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Dynasty & Redraft: WR Marqise 'albino tiger' Lee, Patriots (1 Viewer)

Faust

MVP
Brooks: Marqise Lee rivals Sammy Watkins as draft's top WR

By Bryan Fischer

College Football 24/7 writer

In the lead-up to the 2014 NFL Draft, a team's opinion on a highly regarded player tends to change. As scouts dive into a player's film, background, physical attributes and more, the groundwork is being laid to draft some promising prospects coming out of college.

While much of the focus this week has been on dissecting the top four quarterbacks on NFL Media analyst Mike Mayock's position rankings, the folks these quarterbacks are going to throw to at the next level -- the wide receivers -- have gone a bit under the radar.

This week's College Football 24/7 podcast put a stop to that, with NFL Media analysts Bucky Brooks and Daniel Jeremiah breaking down the draft's top receivers. Brooks took the position that while there's been plenty of talk of Clemson's Sammy Watkins being the top wideout in the draft, USC's Marqise Lee is right there with him.

"I still believe a healthy Marqise Lee can rival Sammy Watkins for what he's able to do," Brooks said. "They just flipped years. Sammy Watkins had a bad sophomore year, and Marqise Lee had a great sophomore year. Sammy Watkins had an outstanding junior year, Marqise Lee had an injury-plagued year.

"When you really look at these two guys, I think they're closer in terms of separation," he said. "These guys are talented enough that they should be in the same conversation."

If you're going by the numbers, Watkins and Lee certainly seem to be neck-and-neck with each other. During his career with the Tigers, Watkins had 240 catches for 3,391 yards and 27 touchdowns. Lee had 248 catches for 3,655 yards and 29 touchdowns.

NFL scouts deal in nuances when scouting players, but we'll go ahead and say the production of each guy is within the margin of error.

One of the biggest reasons why Watkins has drawn the top spot on the wide receiver big board is due to his impressive junior season in leading Clemson to a BCS bowl victory over Ohio State and finishing as a finalist for the Biletnikoff Award as the nation's best receiver. Lee, meanwhile, dealt with numerous injuries and a first-time starter at quarterback to throw his way at USC.

Clearly the memories of this past season are fresh on everybody's mind but it's important to consider each player's entire body of work in college.

"I don't believe it's Sammy Watkins and then, eight or nine notches down, it's the rest of the receivers," Brooks added. "He's the number one receiver but the other guys are nipping at his heels. They have the same kind of talent."

Lee isn't the only receiver in the conversation with Watkins either. Texas A&M's Mike Evans told NFL.com that he was, not surprisingly, the top guy coming out this year. If teams can look past his height, reigning Biletnikoff winner Brandin Cooks is polished, fast and just what teams are looking for, too.

But Brooks wasn't necessarily knocking Watkins down a peg. In fact, he agreed with the comparison that Watkins gave himself on the podcast.

"When I look at him, I've always compared him to Torrey Smith," Brooks said. "I think his playing style reminds me of the Baltimore Ravens receiver on the perimeter. He's a vertical guy who's super explosive with the ball in his hands. I just don't know how much he'll be able to dominate at the next level in terms of being that explosive playmaker putting up phenomenal plays."

So don't fret if you're a team in need of some receiver help but sitting outside the top five in the first round. There should be plenty of options, from Watkins to Lee and beyond.

Follow Bryan Fischer on Twitter @BryanDFischer.
 
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Marqise Lee one of most overlooked prospects in 2014 draftBy Charles Davis

NFL Media analyst

It seems like everyone is riding the Sammy Watkins bandwagon this draft season, and I get it -- I think Sammy Watkins is a stud -- but I think Marqise Lee is being overlooked among this year's top wide receiver prospects.

Lee could be the best receiver available in a draft that includes intriguing pass catchers like Watkins, Mike Evans and Kelvin Benjamin, who should all have their names called before the end of Round One. These are rare talents, but I've been on the Lee bandwagon a long time and I didn't hop off it as he battled injuries during the 2013 season.

He wasn't just dealing with injuries last season. There was quarterback uncertainty early in the season at USC. He endured a coaching change, which was coupled with a change in play-callers (Lane Kiffin had called plays before he was fired). Not surprisingly, Lee's numbers dipped from their remarkable 2012 form, when he won the Biletnikoff Award as college football's top wide receiver after making 118 catches for 1,721 yards and 14 touchdowns. He finished '13 with 57 grabs for 791 yards and four TDs, and he heads into the NFL Scouting Combine looking to prove that he's much more of a playmaker than those numbers suggest.

I'm interested to see what he runs in the 40-yard dash in Indianapolis, because I've had scouts tell me, "We think he's fast, but we wonder if some of his speed is build-up speed," suggesting that he might not be as sudden or quick off the line of scrimmage as expected.

When I watch Lee, and I have had the opportunity to see him up-close, I see an extremely fluid, tremendous athlete whose best days are still ahead of him. I think he will do very well at the combine, but he won't just be a "workout wonder," and there are things that Lee will do that don't show up in agility drills.

Lee's position coach at USC, Tee Martin, told me around midseason that the thing that people are going to overlook about Lee is how well he plays without the football. He will run his routes even if he is not the primary target. He will block downfield, too. One other thing to keep in mind about Lee -- his kick-return ability isn't to be underestimated.

He might not be able to match Watkins' speed and he can't match the size of Evans and Benjamin, but I expect Lee, who also competed as a long-jumper on the Trojans' track team, will test well across the board at the combine and might even have some NFL teams examining whether they should move him up at least a few notches on their draft boards.

Follow Charles Davis on Twitter @CFD22.
 
I was starting to feel like he was going to be forgotten about and I could gamble on him falling to 9. Top 4 easy IMHO.

 
MAC_32 said:
I was starting to feel like he was going to be forgotten about and I could gamble on him falling to 9. Top 4 easy IMHO.
I don't know about that. We see this every year, a guy falls out of vogue with the draftniks and a team selects him in the top 10. He was a top player before draftnik season, he still is.

 
MAC_32 said:
I was starting to feel like he was going to be forgotten about and I could gamble on him falling to 9. Top 4 easy IMHO.
I don't know about that. We see this every year, a guy falls out of vogue with the draftniks and a team selects him in the top 10. He was a top player before draftnik season, he still is.
Yup, he's still my #2 WR. Lots of more trendy guys being thrown around but he's still got the goods.

 
MAC_32 said:
I was starting to feel like he was going to be forgotten about and I could gamble on him falling to 9. Top 4 easy IMHO.
I don't know about that. We see this every year, a guy falls out of vogue with the draftniks and a team selects him in the top 10. He was a top player before draftnik season, he still is.
most of the draft guys I follow still like him, just not the national guys that are playing catch up after focusing on the regular season all year.
 
I really liked him before the combine. I know that sounds bad but he had the most questions to answer there for me. I like his tape. Reminds me of Reggie Wayne. I think he's going to be a good/great WR but his upside will be limited because of his size. I know it's boring to say but the combine showed he's just not big enough to line up wide and impose his will on defenses. Still he's a super fluid athlete. That skill is very underrated. He's a low ceiling high floor WR. He'd be deadly playing with a true #1 like Calvin in Detroit.

 
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I really liked him before the combine. I know that sounds bad but he had the most questions to answer there for me. I like his tape. Reminds me of Reggie Wayne. I think he's going to be a good/great WR but his upside will be limited because of his size. I know it's boring to say but the combine showed he's just not big enough to line up wide and impose his will on defenses. Still he's a super fluid athlete. That skill is very underrated. He's a low ceiling high floor WR. He'd be deadly playing with a true #1 like Calvin in Detroit.
Good post. To go along with this, I expected to see better (4.4X) speed given his smaller size. I was impressed at how he made a few diving catches on bad throws on combine day. His jumps were great, so he showed explosiveness for sure.

Seems like to get Lee, you would need to draft him in the 1.03 to 1.06 range of rookie dynasty drafts. If that is true, it does seem pricey for a player that doesn't fit the size/speed/weight profile of a WR1 a la Gordon, Dez, Fitz, Jeffrey, etc.

 
Barely in my top 10. A better version of Kendall Wright.
If he is a better version of Wright, I think that is a good thing
Yeah, it's a strange attempt at a dog. Wright was drafted 20 overall and has had 2 good seasons in the NFL already.
Not knowing situation and based on pure talent, It's not a good thing. Wright was a product of Griffin in college and he's a product of QBs who can't throw downfield. He's a glorified slot receiver. I'm evaluating his skill not his fantasy value.

If you want to draft a glorified slot receiver, you might as well go with the better and more explosive "small" WRs in Cooks and Beckham.

 
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Barely in my top 10. A better version of Kendall Wright.
I'd have no problem with better than 94 receptions and 1,079 yds.
Don't be fooled by fantasy production and actual NFL skill/talent. Look at Mike Wallace. Many people, including myself knew Antonio Brown was the better receiver and, with time, it has and will reveal as such.

Kendall Wright is a product of situation not talent. He was targeted on average 7.6 yards beyond the LOS. You don't spend a 1st round NFL pick on those type of WRs.

 
Barely in my top 10. A better version of Kendall Wright.
If he is a better version of Wright, I think that is a good thing
Yeah, it's a strange attempt at a dog. Wright was drafted 20 overall and has had 2 good seasons in the NFL already.
Not knowing situation and based on pure talent, It's not a good thing. Wright was a product of Griffin in college and he's a product of QBs who can't throw downfield. He's a glorified slot receiver. I'm evaluating his skill not his fantasy value.

If you want to draft a glorified slot receiver, you might as well go with the better "small" WRs in Cooks and Beckham.
Is Watkins a glorified slot WR? It seems like any WR listed 6'0 or shorter is in your category.

Lee> Wright in every way I see on the field. I'm sure test results showed the same. People had concerns about his hands/technique, he answered those at the combine showing very smooth catching skill.

 
I really liked him before the combine. I know that sounds bad but he had the most questions to answer there for me. I like his tape. Reminds me of Reggie Wayne. I think he's going to be a good/great WR but his upside will be limited because of his size. I know it's boring to say but the combine showed he's just not big enough to line up wide and impose his will on defenses. Still he's a super fluid athlete. That skill is very underrated. He's a low ceiling high floor WR. He'd be deadly playing with a true #1 like Calvin in Detroit.
Good post. To go along with this, I expected to see better (4.4X) speed given his smaller size. I was impressed at how he made a few diving catches on bad throws on combine day. His jumps were great, so he showed explosiveness for sure.

Seems like to get Lee, you would need to draft him in the 1.03 to 1.06 range of rookie dynasty drafts. If that is true, it does seem pricey for a player that doesn't fit the size/speed/weight profile of a WR1 a la Gordon, Dez, Fitz, Jeffrey, etc.
Unfortunately there's not an ideal WR to draft there unless you want to reach for Benjamin or Moncrief.

 
I really liked him before the combine. I know that sounds bad but he had the most questions to answer there for me. I like his tape. Reminds me of Reggie Wayne. I think he's going to be a good/great WR but his upside will be limited because of his size. I know it's boring to say but the combine showed he's just not big enough to line up wide and impose his will on defenses. Still he's a super fluid athlete. That skill is very underrated. He's a low ceiling high floor WR. He'd be deadly playing with a true #1 like Calvin in Detroit.
Good post. To go along with this, I expected to see better (4.4X) speed given his smaller size. I was impressed at how he made a few diving catches on bad throws on combine day. His jumps were great, so he showed explosiveness for sure.

Seems like to get Lee, you would need to draft him in the 1.03 to 1.06 range of rookie dynasty drafts. If that is true, it does seem pricey for a player that doesn't fit the size/speed/weight profile of a WR1 a la Gordon, Dez, Fitz, Jeffrey, etc.
The good news is you can get him cheaper than before the 2013 season when he was the consensus 1.1.

I view Watkins and Lee as pretty close to the same, but I can get one at a fraction of the cost. That's the Shark move.

 
Barely in my top 10. A better version of Kendall Wright.
If he is a better version of Wright, I think that is a good thing
Yeah, it's a strange attempt at a dog. Wright was drafted 20 overall and has had 2 good seasons in the NFL already.
Not knowing situation and based on pure talent, It's not a good thing. Wright was a product of Griffin in college and he's a product of QBs who can't throw downfield. He's a glorified slot receiver. I'm evaluating his skill not his fantasy value.

If you want to draft a glorified slot receiver, you might as well go with the better "small" WRs in Cooks and Beckham.
Is Watkins a glorified slot WR? It seems like any WR listed 6'0 or shorter is in your category.

Lee> Wright in every way I see on the field. I'm sure test results showed the same. People had concerns about his hands/technique, he answered those at the combine showing very smooth catching skill.
Your question doesn't make sense. Watkins is 6'1" 211.

Test results show them to be very close.

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=119355&draftyear=2014&genpos=WR

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=85042&draftyear=2012&genpos=WR

We must have watched different things, because Lee displayed the same technique in drills as in games. Same with Pro Day. Though, I don't put much stock into the drills.

 
I really liked him before the combine. I know that sounds bad but he had the most questions to answer there for me. I like his tape. Reminds me of Reggie Wayne. I think he's going to be a good/great WR but his upside will be limited because of his size. I know it's boring to say but the combine showed he's just not big enough to line up wide and impose his will on defenses. Still he's a super fluid athlete. That skill is very underrated. He's a low ceiling high floor WR. He'd be deadly playing with a true #1 like Calvin in Detroit.
Good post. To go along with this, I expected to see better (4.4X) speed given his smaller size. I was impressed at how he made a few diving catches on bad throws on combine day. His jumps were great, so he showed explosiveness for sure.

Seems like to get Lee, you would need to draft him in the 1.03 to 1.06 range of rookie dynasty drafts. If that is true, it does seem pricey for a player that doesn't fit the size/speed/weight profile of a WR1 a la Gordon, Dez, Fitz, Jeffrey, etc.
The good news is you can get him cheaper than before the 2013 season when he was the consensus 1.1.

I view Watkins and Lee as pretty close to the same, but I can get one at a fraction of the cost. That's the Shark move.
It's not a Shark move if that's where his talent grades out. The Shark move was to sell him in Devy leagues.

Watkins and Lee are nowhere close. The Shark move is to let others reach for Lee while you snatch up Cooks, Beckham, and Jarvis Landry. The Shark move is to draft Josh Huff even later, who is a cheaper version of Lee.

 
I really liked him before the combine. I know that sounds bad but he had the most questions to answer there for me. I like his tape. Reminds me of Reggie Wayne. I think he's going to be a good/great WR but his upside will be limited because of his size. I know it's boring to say but the combine showed he's just not big enough to line up wide and impose his will on defenses. Still he's a super fluid athlete. That skill is very underrated. He's a low ceiling high floor WR. He'd be deadly playing with a true #1 like Calvin in Detroit.
Good post. To go along with this, I expected to see better (4.4X) speed given his smaller size. I was impressed at how he made a few diving catches on bad throws on combine day. His jumps were great, so he showed explosiveness for sure.

Seems like to get Lee, you would need to draft him in the 1.03 to 1.06 range of rookie dynasty drafts. If that is true, it does seem pricey for a player that doesn't fit the size/speed/weight profile of a WR1 a la Gordon, Dez, Fitz, Jeffrey, etc.
The good news is you can get him cheaper than before the 2013 season when he was the consensus 1.1.

I view Watkins and Lee as pretty close to the same, but I can get one at a fraction of the cost. That's the Shark move.
It's not a Shark move if that's where his talent grades out. The Shark move was to sell him in Devy leagues.

Watkins and Lee are nowhere close. The Shark move is to let others reach for Lee while you snatch up Cooks, Beckham, and Jarvis Landry. The Shark move is to draft Josh Huff even later, who is a cheaper version of Lee.
Shark move and Jarvis Landry don't belong in the same sentence.

This is the same conversation people had about Jeffrey a few years back. I've watched enough film on Lee over the years to know he's a good player. I have him higher than the rest, which tells me he's a current buy at 1.3 or later.

Did u see the leaping out Lee caught at the combine? The gauntlet? Watkins lost in more categories, than he beat Lee in.

 
I really liked him before the combine. I know that sounds bad but he had the most questions to answer there for me. I like his tape. Reminds me of Reggie Wayne. I think he's going to be a good/great WR but his upside will be limited because of his size. I know it's boring to say but the combine showed he's just not big enough to line up wide and impose his will on defenses. Still he's a super fluid athlete. That skill is very underrated. He's a low ceiling high floor WR. He'd be deadly playing with a true #1 like Calvin in Detroit.
Good post. To go along with this, I expected to see better (4.4X) speed given his smaller size. I was impressed at how he made a few diving catches on bad throws on combine day. His jumps were great, so he showed explosiveness for sure.

Seems like to get Lee, you would need to draft him in the 1.03 to 1.06 range of rookie dynasty drafts. If that is true, it does seem pricey for a player that doesn't fit the size/speed/weight profile of a WR1 a la Gordon, Dez, Fitz, Jeffrey, etc.
The good news is you can get him cheaper than before the 2013 season when he was the consensus 1.1.

I view Watkins and Lee as pretty close to the same, but I can get one at a fraction of the cost. That's the Shark move.
It's not a Shark move if that's where his talent grades out. The Shark move was to sell him in Devy leagues.

Watkins and Lee are nowhere close. The Shark move is to let others reach for Lee while you snatch up Cooks, Beckham, and Jarvis Landry. The Shark move is to draft Josh Huff even later, who is a cheaper version of Lee.
Shark move and Jarvis Landry don't belong in the same sentence.

This is the same conversation people had about Jeffrey a few years back. I've watched enough film on Lee over the years to know he's a good player. I have him higher than the rest, which tells me he's a current buy at 1.3 or later.

Did u see the leaping out Lee caught at the combine? The gauntlet? Watkins lost in more categories, than he beat Lee in.
Landry has great tape and is one of the better pure WRs. His poor Combine will relegate him to the slot, but he can be a very good one.

Jeffrey and Lee don't belong in the same conversation. 6'3 215 > 6' 196. Not even close.

Watkins lost at the Combine? You put too much stock into the Combine. Lee isn't in the conversation with Watkins either.

It doesn't make sense to compare players who aren't even close in size. Where's the logic?

 
Yeah if Watkins bowl game performance didn't sell you on him I don't know what would have. In fact Watkins performance in the Orange Bowl was the best WR performance I've seen in a bowl game since Calvin's (granted I don't watch every single bowl game) I remember thinking both could do whatever they wanted that night.

Calvin's stats in his final game: nine catches for 186 yards and two touchdowns

Watkins stats in his final game: sixteen catches for 227 yards and two touchdowns

That is just filthy.

 
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I really liked him before the combine. I know that sounds bad but he had the most questions to answer there for me. I like his tape. Reminds me of Reggie Wayne. I think he's going to be a good/great WR but his upside will be limited because of his size. I know it's boring to say but the combine showed he's just not big enough to line up wide and impose his will on defenses. Still he's a super fluid athlete. That skill is very underrated. He's a low ceiling high floor WR. He'd be deadly playing with a true #1 like Calvin in Detroit.
Good post. To go along with this, I expected to see better (4.4X) speed given his smaller size. I was impressed at how he made a few diving catches on bad throws on combine day. His jumps were great, so he showed explosiveness for sure.

Seems like to get Lee, you would need to draft him in the 1.03 to 1.06 range of rookie dynasty drafts. If that is true, it does seem pricey for a player that doesn't fit the size/speed/weight profile of a WR1 a la Gordon, Dez, Fitz, Jeffrey, etc.
The good news is you can get him cheaper than before the 2013 season when he was the consensus 1.1.

I view Watkins and Lee as pretty close to the same, but I can get one at a fraction of the cost. That's the Shark move.
It's not a Shark move if that's where his talent grades out. The Shark move was to sell him in Devy leagues.

Watkins and Lee are nowhere close. The Shark move is to let others reach for Lee while you snatch up Cooks, Beckham, and Jarvis Landry. The Shark move is to draft Josh Huff even later, who is a cheaper version of Lee.
Shark move and Jarvis Landry don't belong in the same sentence.This is the same conversation people had about Jeffrey a few years back. I've watched enough film on Lee over the years to know he's a good player. I have him higher than the rest, which tells me he's a current buy at 1.3 or later.

Did u see the leaping out Lee caught at the combine? The gauntlet? Watkins lost in more categories, than he beat Lee in.
Landry has great tape and is one of the better pure WRs. His poor Combine will relegate him to the slot, but he can be a very good one.

Jeffrey and Lee don't belong in the same conversation. 6'3 215 > 6' 196. Not even close.

Watkins lost at the Combine? You put too much stock into the Combine. Lee isn't in the conversation with Watkins either.

It doesn't make sense to compare players who aren't even close in size. Where's the logic?
Lee and Jeffrey both had disappointing junior years after great sophomore years....people are too down on them is the comparison. Mt per combine rankings reflect everything I've said. Landry has poor tape and wasnt even in my top 24 rookies.
 
I really liked him before the combine. I know that sounds bad but he had the most questions to answer there for me. I like his tape. Reminds me of Reggie Wayne. I think he's going to be a good/great WR but his upside will be limited because of his size. I know it's boring to say but the combine showed he's just not big enough to line up wide and impose his will on defenses. Still he's a super fluid athlete. That skill is very underrated. He's a low ceiling high floor WR. He'd be deadly playing with a true #1 like Calvin in Detroit.
Good post. To go along with this, I expected to see better (4.4X) speed given his smaller size. I was impressed at how he made a few diving catches on bad throws on combine day. His jumps were great, so he showed explosiveness for sure.

Seems like to get Lee, you would need to draft him in the 1.03 to 1.06 range of rookie dynasty drafts. If that is true, it does seem pricey for a player that doesn't fit the size/speed/weight profile of a WR1 a la Gordon, Dez, Fitz, Jeffrey, etc.
The good news is you can get him cheaper than before the 2013 season when he was the consensus 1.1.

I view Watkins and Lee as pretty close to the same, but I can get one at a fraction of the cost. That's the Shark move.
It's not a Shark move if that's where his talent grades out. The Shark move was to sell him in Devy leagues.

Watkins and Lee are nowhere close. The Shark move is to let others reach for Lee while you snatch up Cooks, Beckham, and Jarvis Landry. The Shark move is to draft Josh Huff even later, who is a cheaper version of Lee.
Shark move and Jarvis Landry don't belong in the same sentence.This is the same conversation people had about Jeffrey a few years back. I've watched enough film on Lee over the years to know he's a good player. I have him higher than the rest, which tells me he's a current buy at 1.3 or later.

Did u see the leaping out Lee caught at the combine? The gauntlet? Watkins lost in more categories, than he beat Lee in.
Landry has great tape and is one of the better pure WRs. His poor Combine will relegate him to the slot, but he can be a very good one.

Jeffrey and Lee don't belong in the same conversation. 6'3 215 > 6' 196. Not even close.

Watkins lost at the Combine? You put too much stock into the Combine. Lee isn't in the conversation with Watkins either.

It doesn't make sense to compare players who aren't even close in size. Where's the logic?
Lee and Jeffrey both had disappointing junior years after great sophomore years....people are too down on them is the comparison. Mt per combine rankings reflect everything I've said. Landry has poor tape and wasnt even in my top 24 rookies.
What was poor about Landry's tape? He makes contested catches as well as anyone and has very good body control.

 
Barely in my top 10. A better version of Kendall Wright.
If he is a better version of Wright, I think that is a good thing
Yeah, it's a strange attempt at a dog. Wright was drafted 20 overall and has had 2 good seasons in the NFL already.
Not knowing situation and based on pure talent, It's not a good thing. Wright was a product of Griffin in college and he's a product of QBs who can't throw downfield. He's a glorified slot receiver. I'm evaluating his skill not his fantasy value.

If you want to draft a glorified slot receiver, you might as well go with the better and more explosive "small" WRs in Cooks and Beckham.
I do not watch film but Wright looks good to me when I watch him

 
I really liked him before the combine. I know that sounds bad but he had the most questions to answer there for me. I like his tape. Reminds me of Reggie Wayne. I think he's going to be a good/great WR but his upside will be limited because of his size. I know it's boring to say but the combine showed he's just not big enough to line up wide and impose his will on defenses. Still he's a super fluid athlete. That skill is very underrated. He's a low ceiling high floor WR. He'd be deadly playing with a true #1 like Calvin in Detroit.
Good post. To go along with this, I expected to see better (4.4X) speed given his smaller size. I was impressed at how he made a few diving catches on bad throws on combine day. His jumps were great, so he showed explosiveness for sure.

Seems like to get Lee, you would need to draft him in the 1.03 to 1.06 range of rookie dynasty drafts. If that is true, it does seem pricey for a player that doesn't fit the size/speed/weight profile of a WR1 a la Gordon, Dez, Fitz, Jeffrey, etc.
The good news is you can get him cheaper than before the 2013 season when he was the consensus 1.1.

I view Watkins and Lee as pretty close to the same, but I can get one at a fraction of the cost. That's the Shark move.
It's not a Shark move if that's where his talent grades out. The Shark move was to sell him in Devy leagues.

Watkins and Lee are nowhere close. The Shark move is to let others reach for Lee while you snatch up Cooks, Beckham, and Jarvis Landry. The Shark move is to draft Josh Huff even later, who is a cheaper version of Lee.
Shark move and Jarvis Landry don't belong in the same sentence.This is the same conversation people had about Jeffrey a few years back. I've watched enough film on Lee over the years to know he's a good player. I have him higher than the rest, which tells me he's a current buy at 1.3 or later.

Did u see the leaping out Lee caught at the combine? The gauntlet? Watkins lost in more categories, than he beat Lee in.
Landry has great tape and is one of the better pure WRs. His poor Combine will relegate him to the slot, but he can be a very good one.

Jeffrey and Lee don't belong in the same conversation. 6'3 215 > 6' 196. Not even close.

Watkins lost at the Combine? You put too much stock into the Combine. Lee isn't in the conversation with Watkins either.

It doesn't make sense to compare players who aren't even close in size. Where's the logic?
Lee and Jeffrey both had disappointing junior years after great sophomore years....people are too down on them is the comparison. Mt per combine rankings reflect everything I've said. Landry has poor tape and wasnt even in my top 24 rookies.
What was poor about Landry's tape? He makes contested catches as well as anyone and has very good body control.
It took me very little time to realize Landry would be on none of my FF teams. He's not a difference maker. He doesn't create separation, minus athlete, not good size, not much after the catch. He's not a top 10 wr in this class and its not close for me.

 
tdmills said:
Xue said:
tdmills said:
Leroy said:
Milkman said:
I really liked him before the combine. I know that sounds bad but he had the most questions to answer there for me. I like his tape. Reminds me of Reggie Wayne. I think he's going to be a good/great WR but his upside will be limited because of his size. I know it's boring to say but the combine showed he's just not big enough to line up wide and impose his will on defenses. Still he's a super fluid athlete. That skill is very underrated. He's a low ceiling high floor WR. He'd be deadly playing with a true #1 like Calvin in Detroit.
Good post. To go along with this, I expected to see better (4.4X) speed given his smaller size. I was impressed at how he made a few diving catches on bad throws on combine day. His jumps were great, so he showed explosiveness for sure.

Seems like to get Lee, you would need to draft him in the 1.03 to 1.06 range of rookie dynasty drafts. If that is true, it does seem pricey for a player that doesn't fit the size/speed/weight profile of a WR1 a la Gordon, Dez, Fitz, Jeffrey, etc.
The good news is you can get him cheaper than before the 2013 season when he was the consensus 1.1.

I view Watkins and Lee as pretty close to the same, but I can get one at a fraction of the cost. That's the Shark move.
It's not a Shark move if that's where his talent grades out. The Shark move was to sell him in Devy leagues.

Watkins and Lee are nowhere close. The Shark move is to let others reach for Lee while you snatch up Cooks, Beckham, and Jarvis Landry. The Shark move is to draft Josh Huff even later, who is a cheaper version of Lee.
Shark move and Jarvis Landry don't belong in the same sentence.

This is the same conversation people had about Jeffrey a few years back. I've watched enough film on Lee over the years to know he's a good player. I have him higher than the rest, which tells me he's a current buy at 1.3 or later.

Did u see the leaping out Lee caught at the combine? The gauntlet? Watkins lost in more categories, than he beat Lee in.
What categories did Watkins lose in?

Lee looked the same at the Combine as he did in games:

http://lifesyourcupfb.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/leecombinebodycatch.gif

http://lifesyourcupfb.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/leecombinedeepbodycatch.gif

http://lifesyourcupfb.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/leecombinedrop.gif

 
tdmills said:
Xue said:
tdmills said:
Xue said:
tdmills said:
Xue said:
tdmills said:
Leroy said:
Milkman said:
I really liked him before the combine. I know that sounds bad but he had the most questions to answer there for me. I like his tape. Reminds me of Reggie Wayne. I think he's going to be a good/great WR but his upside will be limited because of his size. I know it's boring to say but the combine showed he's just not big enough to line up wide and impose his will on defenses. Still he's a super fluid athlete. That skill is very underrated. He's a low ceiling high floor WR. He'd be deadly playing with a true #1 like Calvin in Detroit.
Good post. To go along with this, I expected to see better (4.4X) speed given his smaller size. I was impressed at how he made a few diving catches on bad throws on combine day. His jumps were great, so he showed explosiveness for sure.

Seems like to get Lee, you would need to draft him in the 1.03 to 1.06 range of rookie dynasty drafts. If that is true, it does seem pricey for a player that doesn't fit the size/speed/weight profile of a WR1 a la Gordon, Dez, Fitz, Jeffrey, etc.
The good news is you can get him cheaper than before the 2013 season when he was the consensus 1.1.

I view Watkins and Lee as pretty close to the same, but I can get one at a fraction of the cost. That's the Shark move.
It's not a Shark move if that's where his talent grades out. The Shark move was to sell him in Devy leagues.

Watkins and Lee are nowhere close. The Shark move is to let others reach for Lee while you snatch up Cooks, Beckham, and Jarvis Landry. The Shark move is to draft Josh Huff even later, who is a cheaper version of Lee.
Shark move and Jarvis Landry don't belong in the same sentence.This is the same conversation people had about Jeffrey a few years back. I've watched enough film on Lee over the years to know he's a good player. I have him higher than the rest, which tells me he's a current buy at 1.3 or later.

Did u see the leaping out Lee caught at the combine? The gauntlet? Watkins lost in more categories, than he beat Lee in.
Landry has great tape and is one of the better pure WRs. His poor Combine will relegate him to the slot, but he can be a very good one.

Jeffrey and Lee don't belong in the same conversation. 6'3 215 > 6' 196. Not even close.

Watkins lost at the Combine? You put too much stock into the Combine. Lee isn't in the conversation with Watkins either.

It doesn't make sense to compare players who aren't even close in size. Where's the logic?
Lee and Jeffrey both had disappointing junior years after great sophomore years....people are too down on them is the comparison. Mt per combine rankings reflect everything I've said. Landry has poor tape and wasnt even in my top 24 rookies.
What was poor about Landry's tape? He makes contested catches as well as anyone and has very good body control.
It took me very little time to realize Landry would be on none of my FF teams. He's not a difference maker. He doesn't create separation, minus athlete, not good size, not much after the catch. He's not a top 10 wr in this class and its not close for me.
Neither guy will be in my top 10 pre-Draft.

 
I think Lee is a guy whose on field performance is greater than the sum of his athletic parts. Being somewhat thin and short without great speed, it seems really unlikely that he's going to be a top 10 guy in the NFL. On the other hand, every time I watch his games I come away impressed with his quickness, route running, and athletic ability. He seems really fast off the snap and really quick in his breaks, which is more important than having elite top speed. He's a very elastic athlete before and after the catch. I think he will be successful in the NFL. However, in FF terms he may be more of a system-dependent WR2-WR3 type of guy than a standalone WR1. Something like a Santonio Holmes/Greg Jennings/Kendall Wright mash-up. Without the top upside, I actually agree that he might be slightly overpriced if he's a top 3 pick in all leagues. OTOH, I'd argue that this class has maybe 1 or 2 players worthy of a pick that high and then a huge cluster of guys who make sense in the 6-12 range. So one way or another, if you have the #3 or #4 rookie pick then you're probably going to be reaching regardless of who you take.

 
tdmills said:
Xue said:
tdmills said:
Xue said:
tdmills said:
Xue said:
tdmills said:
Leroy said:
Milkman said:
I really liked him before the combine. I know that sounds bad but he had the most questions to answer there for me. I like his tape. Reminds me of Reggie Wayne. I think he's going to be a good/great WR but his upside will be limited because of his size. I know it's boring to say but the combine showed he's just not big enough to line up wide and impose his will on defenses. Still he's a super fluid athlete. That skill is very underrated. He's a low ceiling high floor WR. He'd be deadly playing with a true #1 like Calvin in Detroit.
Good post. To go along with this, I expected to see better (4.4X) speed given his smaller size. I was impressed at how he made a few diving catches on bad throws on combine day. His jumps were great, so he showed explosiveness for sure.

Seems like to get Lee, you would need to draft him in the 1.03 to 1.06 range of rookie dynasty drafts. If that is true, it does seem pricey for a player that doesn't fit the size/speed/weight profile of a WR1 a la Gordon, Dez, Fitz, Jeffrey, etc.
The good news is you can get him cheaper than before the 2013 season when he was the consensus 1.1.

I view Watkins and Lee as pretty close to the same, but I can get one at a fraction of the cost. That's the Shark move.
It's not a Shark move if that's where his talent grades out. The Shark move was to sell him in Devy leagues.

Watkins and Lee are nowhere close. The Shark move is to let others reach for Lee while you snatch up Cooks, Beckham, and Jarvis Landry. The Shark move is to draft Josh Huff even later, who is a cheaper version of Lee.
Shark move and Jarvis Landry don't belong in the same sentence.This is the same conversation people had about Jeffrey a few years back. I've watched enough film on Lee over the years to know he's a good player. I have him higher than the rest, which tells me he's a current buy at 1.3 or later.

Did u see the leaping out Lee caught at the combine? The gauntlet? Watkins lost in more categories, than he beat Lee in.
Landry has great tape and is one of the better pure WRs. His poor Combine will relegate him to the slot, but he can be a very good one.

Jeffrey and Lee don't belong in the same conversation. 6'3 215 > 6' 196. Not even close.

Watkins lost at the Combine? You put too much stock into the Combine. Lee isn't in the conversation with Watkins either.

It doesn't make sense to compare players who aren't even close in size. Where's the logic?
Lee and Jeffrey both had disappointing junior years after great sophomore years....people are too down on them is the comparison. Mt per combine rankings reflect everything I've said. Landry has poor tape and wasnt even in my top 24 rookies.
What was poor about Landry's tape? He makes contested catches as well as anyone and has very good body control.
It took me very little time to realize Landry would be on none of my FF teams. He's not a difference maker. He doesn't create separation, minus athlete, not good size, not much after the catch. He's not a top 10 wr in this class and its not close for me.
Neither guy will be in my top 10 pre-Draft.
You say "Landry has great tape and is one of the better pure WRs" but he won't be in your top 10 WRs. Then why were you debating with me about Landry?

 
tdmills said:
Xue said:
tdmills said:
Leroy said:
Milkman said:
I really liked him before the combine. I know that sounds bad but he had the most questions to answer there for me. I like his tape. Reminds me of Reggie Wayne. I think he's going to be a good/great WR but his upside will be limited because of his size. I know it's boring to say but the combine showed he's just not big enough to line up wide and impose his will on defenses. Still he's a super fluid athlete. That skill is very underrated. He's a low ceiling high floor WR. He'd be deadly playing with a true #1 like Calvin in Detroit.
Good post. To go along with this, I expected to see better (4.4X) speed given his smaller size. I was impressed at how he made a few diving catches on bad throws on combine day. His jumps were great, so he showed explosiveness for sure.

Seems like to get Lee, you would need to draft him in the 1.03 to 1.06 range of rookie dynasty drafts. If that is true, it does seem pricey for a player that doesn't fit the size/speed/weight profile of a WR1 a la Gordon, Dez, Fitz, Jeffrey, etc.
The good news is you can get him cheaper than before the 2013 season when he was the consensus 1.1.

I view Watkins and Lee as pretty close to the same, but I can get one at a fraction of the cost. That's the Shark move.
It's not a Shark move if that's where his talent grades out. The Shark move was to sell him in Devy leagues.

Watkins and Lee are nowhere close. The Shark move is to let others reach for Lee while you snatch up Cooks, Beckham, and Jarvis Landry. The Shark move is to draft Josh Huff even later, who is a cheaper version of Lee.
Shark move and Jarvis Landry don't belong in the same sentence.

This is the same conversation people had about Jeffrey a few years back. I've watched enough film on Lee over the years to know he's a good player. I have him higher than the rest, which tells me he's a current buy at 1.3 or later.

Did u see the leaping out Lee caught at the combine? The gauntlet? Watkins lost in more categories, than he beat Lee in.
What categories did Watkins lose in?

Lee looked the same at the Combine as he did in games:

http://lifesyourcupfb.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/leecombinebodycatch.gif

http://lifesyourcupfb.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/leecombinedeepbodycatch.gif

http://lifesyourcupfb.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/leecombinedrop.gif
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zIMcdCXGls

Vertical: Lee=38, Watkins=34

Broad Jump: Lee 10'7, Watkins= 10'6

Short Shuttle: Lee= 4:01, Watkins= 4.34(only 4 WRs did worse at the combine)

Watkins only won in the 40: Watkins= 4.43, Lee=4.52

Size: Watkins= 6' 3/4 211, Lee= 5'11 3/4 192

Add in that Watkins had a 6.95 in the 3 cone(19th best at the combine among WRs).

I think Watkins was very disappointing at the combine and that's why Lee is the shark move to grab him later. You seem to be driving the ship on Lee being out of the top 10, yet you didn't post those two catches. But if you searched through all of them at the combine to find a couple bad ones, I know you viewed them. Lee is far from perfect, but he's underrated at the moment.

 
Landing spot will matter initially with both Watkins and Lee. Long term I see both being successful regardless of the QB, but how successful will depend on who is throw it to them. I don't think you can ignore situation with any fantasy player.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
It's not a reach of you take the WR with a high ceiling that projects to be a #1 WR. Lee doesn't fit this profile.

Lee might be TOO elastic for his own good: http://lifesyourcupfb.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/marqiseleeloosehips.gif

This is the main reason he can't stop/plant-and-cut very hard in his routes: http://lifesyourcupfb.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/leeloosehips.gif
What tha heck is with that leg?
That is very strange indeed.

So, I agree with others that Lee is seemingly being overlooked by some because of the injury plagued season last year...

However I can't get behind the people who seem to think that he's just as good (or even better) than Watkins. Watkins didn't do all that well at the combine but his performance on the field last season looked much better than anything Lee did 2 years ago IMO. I like Lee as the #2 WR in this class, but to pass on an opportunity to take Watkins because you'll be getting Lee later would be a mistake if you ask me... Watkins is a can't miss talent IMO. Lee, not so much.

 
I really don't like the NFL comps for Lee and the best case scenario is Jennings or Maclin - both of whom are 5-7 lbs. heavier and a tenth of a second faster. He didn't even do the bench press to show that he's stronger than 192 lbs. would indicate.

Lee is a play-maker with great hands who I have no doubt will be a good NFL receiver, but I'd expect a player with more fantasy upside with the 1.3 pick in rookie drafts. Highly situation dependent IMO.

 
Neither guy will be in my top 10 pre-Draft.
You say "Landry has great tape and is one of the better pure WRs" but he won't be in your top 10 WRs. Then why were you debating with me about Landry?
Because, without knowing situation yet, Landry is just as likely to produce as much as Lee as a #2 type of receiver.

This WR class is just too good at the top is why neither will be in my top pre-Draft.

 
It's not a reach of you take the WR with a high ceiling that projects to be a #1 WR. Lee doesn't fit this profile.

Lee might be TOO elastic for his own good: http://lifesyourcupfb.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/marqiseleeloosehips.gif

This is the main reason he can't stop/plant-and-cut very hard in his routes: http://lifesyourcupfb.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/leeloosehips.gif
What tha heck is with that leg?
That is very strange indeed.

So, I agree with others that Lee is seemingly being overlooked by some because of the injury plagued season last year...

However I can't get behind the people who seem to think that he's just as good (or even better) than Watkins. Watkins didn't do all that well at the combine but his performance on the field last season looked much better than anything Lee did 2 years ago IMO. I like Lee as the #2 WR in this class, but to pass on an opportunity to take Watkins because you'll be getting Lee later would be a mistake if you ask me... Watkins is a can't miss talent IMO. Lee, not so much.
If you have to pay $20 for a burger that tastes about the same as a $5 burger....which one do you go after?

People are very enamored with Watkins and i'm not quite sure why. Why is he a can't miss talent? He isn't tall, he isn't a burner(i'm talking 4.3's), he doesn't have good lateral agility(look at his 3 cone and short shuttle), got most of his stats off of screens, and has a drug offense under his record.

 
Yep.

I see Evans and Watkins slowly getting closer and closer as prospects. Watkins really didn't have that great of a combine.

 
If you've never seen him play and only look at combine numbers I can see how you could arrive at that conclusion. Put on the OSU bowl game and tell me he isn't fast or have lateral agility.

 
It's not a reach of you take the WR with a high ceiling that projects to be a #1 WR. Lee doesn't fit this profile.

Lee might be TOO elastic for his own good: http://lifesyourcupfb.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/marqiseleeloosehips.gif

This is the main reason he can't stop/plant-and-cut very hard in his routes: http://lifesyourcupfb.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/leeloosehips.gif
What tha heck is with that leg?
That is very strange indeed.

So, I agree with others that Lee is seemingly being overlooked by some because of the injury plagued season last year...

However I can't get behind the people who seem to think that he's just as good (or even better) than Watkins. Watkins didn't do all that well at the combine but his performance on the field last season looked much better than anything Lee did 2 years ago IMO. I like Lee as the #2 WR in this class, but to pass on an opportunity to take Watkins because you'll be getting Lee later would be a mistake if you ask me... Watkins is a can't miss talent IMO. Lee, not so much.
From the 1st post:

"I still believe a healthy Marqise Lee can rival Sammy Watkins for what he's able to do," Brooks said. "They just flipped years. Sammy Watkins had a bad sophomore year, and Marqise Lee had a great sophomore year. Sammy Watkins had an outstanding junior year, Marqise Lee had an injury-plagued year.

"When you really look at these two guys, I think they're closer in terms of separation," he said. "These guys are talented enough that they should be in the same conversation."

If you're going by the numbers, Watkins and Lee certainly seem to be neck-and-neck with each other. During his career with the Tigers, Watkins had 240 catches for 3,391 yards and 27 touchdowns. Lee had 248 catches for 3,655 yards and 29 touchdowns.
I'm a HUGE Watkins fan and I guarantee you won't find one single person that was tauting his name before me on this board. Many just though I had a hard on for Clemson players. Please don't take that the wrong way I'm not trying to make myself look like I discovered him, I'm just saying I'm his biggest fan but the gap between he and Lee is a short one. I wanted Watkins in my Devy league but the owner I traded with drafted Lee and I'm perfectly happy with Lee. LOL, if I could have them both on my team I'd be even happier.

Tex

 
If you've never seen him play and only look at combine numbers I can see how you could arrive at that conclusion. Put on the OSU bowl game and tell me he isn't fast or have lateral agility.
You want people to watch Watkins career high game? Of course someone looks good in their best collegiate game. Should I refer everyone to Marqise Lee's game vs Arizona his junior season when he went 16 receptions for 345 yards then?

I think the problem, too many people have the Ohio State game stuck in their heads.

 

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