Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
captain_amazing

Indefinite New England Patriots Thread

Recommended Posts

46 minutes ago, [icon] said:

Edelman has been rehabbing and joined the team today. 

That poor bastard...he is such an insane competitor...gotta be killing him not to be playing...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Boston said:

That poor bastard...he is such an insane competitor...gotta be killing him not to be playing...

Ya think? :lol: 

Yeah.... he's going to be missed on Sunday. I love Danny and all, but Julian is not human when the stage is at it's biggest. 

Edited by [icon]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Got me watching Edelman highlight reels today at work. Guy is just a ####### animal... extra elusive....extra effort....extra yards... every play.  He will be missed Sunday.

God I hope he's back next year. So much fun to watch on the field. Straight hustle. Welker was great, but Edelman is a legend. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/2/2018 at 11:08 AM, [icon] said:

Got me watching Edelman highlight reels today at work. Guy is just a ####### animal... extra elusive....extra effort....extra yards... every play.  He will be missed Sunday.

God I hope he's back next year. So much fun to watch on the field. Straight hustle. Welker was great, but Edelman is a legend. 

I think Edelman is fantastic, but I still think he has a bit to go to be considered better than Welker was.  I think the numbers would back that up too, but I could be wrong.  

I know your not knocking Welker and this isn't addressed to you at all, but I think he has been snubbed by so many Pats fans since his departure.  He was just so clutch and had an unreal ability to make guys miss and gain YAK.  I'd say Edelman is faster, a better punt returner,  and a more versatile player player, but Welker had better quickness, was more reliable (health wise) and an overall better receiver.  They're probably pretty equal in terms of hands I'd say.

Edited by captain_amazing
Too not to
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, captain_amazing said:

I think Edelman is fantastic, but I still think he has a bit to go to be considered better than Welker was.  I think the numbers would back that up too, but I could be wrong.  

I know your not knocking Welker and this isn't addressed to you at all, but I think he has been snubbed by so many Pats fans since his departure.  He was just so clutch and had an unreal ability to make guys miss and gain YAK.  I'd say Edelman is faster, a better punt returner,  and a more versatile player player, but Welker had better quickness, was more reliable (health wise) and an overall better receiver.  They're probably pretty equal in terms of hands I'd say.

I love Welker and don’t disagree with a lot of whay you say...that being said no matter what the numbers say I want Edelman over Welker every single time...no knock on Welker but Edelman brings an attitude and edge that not many athletes have...his ability to come up big in big moments is as good as any WR...again I am not trying to knock Welker because he doesn’t deserve that but I have zero doubts that Edelman makes that catch in the Giant Super Bowl that was a big reason they lost because that is what he does...

Edited by Boston
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In one of the least surprising outcomes, TB12 named MVP again. 

Brady 40 votes, Gurley 8, Wentz 2.

Edited by Anarchy99
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

NE has a training program for their coaches. The OC and DC leaving will allow for upward mobility which is good. Patricia's path was Safeties coach, LB coach then DC. Flores path was Safeties coach then LB coach. BB's son is Safeties coach. The entry to the organization is as an assistant. It will be interesting if the Pats hire Ohio State's DC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Boston said:

I love Welker and don’t disagree with a lot of whay you say...that being said no matter what the numbers say I want Edelman over Welker every single time...no knock on Welker but Edelman brings an attitude and edge that not many athletes have...his ability to come up big in big moments is as good as any WR...again I am not trying to knock Welker because he doesn’t deserve that but I have zero doubts that Edelman makes that catch in the Giant Super Bowl that was a big reason they lost because that is what he does...

I'd take Welker in any clutch play over Edelman, but to each there own.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, captain_amazing said:

I'd take Welker in any clutch play over Edelman, but to each there own.

Reasonable minds may disagree and welker was outstanding but he dropped a sb winning pass he had both palms on and I "lean" edelman.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, NE_REVIVAL said:

Reasonable minds may disagree and welker was outstanding but he dropped a sb winning pass he had both palms on and I "lean" edelman.

I hear ya, but I feel one play shouldn't define someone's career, particularly that one that everyone points to (additionally, it was a horrendous throw).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, captain_amazing said:

I hear ya, but I feel one play shouldn't define someone's career, particularly that one that everyone points to (additionally, it was a horrendous throw).

1 play shouldn't define a career but right or wrong it often does just that; people remember big catches in big games and tend to forget the rest. It was not a horrendous throw when u consider where the safety was, the ball was thrown away from the safties side which is exactly where u want it. Was it high? Yes, was it a hard catch? Yes, was it a catch he makes 7 out of 10 times? Yes

You got to catch that ball, was it harder than ABs catch in SB vs ARi? Manningham, Tyree, Edelman, Kearse, Butler etc, etc

Fair minds can disagree and I loved welker but both palms on the ball? U got to catch it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, NE_REVIVAL said:

1 play shouldn't define a career but right or wrong it often does just that; people remember big catches in big games and tend to forget the rest. It was not a horrendous throw when u consider where the safety was, the ball was thrown away from the safties side which is exactly where u want it. Was it high? Yes, was it a hard catch? Yes, was it a catch he makes 7 out of 10 times? Yes

You got to catch that ball, was it harder than ABs catch in SB vs ARi? Manningham, Tyree, Edelman, Kearse, Butler etc, etc

Fair minds can disagree and I loved welker but both palms on the ball? U got to catch it.

Agree with you.  Just a clarification - that was Santonio Holmes (not AB) who made the clutch catch vs Arizona.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, fred_1_15301 said:

Agree with you.  Just a clarification - that was Santonio Holmes (not AB) who made the clutch catch vs Arizona.

Yes, u r of course correct, all the bad guys seem to blend together;)

Edited by NE_REVIVAL
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just watched some Pats/Falcons...last play of the game...White's TD...there is Edelman getting off a great block...just another big play in a big moment for him...also, love when he talks with Brady on the sidelines and calls him Tommy during these games...looking forward to seeing him back on the field next year...

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Rodrigo Duterte said:

Do you have an actual response (besides linking stuff)?  

Because that kind of says enough, the fact that you have nothing to say about it.

Why should he respond?

You’re in here trolling and your mind is already made up. You don’t want the explanation that  NE spends more time with the referees clarifying rules at annual meetings. The fact that past and present heads of officials are on record that they do this, and that officials like Belichick because he treats them with respect. 

You don’t care that New England has the league’s most detailed records/analysis of each ref crew... they know EXACTLY what they will and won’t call. 

You don’t care that there is a strict game plan / mandate from Belichick to his coaches each week to relay this information to the players at that week’s practice, and coaches devote time in practice teaching players where they can/can’t put their hands, etc. 

Im guessing he doesn’t respond to you because your mind is already made up, and you’re not here for an answer, and wouldn’t listen to it even if it was presented to you. It’s easier to just parrot what you read on Facebook, than to educate yourself. 

I may be wrong, we shall see. 

Edited by [icon]
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do I get to post in here since I have had the privilege of living in mass for the past 10 odd years?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Defense completely exposed. A coach on the other sideline finally failed to crap his pants and kept his foot on the gas. Kudos to Pederson.

Benching of Bulter curious and questionable. I've got to think Butler could have helped...especially seeing Richards just look completely useless out there on some key plays.

And why on earth aren't you shadowing Jeffrey with Gilmore? Jeffrey caught a TD in the first half and then in the 2nd half, they make the switch and Jeffrey gets nothing. 

Can't win 'em all, but damn.

Edited by kyoun1e
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting rumor circulating that McDaniels is having second thoughts about going to the Colts and could stick around. Of course, this fuels the other speculation that BB is done or will be done in NE soon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, kyoun1e said:

Defense completely exposed. A coach on the other sideline finally failed to crap his pants and kept his foot on the gas. Kudos to Pederson.

Benching of Bulter curious and questionable. I've got to think Butler could have helped...especially seeing Richards just look completely useless out there on some key plays.

And why on earth aren't you shadowing Jeffrey with Gilmore? Jeffrey caught a TD in the first half and then in the 2nd half, they make the switch and Jeffrey gets nothing. 

Can't win 'em all, but damn.

I think the benching of Butler may have been the difference maker in the game. We will never know but it is hard for me to believe that Butler would not have faired better against Jeffrey in the first half as in the second when they placed Gilmore on him for good. With Ajayi apparently unable to go in the second and Gilmore shadowing Jeffrey- you could see the offense for Philly just not be the same.

Pederson did a hell of a job. He made tough "we are going to win this thing or we will lose it- we aren't letting the Patriots be the maters of our destiny" calls that paid off. They also didn't just try to make Foles run the system but bent the system to better suite Foles strengths.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BB's fatal flaw was, is and appears always will be not committing to a pass rush...I just don't understand this...show me a big Patriots loss and I will show you the inability to get to the QB...now the whole D was horrific but all it would have taken was a few QB pressures and things may have turned out differently...the fact the D could play that bad and they were basically 1 good defensive play from being able to win this game was a miracle...unfortunately there was no chance of that happening yesterday...

As for Butler...I don't see how anyone can comment on this until the facts come out...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Chadstroma said:

I think the benching of Butler may have been the difference maker in the game. We will never know but it is hard for me to believe that Butler would not have faired better against Jeffrey in the first half as in the second when they placed Gilmore on him for good. With Ajayi apparently unable to go in the second and Gilmore shadowing Jeffrey- you could see the offense for Philly just not be the same.

Pederson did a hell of a job. He made tough "we are going to win this thing or we will lose it- we aren't letting the Patriots be the maters of our destiny" calls that paid off. They also didn't just try to make Foles run the system but bent the system to better suite Foles strengths.

Butler on Jeffrey was a total mismatch. He would have 6 inches and 40-50 pounds on Butler. Butler didn't cause the team to not have a pass rush. Butler didn't whiff on tackling running backs that were bottled up and escaped for big plays. Butler didn't leave guys wide open in the middle of the filed. And Butler was not the universal answer for the RPO.

Butler also didn't stall in the red zone. Or miss kicks. Or get too cute on play calling. Or go for it and miss on 4th down. Or prevent the strip sack. The bottom line is, Butler maybe could have helped on a couple of plays, but Butler was not going to be the elixir that cured what was wrong with the Patriots last night.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Anarchy99 said:

Butler on Jeffrey was a total mismatch. He would have 6 inches and 40-50 pounds on Butler. Butler didn't cause the team to not have a pass rush. Butler didn't whiff on tackling running backs that were bottled up and escaped for big plays. Butler didn't leave guys wide open in the middle of the filed. And Butler was not the universal answer for the RPO.

Butler also didn't stall in the red zone. Or miss kicks. Or get too cute on play calling. Or go for it and miss on 4th down. Or prevent the strip sack. The bottom line is, Butler maybe could have helped on a couple of plays, but Butler was not going to be the elixir that cured what was wrong with the Patriots last night.

Agreed...that D was a complete and utter train-wreck yesterday...they did not need Butler...they needed LT, Ronnie Lott and Deion Sanders...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Butler on Jeffrey was a total mismatch. He would have 6 inches and 40-50 pounds on Butler. Butler didn't cause the team to not have a pass rush. Butler didn't whiff on tackling running backs that were bottled up and escaped for big plays. Butler didn't leave guys wide open in the middle of the filed. And Butler was not the universal answer for the RPO.

Butler also didn't stall in the red zone. Or miss kicks. Or get too cute on play calling. Or go for it and miss on 4th down. Or prevent the strip sack. The bottom line is, Butler maybe could have helped on a couple of plays, but Butler was not going to be the elixir that cured what was wrong with the Patriots last night.

I am not saying Butler was the better matchup but Butler is the better player. I think he could have made a play or two that were not made. And that is not to say that there were not other areas that the Patriots laid an egg in. The Eagles were the better team in the game. Overall, Pederson and the Eagles staff out schemed Belichek and his staff.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Boston said:

Agreed...that D was a complete and utter train-wreck yesterday...they did not need Butler...they needed LT, Ronnie Lott and Deion Sanders...

 

We will never know but the Pats just needed one play on defense. Butler is capable of making that kind of play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Boston said:

Agreed...that D was a complete and utter train-wreck yesterday...they did not need Butler...they needed LT, Ronnie Lott and Deion Sanders...

 

I think it all came down to all they needed to do was wrap up and tackle. It's as simple as that. Even with everything else that went wrong and with no pass rush, if they even made half the tackles they missed the game would probably have swung their way. There were runs that should have been losses or no gains and third down passes that would have been short and turned into 4th downs. Maybe the Eagles would have gone for it on those plays (some were in their own territory so I would guess not on those). Three more timely tackles could have changed the entire complexion of the game. We don't know if the outcome would have changed, but IMO the score would have been lower and NE might have been able to score in the 30's and win.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

I think it all came down to all they needed to do was wrap up and tackle. It's as simple as that. Even with everything else that went wrong and with no pass rush, if they even made half the tackles they missed the game would probably have swung their way. There were runs that should have been losses or no gains and third down passes that would have been short and turned into 4th downs. Maybe the Eagles would have gone for it on those plays (some were in their own territory so I would guess not on those). Three more timely tackles could have changed the entire complexion of the game. We don't know if the outcome would have changed, but IMO the score would have been lower and NE might have been able to score in the 30's and win.

Agree and disagree (as we often do with this topic)...fully agree with everything you say but no will ever convince me differently about the pass rush...when you give a good QB all the time in the world bad things are gonna happen...Foles could have played that game without a helmet on yesterday...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Chadstroma said:

I am not saying Butler was the better matchup but Butler is the better player. I think he could have made a play or two that were not made. And that is not to say that there were not other areas that the Patriots laid an egg in. The Eagles were the better team in the game. Overall, Pederson and the Eagles staff out schemed Belichek and his staff.

Color me not convinced. While Butler may have made a play, he also could have busted on three others and made things worse. Put another way, I think he would have been abused if they tried putting him on Jeffery. Maybe they would have put him on Agholor, but they were not getting any pressure and guys were getting open. 

Funny that at the beginning of the year people were convinced Butler should have gotten the money that Gilmore got, but at the end Gilmore played way better and Butler did not play anywhere near a lock down top of the market CB. What NE probably should have done was try harder to keep Logan Ryan while still bringing in Gilmore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know it’ll come out and probably soon. Butler played 98% of the snaps this season, there’s no way it was a football decision. He butt hurt Bill somehow.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Anarchy99 said:

Color me not convinced. While Butler may have made a play, he also could have busted on three others and made things worse. Put another way, I think he would have been abused if they tried putting him on Jeffery. Maybe they would have put him on Agholor, but they were not getting any pressure and guys were getting open. 

Funny that at the beginning of the year people were convinced Butler should have gotten the money that Gilmore got, but at the end Gilmore played way better and Butler did not play anywhere near a lock down top of the market CB. What NE probably should have done was try harder to keep Logan Ryan while still bringing in Gilmore.

it is hindsight but you are dead-on...there is something about Butler they really do not like...should have moved him for something last offseason and re-signed Ryan who did not get a crazy contract...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tackling was atrocious. Butler is their best tackling corner. But sure, he wouldn't have made a difference. Please.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Boston said:

it is hindsight but you are dead-on...there is something about Butler they really do not like...should have moved him for something last offseason ...

Butler not being traded to the Saints before the 2017 draft is still a huge mystery down here. In hindsight, it's almost like if he thought there was a one in ten chance Butler would play well elsewhere, Belichick's ego wouldn't let him pull the trigger. Like, he was pretty sure the team could move on from Butler just fine, but he somehow couldn't bear to be wrong. Just weird, and very un-Blichick-like in retrospect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Color me not convinced. While Butler may have made a play, he also could have busted on three others and made things worse. Put another way, I think he would have been abused if they tried putting him on Jeffery. Maybe they would have put him on Agholor, but they were not getting any pressure and guys were getting open. 

Funny that at the beginning of the year people were convinced Butler should have gotten the money that Gilmore got, but at the end Gilmore played way better and Butler did not play anywhere near a lock down top of the market CB. What NE probably should have done was try harder to keep Logan Ryan while still bringing in Gilmore.

Butler is the better player. You don't like the matchup then do what they did in the second and have Gilmore shadow Jeffrey. The Patriot D is not good enough to sit a guy of Butler's talent based on matchups. There is something else going on... it will come out but I can not believe that this was a matchup decision and if it was- what a complete failure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, fruity pebbles said:

You know it’ll come out and probably soon. Butler played 98% of the snaps this season, there’s no way it was a football decision. He butt hurt Bill somehow.

Anything stopping Butler from just going public with it? He doesn't seem allegiant to the Patriots anymore.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Doug B said:

Anything stopping Butler from just going public with it? He doesn't seem allegiant to the Patriots anymore.

Only thing is prolly not wanting to be looked at as a troublemaker before free agency.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Doug B said:

Butler not being traded to the Saints before the 2017 draft is still a huge mystery down here. In hindsight, it's almost like if he thought there was a one in ten chance Butler would play well elsewhere, Belichick's ego wouldn't let him pull the trigger. Like, he was pretty sure the team could move on from Butler just fine, but he somehow couldn't bear to be wrong. Just weird, and very un-Blichick-like in retrospect.

I think he wouldn't let Butler shoot his way out of town...they dug him up out of the scrap heap, gave him a chance and turned him into something...I get Butler wanting the $ but it wasn't his time and BB wasn't gonna move him just too make him happy...all that being said his career could not have more highs and lows in such a small window...there were times he looked like a legit #1 and times he looked bad...just a real odd career with the Pats...

Edited by Boston
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Boston said:

Agree and disagree (as we often do with this topic)...fully agree with everything you say but no will ever convince me differently about the pass rush...when you give a good QB all the time in the world bad things are gonna happen...Foles could have played that game without a helmet on yesterday...

This time I fully agree with you that the lack of pass rush was the primary thorn in their side yesterday. But even with that glowing deficiency, they STILL could have won if they had made even a couple more tackles. IMO, they would have been in position to somehow still win IN SPITE of their huge lack of pass rush.

To that end, back in the regular season when they were literally playing guys that were signed off of other team's practice squads, I remember they were playing their 10th guy at some of the D-line or edge positions. They clearly had a run of injuries, retirements, or guys that didn't pan out. You can only play who suits up, so they did the best they could.

As for the comments about imagine-what-they-could-have-done-with-Jones-and-Collins, they were never going to pony up the $50 million to keep Collins or the $82.5 million to keep Jones. You can't pay everybody, and in many ways you can't fault them overall as they continue to be right there at or near the end of the season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Doug B said:

Anything stopping Butler from just going public with it? He doesn't seem allegiant to the Patriots anymore.

You are assuming Butler knew what the issue was and that the Patriots gave him fair warning. It could easily stem from NE thinking they made him a fair offer and Butler declining. Who knows, maybe Butler or his agent started chirping about a new contract again leading up to the Super Bowl. Maybe Butler said the wrong team to BB right before the start of the game. At this point it's total guesswork.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Anarchy99 said:

You are assuming Butler knew what the issue was and that the Patriots gave him fair warning.

No, I meant "Why doesn't Butler go public with why he was benched last night"? Or at least his take on it?

Apologies ... kind of throwing around two Butler topics at the same time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

This time I fully agree with you that the lack of pass rush was the primary thorn in their side yesterday. But even with that glowing deficiency, they STILL could have won if they had made even a couple more tackles. IMO, they would have been in position to somehow still win IN SPITE of their huge lack of pass rush.

To that end, back in the regular season when they were literally playing guys that were signed off of other team's practice squads, I remember they were playing their 10th guy at some of the D-line or edge positions. They clearly had a run of injuries, retirements, or guys that didn't pan out. You can only play who suits up, so they did the best they could.

As for the comments about imagine-what-they-could-have-done-with-Jones-and-Collins, they were never going to pony up the $50 million to keep Collins or the $82.5 million to keep Jones. You can't pay everybody, and in many ways you can't fault them overall as they continue to be right there at or near the end of the season.

Got zero issues with not paying Jones and Collins...those type of decisions are why they stay on top every year...also, the fact they were basically one play away from winning despite their D would have been an all-time miracle...would have almost felt dirty about winning that way (almost)...it is not that they need a huge pass rush but they need a pass rush...losing Hightower was a killer because he is their defensive leader and one of the few guys on D capable of making big plays...would have been nice to see if the Rivers kid could have helped this year as well...but right now that front 7 needs some more athleticism and needs to have the ability to pressure the QB...do that and I have zero doubts they will figure it out on offense...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Doug B said:

No, I meant "Why doesn't Butler go public with why he was benched last night"? Or at least his take on it?

Apologies ... kind of throwing around two Butler topics at the same time.

Maybe he doesn't want it public...not sure what happened here but I don't think BB saw him eating with his hands at the pre-game meal and decided to bench him...as I said elsewhere...this has to be a discipline issue for him to not leave the bench while they got torched repeatedly...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Things being speculated on Boston sports radio about Butler

1. He cleaned out his locker early and said he wouldn’t be back

2. It was found out that was the the media leak for the BB, Brady, Garapolo stuff

3. He simply missed a curfew

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hearing rumors that I will not post because they are rumors...if they are true I am surprised he even dressed...too big of a story not to come out one, way or another...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Boston said:

Hearing rumors that I will not post because they are rumors...if they are true I am surprised he even dressed...too big of a story not to come out one, way or another...

The weed thing? Id be shocked if true cause the chain of events doesn’t make sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.