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Indefinite New England Patriots Thread (5 Viewers)

hardcoredx said:
I don't understand the Denver love. They have clearly regressed and are close to a lottery team. The defense will decline slightly this year and the offense is a joke with 2 aging WR's. I expect NE to bend over Denver and it's not going to be close.

Pittsburgh and maybe Oakland are going to be the tough games. I will throw in a divisional loss to the Bills or Dolphins. 8-0 @home and 6-2 on the road.
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Very easy to understand as a Pats fan...playing at Denver has always been a House of Horrors for the Pats...right now Denver is the only team Brady has a losing record against (7-9) and is 1-3 in the playoffs...much of that is unlike most of the NFL Shanny and Kubiak know how and were not scared to Coach against BB unlike someone like Tomlin...the good news is they have a rookie HC so you would think BB has a huge advantage now but any Pats fan who takes a game at Denver for granted is thumbing their nose at history...

 
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Anarchy99 said:
Ninkovich said to be retiring. 
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(RotoWire) Ninkovich is expected to announce his retirement Sunday, ESPN.com's Mike Reiss reports.

Analysis: The 33-year-old defensive end/outside linebacker was selected by the Saints in the fifth round of the 2006 draft, but he bounced around the league until catching on with the Patriots as a part-time player in 2009. He then played 16 games each year from 2010 to 2015, averaging 66.5 tackles and 6.8 sacks per season while winning two Super Bowls along the way. Ninkovich dropped off to 32 tackles and four sacks in 12 games last year, after serving a four-game suspension PED suspension to start the season. His retirement should free up more snaps for offseason acquisitions Kony Ealy and Lawrence Guy, though neither projects as a direct replacement.

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I would think this is a "forced" retirement as BB let him know he's about to be cut.

So try and land a spot on another team or call it a career. He chose the later.

 
Sad to see Ninkovich go as he became one of my personal favorites on the team after the Bruchi/Vrabel crew left. Also seemed to epitomize the lunch pail, do everything LB for New England and seemed fairly unheralded nationally for what he really contributed compared to notable teammates (ala Mayo, Hightower, or Jamie Collins).

 
Bossman said:
(RotoWire) Ninkovich is expected to announce his retirement Sunday, ESPN.com's Mike Reiss reports.

Analysis: The 33-year-old defensive end/outside linebacker was selected by the Saints in the fifth round of the 2006 draft, but he bounced around the league until catching on with the Patriots as a part-time player in 2009. He then played 16 games each year from 2010 to 2015, averaging 66.5 tackles and 6.8 sacks per season while winning two Super Bowls along the way. Ninkovich dropped off to 32 tackles and four sacks in 12 games last year, after serving a four-game suspension PED suspension to start the season. His retirement should free up more snaps for offseason acquisitions Kony Ealy and Lawrence Guy, though neither projects as a direct replacement.

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I would think this is a "forced" retirement as BB let him know he's about to be cut.

So try and land a spot on another team or call it a career. He chose the later.
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What makes you think he was going to get cut?

 
captain_amazing said:
What makes you think he was going to get cut?
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Sports Radio has been speculating that either that or him hanging-up was a strong possibility...tough player not to love...guy came out of nowhere and turned into an excellent player who you could always count on...his reliability is going to be very much missed...he has a ton of mileage on him so it's probably time for him to move on...

 
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captain_amazing said:
What makes you think he was going to get cut?
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If Nink wanted to retire, why not retire in the offseason, why come to OTA's and then training camp?

BB is cold hearted, no loyalty to any player (maybe not even Brady with the way he's handling JG).

D.Rivers looming as well as younger talented free agents (Ealy) .

 
Boston said:
Sports Radio has been speculating that either that or him hanging-up was a strong possibility...tough player not to love...guy came out of nowhere and turned into an excellent player who you could always count on...his reliability is going to be very much missed...he has a ton of mileage on him so it's probably time to move on...
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I definitely don't think it's a bad time for him to retire, but I just don't understand why the he would be forced to retire.  It's not like his production dropped off a cliff or anything (assuming without looking at stats).  He's rock solid reliable, and even putting in rotationally as he got older would be valuable as a long-time Pat and vet.

Since he was at camp in the spring, I think this is more him realizing, with the deadline of camp being the catalyst, that he doesn't want to go through another season and is simply ready to hang it up.  I think if he decided to stay, he'd undoubtedly be on the team and playing.

 
Bossman said:
If Nink wanted to retire, why not retire in the offseason, why come to OTA's and then training camp?

BB is cold hearted, no loyalty to any player (maybe not even Brady with the way he's handling JG).

D.Rivers looming as well as younger talented free agents (Ealy) .
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If BB was going to cut him, why wouldn't he have done so before minicamp and bring in another younder body to develop?  BB knows Ninko as a player and would have likely known if there was a spot on the team for him prior to minicamp.  It would make little sense to drag him through that and then force him before camp to retire.  It makes more sense that Ninko realized that, oh crap, camps here, I either commit for the year and go through grueling camp or I retire.  He may have gone through minicamp because he wasn't quite sure if he wanted to retire on not and wanted to take the summer to think about it, since there's no real comittment made to the team by going brought minicamp and it's not very grueling on him.  But training camp is different, and probably forced him to make a decision.  Just my opinion of course.

 
captain_amazing said:
I definitely don't think it's a bad time for him to retire, but I just don't understand why the he would be forced to retire.  It's not like his production dropped off a cliff or anything (assuming without looking at stats).  He's rock solid reliable, and even putting in rotationally as he got older would be valuable as a long-time Pat and vet.

Since he was at camp in the spring, I think this is more him realizing, with the deadline of camp being the catalyst, that he doesn't want to go through another season and is simply ready to hang it up.  I think if he decided to stay, he'd undoubtedly be on the team and playing.
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Not to sound like a jerk but how could you not be surprised if this were the case (and I am not saying he was forced because I have no clue)...BB's history is almost always letting a guy go a year early rather then a year late...it is how he operates...also, the Pats were not shy about adding players to his position this offseason...one last thing...not to put a cloud over Ninkovich but he got popped for PEDs last year so maybe he's just not the player he was anymore at age 33 with some real hard miles on him...

 
captain_amazing said:
If BB was going to cut him, why wouldn't he have done so before minicamp and bring in another younder body to develop?  BB knows Ninko as a player and would have likely known if there was a spot on the team for him prior to minicamp.  It would make little sense to drag him through that and then force him before camp to retire.  It makes more sense that Ninko realized that, oh crap, camps here, I either commit for the year and go through grueling camp or I retire.  He may have gone through minicamp because he wasn't quite sure if he wanted to retire on not and wanted to take the summer to think about it, since there's no real comittment made to the team by going brought minicamp and it's not very grueling on him.  But training camp is different, and probably forced him to make a decision.  Just my opinion of course.
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Nope.

BB would never cut someone without first seeing what he has in camp. He can bring in anyone he wants at this point in the season. Doesn't need to cut a vet to make room for a undrafted rookie.

The only reason BB would cut him this early would be to give him a better chance to catch on with another team if that was the direction he chose.

Guess BB is not completely cold hearted then. But lets not sugar coat the situation to try and make BB seem like he's not such a cyborg.

 
My kids went to training camp yesterday. My son was not that impressed with Gronk, as he was expecting this mountain of a man. Gronk is only a couple inches taller than my son is, so that would help explain it. My son also said people need to stop with the Cooks is the second coming of Randy Moss talk. He said he was a little pipsqueak and Moss is 6 inches and 30-40 heavier. His opinion was decent player but over hyped. He mentioned Gillisee looked really good. And "some new guy looked good" . . . which I am pretty sure was UDFA Austin Carr.

The Pats also did something that I hadn't heard done before. On man to man coverage drills, they had the defenders all wearing something between mittens and boxing gloves, where basically their hands were covered so all they could do was defend without being able to grab. Makes sense if they are trying to cut down on defensive holding on receivers (which can often bail opposing offenses out on third an long).

 
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Boston said:
Not to sound like a jerk but how could you not be surprised if this were the case (and I am not saying he was forced because I have no clue)...BB's history is almost always letting a guy go a year early rather then a year late...it is how he operates...also, the Pats were not shy about adding players to his position this offseason...one last thing...not to put a cloud over Ninkovich but he got popped for PEDs last year so maybe he's just not the player he was anymore at age 33 with some real hard miles on him...
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Agree to disagree.  I don't think Ninko was in anyway forced to retire.

 
Bossman said:
Nope.

BB would never cut someone without first seeing what he has in camp. He can bring in anyone he wants at this point in the season. Doesn't need to cut a vet to make room for a undrafted rookie.

The only reason BB would cut him this early would be to give him a better chance to catch on with another team if that was the direction he chose.

Guess BB is not completely cold hearted then. But lets not sugar coat the situation to try and make BB seem like he's not such a cyborg.
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I don't think he needed to see what he had in Ninko.  He already knew from all of Ninkos play last year.  But, again, agree to disagree (and not like it matters, I suppose)

 
Boston said:
I don't think he was forced to retire but his choice may have been retire or play for another team...
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From a blend of discussions I have heard, his family has wanted him to retire for awhile. If BB really wanted him gone, he would have had Nink in for training camp, evaluate him, and then decide what to do with him for cut down day (all cuts are now just before the season starts). It just sounds like he didn't want to play anymore and had nothing to do with the team. 

 
Anarchy99 said:
From a blend of discussions I have heard, his family has wanted him to retire for awhile. If BB really wanted him gone, he would have had Nink in for training camp, evaluate him, and then decide what to do with him for cut down day (all cuts are now just before the season starts). It just sounds like he didn't want to play anymore and had nothing to do with the team. 
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Would not be surprised by this but the speculation I heard was he was prime suspect #1 if there was to be a surprise cut...that being said let's remember that two of the Pats four draft picks and one of their trades involved players who play his position...since Flowers is young and one of their better defenders I feel comfortable saying they are not worried about him...regardless of what happened here his days were coming to an end and the Pats were preparing for it...I don't think they were caught off guard by this...

 
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He is a big loss because of his versatility and reliability...like Willie McGinest he can put the hand down or play up which will always make things more difficult for the offense...

 
How you NE homers feeing about Cooks fantasy prospects?  Will he get lost in the shuffle where Brady spreads around the wealth or do you think Brady will favor his new shiny toy?

 
Ace08 said:
How you NE homers feeing about Cooks fantasy prospects?  Will he get lost in the shuffle where Brady spreads around the wealth or do you think Brady will favor his new shiny toy?
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My guess? .... somewhat lost in the shuffle. 

Pats are content to win games with long methodical drives, chewing up clock, and keeping the other teams offense off the field.

Cooks will play the deep decoy to free up the underneath stuff. ... and soooo many mouths to feed... Gronk, Edelman, Hogan, Mitchell.

Cooks will get some numbers but I'm not expecting anything close to what Randy Moss did his first year with Brady.

 
Ace08 said:
How you NE homers feeing about Cooks fantasy prospects?  Will he get lost in the shuffle where Brady spreads around the wealth or do you think Brady will favor his new shiny toy?
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Cooks has his own thread. Many opinions already posted in there. 

 
Currently watching Roma v. Juventus soccer at Gillette. Trying to figure out where they can hang the 5th banner. There really isn't a good spot. I know, eliteteamissues. 

 
Anarchy99 said:
Currently watching Roma v. Juventus soccer at Gillette. Trying to figure out where they can hang the 5th banner. There really isn't a good spot. I know, eliteteamissues. 
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I heard on PFW in Progress that they will be putting up all five in a way that leaves a rather obvious spot for a sixth.  Seems very unlike them and maybe that's not how they'll do it, but I thought it was interesting.

 
Ace08 said:
How you NE homers feeing about Cooks fantasy prospects?  Will he get lost in the shuffle where Brady spreads around the wealth or do you think Brady will favor his new shiny toy?
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If you'll scroll back through the thread you'll see it's somewhat of a polarizing question...there are those of us who think he'll duplicate or better his success in NO here, and those of us who think it will be 30% below that....I'm in the latter group, but will be pleased to be wrong.

 
Anarchy99 said:
http://www.weei.com/blogs/ryan-hannable/robert-kraft-patriots-had-high-class-problem-gillette-stadium-because-too-many
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I like the fact that Kraft pointed out about Brady taking less money (a discount) for the sake of the team.

... because Brady values winning more than the extra money.

While Derek Carr signs a massive contract ... and Kirk Cousins is holding out for top dollar.

Luck got paid ... Flacco, Brees, Rivers .... right down the list. Soon after they get the fat contract, the team goes into the crapper.

Brady comes in at #14 on the $ per year QB list ... right behind Matt Ryan. Surprise, both NE and ATL are pretty good.

https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/

You would think these other QB's and GM's would learn from Brady and the Pats.

More on the QB's I suppose but if a GM offers another $4m a year is the QB supposed to turn it down?

 
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Bossman said:
I like the fact that Kraft pointed out about Brady taking less money (a discount) for the sake of the team.

... because Brady values winning more than the extra money.

While Derek Carr signs a massive contract ... and Kirk Cousins is holding out for top dollar.

Luck got paid ... Flacco, Brees, Rivers .... right down the list. Soon after they get the fat contract, the team goes into the crapper.

Brady comes in at #14 on the $ per year QB list ... right behind Matt Ryan. Surprise, both NE and ATL are pretty good.

https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/

You would think these other QB's and GM's would learn from Brady and the Pats.

More on the QB's I suppose but if a GM offers another $4m a year is the QB supposed to turn it down?
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I think it's great Brady has taken below market deals and presented a team-first attitude. That being said, how many other QB's have wives that have a net worth of $400 million? 

 
Anarchy99 said:
I think it's great Brady has taken below market deals and presented a team-first attitude. That being said, how many other QB's have wives that have a net worth of $400 million? 
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So Giselle is the reason Brady can take a discount ... and no other QB has that luxury.

So you're saying that if Brady married his high school sweetheart ... regular "girl next door" ... he would not have taken a discount?

Because as it stands now, his discounted salary averaging $15m a year, over a 15 year career, is only $225m. How could he expect to support his family on that? 

Sheesh ... good thing he has Giselle.   :rolleyes:

 
Brady has made $196 million over his career, which is far from chump change. 

Brady got married in 2009. Before then, I don't thInk he played for much less than he was worth. 

At the time he got married, he had $60 million in career earnings. 

We can agree to disagree if having a wife making $40 million a year factored into him playing for below market over the latter half of his career. 

 
Bossman said:
I like the fact that Kraft pointed out about Brady taking less money (a discount) for the sake of the team.

... because Brady values winning more than the extra money.

While Derek Carr signs a massive contract ... and Kirk Cousins is holding out for top dollar.

Luck got paid ... Flacco, Brees, Rivers .... right down the list. Soon after they get the fat contract, the team goes into the crapper.

Brady comes in at #14 on the $ per year QB list ... right behind Matt Ryan. Surprise, both NE and ATL are pretty good.

https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/

You would think these other QB's and GM's would learn from Brady and the Pats.

More on the QB's I suppose but if a GM offers another $4m a year is the QB supposed to turn it down?
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Derek Carr's contract is no massive, HTH

 
Bossman said:
Not sure how to read this. What is HTH?

Did you mean to write SO massive? 

If you click the link to the QB salaries you would see that his $125m total and $25m a year avg is #1.

What would you consider massive if not the highest paid QB in the league?

https://overthecap.com/position/quarterback/
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From the link below, please indicate the years where Derek Carr received more than 25m in order to make up for the years he does not.

Spotrac

ETA: Happy To Help

 
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Anarchy99 said:
Brady has made $196 million over his career, which is far from chump change. 

Brady got married in 2009. Before then, I don't thInk he played for much less than he was worth. 

At the time he got married, he had $60 million in career earnings. 

We can agree to disagree if having a wife making $40 million a year factored into him playing for below market over the latter half of his career. 
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The far right column shows total earnings for that season.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-england-patriots/tom-brady-4619/cash-earnings/

Seems like the year after he got married is when his salary spiked somewhat: (actually doubled). 

Likely just the timing of his contract. Up until the year he was married I'd say he was well below what he could have been making (see Peyton Manning)

I'm not saying having Giselles money didn't make it easier ... it obviously does.

But I hate to have Giselle be the reason Brady plays for less ... when everything Brady says and does leads us to believe winning comes first for him.

 
msommer said:
From the link below, please indicate the years where Derek Carr received more than 25m in order to make up for the years he does not.

Spotrac

ETA: Happy To Help
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True that doesn't show $25m.

So the "Over The Cap" link is wrong saying he will avg $25m a year. I didn't cook it, I'm just the messenger.

How about these guys.... http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/heat-index/2016/06/10/nfls-highest-paid-quarterbacks-2016-rankings/85668926/

Or we can stick with your Sportrac ... http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/quarterback/ 

 
Bossman said:
True that doesn't show $25m.

So the "Over The Cap" link is wrong saying he will avg $25m a year. I didn't cook it, I'm just the messenger.

How about these guys.... http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/heat-index/2016/06/10/nfls-highest-paid-quarterbacks-2016-rankings/85668926/

Or we can stick with your Sportrac ... http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/quarterback/ 
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It is a five year extention, that gives him a raise in year zero. Total new money in the six years is 125m. Total money over the six years is 126m. That, shoddy journalism aside, in no way equates to 25m a year over the course of the contract. 

 
Brady annual rankings in salary cap charges for QB's from Over the Cap

2005 - 4
2006 - 1
2007 - 8
2008 - 2
2009 - 3
2010 - 3
2011 - 8
2012 - 16
2013 - 5
2014 - 11
2015 - 14
2016 - 18
2017 - 20

Clearly Brady started playing for a lot less later in his career. If people want to say that's because he "wanted to win," did he not care about winning earlier in his career? I am not suggesting he is not helping the Patriots out a ton by playing for way less, but for whatever reason, he has been inclined to play at a  pretty deep discount over the past 5 or 6 years.

 
Anarchy99 said:
Brady has made $196 million over his career, which is far from chump change. 

Brady got married in 2009. Before then, I don't thInk he played for much less than he was worth. 

At the time he got married, he had $60 million in career earnings. 

We can agree to disagree if having a wife making $40 million a year factored into him playing for below market over the latter half of his career. 
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Agree with you more often than not, but respectfully not here.

196 mil is hardly chump change and not sure if anyone said otherwise, instead I think what people have said (or at least meant) and what is obvious to many is that Brady has never looked to grab every nickel on the table (like many other players). Does having a rich wife help? Sure, but can you honestly argue with those who point out (accurately) that Brady has never (not in 2001, not in 2017) been about the money.

Pre 2009? We can agree to disagree with you not believing he played for less before 2009 than he could have but the fact is he did. You don't have to take my word for it, here is an excerpt from a GQ article written in 2005.  Entrepreneurial, hardworking, humble off the eld and condent on it, he's acutely, safely all-American—the kind of guy who will accept a contract for well below market value ($60 million over six years, versus roughly $14 million a year for the Colts' Peyton Manning and $13 million for the Falcons' Michael Vick) so that his team will have enough left under the cap to adequately ll other positions. "Is it going to make me feel any better to make an extra million, which, after tas, is about $500,000?" Brady said in May, after agreeing to his new deal. "That million might be more important to the team."  http://www.gq.com/story/tom-brady-patriots Im fairly certain there are other articles that would have said similar at the time.

1, 2, 3 or 4 million a year might not be much, but thats 1-4 mil more the team had to spend on other players (which is the point some r trying to make) The whole Giselle is rich and thats why he takes less is a very weak argument. Not being nearly as greedy as you know who (and many others) Is one of the leadership qualities Ive always admired about him and one of the reasons he and his teams have been so successful (imho).

@post above,,,,Hard not to notice you left out the 2002 (renegotiation) 2003 & 2004 seasons.

 
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NE_REVIVAL said:
Agree with you more often than not, but respectfully not here.

196 mil is hardly chump change and not sure if anyone said otherwise, instead I think what people have said (or at least meant) and what is obvious to many is that Brady has never looked to grab every nickel on the table (like many other players). Does having a rich wife help? Sure, but can you honestly argue with those who point out (accurately) that Brady has never (not in 2001, not in 2017) been about the money.

Pre 2009? We can agree to disagree with you not believing he played for less before 2009 than he could have but the fact is he did. You don't have to take my word for it, here is an excerpt from a GQ article written in 2005.  Entrepreneurial, hardworking, humble off the eld and condent on it, he's acutely, safely all-American—the kind of guy who will accept a contract for well below market value ($60 million over six years, versus roughly $14 million a year for the Colts' Peyton Manning and $13 million for the Falcons' Michael Vick) so that his team will have enough left under the cap to adequately ll other positions. "Is it going to make me feel any better to make an extra million, which, after tas, is about $500,000?" Brady said in May, after agreeing to his new deal. "That million might be more important to the team."  http://www.gq.com/story/tom-brady-patriots Im fairly certain there are other articles that would have said similar at the time.

1, 2, 3 or 4 million a year might not be much, but thats 1-4 mil more the team had to spend on other players (which is the point some r trying to make) The whole Giselle is rich and thats why he takes less is a very weak argument. Not being nearly as greedy as you know who (and many others) Is one of the leadership qualities Ive always admired about him and one of the reasons he and his teams have been so successful (imho).
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The post just before this I posted that Brady was at or top of the market for the first 10 years of his career. He has only been on a deep discount since 2012, I never said he took team friendly deals in recent years solely because of Giselle. However, it would be harder for other QB's to start taking deep discounts when many (most) of the recent contracts have been player's first big paydays. By the time Brady started taking way less money, he was already rich (and also had Giselle). Let's see what players like Carr and Wilson do NEXT contract. Brady didn't leave a whole lot on the table in his first two extensions. But he did after that. In defense of the other QB's in question, they have not been set for life and made tens of millions of dollars yet. So IMO, it's not fair to compare what Brady agreed to play for at age 35 vs. what Carr signed for at 25.

 
Anarchy99 said:
The post just before this I posted that Brady was at or top of the market for the first 10 years of his career. He has only been on a deep discount since 2012, I never said he took team friendly deals in recent years solely because of Giselle. However, it would be harder for other QB's to start taking deep discounts when many (most) of the recent contracts have been player's first big paydays. By the time Brady started taking way less money, he was already rich (and also had Giselle). Let's see what players like Carr and Wilson do NEXT contract. Brady didn't leave a whole lot on the table in his first two extensions. But he did after that. In defense of the other QB's in question, they have not been set for life and made tens of millions of dollars yet. So IMO, it's not fair to compare what Brady agreed to play for at age 35 vs. what Carr signed for at 25.
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Yes I hadn't seen your most recent post before I had replied. Regarding the above where you posted that Brady was at or top of the market for the first 10 years of his career thats not exactly what you did. You did skip over the first 5 years of his career (i understand why) and left off the the contract extension in 2002 and didn't include years 2002, 2003 & 2004. Not only that, but it appears that a big chunk of the money remaining from the 2002 contract was accelerated into 2005-2006 seasons so I do think it is a bit unfair. I also concede that his value in 2002 is open to debate so we don't need to argue about it, I just thought it was a tiny bit unfair.

So at this point i think we both agree brady took less earlier in his career, but it would also be correct in saying he took "way" less later in his career. How much that had to do with Giselle is hard to say. Imho probably not much since by that point he had already made a lot of money on his own, but i can't\wouldn't say it is not some kind of a factor.

FTR, I also agree that it would be hard for most players to take less for their first big paydays (and why should they). Im probably coming at it slightly differently than some others. Yes I think Brady has always taken at least a little less than he could have right from the start. However, I don't begrudge Carr or Wilson (or anyone else) getting as much as they can this early in their career, it could be over in an instant. I was much more referring to the guys a bit later in their career who already have/had lots n lots of money; I just don't understand why more don't\didn't take a little less to help strengthen the team around them and give themselves a better chance at a SB win. Peace!

 
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NE_REVIVAL said:
Yes I hadn't seen your most recent post before I had replied. Regarding the above where you posted that Brady was at or top of the market for the first 10 years of his career thats not exactly what you did. You did skip over the first 5 years of his career (i understand why) and left off the the contract extension in 2002 and didn't include years 2002, 2003 & 2004. Not only that, but it appears that a big chunk of the money remaining from the 2002 contract was accelerated into 2005-2006 seasons so I do think it is a bit unfair. I also concede that his value in 2002 is open to debate so we don't need to argue about it, I just thought it was a tiny bit unfair.

So at this point i think we both agree brady took less earlier in his career, but it would also be correct in saying he took "way" less later in his career. How much that had to do with Giselle is hard to say. Imho probably not much since by that point he had already made a lot of money on his own, but i can't\wouldn't say it is not a factor.

FTR, I also agree that it would be hard for most players to take less for their first big paydays (and why should they). Im probably coming at it slightly differently than some others. Yes I think Brady has always taken at least a little less than he could have right from the start. However, I don't begrudge Carr or Wilson (or anyone else) getting as much as they can this early in their career, it could be over in an instant. I was much more referring to the guys a bit later in their career who already have/had lots n lots of money; I just don't understand why more don't\didn't take a little less to help strengthen the team around them and give themselves a better chance at a SB win. Peace!
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I don't fully agree that Brady took less early in his career, but extending a rookie usually does not bring a player on a rookie deal up to the top of the food chain. He signed his initial rookie deal in 2000. I didn't selectively choose to leave out his early salary cap rankings . . . I just couldn't find them. At the time, if he did take less, it would not have been leaps and bounds less like he does currently. 

 
Edelman and Gilmore in a scuffle in camp today. JE11 was less than thrilled with being held in coverage in an end zone drill. Got into it while laying on ground with Gilmore. Tussle ensued. Had to be broken up and separated. Both players tossed from practice.

 
Anarchy99 said:
I don't fully agree that Brady took less early in his career, but extending a rookie usually does not bring a player on a rookie deal up to the top of the food chain. He signed his initial rookie deal in 2000. I didn't selectively choose to leave out his early salary cap rankings . . . I just couldn't find them. At the time, if he did take less, it would not have been leaps and bounds less like he does currently. 
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Ok here is where I found it - http://www.spotrac.com/research/NFL/career-contract-analysis-tom-brady-613/

I'm sorry you can't concede a point you clearly lost. I provided an article (one of many i believe) stating at the time he was underpaid and that was the general sentiment (except apparently you). That he was underpaid is a fact, the only thing in question is by how much.

You said you listed his first ten seasons when in actuality you skipped his first 5, when I pointed out you were leaving out the first 5 years and badly skewing the numbers you said you couldn't find them. Fine no big deal.

Now you want to downplay Bradys second contract with the claim that "extending a rookie usually does not bring a player on a rookie deal up to the top of the food chain"

So the deal Derek Carr just signed didn't do exactly that?

Luv u man but gotta run and I think we r done here anyway.

From the link above.

FIRST EXTENSION (2002) Total Contract: $34,000,000 Actually Earned: $19,012,680

The Patriots quickly paid Brady like a franchise starting QB, signing him to a 4 year $30.145M extension through 2006. The deal included a $3.5M signing bonus and a $6M option bonus over the first two seasons. Brady rewarded the franchise with Divison Titles in 2003, 2004, AFC Championships in 2003, 2004, and a Super Bowl victory in 2004. Brady agreed to convert a total of $7.64M in 2003 & 2004 salaries, which became guaranteed cash in hand.

SECOND EXTENSION (2005) Total Contract: $60,100,000 Actually Earned: $54,515.500

With two years and $14.5M remaining on his first extension, the Patriots and Brady agreed on a 4 year $42.8 million new money extension. The deal included a $14.5M signing bonus (not a coincidence) , and a $12M second-year option bonus. Brady restructured $5.28M of his 2007 salary into bonus, guaranteeing that as well. With his career at a peak, Brady suffered a season ending knee injury early in on in 2008. It's the only year since 2003 that the Patriots haven't won the AFC East. Brady and the Patriots bounced back in 2009, after which another extension was put in front of him.

 
msommer said:
From the link below, please indicate the years where Derek Carr received more than 25m in order to make up for the years he does not.

Spotrac

ETA: Happy To Help
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I think I was finally able to wrap my tiny pea-brain around this.

"Year zero" had me dumbfounded.

If I'm understanding this, Carr was under contract for 2017 for cheap money (rookie deal).

OAK gives him a 5 year deal ... but they call it an extension so they can pad his 2017 salary ... for a total of $25m in 2017. (Year zero)

He then goes on to make $22.5m, $20m, $19m, $19.6m, $19.6m, over the next 5 seasons.

... but what everyone else is reporting is that the "raise" in 2017 is money that OAK moved from his 5 year deal to a year in which they already owned him for $2m.

When that "raise" is factored into the 5 year deal, Carr is a $25m a year guy.

The contract is 5yrs / $125m ... Says so in the top left corner of your linked page. Simple math. They moved some of the money into his existing contract to spread out the cap hit.

So the conclusion is that Carr is a greedy MF and his team will suffer for it. 

 
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