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Carter_Can_Fly

Sammy Watkins the next Andre Johnson...

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I have the 1.01 pick and I am weighing all my options. But the clear number 1 in my opinion is Sammy Watkins. I can't help but see the resemblance when I watch Watkins play to that of Andre Johnson. They have that rare strength, speed, and physicality that is different than most. The tale of the tape...

Combine numbers:

Watkins

6 foot 1, 211 pounds

40 time: 4.43

Bench Press: 16 reps

Vertical: 34 inches

Broad: 10 foot 6

Johnson

6 foot 2, 230 pounds

40 time: 4.40

Bench Press: did not do

Vertical: 39 inches

Broad jump: 11 feet

Now, AJ is a complete beast and what he did as a 230 pounder in the 2003 combine was crazy good. Their styles though look eerily similar from what I see when I watch them play.

Some more numbers:

-AJ's college career he played 34 games in 3 years, his college career stats of 92 catches for 1831 yards with 20 td's is great Watkins even was better.

-Watkins college career is amazing. In 36 games he had 240 catches for 2291 yards and 27 td's.

-They both ran track. AJ had a personal best in the 100 meter race of 10.59 seconds and a 200 meter time of 21.51 seconds.

-Watkins has a personal best in the 100 meter race 10.45 seconds and the 200 meter race of 21.11 seconds.

-AJ was drafted at pick 1.03 of the 2003 draft and Watkins name will be called some where in the top 10 as well.

I think Watkins is the safest 1.01 of this years fantasy drafts by a large margin and he is going to be an absolute stud. I believe Watkins is going to be a ppr monster just like Andre. Watkins just like Andre (especially in his early years) has that ability to run by you, but they are not just run by you type of receivers. Andre through out his career has been a ppr monster and that is what I am seeing in Watkins. Take him at pick 1.01 and don't look back.

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AJ is a true freak of nature.

If I had to pick a comp it would Dez even though Dez is an inch taller and 13 lbs. heavier.

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Yep, it's hype season.

There are better comps out there than a guy 20 lbs heavier who is also faster and more powerful.

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There is a better Former Miami WR comp than Johnson, it's Wayne. More similar size, speed and explosiveness. Both are former 200m runner in track and I think they have similar games coming out.

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There is a better Former Miami WR comp than Johnson, it's Wayne. More similar size, speed and explosiveness. Both are former 200m runner in track and I think they have similar games coming out.

Watkins (shade under 6-1, 211) is more physical than Wayne (6-0, 198). I stick by my comparison to Dez.

Edited by cstu
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There is a better Former Miami WR comp than Johnson, it's Wayne. More similar size, speed and explosiveness. Both are former 200m runner in track and I think they have similar games coming out.

Watkins (shade under 6-1, 211) is more physical than Wayne (6-0, 198). I stick by my comparison to Dez.

I would definitely lean Watkins more towards Wayne than Dez. I don't see the big and the physical, I see the slighter frame (than AJ/Dez) and the body control.

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He's not big either.

He's medium. And big enough. Watkins is 6'1" and 205 lbs. Roddy White is 6'0" and 211 lbs. Watkins also is only 20 years old. I would think its a safe be the adds to his size. Heck he might still be growing...

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He's not big either.

He's medium. And big enough. Watkins is 6'1" and 205 lbs. Roddy White is 6'0" and 211 lbs. Watkins also is only 20 years old. I would think its a safe be the adds to his size. Heck he might still be growing...

He's still never going to be Andre Johnson.

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He's not big either.

He's medium. And big enough. Watkins is 6'1" and 205 lbs. Roddy White is 6'0" and 211 lbs. Watkins also is only 20 years old. I would think its a safe be the adds to his size. Heck he might still be growing...

Nfldraftscout has 6-1 2/8, 207 for Roddy. Watkins was 6-0 5/8, 211 at the combine.

Physically, the closest I was able to find was Nicks 6-0 6/8, 212. Watkins was faster - 4.43 to 4.51.

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He's not big either.

He's medium. And big enough. Watkins is 6'1" and 205 lbs. Roddy White is 6'0" and 211 lbs. Watkins also is only 20 years old. I would think its a safe be the adds to his size. Heck he might still be growing...

He's still never going to be Andre Johnson.

Why?

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He's not big either.

He's medium. And big enough. Watkins is 6'1" and 205 lbs. Roddy White is 6'0" and 211 lbs. Watkins also is only 20 years old. I would think its a safe be the adds to his size. Heck he might still be growing...

He's still never going to be Andre Johnson.

Why?

I don't mean in terms of production. He could very well produce like Johnson, what do I know. But they aren't similar players, and their body types are a big part of that.

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He's not big either.

He's medium. And big enough. Watkins is 6'1" and 205 lbs. Roddy White is 6'0" and 211 lbs. Watkins also is only 20 years old. I would think its a safe be the adds to his size. Heck he might still be growing...

He's still never going to be Andre Johnson.

Why?

I don't mean in terms of production. He could very well produce like Johnson, what do I know. But they aren't similar players, and their body types are a big part of that.

True, I did not mean they were 100 percent clones.

Their 40 times are pretty much identical, their 100 meter and 200 meter times are pretty much identical. The both have unreal hands where they just snatch the ball away from DB's. They both have big play ability but are used in multiple ways. Now I know AJ is a bigger WR. But Watkins imo plays similar to AJ.

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He's not big either.

He's medium. And big enough. Watkins is 6'1" and 205 lbs. Roddy White is 6'0" and 211 lbs. Watkins also is only 20 years old. I would think its a safe be the adds to his size. Heck he might still be growing...
He's still never going to be Andre Johnson.
Why?

I don't mean in terms of production. He could very well produce like Johnson, what do I know. But they aren't similar players, and their body types are a big part of that.

True, I did not mean they were 100 percent clones.

Their 40 times are pretty much identical, their 100 meter and 200 meter times are pretty much identical. The both have unreal hands where they just snatch the ball away from DB's. They both have big play ability but are used in multiple ways. Now I know AJ is a bigger WR. But Watkins imo plays similar to AJ.

I think the broad comparison holds all through your post, until you take into consideration the biggest part of Andre's game that you left out, which is also probably what makes him the dominant player he is--his raw power. Watkins will never have that. If he is to be a dominant WR as well, it will have to be done in a different way than Andre. Which is fine, but that's why they aren't similar players to me despite some general similarities in other facets of their games. Edited by ConnSKINS26

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He's not big either.

He's medium. And big enough. Watkins is 6'1" and 205 lbs. Roddy White is 6'0" and 211 lbs. Watkins also is only 20 years old. I would think its a safe be the adds to his size. Heck he might still be growing...
He's still never going to be Andre Johnson.

actually his game could be a lot like Andre's. In between the 20s. With his size it's highly unlikely he'll be an elite red zone target.

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He's not big either.

He's medium. And big enough. Watkins is 6'1" and 205 lbs. Roddy White is 6'0" and 211 lbs. Watkins also is only 20 years old. I would think its a safe be the adds to his size. Heck he might still be growing...
He's still never going to be Andre Johnson.

actually his game could be a lot like Andre's. In between the 20s. With his size it's highly unlikely he'll be an elite red zone target.

Read my last post in this thread. I'm not talking about production-wise. They could have very similar career numbers for all I know when it's all said and done. I'm talking about skill-set.

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He's not big either.

He's medium. And big enough. Watkins is 6'1" and 205 lbs. Roddy White is 6'0" and 211 lbs. Watkins also is only 20 years old. I would think its a safe be the adds to his size. Heck he might still be growing...
He's still never going to be Andre Johnson.

actually his game could be a lot like Andre's. In between the 20s. With his size it's highly unlikely he'll be an elite red zone target.

He's not big either.

He's medium. And big enough. Watkins is 6'1" and 205 lbs. Roddy White is 6'0" and 211 lbs. Watkins also is only 20 years old. I would think its a safe be the adds to his size. Heck he might still be growing...
He's still never going to be Andre Johnson.

actually his game could be a lot like Andre's. In between the 20s. With his size it's highly unlikely he'll be an elite red zone target.

I'm throwing the flag on this one. So if he was like an inch taller and say 10 lbs heavier he would be an elite red zone target??? I guess we will see. Roddy White is pretty good in the red zone. It isn't just size that matters. Did I really just say that? Sure it helps but route running, explosiveness, competing for the balls, and hands all important for the red zone. And Watkins has potential to be elite in those areas. I mean if it was just size Limas Sweed would have been terrific.

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He's not big either.

He's medium. And big enough. Watkins is 6'1" and 205 lbs. Roddy White is 6'0" and 211 lbs. Watkins also is only 20 years old. I would think its a safe be the adds to his size. Heck he might still be growing...
He's still never going to be Andre Johnson.

actually his game could be a lot like Andre's. In between the 20s. With his size it's highly unlikely he'll be an elite red zone target.

As has been pointed out, Andre has the size but has never been a big TD scorer. If he has one weakness, I'm not sure he is the most creative open field runner (though Watkins may not be either).

I kind of like the faster, more explosive Hakeem Nicks comp, haven't seen that before.

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He's not big either.

He's medium. And big enough. Watkins is 6'1" and 205 lbs. Roddy White is 6'0" and 211 lbs. Watkins also is only 20 years old. I would think its a safe be the adds to his size. Heck he might still be growing...
He's still never going to be Andre Johnson.
actually his game could be a lot like Andre's. In between the 20s. With his size it's highly unlikely he'll be an elite red zone target.

He's not big either.

He's medium. And big enough. Watkins is 6'1" and 205 lbs. Roddy White is 6'0" and 211 lbs. Watkins also is only 20 years old. I would think its a safe be the adds to his size. Heck he might still be growing...
He's still never going to be Andre Johnson.
actually his game could be a lot like Andre's. In between the 20s. With his size it's highly unlikely he'll be an elite red zone target.
I'm throwing the flag on this one. So if he was like an inch taller and say 10 lbs heavier he would be an elite red zone target??? I guess we will see. Roddy White is pretty good in the red zone. It isn't just size that matters. Did I really just say that? Sure it helps but route running, explosiveness, competing for the balls, and hands all important for the red zone. And Watkins has potential to be elite in those areas. I mean if it was just size Limas Sweed would have been terrific.
yep an inch and 10 pounds makes all the difference. For Watkins he would need an inch and a half. Edited by Milkman

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He's not big either.

He's medium. And big enough. Watkins is 6'1" and 205 lbs. Roddy White is 6'0" and 211 lbs. Watkins also is only 20 years old. I would think its a safe be the adds to his size. Heck he might still be growing...
He's still never going to be Andre Johnson.

actually his game could be a lot like Andre's. In between the 20s. With his size it's highly unlikely he'll be an elite red zone target.

As has been pointed out, Andre has the size but has never been a big TD scorer. If he has one weakness, I'm not sure he is the most creative open field runner (though Watkins may not be either).

I kind of like the faster, more explosive Hakeem Nicks comp, haven't seen that before.

I know it pisses people off, but he's a little less athletic Torrey Smith with bigger hands. Justin Blackmon comes to mind as well.

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Torrey Smith doesn't play the ball in the air as well (despite his far better VJ advantage) and he isn't as strong running after the catch.

It is a comp that has come up because he is one of the closest in height/weight, but their game and skills are far from identical. Smith is more Mike Wallace-like. Watkins a lot more physical.

Blackmon not too far off physically, but Watkins is faster and a lot more explosive. Needless to say, Blackmon would be a much more valued dynasty commodity if not for his multiple suspensions.

If Michael Crabtree could run a 4.43, that might be a more relevant comp than Smith (he is about the same height and maybe 5 lbs. heavier).

Blackmon went top 5 and Crabtree top 10.

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He's not big either.

He's medium. And big enough. Watkins is 6'1" and 205 lbs. Roddy White is 6'0" and 211 lbs. Watkins also is only 20 years old. I would think its a safe be the adds to his size. Heck he might still be growing...
He's still never going to be Andre Johnson.

actually his game could be a lot like Andre's. In between the 20s. With his size it's highly unlikely he'll be an elite red zone target.

Because Andre Johnson has been an elite red zone target? Johnson's next 10-TD season will be his first. Andre ranks 14th in career receptions, 17th in career receiving yards... and 68th in career receiving touchdowns.

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He's not big either.

He's medium. And big enough. Watkins is 6'1" and 205 lbs. Roddy White is 6'0" and 211 lbs. Watkins also is only 20 years old. I would think its a safe be the adds to his size. Heck he might still be growing...
He's still never going to be Andre Johnson.

actually his game could be a lot like Andre's. In between the 20s. With his size it's highly unlikely he'll be an elite red zone target.

Because Andre Johnson has been an elite red zone target? Johnson's next 10-TD season will be his first. Andre ranks 14th in career receptions, 17th in career receiving yards... and 68th in career receiving touchdowns.

Yeah that's what I was trying to say. I must have worded it wrong. Watkins is "not" going to be an elite red zone target much like Andre Johnson was "not" and elite red zone target.

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He's not big either.

He's medium. And big enough. Watkins is 6'1" and 205 lbs. Roddy White is 6'0" and 211 lbs. Watkins also is only 20 years old. I would think its a safe be the adds to his size. Heck he might still be growing...
He's still never going to be Andre Johnson.

actually his game could be a lot like Andre's. In between the 20s. With his size it's highly unlikely he'll be an elite red zone target.

Because Andre Johnson has been an elite red zone target? Johnson's next 10-TD season will be his first. Andre ranks 14th in career receptions, 17th in career receiving yards... and 68th in career receiving touchdowns.

Yeah that's what I was trying to say. I must have worded it wrong. Watkins is "not" going to be an elite red zone target much like Andre Johnson was "not" and elite red zone target.

Well that makes a lot more sense. Carry on! :)

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Personally, I think he plays like a taller Percy Harvin. Anytime I see someone not rank him as the #1 fantasy or NFL receiver in the draft, I instantly distrust that persons creditablility.

Edited by Donnybrook
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Torrey Smith doesn't play the ball in the air as well (despite his far better VJ advantage) and he isn't as strong running after the catch.

It is a comp that has come up because he is one of the closest in height/weight, but their game and skills are far from identical. Smith is more Mike Wallace-like. Watkins a lot more physical.

Blackmon not too far off physically, but Watkins is faster and a lot more explosive. Needless to say, Blackmon would be a much more valued dynasty commodity if not for his multiple suspensions.

If Michael Crabtree could run a 4.43, that might be a more relevant comp than Smith (he is about the same height and maybe 5 lbs. heavier).

Blackmon went top 5 and Crabtree top 10.

He's definitely a more physical runner than Smith. Smith is definitely the better athlete. But I'm trying to project him to the NFL. I'm not trying to find Chris Paul's long lost twin brother that works Allstate. Torrey Smith is under 6'2 with tiny hands. Watkins is under 6'2 with a below avg vert. He's not going to be a great jumpball receiver vs #1 CBs in the league. Both of their output would be suppressed if being forced into a #1 WR role. Put them in Roddy White or Victor Cruz's (when Nicks was right) shoes and sky's the limit for fantasy. The same with Blackmon, he started tearing up the league being a 1a/1b with shorts. For his sake, I hope he isn't taken to be the savior for the Rams. It wouldn't be the same as if he was opposite of Calvin Johnson. His situation will be everything.

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Personally, I think he plays like a taller Percy Harvin. Anytime I see someone not rank him as the #1 fantasy or NFL receiver in the draft, I instantly distrust that persons creditablility.

I see the harvin comp too. Possible reasons for not ranking him 1 also include but are not limited to:

1. They have become height crazed. If Watkins was an inch or two taller then we would be talking about him as the best prospect since Calvin. Meanwhile obviously there's way more to life as a WR than height. Most people would agree with that statement but I think they become disappointed when a WR is now less that 6'2".

2. People want to be contrarian.

3. They traded their top rookie pick or Watkins from their college roster, and are either consciously or unconsciously defending that decision. Most do this because it's just how humans are built.

4. They have not watched enough film of Watkins.

5. They do not like the shiny new toy so when one gets hyped up they immediately think of selling high. This is not a bad strategy except for when you actually trade ADP or Calvin before they play a down in the NFL.

6. They are trying to knock down the value of Watkins to get them cheaper.

7. They get stuck on the imperfections of the player... He caught too many screens... He is not big enough... He smoked cannabis in college...etc. No prospect is perfect. Except maybe Calvin.

8. They watch film but see different things than others do. This happens a lot with RBs where one person will say 'look at this run!' and another will post almost immediately that 'the offensive line was outstanding on that play!'

I will stop there. The bottom line is that while we might have differing opinions it is a good thing because it makes for a marketplace for players. And what the heck would be the point of Internet forums if everyone agreed...

Oh and if Watkins is a taller Harvin - and I really like the comparison only with better receiving skills and injury history - then he should become a top 5 WR in FF.

Edited by Gandalf
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Personally, I think he plays like a taller Percy Harvin. Anytime I see someone not rank him as the #1 fantasy or NFL receiver in the draft, I instantly distrust that persons creditablility.

You distrust my credit score for thinking Evans will be the better pro?

Edited by matuski

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You guys should check out Draftable. I don't know how useful this site is in the grand scheme of player evaluation, because it doesn't take into account playing style, football intelligence, or intangibles, but it's a fun and informative read anyway. Talking strictly measurables from the combine, Watkins is most like Steve Breaston and Justin Blackmon.

ETA: I actually think, of the players he's most like based on measurables in that list, I think he's pre-injuries Mike Sims-Walker. And if anyone remembers MSW pre-injuries, this is definitely a good thing. He was actually a better prospect than Brandon Marshall while at UCF.

It actually shows that the player most like Andre Johnson in terms of measurables is Donte Moncrief. And the Mike Evans and Jordan Matthews comparisons are intriguing. Josh Gordon and Demaryius Thomas respectively.

One big note to take away from that site is that measurables are a small part of the equation as a TON of guys listed as comps to the top prospects in the draft have amounted to nothing in the NFL

Edited by doowain
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OMG Watkins hysteria has hit an all time high.

Watkins is no where near a taller Percy Harvin. He showed that at the combine. He is not even close to the same kind of athlete. Percy Harvin is an elite athlete. Sammy Watkins is a 6'0 4.4 guy. They're all over the NFL.

This comparison is what's driving Watkins value right now imo and it's a bad comparison. It's why anybody with the 1st pick in the draft should be looking to sell.

Edited by Milkman
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OMG Watkins hysteria has hit an all time high.

Watkins is no where near a taller Percy Harvin. He showed that at the combine. He is not even close to the same kind of athlete. Percy Harvin is an elite athlete. Sammy Watkins is a 6'0 4.4 guy. They're all over the NFL.

This comparison is what's driving Watkins value right now imo and it's a bad comparison. It's why anybody with the 1st pick in the draft should be looking to sell.

He is an elite athlete whether you say so or not. You act as if running a 4.4 is an everday occurence or that every NFL WR can run one. Watkins also clocked in at 10.50 in a one hundred meter race and at the 200 he ran 21.51 second race. His broad jump of 10 foot 5 is good and his vertical at 34 inches is also good. Just because some other guys in the NFL or rookies can do it or even measure a little better, it does not mean that Watkins measureables are not elite.

I don't think you realize how elite some of those things Watkins did actually are. He also benches 225 pounds 16 times. A lot of WR's don't even bench due to knowing they will not test well. Furthermore, measureables are only one part of what makes some of these guys elite. Have you actually sat and watched Watkins play? Do you just dismiss any highly touted WR? Who cares if you can jump high if you don't have ball skills or the timing to make the proper play over a DB.

Some guys just have the natural talent and god given ability that you can't teach when Sunday rolls around. Jerry Rice for instance clocked in at very unimpressive 4.71 forty time. Was he not elite either?

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Sorry but he's not close to a bigger Harvin. Go look at the numbers Harvin put up and tell me what numbers Watkins put up that's even comparable.

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Sorry but he's not close to a bigger Harvin. Go look at the numbers Harvin put up and tell me what numbers Watkins put up that's even comparable.

No two prospects are the same. Harvin is an elite athlete, and put up better combine numbers. It still is not going to convince me that Watkins is not an elite athlete, because he is elite.

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OMG Watkins hysteria has hit an all time high.

Watkins is no where near a taller Percy Harvin. He showed that at the combine. He is not even close to the same kind of athlete. Percy Harvin is an elite athlete. Sammy Watkins is a 6'0 4.4 guy. They're all over the NFL.

This comparison is what's driving Watkins value right now imo and it's a bad comparison. It's why anybody with the 1st pick in the draft should be looking to sell.

He is an elite athlete whether you say so or not. You act as if running a 4.4 is an everday occurence or that every NFL WR can run one. Watkins also clocked in at 10.50 in a one hundred meter race and at the 200 he ran 21.51 second race. His broad jump of 10 foot 5 is good and his vertical at 34 inches is also good. Just because some other guys in the NFL or rookies can do it or even measure a little better, it does not mean that Watkins measureables are not elite.

I don't think you realize how elite some of those things Watkins did actually are. He also benches 225 pounds 16 times. A lot of WR's don't even bench due to knowing they will not test well. Furthermore, measureables are only one part of what makes some of these guys elite. Have you actually sat and watched Watkins play? Do you just dismiss any highly touted WR? Who cares if you can jump high if you don't have ball skills or the timing to make the proper play over a DB.

Some guys just have the natural talent and god given ability that you can't teach when Sunday rolls around. Jerry Rice for instance clocked in at very unimpressive 4.71 forty time. Was he not elite either?

All of that is elite compared to all humans, but just in the subset of NFL athletes, Sammy Watkins is not an elite athlete.

Using the site Doowain linked to, Sammy Watkins was in the 83rd percentile in his broad jump, which if you tilt your head to the side and squint hard is almost elite for a guy with average size (34th percentile height, 72nd percentile weight). Of course, that's Watkins' best drill. He was 77th percentile in the 40, and 60th or worse in all other athletic drills. In other words, he's a solidly above-average athlete, but not anywhere in the neighborhood of elite.

The website has all of this information in a handy little chart. You want to see what an elite athlete's chart looks like? Check out Calvin Johnson's, or Mario Williams', or Vernon Davis'. Again, Watkins is a good athlete for an NFL WR, but he's a long way from elite.

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OMG Watkins hysteria has hit an all time high.

Watkins is no where near a taller Percy Harvin. He showed that at the combine. He is not even close to the same kind of athlete. Percy Harvin is an elite athlete. Sammy Watkins is a 6'0 4.4 guy. They're all over the NFL.

This comparison is what's driving Watkins value right now imo and it's a bad comparison. It's why anybody with the 1st pick in the draft should be looking to sell.

He is an elite athlete whether you say so or not. You act as if running a 4.4 is an everday occurence or that every NFL WR can run one. Watkins also clocked in at 10.50 in a one hundred meter race and at the 200 he ran 21.51 second race. His broad jump of 10 foot 5 is good and his vertical at 34 inches is also good. Just because some other guys in the NFL or rookies can do it or even measure a little better, it does not mean that Watkins measureables are not elite.

I don't think you realize how elite some of those things Watkins did actually are. He also benches 225 pounds 16 times. A lot of WR's don't even bench due to knowing they will not test well. Furthermore, measureables are only one part of what makes some of these guys elite. Have you actually sat and watched Watkins play? Do you just dismiss any highly touted WR? Who cares if you can jump high if you don't have ball skills or the timing to make the proper play over a DB.

Some guys just have the natural talent and god given ability that you can't teach when Sunday rolls around. Jerry Rice for instance clocked in at very unimpressive 4.71 forty time. Was he not elite either?

All of that is elite compared to all humans, but just in the subset of NFL athletes, Sammy Watkins is not an elite athlete.

Using the site Doowain linked to, Sammy Watkins was in the 83rd percentile in his broad jump, which if you tilt your head to the side and squint hard is almost elite for a guy with average size (34th percentile height, 72nd percentile weight). Of course, that's Watkins' best drill. He was 77th percentile in the 40, and 60th or worse in all other athletic drills. In other words, he's a solidly above-average athlete, but not anywhere in the neighborhood of elite.

The website has all of this information in a handy little chart. You want to see what an elite athlete's chart looks like? Check out Calvin Johnson's, or Mario Williams', or Vernon Davis'. Again, Watkins is a good athlete for an NFL WR, but he's a long way from elite.

Boom.

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OMG Watkins hysteria has hit an all time high.

Watkins is no where near a taller Percy Harvin. He showed that at the combine. He is not even close to the same kind of athlete. Percy Harvin is an elite athlete. Sammy Watkins is a 6'0 4.4 guy. They're all over the NFL.

This comparison is what's driving Watkins value right now imo and it's a bad comparison. It's why anybody with the 1st pick in the draft should be looking to sell.

He is an elite athlete whether you say so or not. You act as if running a 4.4 is an everday occurence or that every NFL WR can run one. Watkins also clocked in at 10.50 in a one hundred meter race and at the 200 he ran 21.51 second race. His broad jump of 10 foot 5 is good and his vertical at 34 inches is also good. Just because some other guys in the NFL or rookies can do it or even measure a little better, it does not mean that Watkins measureables are not elite.

I don't think you realize how elite some of those things Watkins did actually are. He also benches 225 pounds 16 times. A lot of WR's don't even bench due to knowing they will not test well. Furthermore, measureables are only one part of what makes some of these guys elite. Have you actually sat and watched Watkins play? Do you just dismiss any highly touted WR? Who cares if you can jump high if you don't have ball skills or the timing to make the proper play over a DB.

Some guys just have the natural talent and god given ability that you can't teach when Sunday rolls around. Jerry Rice for instance clocked in at very unimpressive 4.71 forty time. Was he not elite either?

All of that is elite compared to all humans, but just in the subset of NFL athletes, Sammy Watkins is not an elite athlete.

Using the site Doowain linked to, Sammy Watkins was in the 83rd percentile in his broad jump, which if you tilt your head to the side and squint hard is almost elite for a guy with average size (34th percentile height, 72nd percentile weight). Of course, that's Watkins' best drill. He was 77th percentile in the 40, and 60th or worse in all other athletic drills. In other words, he's a solidly above-average athlete, but not anywhere in the neighborhood of elite.

The website has all of this information in a handy little chart. You want to see what an elite athlete's chart looks like? Check out Calvin Johnson's, or Mario Williams', or Vernon Davis'. Again, Watkins is a good athlete for an NFL WR, but he's a long way from elite.

He might not be an elite athlete relative to NFL standards. I think he is just elite at being a WR and that is way more important that how tall or fast he is.

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The website has all of this information in a handy little chart. You want to see what an elite athlete's chart looks like? Check out Calvin Johnson's, or Mario Williams', or Vernon Davis'. Again, Watkins is a good athlete for an NFL WR, but he's a long way from elite.

Those charts are great at identifying big WR's - if you only follow that you'll end up drafting Jeff Janis over Watkins.

Here's Randall Cobb's chart, he looks terrible. Greg Little looks like a stud. Definitely gotta get Jon Baldwin.

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Sorry but he's not close to a bigger Harvin. Go look at the numbers Harvin put up and tell me what numbers Watkins put up that's even comparable.

No two prospects are the same. Harvin is an elite athlete, and put up better combine numbers. It still is not going to convince me that Watkins is not an elite athlete, because he is elite.

Watkins is about as close to average as you can get when comparing combine numbers.

Watkins

Height - 6'1"

Weight - 211 pounds

40 time - 4.43 secs

Bench press - 16

Broad jump - 126"

Vertical jump - 34"

Average WR (http://mockdraftable.com/position/11/)

Height - 6'1"

Weight - 201 pounds

40 time - 4.51 secs

Bench press - 15

Broad jump - 120"

Vertical jump - 35.5"

Edited by fridayfrenzy

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Sorry but he's not close to a bigger Harvin. Go look at the numbers Harvin put up and tell me what numbers Watkins put up that's even comparable.

I did and all that tells me is that Harvin weighed 20 lbs. less and ran slightly faster.

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Watkins is about as close to average as you can get when comparing combine numbers.

Watkins

Weight - 211 pounds

40 time - 4.43 secs

Average WR (http://mockdraftable.com/position/11/)

Weight - 201 pounds

40 time - 4.51 secs

10 lbs. heavier and almost a .10 faster than an average WR doesn't not make him average.

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