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The Lawyer Thread Where We Stop Ruining Other Threads (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter Henry Ford
- Start date
Henry Ford
Footballguy
5 max per twelve months. If I were a Mississippi attorney already, I'd be filing a dozen next week.
Thorn
Footballguy
And I assume no reciprocity since it's a common law state?
I guess if I were in your shoes I would go for it. Practices naturally change over time, if these dry up I bet you find something else. And why not win some satisfying cases while you can?
Ned Ryerson
Footballguy
As a general rule, fee-shifting with respect to referrals is not permitted in the state of NY. This is generally speaking thought of as the "no referral fee" rule.
What say the board about this scenario.
We are looking into buying a sole practitioner's practice. For the past 6 years, he has been sharing office space and listed as “of counsel" on our stationery, but generally speaking, does his own thing with his own clients.
We have drafted an agreement whereby he tells his clients that effective a certain date, that the work he previously handled will now be handled by our firm, unless the client specifically advises to the contrary. Under this arrangement he will be paid a certain percentage for the work performed for these clients going forward (we are in the intellectual property business, so there will presumably be ongoing and maintenance work) for a fixed period of time after the execution of the agreement. During this time period he will be listed as "of counsel" to the firm and will be available for consultation as needed, although I will be doing the work.
The gentleman who is retiring has indicated that in the event that he dies during the fixed period where we will be paying him for work performed for his clients, that his heirs be paid the agreed upon percentage. Is this ethical? My initial thought was no because the argument upon which we were agreeing to pay him a certain share was predicated on his “of counsel” status making him available for consultation, if needed. If he is dead, he obviously can no longer be of counsel, nor available for consultation. As a result, would the continued payment to his heirs act as unethical fee shifting to a party not performing work?
An obviously solution would be to just cut the guy a check in advance, but I do not perceive that this option would be desirable to either party for a variety of reasons (we would be guessing low on future billables, and further, we would not want to write a speculative big check).
Any thoughts?
What say the board about this scenario.
We are looking into buying a sole practitioner's practice. For the past 6 years, he has been sharing office space and listed as “of counsel" on our stationery, but generally speaking, does his own thing with his own clients.
We have drafted an agreement whereby he tells his clients that effective a certain date, that the work he previously handled will now be handled by our firm, unless the client specifically advises to the contrary. Under this arrangement he will be paid a certain percentage for the work performed for these clients going forward (we are in the intellectual property business, so there will presumably be ongoing and maintenance work) for a fixed period of time after the execution of the agreement. During this time period he will be listed as "of counsel" to the firm and will be available for consultation as needed, although I will be doing the work.
The gentleman who is retiring has indicated that in the event that he dies during the fixed period where we will be paying him for work performed for his clients, that his heirs be paid the agreed upon percentage. Is this ethical? My initial thought was no because the argument upon which we were agreeing to pay him a certain share was predicated on his “of counsel” status making him available for consultation, if needed. If he is dead, he obviously can no longer be of counsel, nor available for consultation. As a result, would the continued payment to his heirs act as unethical fee shifting to a party not performing work?
An obviously solution would be to just cut the guy a check in advance, but I do not perceive that this option would be desirable to either party for a variety of reasons (we would be guessing low on future billables, and further, we would not want to write a speculative big check).
Any thoughts?
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Instinctive
Footballguy
Had that case in our LRW curriculum. No other thoughts, just decided to share.
krista4
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Way past. Now imagine that DSS had taken a second kid from the mother and handed the kid directly over to the father, despite the previous kid being beaten to death. Or to a foster family run by a father being currently prosecuted for child rape. Or just lost track and has no idea where the child was placed.
Henry Ford
Footballguy
It would probably be 5-6 years' worth of dozens of cases - I'd still keep practicing in Louisiana, but it would be much more than dabbling.wdcrob said:
Henry Ford
Footballguy
True story - another attorney in my office (which is who I use for pro hac work in Mississippi) is admitted to the bar because he had a young associate who was nervous about taking the Mississippi bar about 20 years ago. So he drove the kid over, locked them both in a hotel room for a weekend with Barbri books, and took the Mississippi bar that Monday, just as a show of solidarity.
He passed, so he's been admitted in Mississippi ever since. Said it was a joke compared to Louisiana.
njherdfan
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Opposing counsel on my test case has no idea about all this, and recently said "I can't wait until this ####ing case is over. I hate this ####ing case."
Bad news, big guy...
NCCommish
Footballguy
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Henry - do it. And don't look back. I know you've posted about a pro-bono thing that recognized you. You obviously have the heart to try to help people that really need help and not just do this job for the money. If there is a need somewhere that you are capable of handling then do it. And don't look back. It sounds like what you are envisioning isn't just going to help your client(s) but might in the end help thousands more that you don't even know about. That is what us religious people call a "good thing." Do the good thing.
Aerial Assault
Footballguy
Yeah, I thought the same. I was also amused by the fact that the author seems to be someone who travels around giving lectures and speeches about this topic, so ironically, I'm not sure she is the best person to opine on how hard it is to be a lawyer.Christo said:
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Henry Ford
Footballguy
Is there anything more annoying in the law than having to sit around and wait for a medical review panel decision? WE KNOW YOU WILL DECIDE THERE WAS NO MALPRACTICE, JUST LET ME GO HOME.
Zow
Footballguy
I can tell you about the multiple criminal trial that I am sitting in on as advisory counsel that's currently going on. I'd put that up there.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
For the same client I am "fighting" with:
Wells Fargo
Department of Veterans Affiars
Social Security Administration
Internal Revenue Service
Each of them screwed something up. Each of them is costing my client dearly as a result. Each of them couldn't care any less if they tried. Dealing with just one of them requires a level a patience and internal humor that I simply do not have without my buddy Jack hanging out with me. Given that my profession requires me to not be drunk at work, that isn't an option.
This is absolutely going to be a hate my job type of day. I might post stories of humor an anguish as a result....
Wells Fargo
Department of Veterans Affiars
Social Security Administration
Internal Revenue Service
Each of them screwed something up. Each of them is costing my client dearly as a result. Each of them couldn't care any less if they tried. Dealing with just one of them requires a level a patience and internal humor that I simply do not have without my buddy Jack hanging out with me. Given that my profession requires me to not be drunk at work, that isn't an option.
This is absolutely going to be a hate my job type of day. I might post stories of humor an anguish as a result....
NCCommish
Footballguy
Otis
Footballguy
I finally argued a case that was press-interesting enough for there to be an artist sketch of me arguing in court next to my client. It's pretty cool. I look about 10 years older but 30lbs lighter. I'll take it 
This job grinds a whole lot, but it has been a kick-### year for sure.
This job grinds a whole lot, but it has been a kick-### year for sure.
She probably was drawing you without the aid of one of those circus mirrors you have in your bathroom.I finally argued a case that was press-interesting enough for there to be an artist sketch of me arguing in court next to my client. It's pretty cool. I look about 10 years older but 30lbs lighter. I'll take it
This job grinds a whole lot, but it has been a kick-### year for sure.
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
[icon]
Insoxicated
Looking for feedback on my options here.... in the interest of brevity I'll provide a quick hit-list of facts and can flesh out as needed.
BACKGROUND:
• Purchased 2010 Hyundai Genesis Jan '15
• Couple instances of brake pedal going to floor briefly.
• Last Wed, it goes to floor and nearly causes me to rear-end someone.
• Quick search indicates Recall on brake fluid. Consumers press on the actual issue (corrosion of brake control unit due to incompatible fluid), Hyundai is slow to react and fined by the government. They eventually agree to "inspect the HECU" while replacing the fluid.
• Common sense indicates once the brakes have begun failing, corrosion has occurred. Swapping fluid may halt further corrosion, but does not repair that which exists.
• Many online forums have threads tracking instances... it's common. It's intermittent at first then increasing in severity until the unit fails completely.
• Replacement cost of the unit, with labor, runs $2-3k
MY EXPERIENCE:
• Car dropped at dealer Wed. They take a couple days to perform service. I repeatedly state I want the ECU replaced. They agree to (nonbinding, I'm aware) repeatedly.
• Upon Pickup.... ECU not replaced. It passed some test (duh, it's an intermittent prob) so it can't be replaced without Hyundai signing off.
• I file NHTSA report on complaint and share report # with tech guy who shares it with hyundai. No luck.
• I let them keep car over holiday weekend to attempt to replicate the problem. No luck (again, intermittent problem).
• Hyundai corporate calls me and tells me to pound sand, nothing they will do.
I'm obviously NOT comfortable signing anything that absolves them of any liability for repair or consequences of failure. I'm guessing signing off on the recall work being performed will do just that.
What options, if any, do I have here?
BACKGROUND:
• Purchased 2010 Hyundai Genesis Jan '15
• Couple instances of brake pedal going to floor briefly.
• Last Wed, it goes to floor and nearly causes me to rear-end someone.
• Quick search indicates Recall on brake fluid. Consumers press on the actual issue (corrosion of brake control unit due to incompatible fluid), Hyundai is slow to react and fined by the government. They eventually agree to "inspect the HECU" while replacing the fluid.
• Common sense indicates once the brakes have begun failing, corrosion has occurred. Swapping fluid may halt further corrosion, but does not repair that which exists.
• Many online forums have threads tracking instances... it's common. It's intermittent at first then increasing in severity until the unit fails completely.
• Replacement cost of the unit, with labor, runs $2-3k
MY EXPERIENCE:
• Car dropped at dealer Wed. They take a couple days to perform service. I repeatedly state I want the ECU replaced. They agree to (nonbinding, I'm aware) repeatedly.
• Upon Pickup.... ECU not replaced. It passed some test (duh, it's an intermittent prob) so it can't be replaced without Hyundai signing off.
• I file NHTSA report on complaint and share report # with tech guy who shares it with hyundai. No luck.
• I let them keep car over holiday weekend to attempt to replicate the problem. No luck (again, intermittent problem).
• Hyundai corporate calls me and tells me to pound sand, nothing they will do.
I'm obviously NOT comfortable signing anything that absolves them of any liability for repair or consequences of failure. I'm guessing signing off on the recall work being performed will do just that.
What options, if any, do I have here?
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Insoxicated
LOVE LOVE LOVE The car. HATE how they're handling this issue.
IMO if the car hasn't exhibited the failure yet and you perform the recall service, I'm guessing it will never exhibit the issue (no corrosion). From what I understand, any car manufactured after July 2010 should have a new HECU that no longer is sensitive to the DOT3 fluid and shouldn't have any issues.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Go stand in their showroom on a busy day and tell everyone who walks in what happened. Dealership sold him a car that had been in the canal. It caught fire as we were leaving the dealership. They said he was stuck because he had driven the car off the lot. I said OK. I stood at the door of their showroom and told people what happened. An hour later we were driving away in a different car.
[icon]
Insoxicated
Sadly I didn't buy the car from them. The dealership I did buy it from (used) is far away. These guys were just the dealership whith whom Hyundai made an appointment for me when I called.
Also, it seems the dealership won't be reimbursed by Hyundai for this repair if they do it.... which means they'll be eating the cost. From what I've read, that's true. Though they did test drive it, meaning if they stretched the truth to say the vehicle presented brake softness/failure, Hyundai would have covered the repair.
Partially I'm nervous about the brakes failing again, but mainly I'm a little wary of signing anything showing this work as "complete" then having no recourse if this thing fails again/completely. Given the way they're handling this, I'd like to keep my legal options open vs Hyundai if this fails again and I run into someone.
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Zow
Footballguy
I just finished five days worth of being advisory counsel for a guy charged with ten varying counts of child molest. Obviously it was a slow train wreck and the guy represented himself horribly (I'm actually pretty confident I could have won his trial had he kept counsel), but from a psychological prospective it was absolutely fascinating to see somebody with these inclinations explain the behavior.
Buckfast 1
Footballguy
The BS tack on charges brought in an attempt to force a plea agreement is what I just can't tolerate about the criminal justice system in America. And that is coming from someone who used to work as a federal prosecutor at the U.S. Attorney's office. Also, someone who has had numerous BS charges brought against them to try to force a plea ageement (i.e., loitering, prowling, felony resisting arrest, etc.).
Zow
Footballguy
In short, there is some serious internal belief that they are some ultimate hero and savior for the children. In this particular case, there was a ton of blaming the victim's immediate family for not "helping" her, blaming the victim for eliciting the behavior, and a lot of irrelevant input describing all the wonderful things the offender did for the victim.
For example, in this trial when the defendant was testifying (which he did for six straight hours), he was explaining some irrelevant event where he tried to help this girl with her homework or something and she didn't want his help, and he literally fell to the ground sobbing and cried for several minutes. He also testified very descriptively and in great detail about his first time meeting the victim (e.g. he recalled which leg she crossed her legs with) and could recall exact dialogue and recited it in call and answer form. I'd note the facts of the case occurred way back in 2009. But the absolute conviction and belief this guy recounted the whole "story" convinced me that he really believed this fantasy. Others seem to exhibit this same tragic hero belief as well.
The sheer legal irony of the situation is that the state's case on its face was really incredibly weak. There was no corroborating physical or eyewitness evidence, disclosure was made pretty long after the fact, the victim made numerous inconsistent statements, and the victim initially testified on direct that she really didn't remember anything and the prosecutor had to prior it out of her by using some scratch notes the victim had written in 2009 to refresh her recollection. She also opened the door for some serious impeachment by making statements which were in direct contrast from recorded statements back in 2009. Yet the judge (who was the finder of fact in this case because the defendant's first decision as a pro se litigant was to waive a jury) ultimately found that the defendant's statements and mannerism in testifying were so far out there that it basically lent credence to the victim's testimony and firmly convinced him of guilt.
Zow
Footballguy
I liked the first six. These not so much save for the one about not being rich. Too many of my friends and family assume I'm absolutely loaded, even when I was a public defender making 50k/year and paying over a grand per month in student loans.
Instinctive
Footballguy
Zow
Footballguy
Yep.
I'd say there's the occasional legit time, usually with an officer who performed some smaller task on a case and genuinely forgot about something, whose memory literally needs and is "refreshed". But easily 9/10 "refreshing one's recollection" is used by the prosecutor to get a witness to parrot some damning evidence he said at a much earlier time or is used by the defense to impeach somebody with a prior statement. Of course I don't consider the latter to be a "load of crap".
Zow
Footballguy
You're telling me. I had to sit there for about thirty hours. It was like witnessing firsthand a slowly developing train wreck, knowing that you have the ability to possibility stop it, yet the passengers on the train won't let you on because they insist they can do it themselves.
Sure, but the other side is allowed to cross examine if there is an issue with the accuracy of the facts. Every time I've used it the fact at issue wasn't being contested. It was just a shaky witness. I've also had an opponent try to refresh his own witness' recollection and after reading the document she still stated she didn't remember.
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-fish-
Footballguy
The firm that I'm of counsel to is imploding. Coincidentally, I had an interview with another firm on Friday. Went 4 1/2 hours, and expect to get an offer this week. In the meantime, one of the guys in the firm that's falling apart is talking to me about the two of us starting up our own gig--which seems really attractive. He's a solid litigator, and if we both took all of our cases with us I think we could make a go of it and we have at least 1-2 cases that will pay pretty big in a year or so.
Scary, but unless the firm from Friday knocks my socks off, I'm pretty sure I'm taking the leap.
Scary, but unless the firm from Friday knocks my socks off, I'm pretty sure I'm taking the leap.
Todd Andrews
Footballguy
Good luck.
My progression after law school was small boutique to junior partner at big firm, then back to partner in small boutique, to finally cutting the strings and going full solo two years ago (I have some colleagues of counsel, etc.). Running the show is a lot of fun but a whole different set of problems.
Instinctive
Footballguy
Settled into a rhythm here in NYC, finally. Even managed to get work extended through September instead of the original early August end-date, which is awesome.
Would love to get a beer with (and for) any of the NYC lawyers who were so helpful throughout my application and job process in that other thread. If anyone wants to take me up on that, just shoot a PM my way. If not, just know that I appreciate it and enjoy a cold one in spirit as my thanks.
Would love to get a beer with (and for) any of the NYC lawyers who were so helpful throughout my application and job process in that other thread. If anyone wants to take me up on that, just shoot a PM my way. If not, just know that I appreciate it and enjoy a cold one in spirit as my thanks.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Best advocacy for Federal prisoner clemency petitions - Who takes these up, what groups?
randall146
Footballguy
Does the guy have 10+ years in already? If so try clemencyproject2014.org
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
I'm begging all of you to try to grab a pro bono case from your local offices if you can. The backlog here is insane and I'm guessing it is similar everywhere. There are thousands upon thousands of people that need help navigating the legal system that simply cannot afford to pay someone to help them.
Off my soapbox.
Off my soapbox.
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