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The 2014 NFL Draft All-Overrated Team: Vanderbilt WR Jordan Matthews (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Sigmund Bloom
- Start date
Faust
MVP
CBSSports.com and NFLDraftScout.com Scouting Report:
WR Jordan Matthews
WR Jordan Matthews
WR Jordan Matthews
NFL.com scouting Report:
WR Jordan Matthews
bonesman
Footballguy
Yea, I've seen a couple people high on him here (one guy had him as his #2)... but for the most part he seems to be pretty UNDERrated by most people, being listed as maybe the 9th or 10th WR in this draft.
When are we going to see a Bloom 100 to see where you actually slot him?
Faust posted this in another thread. I think he looks very interesting.
NFL.com's Gil Brandt considers Vanderbilt WR Jordan Matthews to be one of the hardest working prospects out there.
"Everyone was worried about his speed, and some wonder whether he's going to be just a possession receiver," Brandt writes. "What I know about Matthews is that he's one of the hardest-working prospects out there. He's the guy who, whenever he stops playing football, will be a hugely successful person, whether it's as a politician or a banker or an entrepreneur. He's a really special guy." Matthews has the ideal size (6-foot-3, 209 pounds)and speed (4.46 at Combine) that coaches are looking for at the next level, but his mental make-up is something that will only help his stock moving forward. Matthews is projected to go in the second-round of the draft.
NFL.com's Gil Brandt considers Vanderbilt WR Jordan Matthews to be one of the hardest working prospects out there.
"Everyone was worried about his speed, and some wonder whether he's going to be just a possession receiver," Brandt writes. "What I know about Matthews is that he's one of the hardest-working prospects out there. He's the guy who, whenever he stops playing football, will be a hugely successful person, whether it's as a politician or a banker or an entrepreneur. He's a really special guy." Matthews has the ideal size (6-foot-3, 209 pounds)and speed (4.46 at Combine) that coaches are looking for at the next level, but his mental make-up is something that will only help his stock moving forward. Matthews is projected to go in the second-round of the draft.
cstu
Footballguy
I couldn't agree more. He checks all the boxes physically, but when you watch him on tape he gets very little separation. Unless you are watching specifically for separation it's easy to overlook since he makes great catches while being covered. I just don't think that will translate well to the NFL and I get a slightly faster Brandon Gibson feeling about him.
Milkman
Footballguy
6'3 212 pounds
Legit 4.4 blow the top of defenses speed
Good hands (Biggest hands of all the WR at the combine) This makes a difference especially in cold weather.
Strong (benched 225 21 times)
"Killed" the SEC with no other real offensive threats on the team and basically crap at QB
Lines up all over the field.
One of the best route runners in College.
Hard worker that wants to be coached up.
There have been players quoted as saying he's the best WR
In the NFL teams are going to press him especially when he's lined up outside. That's where his strong upper body is going to help him get off jams. He's going to learn that he has to get a little meaner. He will. A lot of guys in here don't like his tape. He doesn't gain enough separation in their mind. I have been thinking about this and I came up with an analogy I think will help describe how Matthews does it. Bare with me here.
There is two basketball players. Player A has the quickest first step you have ever seen. He can blow by people with ease. The problem is he can't shoot. This mother ####er can't hit the backboard yo! So he does his fancy dribbling and talking #### and a smart defender just gives him 4 feet and lets him shoot but with the space Player A can't blow by him. Every once in a while Player A does something unreal and everybody freaks out but really unless he can get better at other parts of his game he will never reach his potential.
Player B has an average first step but he's an above average shooter. He is also bigger/smarter/and slightly above average at everything else. He knows he can get his defenders off balance by staying in a three point stance, faking a shot if the defender is up tight on him. This gets the defender off his feet and with his average/slightly above average first step he can blow by him. EZ game.
Matthews is player B. He doesn't really blow people away with insane jukes or a crazy first step. However he can line up anywhere on the field which will help him get open. He is also one of the best route runners in college football which will help him get open. He's also 6'3 with legit 4.4 speed which will help him get open. He has a slightly above average vert. He's also going to get better because he's a hard worker who's going to come in everyday and punch the time card so to speak.
That being said imo he has to many WR1 traits to ignore. Size+Speed+Hands+Route running. Plus he dominated the SEC being basically the only weapon on Vandy's team. His QB, although it's been pointed out doesn't suck, isn't likely to even be drafted. He didn't get lucky on every play he made for two seasons.
He should be a first round pick.
Legit 4.4 blow the top of defenses speed
Good hands (Biggest hands of all the WR at the combine) This makes a difference especially in cold weather.
Strong (benched 225 21 times)
"Killed" the SEC with no other real offensive threats on the team and basically crap at QB
Lines up all over the field.
One of the best route runners in College.
Hard worker that wants to be coached up.
There have been players quoted as saying he's the best WR
In the NFL teams are going to press him especially when he's lined up outside. That's where his strong upper body is going to help him get off jams. He's going to learn that he has to get a little meaner. He will. A lot of guys in here don't like his tape. He doesn't gain enough separation in their mind. I have been thinking about this and I came up with an analogy I think will help describe how Matthews does it. Bare with me here.
There is two basketball players. Player A has the quickest first step you have ever seen. He can blow by people with ease. The problem is he can't shoot. This mother ####er can't hit the backboard yo! So he does his fancy dribbling and talking #### and a smart defender just gives him 4 feet and lets him shoot but with the space Player A can't blow by him. Every once in a while Player A does something unreal and everybody freaks out but really unless he can get better at other parts of his game he will never reach his potential.
Player B has an average first step but he's an above average shooter. He is also bigger/smarter/and slightly above average at everything else. He knows he can get his defenders off balance by staying in a three point stance, faking a shot if the defender is up tight on him. This gets the defender off his feet and with his average/slightly above average first step he can blow by him. EZ game.
Matthews is player B. He doesn't really blow people away with insane jukes or a crazy first step. However he can line up anywhere on the field which will help him get open. He is also one of the best route runners in college football which will help him get open. He's also 6'3 with legit 4.4 speed which will help him get open. He has a slightly above average vert. He's also going to get better because he's a hard worker who's going to come in everyday and punch the time card so to speak.
That being said imo he has to many WR1 traits to ignore. Size+Speed+Hands+Route running. Plus he dominated the SEC being basically the only weapon on Vandy's team. His QB, although it's been pointed out doesn't suck, isn't likely to even be drafted. He didn't get lucky on every play he made for two seasons.
He should be a first round pick.
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NO. watch the tape. He runs a slant, a post, and hitch and go reasonably well, most of his other plays are screens, or running to a spot against zone coverage. He runs very little of the route tree on tape. This is a myth.
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werdnoynek
Footballguy
So you'd rather take the word of a middle of the pack (likely 4th round) prospect instead of actually watching the guy run poor routes? Gaines probably doesn't even know what a good route is... A screen isn't even a route is it?
Xue
Footballguy
I don't think "best route runner" = "most diversed route runner", but probably = "runs routes, in general, very well".
MAC_32
Footballguy
if an opponent singles a player out as being difficult to matchup with that is an attention grabber.
werdnoynek
Footballguy
Or they're trying to make themselves feel better for getting burned.MAC_32 said:
Xue
Footballguy
He's not the worst route runner, but I wouldn't call him the best either. He wasn't as quick as Abbrederis, Norwood, Grant, Davis, Herron, or Colter. But he was one of the more physical WRs at Senior Bowl and any lack of sharpness or quickness in his routes is made up by his size.Sigmund Bloom said:
Leroy's Aces
Footballguy
I respect your thoughts on this, but is it not conceivable that his pro coaches will be able to teach him to correctly run the full route tree? Was it his fault that his college coaches made him run 3 routes? Isn't he a 3.9 GPA (in high school) and graduating Econ major that has been widely praised as one of the most coachable players in this draft coming out? Wasn't he the guy that wanted game tape on opposing corners at the Senior Bowl? Seems to me like one should be able to project that he can improve in these areas of perceived deficiency.Sigmund Bloom said:
What a player cannot improve (much) is height, weight, speed, jumps, and agility. His best comps in that area include Demaryius Thomas, Fitz, Braylon Edwards, Riley Cooper and Josh Gordon
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cstu
Footballguy
Matthews - 6-2 5/8, 212, 4.46 40, 35.5" vertical, 4.18 SS, 6.95 3 cone
Brian Robiskie - 6-2 7/8, 209, 4.46 40, 37.5" vertical, 4.19 SS, 6.72 3 cone
That's nice that he wanted game tape on sr bowl corners, but that work ethic and coachability didnt help him gain separation against man coverage in college, and it wont get any easier in the pros. If he was running really excellent examples of the routes he did run, with sudden breaks and good footwork to change speeds and disguise the break, then i would be more optimistic about his ability to run the full route tree effectively in the pros
Milkman
Footballguy
werdnoynek
Footballguy
Leroy's Aces
Footballguy
I agree that it won't get easier in the pros, but FBGs own Matt Waldman spends a whole blog post here about how much Demaryius Thomas improved his route running in the pros. I guess my point is that I would prefer to draft a guy (Matthews) with great athletic skills and superb college production (45%+ of team yards and TDs for 2 years) running poor routes in college (and still dominating) than have an average athlete with average college production running great routes and gaining tons of separation while not scoring or catching many balls.
Good discussion, as I like to hear opposing viewpoints on these players.
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werdnoynek
Footballguy
Yet they're nothing alike as players. Your infatuation with measurables is right up there with Brewtown.
Milkman
Footballguy
He's got a little AJ in him. He's not as sudden as AJ like you pointed out but neither of them are overly physical and their builds and 40 times are very similar. Matthews is def smarter.........
werdnoynek
Footballguy
cstu
Footballguy
I wonder if people even watch these guys play. No one I've ever seen has ever looked so ho-hum putting up huge numbers as Jordan Matthews.
Leroy's Aces
Footballguy
Don't forget this part:
Matthews:
Jr season: 94 catches, 1323 yards, 8 TDs
Sr season: 112 catches, 1477 yards, 7 TDs
Robiskie:
Jr season: 55 catches, 935 yards, 11 TDs
Sr season: 42 catches, 535 yards, 8 TDs
Only 70 more catches and 942 more yards in a single season. How about a comp that has the same size and metrics that actually is good at playing football?
As an aside, Matthew's college coach's goal is to win football games. If he doesn't teach him to run a perfect route or the full route tree, what does he care? His logic probably went like this:
"Matthews is the only good player we have on offense, so how can we get him the ball as much as possible? Oh, how about just throw him the ball all of the time on screens and let him make plays? (which he did) And since everyone plays zone against us, how about he finds a hole in the zone and we tell him to just go where no one else is and throw it to him there? (which they did). And since we throw so many screens, how about we pretend to throw the short stuff and occasionally send him deep?" (which they did).
Or would his coach say, "Let's take our time and teach this kid the full route tree, spend a bunch of time on his route running, beating press coverage, and revamp our offense because we want to showcase him for pro scouts and amateur tapewatchers so he can get drafted higher?"
Maybe his college coaches suck at coaching. If they were great coaches, do you think they would be coaching WRs at a education-based school like Vanderbilt vs a football factory like 'Bama?
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Xue
Footballguy
Yes, he does line up in the slot and does a of damage against zone. Who else in the NFL does that? Vincent Jackson, Marques Colston.
He doesn't break that sharp in his routes. Who else does that in the NFL? Marques Colston.
I'm not comparing him to Colston, just saying I don't see it as a significant weakness. He'll make up with it with his size. He's not the best jumpball guy and doesn't always go up and get it, but he's one of the better ones at competing for the catch in tight coverage.
Watch at 0:18: http://youtu.be/LfoPwGsNhco?t=18s
Fights Marcus Roberson, a top 5 CB in this draft, all the way until the ball gets there.
The comparison I'm going with is a faster, more athletic Eric Decker.
He doesn't break that sharp in his routes. Who else does that in the NFL? Marques Colston.
I'm not comparing him to Colston, just saying I don't see it as a significant weakness. He'll make up with it with his size. He's not the best jumpball guy and doesn't always go up and get it, but he's one of the better ones at competing for the catch in tight coverage.
Watch at 0:18: http://youtu.be/LfoPwGsNhco?t=18s
Fights Marcus Roberson, a top 5 CB in this draft, all the way until the ball gets there.
The comparison I'm going with is a faster, more athletic Eric Decker.
werdnoynek
Footballguy
werdnoynek
Footballguy
Milkman
Footballguy
He only had three catches when they played man on him!
He only had 8 catches in the entire game. Nearly have of them were against man coverage by DBs that will be playing on Sundays. I mean to me it looked like it didn't matter if they were in man or zone. He ate them up.
Yeah but one of them is going to be a 4th rounder!
Thumbs up.
He only had 8 catches in the entire game. Nearly have of them were against man coverage by DBs that will be playing on Sundays. I mean to me it looked like it didn't matter if they were in man or zone. He ate them up.
Yeah but one of them is going to be a 4th rounder!
Thumbs up.
werdnoynek
Footballguy
Can't wait to bump this thread around this time next year when you're hyping the next tall guy with big arms, big hands, and a decent 40 as the next AJ Green.
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MAC_32
Footballguy
i don't think it is the hardest to evaluate.
buck naked
Footballguy
This is one of the best threads in the Shark Pool right now because both side on this have offered really interesting and thoughtful angles. I was thinking - "For once, nobody is just hurling insults". PLEASE don't offer responses like this.
Milkman
Footballguy
MoveToSkypager
Footballguy
The last thing we need is people meta commenting in the thread. Stick to the actual content or don't post.
MAC_32
Footballguy
since they are so often not on the screen, defensive backs. For fantasy purposes I want to say tight end, but my performance relative to others says rb. My ability to find wr has allowed me to fix mistakes elsewhere.
I don't see Matthews as good at competing for the ball at all. He's passive. I can however see the Decker compare, that's why I put Decker's picture on the article. From an FF standpoint, that means, much like Decker, his value is going to be based on his offense/QB more than his talent.
werdnoynek
Footballguy
Pretty much sums it up for me. I see a successful WR in Matthews but to call him or his WR skills potentially elite is wishful thinking. I'm shocked he's even being considered over Watkins or even Evans for that matter. If big straightline guys with very little shiftiness and who will likely struggle with separation are your thing, Evans should be the apple of your eye over Matthews. Much more of a complete WR.
Sidenote: I apologize to milk and everyone else for posting that nonsense last night. Booze gives me fat fingers and as a result it was hard for me to type more than 1 word responses. I try to refrain but my self control usually goes first.
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