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Indefinite New England Patriots Thread (1 Viewer)

Wow, the Pats upgrade from Talib to Revis, and will get a 3rd round pick in 2015. Unreal. BB playing chess.
I been sleeping on football news, whats the pick for? Compensatory?
Should be a 3rd for Talib signing in Denver, I don't know how they calculate it but I think it is based on the size of the contract.
Compensatory picks are based on net gains and losses and contract value. If the Pats go out and sign someone else for big money, then they would not get anything for Talib. But the player would have to have been a player that left via free agency, not someone that was cut and then signed.
So Revis doesn't count towards the pick?
Correct. The Bucs didn't lose him, they dumped him. So they get no "compensation," as they were the ones that chose not to keep him..
Correct you dont get compensation.... but it does still count against your losses if you signed them. At least according to adamjt's rules.

Revis works against the team that signs him. He does not work in favor of the team that cut him. Thats how the "cut" effects.

1. Lost players that are cut or not tendered as RFAs and ERFAs do not qualify.

2. Lost players that were picked up during the season the year before do not qualify.

3. Signed players that are released before midseason do not qualify.

4. Players earning low minimum salaries do not qualify.

5. Each player signed cancels out one player lost.

6. The round of the pick awarded is primarily determined by the annual value of the contract signed. Signed players cancel out lost players with equal contracts, then lower contracts, before canceling out higher contracts.
#1 covers it. Players that are cut . . . or players that were non-tendered . . . DO NOT QUALIFY.
Isnt that for compensation. Not weight against as a signed player?
There is no qualifier after the words "do not qualify" in number 1. The Pats do not lose a pick by signing Revis.

 
Wow, the Pats upgrade from Talib to Revis, and will get a 3rd round pick in 2015. Unreal. BB playing chess.
I been sleeping on football news, whats the pick for? Compensatory?
Should be a 3rd for Talib signing in Denver, I don't know how they calculate it but I think it is based on the size of the contract.
Compensatory picks are based on net gains and losses and contract value. If the Pats go out and sign someone else for big money, then they would not get anything for Talib. But the player would have to have been a player that left via free agency, not someone that was cut and then signed.
So Revis doesn't count towards the pick?
Correct. The Bucs didn't lose him, they dumped him. So they get no "compensation," as they were the ones that chose not to keep him..
Correct you dont get compensation.... but it does still count against your losses if you signed them. At least according to adamjt's rules.

Revis works against the team that signs him. He does not work in favor of the team that cut him. Thats how the "cut" effects.

1. Lost players that are cut or not tendered as RFAs and ERFAs do not qualify.

2. Lost players that were picked up during the season the year before do not qualify.

3. Signed players that are released before midseason do not qualify.

4. Players earning low minimum salaries do not qualify.

5. Each player signed cancels out one player lost.

6. The round of the pick awarded is primarily determined by the annual value of the contract signed. Signed players cancel out lost players with equal contracts, then lower contracts, before canceling out higher contracts.
#1 covers it. Players that are cut . . . or players that were non-tendered . . . DO NOT QUALIFY.
Isnt that for compensation. Not weight against as a signed player?
I am almost certain that a player has to complete his contract to be considered for compensatory calculations and players that were cut do not factor in on either team's calculations. Even if a street free agent is signed, I do not believe that goes into the players and salary added column, as that player was not in the pool of players that the NFL looks at as lost players from other teams.

 
#1 covers it. Players that are cut . . . or players that were non-tendered . . . DO NOT QUALIFY.
what are you guys even arguing about?

tampa gets no comp for revis, just as you already posted.

what's that got to do with new england?
He is asking if by signing Revis, does NE have to count his salary in the formula for calculating net gains and losses for compensatory picks. I am pretty sure his salary would not count, as he was not in the compensatory player pool to begin with.

 
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Heard they can franchise him next year...
I'm speculating but I don't see Revis signing this deal if there is any potential of getting franchised next year...I bet there is an agreement in-place with regard to this...
Albert Breer jus confirmed by tweet - nothing in the deal prevents Pats from franchising him next year. Unbelievable coup for the Pats.https://twitter.com/albertbreer/status/443933266056589312
That's fine, but it also doesn't mean it wouldn't turn into a ####show if they did franchise him.

 
Wow, the Pats upgrade from Talib to Revis, and will get a 3rd round pick in 2015. Unreal. BB playing chess.
I been sleeping on football news, whats the pick for? Compensatory?
Should be a 3rd for Talib signing in Denver, I don't know how they calculate it but I think it is based on the size of the contract.
Dont they weigh that against any free agents you sign?
Yes.

Revis! :thumbup: I had no idea he's get duped into signing a 1 year contract.

 
Heard they can franchise him next year...
I'm speculating but I don't see Revis signing this deal if there is any potential of getting franchised next year...I bet there is an agreement in-place with regard to this...
Albert Breer jus confirmed by tweet - nothing in the deal prevents Pats from franchising him next year. Unbelievable coup for the Pats.https://twitter.com/albertbreer/status/443933266056589312
That's fine, but it also doesn't mean it wouldn't turn into a ####show if they did franchise him.
maybe but if hes willing to play one for 12 im not sure i can see him leaving 14.4 on the table

 
Excellent, really wish it was for 2 but we'll see. A couple more moves and we're in like Flynn. Hopefully there will be enough for Edelman and the cowboy Allen. Maybe another WR. Championship!

 
Sounds like they are around 5 million under the cap right now and could pretty easily get up to 11-12 with some cuts/restructures.

 
Heard they can franchise him next year...
I'm speculating but I don't see Revis signing this deal if there is any potential of getting franchised next year...I bet there is an agreement in-place with regard to this...
Albert Breer jus confirmed by tweet - nothing in the deal prevents Pats from franchising him next year. Unbelievable coup for the Pats.https://twitter.com/albertbreer/status/443933266056589312
Thanks for the update...that's real interesting...gives the Pats some options here...

 
While were signing the best of the best. What are the chances the Pats make an offer on Graham and give up on signing a FA WR?

If they restructure a few deals and lose Edelman, can they make a substantial offer (bigger than Gronks current deal)?

No delusion that the Saints won't just match the offer, but its worth a shot imo.

 
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While were signing the best of the best. What are the chances the Pats make an offer on Graham and give up on signing a FA WR?

If they restructure a few deals and lose Edelman, can they make a substantial offer (bigger than Gronks current deal)?

No delusion that the Saints won't just match the offer, but its worth a shot imo.
I think there is zero chance...you would have to give up two #1's and give him a huge long-term contract...don't see that happening...just too many moving parts to do this and this would go waaaay out of the norm for them...

 
Steve Smiff? I realize he's not his old self, but I could see him signing for less late in his career to play with brady and go after a ring...

 
Just read this in PFF:

"The other thing to keep in mind is the Ravens general manager Ozzie Newsome is notorious for picking up veterans who have been cut, partly because it has no impact on the awarding of compensatory draft picks."

If they are right, as they usually are, that should put an end to the compensatory pick debate on the top of the page I believe.

 
Uh oh...


NFL.com's Ian Rapoport reports Patriots DT Vince Wilfork has requested his release.
Due $7.5 million, the Pats had approached Wilfork about restructuring his contract. He clearly didn't like what they were selling, and would rather take his wares to the open market. According to ESPN's Adam Schefter, Wilfork isn't open to anysort of restructuring. Cutting Wilfork would clear $8 million in cap space, but leave behind $3.6 million in dead money. Wilfork appeared in just four games last season before tearing his Achilles' tendon. Going on 33, Wilfork has spent his entire 10-year career with the Patriots.
Source: Ian Rapoport on Twitter
Mar 13 - 2:24 PM

 
Well, Bill is up to something but this one he could mess up big. I will wait to see what happens but what is his plan to fill the middle if he leaves. The fact that a star player feels this disrespected that he wants out of a great team says a lot.

Why is this such a dirty industry, its just football. I know the answer to that just bothers me how much teams (owners & GMs) disrespect players and coaches.

Saints with Sproles and Graham

Patriots with Welker and Wilfork

Panthers with Smith

Raiders and this BS of a failed physical

Dolphins with being mad at Martin more than Incognito

San Fran with Harbaugh

 
Wilfork was playing poorly before his injury and a 300+ pound 32 year old guy coming off of an Achilles tear is a major question mark, particularly for his huge cap hit. It would be tough to cut him but it's probably the right move at this point. Pats would still have about $18 million in cap space to make some moves.

 
I honestly think that the Pats should look at signing Nicks, doesn't seem like he's gonna get the big guaranteed contract that he thought he would. Let him prove himself for a season with Brady throwing him the ball and get his big money next year. 7

Way more upside than signing a guy like Sanders.

 
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Thanks for the memories Vince. You were a great one. Go get paid!
Here's the thing. The market for 30 something, rehabbing DLmen past their prime is about $4 million a year. No one is going to give him big money. Ask Seymour, Osi, Abraham, etc. If he gets cut, he will probably get paid LESS than what the Pats would give him. He's just not worth $7.5 million in real money and $11.8 million for a cap number. He was great in the day and might be above average now, but paying him as one of the top interior lineman at this point wouldn't make much sense.

 
I tend to agree, IF they spend they spend the money. I bet Wilfork is around 370 right about now. It could be kind of a blessing! But stopping the run would still be an issue.

 
You guys are funny. Losing wilfork would suck. It sucked last year and it would suck now. Just refuse to cut him but allow him to negotiate a trade with other teams, and if someone wants to pay him more than he's getting now, do it up. If not, let him see his real market value and hopefully he will come back around. Just don't escalate the situation and certainly don't release him immediately.

 
They should keep him but I am worried about the Achilles. Wilfork doesn't have the leverage in this situation.

 
You guys are funny. Losing wilfork would suck. It sucked last year and it would suck now. Just refuse to cut him but allow him to negotiate a trade with other teams, and if someone wants to pay him more than he's getting now, do it up. If not, let him see his real market value and hopefully he will come back around. Just don't escalate the situation and certainly don't release him immediately.
No one is saying he isn't an asset, but at this point his cap hit would be three times his actual value for his position. And you are assuming that he comes back as the old Wilfork that was one of the best DLmen in the league. If he is overweight, lost a step, and can't recover fully from his injury he could be a shell of the old Vince.

No team with half a brain would want to give him MORE money. And while we are on it, I don't quite get why he would refuse to renegotiate. He could end up making just as much money and get an extension. They could do something as simple as converting this year's salary to a signing bonus, add 2-3 more years to his contract, and he wouldn't lose a dime. So he could slash his cap hit in half and get paid the same amount of money. But yet he won't budge and wants out instead.

 
Now I'm seeing the Revis deal is in reality a two year deal with a cap hit of 25 mil :confused: in 2015. There is no possibility of franchising him in 2015 facing that kind of cap hit, none. The Pats structured the deal that way to ease the cap space for 2014. I can't help but think they will try and sign to an extension at some point. If they don't get that done he is basically unrestricted going into 2015 and most likely gone.

I think they are just waiting for the cap to increase enough to lock him up but to me they have no leverage with him after 2014. Better hope he really likes it here and we can pay him as much as any other team will which to me is wishful thinking. Sadly I have my doubts about him being here more than one year. Someone please tell me we do have a shot at a long term deal considering the terms.

 
He might not be at full speed, but the team is better with him than without him. If he can still occupy double teams, and revis can take out the opponents best receiver, this defense is going to be legit. Why would he take a paycut? He's been told for years that the patriots won't break the bank for elite players, and now the patriots add the most money centric player in the nfl for more money than he's going to get. I understand why he thinks he has leverage. Who is there in free agency or the draft who can replace even a hobbled wilfork?

 
He might not be at full speed, but the team is better with him than without him. If he can still occupy double teams, and revis can take out the opponents best receiver, this defense is going to be legit. Why would he take a paycut? He's been told for years that the patriots won't break the bank for elite players, and now the patriots add the most money centric player in the nfl for more money than he's going to get. I understand why he thinks he has leverage. Who is there in free agency or the draft who can replace even a hobbled wilfork?
I agree if they simply wanted him to go from $7.5M to $3M with no extension, that would be insulting. But from what I have heard, they are not asking him to take a straight pay cut. It sounds like they are asking him to restructure and sign an extension. For example, if they converted his 2014 salary ($7.5M) into a signing bonus, he would get the same actual dollars paid out this year. Then extend him for whatever amount of years to spread out the cap hit. So if they want him to play two years, give him a 3 or 4 year extension and eat the cap hit downstream. So his on the books salary and cap hit this year might drop off a ton, but the money going in his pocket likely wouldn't change.

 
He might not be at full speed, but the team is better with him than without him. If he can still occupy double teams, and revis can take out the opponents best receiver, this defense is going to be legit. Why would he take a paycut? He's been told for years that the patriots won't break the bank for elite players, and now the patriots add the most money centric player in the nfl for more money than he's going to get. I understand why he thinks he has leverage. Who is there in free agency or the draft who can replace even a hobbled wilfork?
I agree if they simply wanted him to go from $7.5M to $3M with no extension, that would be insulting. But from what I have heard, they are not asking him to take a straight pay cut. It sounds like they are asking him to restructure and sign an extension. For example, if they converted his 2014 salary ($7.5M) into a signing bonus, he would get the same actual dollars paid out this year. Then extend him for whatever amount of years to spread out the cap hit. So if they want him to play two years, give him a 3 or 4 year extension and eat the cap hit downstream. So his on the books salary and cap hit this year might drop off a ton, but the money going in his pocket likely wouldn't change.
Are you hearing any actual numbers? The devil's in the details, but it seems odd to request his release if they were offering to give him the same or more money.

 
So whats the deal with Browner? I know nothing about him, but reading over his career stuff he seems like a mediocre talent. Token large corner?

 
So whats the deal with Browner? I know nothing about him, but reading over his career stuff he seems like a mediocre talent. Token large corner?
My guess is the Pats are looking at him as more of a SS, which they are in the market for (if he'd be willing to convert). Browner is a physical, big (as you stated) corner that can deliver hard hits. We've missed that at safety, essentially since Harrison - I think they envisioned Chung in that role at one point. Even though he has a suspension for the first four game (IIRC), I'd sign him if he was willing to convert and for the right money.

 
I almost always side with the FO, this is a business and afaic the fo trys to do what is best for the team in the short term and long term. The message I have for players who want to chase the dollars is don't let the door hit ya on the way out (Law, Samuel, Branch, Welker etc).

Wilfork is a little bit of a tuff one for me. Maybe I am dreaming, but I thought the team would extend him a couple\few more years, give him 10mil or so guaranteed and everyone would be happy. Given Wilforks reaction I am really curious to know what the numbers being offered are.

Wilfork had to sign a 6 year rookie contract, so I understand why he feels so strongly they should honor the last year of this contract. He feels he got screwed a little bit and I tend to agree, that's why I thought the team would give him the money he is owed this year and a little more. If that is what is being offered he should take it and be happy.

From the teams pov, you have a guy that looked huge (fat) last year who wasn't playing all that well even before he got hurt. Now that guy is coming off major surgery and he likely may not be able to contribute all that much now and in the next couple of years.

On the other hand, if we are trying to make a strong push to the sb this year, he is a team leader and we would unquestionably be better this year with him. I hope they can work it out, but if they can't then ne has a really tuff choice to make. I don't think they can do much else in fa if wilfork wont re-negotiate so push may come to shove.

 
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First off, no one knows if a huge 32 year old Wilfork coming off a torn Achilles can be the player he was. I tend to think he would be good but not in his prime. That's a huge cap hit if they just honored the contract, probably not going to happen in today's NFL.

My question is if the Pats cut him, do they use that money to sign Edelman, possibly another WR, a pass rusher, look at safeties, center (Raji?) etc... are they truly "all in" with Brady's final 2-4 years SUPER BOWL OR BUST run- or is is the Revis signing an anomaly, back to the nickel and dime bs.

It is a weird situation, because as good as Edelman is there is no doubt a situational/Brady effect. Who else did Brady have to throw to? As good as Wilfork is they won 12 games last year (although they dropped off the map against the run). Revis for one year (hopefully he loves it here and restructures down the road) is a good start but who the hell is Brady going to throw to? The rookies? Gronk? Not reliable, not top shelf. Look at who PManning, Brees, Rodgers.. throw to? I mean look at who Stafford throws to? They just added Tate, and rumors are they might trade up for Sammy Watkins. Look at what Atlanta did to get Julio Jones to play next to Roddy White. The Pats passed on Dez Bryant, Kendall Wright and a myriad of others, they trade down year after year, or pick some no name in the 3rd rd. that was projected for the 6th. As a Pats fan, imo, what they have done is squandered brady's last years through arrogance and a business model approach. The time to sell out and go all in is well, last year, but this year would do. In all honesty it might be too late, the adapting that needed to be done to go from a TE oriented offense to NO viable TE's has not really happened or happened half-heartedly with some more dubious mid rounds rookie WR picks. Us fantasy players know the slow development of WR's, the the Bryant/Julio Jones of the world are the exceptions. So these are choices made as Brady turns 36? Total dropping of the ball, imo. It's frustrating. The reality is the defense hasn't been great in many years, pretty good at times, but not the force of the early 2000's. So give Brady weapons! Someone over 6' and under 4.40! Wouldn't that be a good idea? Yeah- we're spoiled in a way, sure, 12-4 is nothing to scoff at but the bar has been raised, 12-4 is not good enough for any team, Super Bowl or bust, for the Browns as for the Seahawks, Pats, whoever.

 
First off, no one knows if a huge 32 year old Wilfork coming off a torn Achilles can be the player he was. I tend to think he would be good but not in his prime. That's a huge cap hit if they just honored the contract, probably not going to happen in today's NFL.

My question is if the Pats cut him, do they use that money to sign Edelman, possibly another WR, a pass rusher, look at safeties, center (Raji?) etc... are they truly "all in" with Brady's final 2-4 years SUPER BOWL OR BUST run- or is is the Revis signing an anomaly, back to the nickel and dime bs.

It is a weird situation, because as good as Edelman is there is no doubt a situational/Brady effect. Who else did Brady have to throw to? As good as Wilfork is they won 12 games last year (although they dropped off the map against the run). Revis for one year (hopefully he loves it here and restructures down the road) is a good start but who the hell is Brady going to throw to? The rookies? Gronk? Not reliable, not top shelf. Look at who PManning, Brees, Rodgers.. throw to? I mean look at who Stafford throws to? They just added Tate, and rumors are they might trade up for Sammy Watkins. Look at what Atlanta did to get Julio Jones to play next to Roddy White. The Pats passed on Dez Bryant, Kendall Wright and a myriad of others, they trade down year after year, or pick some no name in the 3rd rd. that was projected for the 6th. As a Pats fan, imo, what they have done is squandered brady's last years through arrogance and a business model approach. The time to sell out and go all in is well, last year, but this year would do. In all honesty it might be too late, the adapting that needed to be done to go from a TE oriented offense to NO viable TE's has not really happened or happened half-heartedly with some more dubious mid rounds rookie WR picks. Us fantasy players know the slow development of WR's, the the Bryant/Julio Jones of the world are the exceptions. So these are choices made as Brady turns 36? Total dropping of the ball, imo. It's frustrating. The reality is the defense hasn't been great in many years, pretty good at times, but not the force of the early 2000's. So give Brady weapons! Someone over 6' and under 4.40! Wouldn't that be a good idea? Yeah- we're spoiled in a way, sure, 12-4 is nothing to scoff at but the bar has been raised, 12-4 is not good enough for any team, Super Bowl or bust, for the Browns as for the Seahawks, Pats, whoever.
Great post dude. We could have Cordarrelle Patterson too. Imagine what he could be doing in this offense. It's past time to cash in on how conservative we've run the team and take some chances.

 
Pats sign Browner finally.

Patriots signed CB Brandon Browner to a three-year, $17 million deal.
Browner also received interest from the Redskins, Saints, and Jets, before signing with the Patriots. It's a slightly longer contract than expected, as New England initially only offered a two-year deal. The $5.6 million annually places him among the top-seven cornerbacks in the league in terms of salary. Browner is suspended for the first four games of 2014, but is a lock to start opposite Darrelle Revis when reinstated.

Roto
Career Highlights, for those like myself who haven't seen much of him. (@7:15 he blows up three dudes on the same play)

 
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Run It Up said:
Pats sign Browner finally.

Patriots signed CB Brandon Browner to a three-year, $17 million deal.
Browner also received interest from the Redskins, Saints, and Jets, before signing with the Patriots. It's a slightly longer contract than expected, as New England initially only offered a two-year deal. The $5.6 million annually places him among the top-seven cornerbacks in the league in terms of salary. Browner is suspended for the first four games of 2014, but is a lock to start opposite Darrelle Revis when reinstated.Roto
Career Highlights, for those like myself who haven't seen much of him. (@7:15 he blows up three dudes on the same play)
championship

 
What's awesome about the Browner move is that the Pats can cover up his deficiencies on deep balls with safety help over the top with Revis shutting down the other half of the field. Leaves BB lots of room to do what he does best: lay the lumber.

This is shaping up to be a physical, shutdown defensive backfield.

 
Pats should be able to make several more moves once they cut that bloated DL and send him and his greedy fat ### wife Bianca out of town.

I will take BJ Raja, Edleman, Guion, Bailey and Avant over retaining Vince.

 
Pats should be able to make several more moves once they cut that bloated DL and send him and his greedy fat ### wife Bianca out of town.

I will take BJ Raja, Edleman, Guion, Bailey and Avant over retaining Vince.
What's awesome about the Browner move is that the Pats can cover up his deficiencies on deep balls with safety help over the top with Revis shutting down the other half of the field. Leaves BB lots of room to do what he does best: lay the lumber.

This is shaping up to be a physical, shutdown defensive backfield.
I liked the Revis signing but I don't love this signing as much. It makes me think the Patriots are just trying to copy the Seahawks blue print to beat the Broncos. It also reminds of back in 07 when the Giants beat the Patriots in the super bowl and for the next 5 years it seemed like every pass rusher got a huge amount of money as a free agent from teams that were trying to copy the Giants concept. I guess my point is it usually doesn't work to copy another team. It works best when you follow your own system and get players that fit that system. Then again I am just a fan.

 

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