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Henry Ford

The Lawyer Thread Where We Stop Ruining Other Threads

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The worst thing about being a lawyer is when you do something unbelievable and you're not allowed to tell anyone about it.

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3 hours ago, Henry Ford said:

The worst thing about being a lawyer is when you do something unbelievable and you're not allowed to tell anyone about it.

This is a safe place. Go on . . .

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Just now, Christo said:

This is a safe place. Go on . . 

I wish.  But it was the most amazing thing I’ve ever done. 

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9 hours ago, Henry Ford said:

I wish.  But it was the most amazing thing I’ve ever done. 

:popcorn: 

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11 hours ago, Henry Ford said:

I wish.  But it was the most amazing thing I’ve ever done. 

Make sure to celebrate tonight. You deserve it.

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53 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

I KNOW

Oh COME ON. Change the names, tweak the facts, put some butter on it, and serve it up!

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On 8/15/2018 at 0:15 PM, Henry Ford said:

I have a family member who was a patent prosecutor for his whole career.  Every single day he wished he were a litigator.  Or, as he put it, "a real lawyer."  Grass is always greener.

I get that. I figure I’ll do this into my mid fifties I figure, and then reevaluate. At some point I’ll hopefully be in a position financially to be comfortable enough to be able to walk away and write patents or consult.

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9 hours ago, Henry Ford said:

I wish.  But it was the most amazing thing I’ve ever done. 

Twins?

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11 hours ago, Otis said:

Oh COME ON. Change the names, tweak the facts, put some butter on it, and serve it up!

It’s not even possible.  Any detail would reveal what I did.  If I were allowed to discuss this I would be on the news like Michael Avenatti for weeks. 

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Well,  I start trial Monday so I'll be likely annoyed at anything having to do with lawyers for a week or so anyway. So I don't even want to know. 

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10 minutes ago, Yankee23Fan said:

Well,  I start trial Monday so I'll be likely annoyed at anything having to do with lawyers for a week or so anyway. So I don't even want to know. 

I don't even have to put on a suit Monday :P

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15 minutes ago, Yankee23Fan said:

Well,  I start trial Monday so I'll be likely annoyed at anything having to do with lawyers for a week or so anyway. So I don't even want to know. 

That’s why I love you. 

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4 minutes ago, Christo said:

I don't even have to put on a suit Monday :P

That’s why I’m worried you’re never wearing pants. 

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I am starting a petition to the A.B.A. for them to introduce legislation that requires every civil judge in every state level superior court - especially New Jersey - to have a wet bar in their courtroom for attorneys only.  No drink maximum, doesn't have to be all top shelf but some good stuff better be there, and it is open until the judge says, call your first witness.

Whose with me?

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On 8/17/2018 at 5:48 PM, Henry Ford said:

It’s not even possible.  Any detail would reveal what I did.  If I were allowed to discuss this I would be on the news like Michael Avenatti for weeks. 

Look at this freaking guy. 

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Gotta admit, job satisfaction probably at an all time low. I passed up running for a judge position and am now watching less qualified candidates vie for it. In the past week I’ve been significantly let down by members of my support staff that have probably personally cost me a few grand. My partners and associates can’t look at their schedules well enough in advance that I’m needed to cover hearings causing me to work even later than normal with no financial benefit to me. Had my own personal hearing today for my foster daughter where the AG dropped the ball and our adoption date is delayed 90 days. Ended the day with a client who is far beyond his initial retainer screaming and cursing about the unreasonable relief he expects me to get him. 

I haven’t worked out in like three weeks. I don’t see an opportunity in sight. I see my kids like fifteen minutes per day.  Dammit I should have become an actuary. 

Edited by Zow

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21 minutes ago, Zow said:

Look at this freaking guy. 

I’ve never wanted to talk about anything this much.  I feel like a hairdresser. 

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Just now, Henry Ford said:

I’ve never wanted to talk about anything this much.  I feel like a hairdresser. 

So give each one of us a perm. 

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27 minutes ago, Zow said:

So give each one of us a perm. 

That’s sexual harassment.  And I don’t have to take it. 

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25 minutes ago, Henry Ford said:

That’s sexual harassment.  And I don’t have to take it. 

You don't have to...but you can if you want.

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9 hours ago, Zow said:

Gotta admit, job satisfaction probably at an all time low. I passed up running for a judge position and am now watching less qualified candidates vie for it. In the past week I’ve been significantly let down by members of my support staff that have probably personally cost me a few grand. My partners and associates can’t look at their schedules well enough in advance that I’m needed to cover hearings causing me to work even later than normal with no financial benefit to me. Had my own personal hearing today for my foster daughter where the AG dropped the ball and our adoption date is delayed 90 days. Ended the day with a client who is far beyond his initial retainer screaming and cursing about the unreasonable relief he expects me to get him. 

I haven’t worked out in like three weeks. I don’t see an opportunity in sight. I see my kids like fifteen minutes per day.  Dammit I should have become an actuary. 

My favoite refrain: Why haven't you filed that motion we discussed? Well, you owe me money. I'd love to start working on the motion once you pay me what you owe and replenish your retainer.

Edited by Christo

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On ‎8‎/‎22‎/‎2018 at 9:27 AM, Christo said:

My favoite refrain: Why haven't you filed that motion we discussed? Well, you owe me money. I'd love to start working on the motion once you pay me what you owe and replenish your retainer.

Yup.

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Is this were we ask a lawyer?

 

An ifriend of mine passed away in July.  Is there any way I can get any details other then the online Obit. I'm also interested in finding out if he had a will. 

edit to add  He lived in Cumming, GA

 

TIA

 

 

Edited by E Street Brat

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6 minutes ago, E Street Brat said:

Is this were we ask a lawyer?

 

An ifriend of mine passed away in July.  Is there any way I can get any details other then the online Obit. I'm also interested in finding out if he had a will. 

edit to add  He lived in Cumming, GA

 

TIA

 

 

You can run a search on probate court documents and see what they have.  Usually run by the county.

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That’s funny. And there’s a clients acting like babies joke to be made here.

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Just don’t know why we do this for a living. That’s all. 

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anything illegal about digging through your girlfriend's email without her knowing?

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On ‎9‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 9:18 PM, Otis said:

Just don’t know why we do this for a living. That’s all. 

Because we devoted too much time and energy to getting laid to seriously contemplate med school.

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Sorry to come in here but I thought this was the right place for a solid answer. What’s the protocol for complaining about my billing?  I just got an outrageous bill for the last month’s legal service. Things like billing 30 minutes to send me a one line email. 

Do I go to my attorney?  Accounts receivable? 

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16 minutes ago, Nick Vermeil said:

Sorry to come in here but I thought this was the right place for a solid answer. What’s the protocol for complaining about my billing?  I just got an outrageous bill for the last month’s legal service. Things like billing 30 minutes to send me a one line email. 

Do I go to my attorney?  Accounts receivable? 

Definitely not accounting. Depending on the nature of your relationship with the firm, the size of the bill and the status of the matter they’re working on, it should either be a phone call or a face to face meeting with your relationship partner. 

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11 hours ago, Nick Vermeil said:

Sorry to come in here but I thought this was the right place for a solid answer. What’s the protocol for complaining about my billing?  I just got an outrageous bill for the last month’s legal service. Things like billing 30 minutes to send me a one line email. 

Do I go to my attorney?  Accounts receivable? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikBZK-sG2A8

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New Jersey has very specific billing dispute rules.

Beyond that, call the attorney who is your contact and tell him/her. 

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A couple tips for young guys who learned stupid old school crap from old guys:

Never put garbage like, "further affiant sayeth naught" in your documents.  It sounds stupid because it is stupid.  I still see stuff like this all the time, including earlier today. "Hereinbefore" "The Undersigned"  "The above-captioned" etc. etc. - don't ever put your name on anything that has crap like this in it.

You don't have to say "strike that" every time you misspeak. Nothing gets stricken anyway, and you just sound stupid, especially if you're speaking in the hallway outside the courtroom and not even on the fk'n record.

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1 minute ago, CletiusMaximus said:

A couple tips for young guys who learned stupid old school crap from old guys:

Never put garbage like, "further affiant sayeth naught" in your documents.  It sounds stupid because it is stupid.  I still see stuff like this all the time, including earlier today. "Hereinbefore" "The Undersigned"  "The above-captioned" etc. etc. - don't ever put your name on anything that has crap like this in it.

You don't have to say "strike that" every time you misspeak. Nothing gets stricken anyway, and you just sound stupid, especially if you're speaking in the hallway outside the courtroom and not even on the fk'n record.

Let’s strike this aforementioned statement. 

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Hello Everyone, My name is L5UT1ger and I am a lawyer.

Well, not really. Really im a lazy mofo who has a joke of a job being an appellate judge's "research attorney." Ok, yall got me. Im a ####### law clerk. I practiced PI for a whopping 4 years in the big city and hated it.  I moved home for this job and its paying me fine. No where near like successful lawyers here, but better than the crappy ones.  Like you would imagine, everyone says to stay at this job since its so easy and stress free.  Because of the time job #1 allows, I have a second job. My second job is developing low income housing in my poor, rural community. It makes a few fun pay days every year or so, but, much like clerking, it also is light duty.

I recently took up a third job and am regretting it right away. The mayor selected me to run a youth athletics facility.  It pays 20K a year and is part time. I took the job because i love coaching my kids and the facility was run terribly for years.  I have run a couple youth leagues and they took up more time than my two jobs combined.  I figured i will fix the place up nice and have it run well, plus i will actually get paid for my time unlike when I was running the local leagues.

I can do it. I have begun the process.  Here is what i am regretting: this third job is taking 10x more effort than the other two combined.  I am having to deal with "bosses" that are not intelligent people.  When running the leagues, I had very little interaction with these people in a setting where one is telling the other what to do.  They were collegues. Now, its different. I am hopeful that i hate this job because its new, and like all new things for me, I have to adjust and get my footing before feeling comfortable. Until then, im miserable.  I feel like i cant just quit this third job. I got the job over 15+ local people that applied. I will be a failure if I do quit it. I felt like quitting other times at other things when they were new, but eventually grew to enjoy them. I am hopeful this happens here.

Ignore the above for this tidbit that applies to lawyers, generally.  You cant have a conversation with anyone about anything wherein you are correct about anything. If you are, you get hit with "I should have know better than disagreeing with a ####### lawyer." The people im dealing with cannot have a conversation where ideas are exchanged. I watch them and the winner of debates is who screams loudest. They all have this transparent agenda. None listen to try and understand and find a solution to an issue. Instead they listen to wait their turn to reply louder and call the other person an idiot. Its infuriating.

I needed to vent and didnt quite know where to go. I hope this thread is an ok place to do it. Glllll peas!

 

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On 10/17/2018 at 1:46 PM, CletiusMaximus said:

A couple tips for young guys who learned stupid old school crap from old guys:

Never put garbage like, "further affiant sayeth naught" in your documents.  It sounds stupid because it is stupid.  I still see stuff like this all the time, including earlier today. "Hereinbefore" "The Undersigned"  "The above-captioned" etc. etc. - don't ever put your name on anything that has crap like this in it.

You don't have to say "strike that" every time you misspeak. Nothing gets stricken anyway, and you just sound stupid, especially if you're speaking in the hallway outside the courtroom and not even on the fk'n record.

Amen. Some of my favorites here. 

Speak english. Short and clear as possible. Less words. Short words. If you are trying to impress people you’ll sound like an a_**hole. 

And strike that always drove me nuts. Especially in depositions. Nothing gets struck. That ####fty half question still appears in the transcript and looks like crap. Say “withdrawn,” and start over. 

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I’m about a month away from taking over as head of a Biglaw practice group of over 50 lawyers. And I don’t know wtf I’m doing. 

K thx bai 

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11 hours ago, Otis said:

I’m about a month away from taking over as head of a Biglaw practice group of over 50 lawyers. And I don’t know wtf I’m doing. 

K thx bai 

Congrats.  Your career has progressed nicely.  You must be producing results.  BTW, this is fate's payback.  Now you will have to deal with young versions or yourself.  Remember those times when one comes in maybe slightly challenged for that day due to nocturnal recreational activities.

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Client - Hey, we've got a problem. Please write a letter.

Me - Sure (send draft to client)

Client - looks great, thanks.

Client's clueless in-house lawyer - Hey, check out my completely irrelevant and contradictory revisions that make no sense, including obviously empty threats that will only confuse and antagonize the situation.

Me - Yeah, um, sure. Looks great.  Let me know how he responds.

In house guy - We think its better coming from you on your letterhead.

Me - Sure. [delete stupid crap written by in-house dork and send my letter]

Client - looks great, thanks.

In house guy - [passive-aggressive whiny tone] did you attach the wrong version of the letter?

Me - No, sent the right letter.

In house guy - :hot: [BS passive-aggressive whiny stuff about the tone of the letter, missing his important revisions]

Client - [busy, trusts me] Uh, CM, do you want to correct the letter and re-send?

Me - No, sent the right letter.

Client - great, thanks.

In house guy - Should we set up a conf call?

Me - No need, I'll let you know when I hear back.

In house guy - [passive aggressive BS about tone, what he wanted to accomplish, etc - complete horse####.] Let's have a call Monday to discuss what we need to do.

Me - I hate this job.

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Eesh. Pretty sure that’s not how you’re supposed to handle that one. 

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On 10/15/2018 at 9:48 PM, CletiusMaximus said:
On 10/15/2018 at 9:29 PM, Nick Vermeil said:

Sorry to come in here but I thought this was the right place for a solid answer. What’s the protocol for complaining about my billing?  I just got an outrageous bill for the last month’s legal service. Things like billing 30 minutes to send me a one line email. 

Do I go to my attorney?  Accounts receivable? 

Definitely not accounting. Depending on the nature of your relationship with the firm, the size of the bill and the status of the matter they’re working on, it should either be a phone call or a face to face meeting with your relationship partner. 

 

just so us non-laywers are clear on this... you want him to set up more minutes and words on a call or have a meeting with the firm that charges by the word on emails, to discuss billing? 

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1 hour ago, El Floppo said:

 

just so us non-laywers are clear on this... you want him to set up more minutes and words on a call or have a meeting with the firm that charges by the word on emails, to discuss billing? 

If his lawyer bills him for a time spent discussing the firm's bill, he's got to be fired immediately.

 

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On 10/15/2018 at 6:29 PM, Nick Vermeil said:

Sorry to come in here but I thought this was the right place for a solid answer. What’s the protocol for complaining about my billing?  I just got an outrageous bill for the last month’s legal service. Things like billing 30 minutes to send me a one line email. 

Do I go to my attorney?  Accounts receivable? 

Go to your attorney.   In the rare case where a client has complained about their bill, I will usually discount it or write it off entirely, then fire them as a client.

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1 hour ago, -fish- said:

Go to your attorney.   In the rare case where a client has complained about their bill, I will usually discount it or write it off entirely, then fire them as a client.

Nick can attest that clients take it as a given that they're going to complain about architect/designer bills. Like at a flea market- they'd be doing it wrong if they paid in full.

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On 10/18/2018 at 9:11 PM, Otis said:

Amen. Some of my favorites here. 

Speak english. Short and clear as possible. Less words. Short words. If you are trying to impress people you’ll sound like an a_**hole. 

And strike that always drove me nuts. Especially in depositions. Nothing gets struck. That ####fty half question still appears in the transcript and looks like crap. Say “withdrawn,” and start over. 

They don't teach how to take a deposition in law school, and it really shows.  I can't tell you how many depos I've been in where almost every question starts with some qualifier like "to the best of your knowledge," or "if you know."  Never understood why you would immediately give the deponent an out.  You might as well just lead them right to "I don't remember/know."  Just ask the damn question and let them qualify it if they need to.

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3 hours ago, -fish- said:

Go to your attorney.   In the rare case where a client has complained about their bill, I will usually discount it or write it off entirely, then fire them as a client.

I've been dealing with some crazy expensive attorneys for 25 years now and have complained about the billing maybe twice.  But this last bill was nuts where I was getting 30 minute entries for the junior attorney to send me emails that read "Did you have a chance to review the document?  Let me know!"  And my new boss is tight as drum.  

So I kicked it back to the partner and asked him to review the invoice as it seemed excessive.  I'll see what he says.  

 

 

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