping out a friend after he got axed...probably will be in some sort of advisor role...

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I know many Pats fans will be thrilled to hear about the release of Gregory, as he has been the true scapegoat of the team for a little over a year now. I always thought Gregory was better than what he was given credit for by fans and the media, who tended (as they do) to zero in on a few specific very bad plays (e.g. some blatant - slightly humiliating - missed tackles). Getting caught in the open field was his weakness, which is something you can't have for a safety. But, IMO, he was a good run-stopper and covered well.

At any rate, since the Pats had negotiations at the combine with Talib, I would presume that this could be a sign that things are going well. As I see it, if things weren't going well in the Talib talks and the Pats felt that it was likely he would sign elsewhere, then their greatest need immediately becomes CB. If that were true, I don't think it's likely that they'd release Gregory, as they wouldn't want to further deprive the secondary of depth.

OR, as another take, the release of Gregory could mean the team thinks Adrian Wilson is healthy and able to contribute in some role this upcoming season. I'm not sure that's the case, though.

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Gregory was an OK player...nothing special...at less money and with less of a role he can help a team...the Pats needed him to be better than he is and due to that some Patriot fans were really down on him...I blame the team more than him for that...the Pats have had zero success finding a big hitting safety since Rodney left and it has been a big issue...opposing offenses have zero fear of going over the middle on them...I really hope they are not counting on Adrian Wilson...hopefully he can come back but anything he provides is a bonus...right now Tavan Wilson Wilson looks like a waste of a second round pick...I like Harmon but he really doesn't fill that physical presence role...unless they really have faith in Adrian Wilson I gotta believe they will be adding another piece to this unit...

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I don't see them cutting Amendola. He was hobbled the entire season and gutted it out to play week to week. So I would not look at his on field performance as indicative as to what he could do if healthy. I know, I know he could easily get hurt again. He struggled to get separation and get open, but I think he will do better next year.

As far as Edelman goes, I am not as high on him as others are. He clearly benefited from all the other injuries and getting force fed the ball. So I would not consider him for big money WR. He got Welker-like targets (173) and did not put up quite the numbers that Wes did before him. The free agent market should be kinder than last year for Edelman, but I still don't see him getting big dollars. I don't see him getting a ton of money no matter where he goes.

If he does return to NE, I don't see him getting similar production if the other guys stay healthy. Based on that, it will be interesting to see how much the Pats offer him. I do think they look to bring in other receivers like they did between the 2006 and 2007 seasons.

I agree - I don't see them cutting Amendola either.

However, I'm curious about how you compare Amendola and Edelman. Do you think they bring the same qualities and could produce similar results if put in similar situations?

For instance, suppose Edleman had the groin injury this year and Amendola was completely healthy. In your opinion, would Amendola have produced the same, less, or more than Edelman had? I know it's hard to predict the results of such a supposition, especially given the fact that we have seen what a healthy Amendola can do in this system. But I'm curious about how you view the two players in comparison to one another.

Yes, I think Amendola with 150+ targets would have produced what Edelman did, maybe slightly better.

Using ESPN target data, there have been 59 players that had 150 or more targets in a season since 2006. Of those, Edelman's 2013 season ranked 54th in receiving yards, 58th in yds/rec, and tied for 40th in TD. In summary, he got a lot of help based on volume of targets and short receptions. One could argue that the lack of other threats depressed his totals as teams could focus more on him, but I still think he will lose a fair amount of production if NE can field other receiving options.

No one thinks it's odd then Edelman never sniffed this production and only produced after the guys role he was in was because Amendola's groin was an issue all year? Edelman will not even be brought back and the team that signs him will see he was part of the system that wasnt even intended for him in the first place. Amendola will be the slot guy this year, if he can stay healthy, and will produce those numbers.

As we have Seen with Welker, and Edelman in the replacement role, it is a position of production not the players itself. If a person new to football played the slot in New England they would catch 100 balls. While welker put up some TDs this year and was part of an offense that had much talent, he didn't produce like he has in New England and some will say he had a better QB.

Welker dropped from 173 Targets in 2011 and 175 in 2012 to 111 in 2013. Edelman never had over 54 in any one year in his four years, in fact he only had 108 targets in his 4 years combined before his 151 this year. It is the slot position of the Patriots offense, not the name of the player. This is enough proof for me to understand that. Manning also attempted roughly 30 more passes than Brady did.

Edited by False Start

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I know it probably won't happen but I would love to see what Brandin Cooks could do on the Pats. Everyone has us taking at TE. Maybe BB will surprise us?

Edited by Gandalf
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Not going to miss Gregory at all, mediocre (at best) is the word that comes to mind and his cap number was too big for his level of play. Agree with Boston that the team has not had a good safety (or a really good D) since Rodney left. Maybe Harmon will be a better option, I don't think he could be much worse than Gregory; either way the perennial search continues for talent at that position.

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I know it probably won't happen but I would love to see what Brandin Cooks could do on the Pats. Everyone has us taking at TE. Maybe BB will surprise us?

Agreed, I only saw a little of the combine, but Cooks really stood out and I thought he would look awesome in a Pats uniform :yes:

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If the Pats feel Mallet can be a good starting QB, they would be wise to trade Brady after this season.

Would Christians trade Jesus just because he's getting old? Nope. Not gonna happen. I don't argue that it might make sense, but it's just not gonna happen.

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With the salary cap going up roughly 27 million over the next 3 years I see the Patriots getting a deal done with Talib. With the cap going up so much I could see them making a run at Decker, or Nicks. I still would like to see them bring in Britt on the cheap for a 1 or 2 year deal and see if he can be motivated the way Moss was when he came to the Pats. I don't see Britt putting up close to those numbers but he was a legit number 1 receiver when healthy and motivated. If he bombs out in camp he shouldn't be hard to cut.

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Are the Pats dangling Amendola...now that's an interesting rumor...I am a big Edelman fan (he is on the same page as Brady and that is really underrated as far as Patriot WRs go) and would like him back but I think it's hard to justify paying both Amendola and Edelman big money...something's gotta give here...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/01/report-patriots-have-floated-danny-amendolas-name-in-trade-discussions/

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I'd love to see it but who would take amendola with his contract and injury history? How bad is the cap hit again if we cut him? I think we just have to keep him and hope he gets healthy. Then cut him when the cap penalty wouldn't be too high. Anyone know when that would be?

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If the Pats feel Mallet can be a good starting QB, they would be wise to trade Brady after this season.

Would Christians trade Jesus just because he's getting old? Nope. Not gonna happen. I don't argue that it might make sense, but it's just not gonna happen.

And then we trade BB for a 1st rounder!

Never gonna happen. Ever. You don't trade Tom Brady. I don't care if we go 0-16. Brady needs to retire as a Patriot.

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I'd love to see it but who would take amendola with his contract and injury history? How bad is the cap hit again if we cut him? I think we just have to keep him and hope he gets healthy. Then cut him when the cap penalty wouldn't be too high. Anyone know when that would be?

If you believe Rotoworld, Pats would save $1.375M if they cut him after June 1st. I really don't think Amendola's contract is that out of line compared to other receivers in the league. He signed for 5 years and $28.6 million. If that money is considered on the high side, I don't think Edelman is worth that much either. He's only been healthy one year in his career. I tend to agree with the philosophy that "NE Slot Receiver" will be productive just based on the system and the QB.

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This issue with that contract and Amendola is you can't rely on him to stay healthy. Maybe what they should do is keep him on the bench in bubble wrap until the playoffs? I'm kidding but not completely. Wow another 4 years?

Agreed on Edelman. I think Cooks in the draft would be my answer. Go get him BB! (Maybe he reads this thread???)

Edited by Gandalf

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Are the Pats dangling Amendola...now that's an interesting rumor...I am a big Edelman fan (he is on the same page as Brady and that is really underrated as far as Patriot WRs go) and would like him back but I think it's hard to justify paying both Amendola and Edelman big money...something's gotta give here...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/01/report-patriots-have-floated-danny-amendolas-name-in-trade-discussions/

Why would anyone trade for Am Amendola? Too much luggage.

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Are the Pats dangling Amendola...now that's an interesting rumor...I am a big Edelman fan (he is on the same page as Brady and that is really underrated as far as Patriot WRs go) and would like him back but I think it's hard to justify paying both Amendola and Edelman big money...something's gotta give here...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/01/report-patriots-have-floated-danny-amendolas-name-in-trade-discussions/

Why would anyone trade for Am Amendola? Too much luggage.

If they guy stays healthy he is a heck of a receiver. He really toughed it out this year when he had his groin injury Week 1. Injuries happen and he is unlucky, I'm just hoping he gets one good year to show he can be the slot guy in NE. People will change their tune. I think he is way better than Edelman and we saw what he did.

What is Boyce's outlook with the team, Harrison and even Thompkins. He looked to fade away as the season went on.

Edited by False Start

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I'd love to see it but who would take amendola with his contract and injury history? How bad is the cap hit again if we cut him? I think we just have to keep him and hope he gets healthy. Then cut him when the cap penalty wouldn't be too high. Anyone know when that would be?

If you believe Rotoworld, Pats would save $1.375M if they cut him after June 1st. I really don't think Amendola's contract is that out of line compared to other receivers in the league. He signed for 5 years and $28.6 million. If that money is considered on the high side, I don't think Edelman is worth that much either. He's only been healthy one year in his career. I tend to agree with the philosophy that "NE Slot Receiver" will be productive just based on the system and the QB.

Compared to WRs that actually play football it makes sense. Compared to continually broken WRs, the contract sucks donkey balls.

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Are the Pats dangling Amendola...now that's an interesting rumor...I am a big Edelman fan (he is on the same page as Brady and that is really underrated as far as Patriot WRs go) and would like him back but I think it's hard to justify paying both Amendola and Edelman big money...something's gotta give here...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/01/report-patriots-have-floated-danny-amendolas-name-in-trade-discussions/

Why would anyone trade for Am Amendola? Too much luggage.

If they guy stays healthy he is a heck of a receiver. He really toughed it out this year when he had his groin injury Week 1. Injuries happen and he is unlucky, I'm just hoping he gets one good year to show he can be the slot guy in NE. People will change their tune. I think he is way better than Edelman and we saw what he did.

What is Boyce's outlook with the team, Harrison and even Thompkins. He looked to fade away as the season went on.

He's never been able to stay healthy and I don't know much of that is bad luck or he just has a brittle body (see Austin Collie, but for different injuries). He was fragile in St. Louis and he's still fragile, thus the reason I said why would anyone give anything for this guy. Now if you can get him for some rock candy and a car wash, then ok, but I wouldn't give anything more than a last rd draft pick for him.

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Lets give up the next two years 1st rounders to the Saints and offer Jimmy Graham a monster deal and go win a Super Bowl with the most unstoppable te tandem ever. Most likely the first rounders will be late and we can afford it. lets do it for Brady's last run at the next couple of Super Bowls ......what do say New England !!!!!

Edited by The Fantasy Chef

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the one team who could take Clowney and make him a model citizen with regards to his work ethic,would be the Patriots..

the ONE thing that team desperately needs is a sack-happy, menacing D-lineman..

you have to figure that Clowney's stock has fallen somewhat since the Combine.

so, perhaps he goes in the 5-8 range of the first round.

Pats just need to figure out how to get up there..

I'm sure Bellichick is seeing shades of LT while watching Clowney..same type of player that must be accounted for at the snap of the ball..

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Graham and Revis, did I miss the Pats freeing up 25M in cap space?

No, but there is almost 10 extra million on the cap this year from last year.

Revis alone is 16M against the cap.

I agree would be tough, but where there is a will there is a way.

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Being a Pats fan on the first day of free agency is like being a fifth grader on the first day of school...it's just not fun...

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The Pats do this. Why is anyone surprised? BB would and crew don't believe players - with the exception of maybe Brady - matter. It's the system they value. And BB's giant 'look at how good I am because I don't need players to win ego'. Also they expect the players to buy into playing for the Patriots (because they are so great compared to other teams...) above getting paid. As a fan I tolerate all this behavior but I don't like it because at the end of the day I think it has cost the Pats a Super Bowl or three. It sucks.

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I have this feeling in my gut that Revis goes back to the Jets and we end up with some bargain basement jags (insert name here) when this is all said and done.I refuse to get excited about anything regardless of speculation until the ink is dry. The Pats and Bruins I swear have the same war room.

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I have this feeling in my gut that Revis goes back to the Jets and we end up with some bargain basement jags (insert name here) when this is all said and done.I refuse to get excited about anything regardless of speculation until the ink is dry. The Pats and Bruins I swear have the same war room.

If you're talking about the Ray Bourque Bruins I agree...today's Bruins are fully committed to winning the whole thing...while some fans are upset about not making a slash at the deadline the B's have a much bigger window than the Pats and don't need to be making moves they will regret...right now the Pats are like the B's were with Bourque...they have an elite player (Brady) and a team that is among the best in the league and are a legit contender...that being said they don't seem willing to make those extra moves to get over the hump and you just know they aren't going the distance...there is still a lot of time left in the off-season and more often than not big free agency splashes turn into fool's gold but it would be nice to see a little more urgency to win a title while Brady is still at the top of his game...

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I have this feeling in my gut that Revis goes back to the Jets and we end up with some bargain basement jags (insert name here) when this is all said and done.I refuse to get excited about anything regardless of speculation until the ink is dry. The Pats and Bruins I swear have the same war room.

No way is Revis going back to the Jets, he might not end up in NE but I can't see him going back to NY.

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I have this feeling in my gut that Revis goes back to the Jets and we end up with some bargain basement jags (insert name here) when this is all said and done.I refuse to get excited about anything regardless of speculation until the ink is dry. The Pats and Bruins I swear have the same war room.

No way is Revis going back to the Jets, he might not end up in NE but I can't see him going back to NY.

My guess is Revis is like Ty Law and he's gonna go to whoever pays him the most money...

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