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Jeremy Hill, RB (LVR) (2 Viewers)

Milkman said:
Hill has great hands. Looks very natural catching the ball. Hands catcher and turns up field quickly.
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After watching a few of his games I am going to have to disagree.

He drops several easy dump off passes that I have seen.

He also is really bad in pass protection. He fails to recognize the blitz multiple times and just gets beat on others he did recognize.

He is not shifty at all and does not create space or make defenders miss, this is why he lowers his head and bowls forward. If he has good blocking (he often did) he gets what is blocked and runs with power to get yards after contact.

I do not see Hill as a 3 down RB in the NFL. To me he is like Michael Bush with less passing game skills. Some folks really liked Michael Bush too.

 
Biabreakable said:
Milkman said:
Hill has great hands. Looks very natural catching the ball. Hands catcher and turns up field quickly.
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After watching a few of his games I am going to have to disagree.

He drops several easy dump off passes that I have seen.

He also is really bad in pass protection. He fails to recognize the blitz multiple times and just gets beat on others he did recognize.

He is not shifty at all and does not create space or make defenders miss, this is why he lowers his head and bowls forward. If he has good blocking (he often did) he gets what is blocked and runs with power to get yards after contact.

I do not see Hill as a 3 down RB in the NFL. To me he is like Michael Bush with less passing game skills. Some folks really liked Michael Bush too.
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I disagree with a lot of this. He is Lacy-like in how he creates space and makes people miss. For a back with his size and power--that's what you look for. He's not going to break ankles and take it to the house. He's going to set his defenders up to make difficult tackles, then break them or push forward for extra yardage that other backs can't get. He creates space yards down the field, rather than in a phone booth, so to speak. That's not a bad thing for a guy his size.

Also, his vision is very solid. I don't see him putting his head down unnecessarily. It's up and looking for yardage.

 
What about his pass protection Coop? There was a lot there I did not like at all. That is one of the main differences to me between Hyde and Hill is that Hyde is a better blocker and I think more likely to be a 3 down RB.

 
Biabreakable said:
What about his pass protection Coop? There was a lot there I did not like at all. That is one of the main differences to me between Hyde and Hill is that Hyde is a better blocker and I think more likely to be a 3 down RB.
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I don't pay attention to the boring parts. I take the pros word for it. I'm pretty lazy. :)

 
Rotoworld:

Bengals selected LSU RB Jeremy Hill with the No. 55 overall pick in the 2014 NFL draft.
Hill (6-foot 5/8, 233) spent two seasons as the Tigers' lead back, rushing for 2,156 yards and 28 TDs on 345 carries (6.25 YPC). He has size to stonewall linebackers and smaller defensive ends in pass protection, and soft hands despite only 26 career catches. Hill ran 4.66 with a 29-inch vertical and 9-foot-5 broad jump at the Combine. Although quick footed for his build, Hill runs with inconsistent physicality and is a straight-linish back who won't make NFL defenders miss. He has some potential to be a disappointment. This could end BenJarvus Green-Ellis' tenure in Cincinnati. The Bengals can save $2.5 million by cutting the "Law Firm." Hill will be the No. 2 or 3 back in Cincinnati, depending on what happens with BJGE.
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Jeremy Hill drafted 55th by Cincinnati BengalsBy Dan Hanzus

Around the League Writer

NEW YORK -- The Cincinnati Bengals will have a different look in their backfield this fall.

The Bengals selected LSU running back Jeremy Hill with the 55th overall pick in the 2014 NFL Draft on Friday night at Radio City Music Hall.

Hill was the Tigers' leading rusher in each of the past two seasons, averaging 6.25 yards per carry. He fumbled just once in 371 touches. A downhill runner who can bust through contact, Hill completes an intriguing thunder and lightning combination with second-year back Giovani Bernard.

This is the highest an LSU back has been drafted since Joseph Addai went 30th overall to the Indianapolis Colts in 2006.

Hill's arrival represents decidedly bad news for BenJarvus Green-Ellis. The veteran back, who averaged just 3.4 yards per carry in 16 starts last year, could find himself on the chopping block.

The latest "Around The League Podcast" provides instant reaction to all the wild happenings in the first round of the 2014 NFL Draft.
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Rotoworld:

The Bengals chose Jeremy Hill over Carlos Hyde because of Hill's experience in a pro-style offense and his ability to help in pass protection.
Bengals RBs coach Kyle Caskey criticized the "spread-out, zone-read option" offense Hyde ran at Ohio State as giving running backs "six-feet-wide holes to run through." Caskey said Hill did not get those large holes and was still able to be successful. Hill will look to unseat Benjarvus Green-Ellis as the short-yardage back in Cincinnati, and if successful would have some appeal in re-draft formats because of his 8+ touchdown upside.

Source: Cincinnati Enquirer
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Faust said:
Rotoworld:

The Bengals chose Jeremy Hill over Carlos Hyde because of Hill's experience in a pro-style offense and his ability to help in pass protection.

Bengals RBs coach Kyle Caskey criticized the "spread-out, zone-read option" offense Hyde ran at Ohio State as giving running backs "six-feet-wide holes to run through." Caskey said Hill did not get those large holes and was still able to be successful. Hill will look to unseat Benjarvus Green-Ellis as the short-yardage back in Cincinnati, and if successful would have some appeal in re-draft formats because of his 8+ touchdown upside.

Source: Cincinnati Enquirer
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I hate spread offenses. Makes it so tough to really evaluate these guys.
 
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Bad news for Gio. Bigger RBs generally are the type of backs that steal carries the most. Considering how talented Hill is - he is going to have an impact. I see Hill projected to have more carries and TDs over the next 3 years than Gio. I see Gio having more receptions and playing more on third down.

Splits-ville

 
Inside Slant: NFL Draft Day 2 matches

By Kevin Seifert | ESPN.com

Excerpt:

At first glance, it might be difficult to understand why the Cincinnati Bengals felt compelled to use a second-round pick on a running back for the second consecutive year. But LSU's Jeremy Hills, taken No. 55 overall, is a strong inside runner on a team that needs to improve in that area.

Last season, Hills averaged 7.9 yards per carry between the tackles, the highest figure in major college football. One in every five such attempts went for at least 10 yards. He also faced at least eight defenders in the box on 96 of 203 rushes last season. In those situations, he averaged 8.0 yards per rush (also a national high) and scored 15 touchdowns.

Neither Giovani Bernard (3.8 yards per carry) nor BenJarvus Green-Ellis (3.5) excelled in that area last season for the Bengals. Hills is a nice stylistic complement to Bernard, who has playmaking ability outside the tackles (4.94 yards per carry last season).
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Faust said:
Rotoworld:

The Bengals chose Jeremy Hill over Carlos Hyde because of Hill's experience in a pro-style offense and his ability to help in pass protection.
Bengals RBs coach Kyle Caskey criticized the "spread-out, zone-read option" offense Hyde ran at Ohio State as giving running backs "six-feet-wide holes to run through." Caskey said Hill did not get those large holes and was still able to be successful. Hill will look to unseat Benjarvus Green-Ellis as the short-yardage back in Cincinnati, and if successful would have some appeal in re-draft formats because of his 8+ touchdown upside.

Source: Cincinnati Enquirer
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I realize the coach is trying to talk up his guy, but Hill did not have large holes to run through? Lying season seems to still be here!

I think Hyde fits what SF likes to do in the read option but they have CK not Dalton. Makes more sense for them.

 
Biabreakable said:
Faust said:
Rotoworld:

The Bengals chose Jeremy Hill over Carlos Hyde because of Hill's experience in a pro-style offense and his ability to help in pass protection.

Bengals RBs coach Kyle Caskey criticized the "spread-out, zone-read option" offense Hyde ran at Ohio State as giving running backs "six-feet-wide holes to run through." Caskey said Hill did not get those large holes and was still able to be successful. Hill will look to unseat Benjarvus Green-Ellis as the short-yardage back in Cincinnati, and if successful would have some appeal in re-draft formats because of his 8+ touchdown upside.

Source: Cincinnati Enquirer
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I realize the coach is trying to talk up his guy, but Hill did not have large holes to run through? Lying season seems to still be here!

I think Hyde fits what SF likes to do in the read option but they have CK not Dalton. Makes more sense for them.
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Hill no doubt benefited from a strong oline at LSU and with that some gapping holes at times. Still, the spread is a totally different animal altogether and LSU played some teams that really challenged them up front. So there was a good bit of tape on him running thru tight windows. I don't think it's coaches speak. It doesn't mean he will be the better RB in the NFL either, though.
 
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Our (LSU's) offensive line was a lot better this past season than 2 seasons ago, but it wasn't elite. Like jurb is suggesting, Hill had to make his own yards on several of his carries. He's really good at picking through trash and pushing/falling forward for yards when the blocking is poor. A lot of his highlight runs involve a hole blasted through the inside of the defense but he was always a good bet to get positive yards/pick the best seam available when there wasn't much there, and I imagine this is something that Cincy liked about him. He's a pretty solid receiver but Bernard's a lot better, and I'm really not all that worried about this being a true timeshare where a significant portion of Bernard's receptions--the basis of his value in ppr leagues--go over to Hill. In short: I think Hill is good enough at things that complement Bernard to have a steady role in the offense, but not good enough at the things Bernard excels at to make this a true split.

 
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Biabreakable said:
Faust said:
Rotoworld:

The Bengals chose Jeremy Hill over Carlos Hyde because of Hill's experience in a pro-style offense and his ability to help in pass protection.
Bengals RBs coach Kyle Caskey criticized the "spread-out, zone-read option" offense Hyde ran at Ohio State as giving running backs "six-feet-wide holes to run through." Caskey said Hill did not get those large holes and was still able to be successful. Hill will look to unseat Benjarvus Green-Ellis as the short-yardage back in Cincinnati, and if successful would have some appeal in re-draft formats because of his 8+ touchdown upside.

Source: Cincinnati Enquirer
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I realize the coach is trying to talk up his guy, but Hill did not have large holes to run through? Lying season seems to still be here!

I think Hyde fits what SF likes to do in the read option but they have CK not Dalton. Makes more sense for them.
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2 games I watched of Hill, were vs A&M and vs Iowa in the bowl game.

Both games, the splits were so tight, even the announcer mentioned the splits less than 4 plays into the A&M game.

 
DAG said:
In short: I think Hill is good enough at things that complement Bernard to have a steady role in the offense, but not good enough at the things Bernard excels at to make this a true split.
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BJGE was good enough to make it a true split. I think Hill was drafted to take that over, in addition to improving the short-yardage game. Gio actually got a few Redzone touches last year, and I don't know if those hold up.

I think we'll have a Jackson/Spiller Thomas Jones/Charles split.

 
Concept Coop said:
DAG said:
In short: I think Hill is good enough at things that complement Bernard to have a steady role in the offense, but not good enough at the things Bernard excels at to make this a true split.
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BJGE was good enough to make it a true split. I think Hill was drafted to take that over, in addition to improving the short-yardage game. Gio actually got a few Redzone touches last year, and I don't know if those hold up.

I think we'll have a Jackson/Spiller Thomas Jones/Charles split.
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Maybe so. But Bernard was a rookie and most people are suggesting that there will be more carries to go around overall in Jackson's offense. Like I wrote in the Gio (who not 1.01?) thread, if Bernard and Hill start to split series and that involves Hill stealing 3rd down touches/receptions then yeah, I'll be a pretty depressed Gio owner. But I think if Bernard's carries stay relatively constant as compared to last year, with perhaps a slight uptick, and he retains his receiving role, that he's likely a top 10 ppr back and that's good enough for me.

 
DAG said:
Concept Coop said:
DAG said:
In short: I think Hill is good enough at things that complement Bernard to have a steady role in the offense, but not good enough at the things Bernard excels at to make this a true split.
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BJGE was good enough to make it a true split. I think Hill was drafted to take that over, in addition to improving the short-yardage game. Gio actually got a few Redzone touches last year, and I don't know if those hold up.

I think we'll have a Jackson/Spiller Thomas Jones/Charles split.
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Maybe so. But Bernard was a rookie and most people are suggesting that there will be more carries to go around overall in Jackson's offense. Like I wrote in the Gio (who not 1.01?) thread, if Bernard and Hill start to split series and that involves Hill stealing 3rd down touches/receptions then yeah, I'll be a pretty depressed Gio owner. But I think if Bernard's carries stay relatively constant as compared to last year, with perhaps a slight uptick, and he retains his receiving role, that he's likely a top 10 ppr back and that's good enough for me.
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Gio was RB16 in PPG last year. I agree that people should be just fine with a long window of low RB1 / high RB2 production out of their rookie 1st last year, but on the flip side, a good percentage of people seemingly had him penciled in for a major role increase -- and paid startup / trade prices for him building said role increase into the price. I'd guess those folks probably aren't too happy with Cinci adding Hill in the 2nd.

 
Coeur de Lion said:
DAG said:
Concept Coop said:
DAG said:
In short: I think Hill is good enough at things that complement Bernard to have a steady role in the offense, but not good enough at the things Bernard excels at to make this a true split.
Click to expand...
BJGE was good enough to make it a true split. I think Hill was drafted to take that over, in addition to improving the short-yardage game. Gio actually got a few Redzone touches last year, and I don't know if those hold up.

I think we'll have a Jackson/Spiller Thomas Jones/Charles split.
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Maybe so. But Bernard was a rookie and most people are suggesting that there will be more carries to go around overall in Jackson's offense. Like I wrote in the Gio (who not 1.01?) thread, if Bernard and Hill start to split series and that involves Hill stealing 3rd down touches/receptions then yeah, I'll be a pretty depressed Gio owner. But I think if Bernard's carries stay relatively constant as compared to last year, with perhaps a slight uptick, and he retains his receiving role, that he's likely a top 10 ppr back and that's good enough for me.
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Gio was RB16 in PPG last year. I agree that people should be just fine with a long window of low RB1 / high RB2 production out of their rookie 1st last year, but on the flip side, a good percentage of people seemingly had him penciled in for a major role increase -- and paid startup / trade prices for him building said role increase into the price. I'd guess those folks probably aren't too happy with Cinci adding Hill in the 2nd.
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Im not, i just traded Gio partly because of it. He was top 5 in most dynasty RB rankings. He may have a long career because of this but if he splits, he'll never be more than a 200 point back in my .5 ppr league. Thats not worth the price he's going for.

 
I don't understand why they insist on having backs with different skillsets and then only alternate series. BJGE/Gio would have made more sense if they brought in BJGE on short yardage downs/GLine and Gio on 3rd downs. Alternating series seems to make that a non-factor and I could see it being the same way with Hill/Gio. Who knows though, could have been a Gruden thing.

 
cheese said:
I don't understand why they insist on having backs with different skillsets and then only alternate series. BJGE/Gio would have made more sense if they brought in BJGE on short yardage downs/GLine and Gio on 3rd downs. Alternating series seems to make that a non-factor and I could see it being the same way with Hill/Gio. Who knows though, could have been a Gruden thing.
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Yeah that never made sense to me either. Give BJGE 0-20 and then Gio between the 20's but don't rotate.

 
I'm excited to see what Hill does this year. He could be the best back in the draft. Keyword "could".

 
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Let's remember who the coach is... Hue Jackson wants to run. Then run some more. Then finish off by running some more after that.

His 2011 Raiders (only season as HC) were 7th in the league in rushing attempts with 466.

-- McFadden (predictably) got hurt only 2 carries into his 7th game -- in the first six he averaged 18.5 carries per game and 3 receptions per game -- 21.5 touches.

-- Michael Bush averaged 7 carries per game in those first 6 with an average of 1 reception per game -- roughly 8 touches per

-- In those first 6 games the Raiders rushed (not passed to the RBs, simply RAN) 39, 30, 32, 27, 22, and 40(!) times -- an average of 31.7 runs per game.

Using that as the blueprint, and Gio's extremely effective deployment last year never topping 15 carries in a game -- all while his caddy was barely averaging over 3 YPC -- why can't Hill see 15-18 carries per week with Gio getting another 12-15 plus receptions?

Seems pretty clear what Hue wants: 15-20 carries/touches for Hill with another 15-20 touches for Gio (12-15 carries with 3-5 receptions).

 
Coeur de Lion said:
DAG said:
Concept Coop said:
DAG said:
In short: I think Hill is good enough at things that complement Bernard to have a steady role in the offense, but not good enough at the things Bernard excels at to make this a true split.
Click to expand...
BJGE was good enough to make it a true split. I think Hill was drafted to take that over, in addition to improving the short-yardage game. Gio actually got a few Redzone touches last year, and I don't know if those hold up.

I think we'll have a Jackson/Spiller Thomas Jones/Charles split.
Click to expand...
Maybe so. But Bernard was a rookie and most people are suggesting that there will be more carries to go around overall in Jackson's offense. Like I wrote in the Gio (who not 1.01?) thread, if Bernard and Hill start to split series and that involves Hill stealing 3rd down touches/receptions then yeah, I'll be a pretty depressed Gio owner. But I think if Bernard's carries stay relatively constant as compared to last year, with perhaps a slight uptick, and he retains his receiving role, that he's likely a top 10 ppr back and that's good enough for me.
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Gio was RB16 in PPG last year. I agree that people should be just fine with a long window of low RB1 / high RB2 production out of their rookie 1st last year, but on the flip side, a good percentage of people seemingly had him penciled in for a major role increase -- and paid startup / trade prices for him building said role increase into the price. I'd guess those folks probably aren't too happy with Cinci adding Hill in the 2nd.
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Yeah, I agree with that. I traded for Gio this offseason but I didn't pay a premium price, so that may have to do with the evenness of my reaction. But I'm also thinking through my rationale for wanting a guy like Gio in ppr dynasty leagues. I'm certainly disappointed in the Hill pick. But there aren't going to be many RBs left that this isn't going to happen to, and to think any of the guys on our rosters are immune is probably naive at this point. Even an uber stud like McCoy has Sproles coming on board, for example. To me a top dynasty RB in the present context is a guy who has a shot (because of specific skill set and level of talent) at maintaining top 10 production despite the inevitable changes that come season to season with new draftees and free agents.

 
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DAG said:
Coeur de Lion said:
DAG said:
Concept Coop said:
DAG said:
In short: I think Hill is good enough at things that complement Bernard to have a steady role in the offense, but not good enough at the things Bernard excels at to make this a true split.
Click to expand...
BJGE was good enough to make it a true split. I think Hill was drafted to take that over, in addition to improving the short-yardage game. Gio actually got a few Redzone touches last year, and I don't know if those hold up.

I think we'll have a Jackson/Spiller Thomas Jones/Charles split.
Click to expand...
Maybe so. But Bernard was a rookie and most people are suggesting that there will be more carries to go around overall in Jackson's offense. Like I wrote in the Gio (who not 1.01?) thread, if Bernard and Hill start to split series and that involves Hill stealing 3rd down touches/receptions then yeah, I'll be a pretty depressed Gio owner. But I think if Bernard's carries stay relatively constant as compared to last year, with perhaps a slight uptick, and he retains his receiving role, that he's likely a top 10 ppr back and that's good enough for me.
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Gio was RB16 in PPG last year. I agree that people should be just fine with a long window of low RB1 / high RB2 production out of their rookie 1st last year, but on the flip side, a good percentage of people seemingly had him penciled in for a major role increase -- and paid startup / trade prices for him building said role increase into the price. I'd guess those folks probably aren't too happy with Cinci adding Hill in the 2nd.
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Yeah, I agree with that. I traded for Gio this offseason but I didn't pay a premium price, so that may have to do with the evenness of my reaction. But I'm also thinking through my rationale for wanting a guy like Gio in ppr dynasty leagues. I'm certainly disappointed in the Hill pick. But there aren't going to be many RBs left that this isn't going to happen to, and to think any of the guys on our rosters are immune is probably naive at this point. Even an uber stud like McCoy has Sproles coming on board, for example. To me a top dynasty RB in the present context is a guy who has a shot (because of specific skill set and level of talent) at maintaining top 10 production despite the inevitable changes that come season to season with new draftees and free agents.
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I'm personally going in the opposite direction. Given the 1st round startup cost (or close to it) that guys like Gio and Bell are commanding, I'm not interested in them at all -- I'm not a fan of paying for the tail end of a run of likely mediocre (relative to the true difference makers at RB) production. I'd rather invest a touch more in an elite young WR, or less in an older RB who is more likely to give short window high end production (depending on team makeup of course). Whichever way any of us attack the problem individually, the current dynasty RB landscape makes for some interesting decisions on strategy. Good discussion.

 
Coeur de Lion said:
DAG said:
Coeur de Lion said:
DAG said:
Concept Coop said:
DAG said:
In short: I think Hill is good enough at things that complement Bernard to have a steady role in the offense, but not good enough at the things Bernard excels at to make this a true split.
Click to expand...
BJGE was good enough to make it a true split. I think Hill was drafted to take that over, in addition to improving the short-yardage game. Gio actually got a few Redzone touches last year, and I don't know if those hold up.

I think we'll have a Jackson/Spiller Thomas Jones/Charles split.
Click to expand...
Maybe so. But Bernard was a rookie and most people are suggesting that there will be more carries to go around overall in Jackson's offense. Like I wrote in the Gio (who not 1.01?) thread, if Bernard and Hill start to split series and that involves Hill stealing 3rd down touches/receptions then yeah, I'll be a pretty depressed Gio owner. But I think if Bernard's carries stay relatively constant as compared to last year, with perhaps a slight uptick, and he retains his receiving role, that he's likely a top 10 ppr back and that's good enough for me.
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Gio was RB16 in PPG last year. I agree that people should be just fine with a long window of low RB1 / high RB2 production out of their rookie 1st last year, but on the flip side, a good percentage of people seemingly had him penciled in for a major role increase -- and paid startup / trade prices for him building said role increase into the price. I'd guess those folks probably aren't too happy with Cinci adding Hill in the 2nd.
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Yeah, I agree with that. I traded for Gio this offseason but I didn't pay a premium price, so that may have to do with the evenness of my reaction. But I'm also thinking through my rationale for wanting a guy like Gio in ppr dynasty leagues. I'm certainly disappointed in the Hill pick. But there aren't going to be many RBs left that this isn't going to happen to, and to think any of the guys on our rosters are immune is probably naive at this point. Even an uber stud like McCoy has Sproles coming on board, for example. To me a top dynasty RB in the present context is a guy who has a shot (because of specific skill set and level of talent) at maintaining top 10 production despite the inevitable changes that come season to season with new draftees and free agents.
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I'm personally going in the opposite direction. Given the 1st round startup cost (or close to it) that guys like Gio and Bell are commanding, I'm not interested in them at all -- I'm not a fan of paying for the tail end of a run of likely mediocre (relative to the true difference makers at RB) production. I'd rather invest a touch more in an elite young WR, or less in an older RB who is more likely to give short window high end production (depending on team makeup of course). Whichever way any of us attack the problem individually, the current dynasty RB landscape makes for some interesting decisions on strategy. Good discussion.
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It sounds like we're approaching things similarly. Fortunately I play in a couple of superflexes so I've gotten used to building at QB and WR and just limping along at RB and having good success that way. I agree on not paying anything in the neighborhood of 1st round startup value for guys like Gio or Bell unless I was in a system that really favored running backs, and I don't play in any systems like that. I wouldn't have even ended up with Gio if I didn't get a good deal on him.

 
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DAG said:
Our (LSU's) offensive line was a lot better this past season than 2 seasons ago, but it wasn't elite. Like jurb is suggesting, Hill had to make his own yards on several of his carries. He's really good at picking through trash and pushing/falling forward for yards when the blocking is poor. A lot of his highlight runs involve a hole blasted through the inside of the defense but he was always a good bet to get positive yards/pick the best seam available when there wasn't much there, and I imagine this is something that Cincy liked about him. He's a pretty solid receiver but Bernard's a lot better, and I'm really not all that worried about this being a true timeshare where a significant portion of Bernard's receptions--the basis of his value in ppr leagues--go over to Hill. In short: I think Hill is good enough at things that complement Bernard to have a steady role in the offense, but not good enough at the things Bernard excels at to make this a true split.
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I think the best game I saw from Hill was against the Gators and I think he did well there.

I appreciate your perspective on that however my perspective is that LSU has had the most NFL draft picks of any college team for past 2 seasons in a row and has sent the most players to the NFL over the past decade. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2052345-college-football-programs-that-developed-most-nfl-draft-picks-over-last-10-years

LSU is a big bully in college football so to try to suggest that Hyde had more favorable blocking than Hill? I cannot really agree with that.

Here is an article detailing how 2 freshman linemen really helped LSU's Oline improve last season - http://espn.go.com/colleges/lsu/football/story/_/id/8604906/lsu-tigers-young-offensive-line-improving-strong-future

JFS171 - I enjoyed your post about Hue Jackson with the Raiders as I had forgotten he was the coach when they brough Michael Bush there. When I made comparison between Hill and Bush I didn't mean that in a good way but now realizing Jackson worked with Bush before, it makes even more sense. Hill does look more powerful than Bush did I think, but not as good in pass protection.

I am not sure how this time share will end up being given out or how soon Hill replaces the law firm. It does not help Gio though and I realize that some of the things I do not like about Hill are more about his playing style rather than the quality of the prospect.

I think Hyde is a better overall player than Hill is, particularly in the passing game. But Hill is likely closer to Hyde than I want to give him credit for.

 
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Yeah, Hill was definitely the beneficiary of the best situation for a RB at LSU in a few years: that was the first good passing offense we've had in quite a while, and the line played well even though we had some young guys starting.

FWIW I liked Hyde a little better as prospect pre-draft for the same reason (receiving ability) and I like him a lot better after the draft. For me Hyde went to the best situation in terms of fit and the quality of the team.

 
JFS171 said:
Let's remember who the coach is... Hue Jackson wants to run. Then run some more. Then finish off by running some more after that.

His 2011 Raiders (only season as HC) were 7th in the league in rushing attempts with 466.

-- McFadden (predictably) got hurt only 2 carries into his 7th game -- in the first six he averaged 18.5 carries per game and 3 receptions per game -- 21.5 touches.

-- Michael Bush averaged 7 carries per game in those first 6 with an average of 1 reception per game -- roughly 8 touches per

-- In those first 6 games the Raiders rushed (not passed to the RBs, simply RAN) 39, 30, 32, 27, 22, and 40(!) times -- an average of 31.7 runs per game.

Using that as the blueprint, and Gio's extremely effective deployment last year never topping 15 carries in a game -- all while his caddy was barely averaging over 3 YPC -- why can't Hill see 15-18 carries per week with Gio getting another 12-15 plus receptions?

Seems pretty clear what Hue wants: 15-20 carries/touches for Hill with another 15-20 touches for Gio (12-15 carries with 3-5 receptions).
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Interesting article on ESPN about Hue Jackson's usage of RBs...

What I have perhaps underrated in the above post is his willingness to throw the ball to the RBs...

The article points out that in Jackson's two years as either OC or HC of Oakland, his RBs combined for 90 receptions (2010) and 83 receptions (2011). So while I believe Hill was brought in to replace BJGE as that two down thumper between the tackles, we may all be underestimating his potential involvement in the passing game. While some above have stated he misses blocks in pass pro and has dropped some passes, to me he seems farther along in the receiving aspects of the game than you might expect from a between the tackles beast. He's not Andre Williams when it comes to catching passes...

Given Hue's system averaged ~87 receptions for his backs per year, and there's not a lot more Gio can do than his 2012 total of 63 already, I don't think it's completely out of the question for Hill to catch 2-3 passes per game, giving him ~30ish on the season.

A 270+ touch (15 carries/gm; 2 receptions/gm) season isn't out of the question, without altering Gio's role from 2013 one iota. I also think it's potentially fair to question whether Gio would have reached 63 receptions had there been another RB for Hue to throw it to -- BJGE was completely worthless in the passing game. Gio should still reach 50, but 30-35 may go to Hill too.

 
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In redraft, where situation is at least as important as talent, I think I might like Hill more than Sankey straight up. I absolutely love Hill vs. Sankey when ADP is taken into account. I feel like Hill is destined for over 200 carries and goal line duty, whereas Sankey might lose goal line work to Greene. Even if he doesn't, I don't expect there to be nearly as many goal line carries in TEN as I do in CIN. Maybe I'm underestimating BJGE, but I didn't think they'd grab a RB in the 2nd round who appears designed for the early down role just to watch BJGE plod away at 3.4 ypc. And I'm not buying Dodds' projection of fewer RB carries in 2014 under Hue Jackson (398 last year, projecting 375) with Bernard getting 215 and Hill and BJGE combining for 145.

Bernard did get 98 carries during the second half of the season, but I presume that had more to do with BJGE's ineffectiveness rather than a desire to get Bernard more early down work. I don't see how Hill wouldn't eat into that a little bit. I think We'll see closer to 150 carries out of Gio with an increase in targets, as per Hue's tendencies.

For some frame of reference, I just got Hill at 10.11 in SSL1 while Sankey went 5.01. I'd have reached for Hill several rounds earlier if I thought I had to.

 
Interesting article JFS171

I went back and looked at what was happening with the Raiders offense in the years discussed.

In 2010 the Raiders signed Jason Campbell from the Redskins to be their QB. He was not particularly good and their weapons at WR were DHB, Murphy, Jacoby Ford, Zach Miller.

Miller led their team in receptions with 60 followed by McFaddens 47 then Murphy's 41.

In 2011 DHB had 64 catches, then next highest was Bush with 37 then Moore with 33.

This hardly resembles the receiving options that the Bengals have in Green, Jones, Sanu, Gresham, Eifert. The Raiders were sending their WR on deep routes and then checking down to the RB a lot because the defense would take away everything else. I do not see the Bengals offense becoming so dependent on dumping it to the RB with all of their other options.

 
Rotoworld:

Jeremy Hill - RB - Bengals

Rookie Jeremy Hill opened OTAs as the Bengals' No. 2 tailback receiving handoffs, ahead of BenJarvus Green-Ellis.

New OC Hue Jackson refreshingly has no time for veteran deference. Hill obviously brings a lot more upside to the Bengals' backfield than Green-Ellis, who averaged a career-worst 3.44 YPC last season and turns 29 in July. BJGE scored seven touchdowns in 2013, which should be the "floor" for Hill so long as he wins the No. 2 back job. Giovani Bernard is ticketed for starting duties.

Related: BenJarvus Green-Ellis

Source: Geoff Hobson on Twitter

 
Casting Couch said:
I think this kid is going to be a beast. Maybe not the ideal redraft play, but a great dynasty stash.
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I'd say he's the most underrated rookie out there right now. It's crazy that he isn't even a first rounder in most rookie drafts.

 
Faust said:
Brad Evans @YahooNoise

Jeremy Hill already ahead of BJGE on CIN's initial depth chart. No surprise. Rookie versatile, talented RB. 750-850 yards, 6-8 TDs likely.
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Brad Evans is often the KOD - wish he'd pick a different horse.

Still, already pushing aside BJGE without a fight confirms what the Hill supporters thought from the get go... they really, really wanted this kid. For him to go where he did with all the off-field concerns, which the Bengals acknowledged as part of their concerns with him, suggests to me that a few years ago with a completely clean off-field record, we're looking at a first round RB.

Criminally underrated in drafts right now.

 
I traded up a small amount to get him in a 2RB league where I think he presents pretty good value. In 1RB formats I don't think he's that underrated though. Low cap on his upside with Gio around. No chance for him to become the do-everything main man, so a lot of the upper tier potential is clipped from the get-go.

 
I think he is the most impressive combo of size, strength, speed and moves I've seen in the class. Bernard does cap his upside, but I think both of them can be very productive.

I respect that Hyde only had 2-3 stops behind the LOS all season, and he finished with the highest YPC at the same school where Eddie George (and Robert Smith) went to, and he may well be the best RB, he is probably more Lacy-like, but Hill looks more dynamic, explosive, elusive to me, among the big RBs.

 
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jurb26 said:
Casting Couch said:
I think this kid is going to be a beast. Maybe not the ideal redraft play, but a great dynasty stash.
Click to expand...
I'd say he's the most underrated rookie out there right now. It's crazy that he isn't even a first rounder in most rookie drafts.
Click to expand...
In my three high stakes drafts he went 13, 20, and 23

I can understand why. Pretty obvious his upside is severely limited since Gio is in his 2nd year and is the man.

In dynasty I am generally always on the "talent over situation" side of things, but this is one of those cases where I am drastically ranking a guy lower than his talent suggests I should.

 
ghostguy123 said:
jurb26 said:
Casting Couch said:
I think this kid is going to be a beast. Maybe not the ideal redraft play, but a great dynasty stash.
Click to expand...
I'd say he's the most underrated rookie out there right now. It's crazy that he isn't even a first rounder in most rookie drafts.
Click to expand...
In my three high stakes drafts he went 13, 20, and 23

I can understand why. Pretty obvious his upside is severely limited since Gio is in his 2nd year and is the man.

In dynasty I am generally always on the "talent over situation" side of things, but this is one of those cases where I am drastically ranking a guy lower than his talent suggests I should.
Click to expand...
I'm with jurb. Doesn't make sense. Upside is limited, sure... he won't be a 300 carry back (only 2 of them last year anyway), but the guy he is replacing just had 220 carries despite a 3.4 ypc average. I know everyone here is super excited about Gio, but he didn't exactly light the world on fire with that 4.1 ypc. Hill and Gio are not Thomas Jones and Jamaal Charles of 2010.

If I just got back from Mars and had not seen an ADP and I was told that BJGE was to be replaced by a 2nd round bruiser, I'd say the guy is most likely going around the 5th round in redrafts (low-end RB2) regardless of format. Hugh Jackson is going to run the ball. The offensive line should be just as good as last year (they only lost their center who was their worst lineman). I don't see what's not to like. His barrier to entry on a 200 carry season is pretty much nil as he's already ahead of BJGE on the depth chart. Usually teams do the veterans the courtesy of letting them get through mini camp ahead of the rookies.

This is probably the first time in years I've felt that a rookie is actually good value. Typically, the hype for a 200+ carry rookie would be through the roof. I guess it just goes to show how strong the Gio hype in this forum is that he's been able to temper expectations for BJGE's replacement.

 
FF Ninja said:
In redraft, where situation is at least as important as talent, I think I might like Hill more than Sankey straight up. I absolutely love Hill vs. Sankey when ADP is taken into account. I feel like Hill is destined for over 200 carries and goal line duty, whereas Sankey might lose goal line work to Greene. Even if he doesn't, I don't expect there to be nearly as many goal line carries in TEN as I do in CIN. Maybe I'm underestimating BJGE, but I didn't think they'd grab a RB in the 2nd round who appears designed for the early down role just to watch BJGE plod away at 3.4 ypc. And I'm not buying Dodds' projection of fewer RB carries in 2014 under Hue Jackson (398 last year, projecting 375) with Bernard getting 215 and Hill and BJGE combining for 145.

Bernard did get 98 carries during the second half of the season, but I presume that had more to do with BJGE's ineffectiveness rather than a desire to get Bernard more early down work. I don't see how Hill wouldn't eat into that a little bit. I think We'll see closer to 150 carries out of Gio with an increase in targets, as per Hue's tendencies.

For some frame of reference, I just got Hill at 10.11 in SSL1 while Sankey went 5.01. I'd have reached for Hill several rounds earlier if I thought I had to.
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This is exactly-exactly how I feel. I'm guessing that come September his ADP will rise to the 8th-ish round, and will still be a value imo.

 
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