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Camp observations: Van Noy struggling in pass coverage

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2015/08/06/kyle-van-noy-detroit-lions/31254217/

Excerpt:

■ Eric Ebron, who continues to refuse interview requests after practice, had an uneven day. Ebron dropped two passes in one-on-one drills - one out route against James Ihedigbo was thrown a little low and he stumbled on the other route - and couldn't hang onto another 50-50 ball in team drills. He did make a nice leaping catch in between three defenders in seven-on-seven drills. Ebron has plenty of talent, but his inconsistency is maddening.

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Rotoworld:

Eric Ebron - TE - Lions

FOX Sports' Mike Garofolo reports second-year Lions TE Eric Ebron is "showing signs in camp he might be ready to take the next step."

Garofolo's observation is just an aside in an article about the Lions' running game. It's interestingly timed, as it comes one day after the Detroit Free Press reported that Ebron is still struggling with drops. Ebron's upside is through the roof, but he was highly inconsistent as a rookie, and has always struggled with drops. He'll begin 2015 as a boom-or-bust TE2.

Source: FOX Sports

Aug 8 - 10:13 AM

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Detroit Lions training camp notes: First-team offense looks good in scrimmage

Quarterback Matthew Stafford was effective, surprisingly leaning on tight end Eric Ebron to move to the chains. In four possessions, Stafford led the offense to two touchdowns... .. In total, Ebron caught five passes on six targets. He was particularly effective catching short passes (quick outs, drag routes and even two screen passes) and turning upfield for yards after the catch.

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blows my mind how people are so down on him after his rookie season. He wasn't expected to come in and light it up, he was super young and raw.

Probably one of the most underrated players of 2015, would be pretty shocked if he wasn't a top 12 fantasy TE with high upside this season.

Tangent...but Eifert same thing, just because he was injured he's been mostly forgotten about, another top 12 fantasy TE with top 5 upside.

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blows my mind how people are so down on him after his rookie season. He wasn't expected to come in and light it up, he was super young and raw.

Probably one of the most underrated players of 2015, would be pretty shocked if he wasn't a top 12 fantasy TE with high upside this season.

Tangent...but Eifert same thing, just because he was injured he's been mostly forgotten about, another top 12 fantasy TE with top 5 upside.

Many people lust after the opportunity to mindlessly chant, "He sucks" without putting thought into context or history. Seems to be the thing to do with this guy. You see it on Twitter too. The guy catches 98% of the balls thrown to him in camp, drops two on the day and he is "struggling with drops" again. Like Ebron, I have tuned out the noise. The guy is going to be a steal for those willing to take the "gamble". I'm in a dynasty league so my young TE is going nowhere!

A little more from the article:

Quarterback Matthew Stafford was effective, surprisingly leaning on tight end Eric Ebron to move to the chains. In four possessions, Stafford led the offense to two touchdowns. One drive stalled on the defense's side of the field when Rashean Mathis made a last-minute recovery to break up a deep sideline throw to Calvin Johnson. The other when Tyrunn Walker stuffed George Winn at the goal line on 4th-and-1.

One of Stafford's best plays came on 3rd-and-21 (following a holding call and a false start by Manny Ramirez). The quarterback stared down a receiver on the right side, before zipping a pass to Lance Moore down the seam for a 30-yard gain to the 10-yard line.

-- Johnson scored the first touchdown on a beautifully placed third-down pass from 14 yards out. The catch came over cornerback Crezdon Butler. Ebron found paydirt as Stafford weaved through traffic in the backfield to find his tight end in the middle of the end zone on third-and-goal from the four-yard line.

In total, Ebron caught five passes on six targets. He was particularly effective catching short passes (quick outs, drag routes and even two screen passes) and turning upfield for yards after the catch.

Edited by georg013

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I would love to take Ebron and roll the dice since few TEs in the league have as much athleticism and opportunity in what should be a high powered offense. However, living in Detroit, I am sure he will be over drafted as there are 2 major homers in my league that tend to reach for the hot new Lion targets. AA and EE will probably got 2 rounds earlier than they should.

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blows my mind how people are so down on him after his rookie season. He wasn't expected to come in and light it up, he was super young and raw.

Probably one of the most underrated players of 2015, would be pretty shocked if he wasn't a top 12 fantasy TE with high upside this season.

Tangent...but Eifert same thing, just because he was injured he's been mostly forgotten about, another top 12 fantasy TE with top 5 upside.

A lot of people had high expectations of him last year. I recall debating the target opportunity with several posters. There were people expecting him to be #2 in targets on the team and greatly outpace 65 targets.... He got 49, full season pace of 60.

That said, I like his value this year as TE16. I'd be shocked if he didn't perform better than that.

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Wasn't a fan of the pick (for the record, I wanted OBJ), but since we got him, I support and root for him. Just needs to keep working with Stafford and put some more stick 'em on those gloves. ;)

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blows my mind how people are so down on him after his rookie season. He wasn't expected to come in and light it up, he was super young and raw.

Probably one of the most underrated players of 2015, would be pretty shocked if he wasn't a top 12 fantasy TE with high upside this season.

Tangent...but Eifert same thing, just because he was injured he's been mostly forgotten about, another top 12 fantasy TE with top 5 upside.

The lack of production doesn't worry me. The horrible hands do. Looks like a Jermichael Finley clone right now.

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Rotoworld:

Eric Ebron says he could "never get healthy" as a rookie.

Ebron says he battled leftover "nicks and bruises" from his college career, while he was slowed by a lingering hamstring ailment in the middle of the year. Ebron has been drawing hype for his sophomore camp performance, but is reportedly still struggling with drops. He's a boom-or-bust TE2.

Source: detroitlions.com

Aug 11 - 7:16 PM

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Rotoworld:

Sophomore TE Eric Ebron has "turned heads" inside the Lions' organization with his performance this offseason.

The Lions want to play faster this year after averaging 65.3 plays a contest last season. With not much on the depth chart behind Calvin Johnson and Golden Tate, Ebron could be the beneficiary of the couple extra plays Detroit is likely to run each game. He is a very interesting TE2.

Source: NFL.com

Aug 20 - 8:13 AM

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Anybody excited about this guy?

No. He's just not very good. You probably couldn't get a second for him at this point.

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Anybody excited about this guy?

No. He's just not very good. You probably couldn't get a second for him at this point.

Seems premature.

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Anybody excited about this guy?

No. He's just not very good. You probably couldn't get a second for him at this point.

Seems premature.

Eric Ebron is one of the most hated on players in fantasy football. He is going to make a lot of people look stupid.

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One thing we know is that rookie TEs rarely make any kind of significant impact, so from that standpoint it's pretty likely that any WR/RB who show flashes of talent will leapfrog him temporarily next season, as has happened with Eifert and some of the RB/WR this year. OTOH I think a smart owner will be aware of this and resist the temptation to cave, so there's not necessarily any guarantee that you can leave him out there and buy him cheaper a year later.

:goodposting:

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Rotoworld:

Eric Ebron caught 4-of-5 targets for 53 yards and a touchdown Week 1 against the Chargers.

Ebron dropped his first target of the game, but redeemed himself by getting wide open in the middle of the field for a 18-yard touchdown in the second quarter. The Lions' offensive struggles prevented Ebron from getting a lot of looks in the second half, but he came up with some big catches on a meaningless final touchdown drive. Ebron will once again be a TE2 with some touchdown upside next week against the Vikings.

Sep 13 - 8:24 PM

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Anybody excited about this guy?

No. He's just not very good. You probably couldn't get a second for him at this point.

I offered a solid 1st for him and got rejected.

Ebron is the real deal, he was super young as a rookie, he's just getting his mojo.

People gonna regret missing out on him

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If you can't catch by the time you turn 22, it's probably not going to happen. I am a Lions fan so I hope he improves, but I don't understand how fundamental flaws like this get completely overlooked by talent evaluators that get paid for a living. They already had Brandon Pettigrew on the roster, another TE that is horrible at catching a football.

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?/topic/705108-eric-ebron-thread/?p=17912395

Gonzalez also had drops and only 35 catches and zero TD's through 11 games his second year.

Patience, grasshopper.

Excuse me while I whip this old post out.

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The scout quotes from Bob McGinn's article at the Sentinel-Journal:

ERIC EBRON, North Carolina (6-4½, 252, 4.58, 1) Third-year junior often compared to the 49ers' Vernon Davis. "Vernon is more sudden and compact," said one scout. "Twitchy. Eric's fluid. Where Eric makes his mark is being deceptive, running in gears and transitioning well in and out of breaks. I think he has special hands. You see him making one-handed palm of the ball in traffic. He has a chance to be an exceptional player, especially the way the game's played now." Two-year starter with 112 catches for 1,805 yards (16.1) and eight TDs. "He's a top-10 talent," another scout said. "He's as talented a tight end as has come out in the last five years." Played most of his career flanked wide or in the slot. "He's not a great big bulky guy but he'll block," another scout said. "Watch him against (Jadeveon) Clowney. He didn't win but he wasn't afraid. He's (Rob) Gronkowski-like but he's a lot smoother." From Greensboro, N.C. "In this new-fangled tight end position he can stretch the field and be a matchup issue," a third scout said. "He's better than (Jermichael) Finley and (Tyler) Eifert." Wonderlic of 16.

Good post.

I liked these McGinn first hand scouting report compilations.

Vernon Davis is the stock comp for Ebron. He isn't as freakish a physical specimen and athlete (Davis arguably like a Calvin Johnson among TEs, physically and athletically), but may be a more fluid, natural and polished pass catcher at a comparable stage of development.

Davis was the last previous top 10 overall TE (1.6 in 2006), and Ebron broke his ACC receiving yardage record for a TE in 2013.

DET seems like a great destination. Pettigrew will likely block a lot in 2 TE sets (base?). Tate should be good enough to take some pressure off Calvin Johnson and Ebron, but not so good as to be an obstacle to Ebron being the clear second most important receiving weapon on the team, long term (imo). Most rookie TEs struggle, but I like his dynasty prospects in a year or two.

With Johnson, Ebron and Tate (not to mention RB Bush), Stafford could have a shot at 5,000 yards. If that transpires, Ebron will be well positioned for production if he becomes the clear future #2 target in the passing attack, and receptions aren't too distributed across the WRs after Johnson.

* In his Sports Science segment, he graded higher than Davis (just below Tony Gonzalez), tested with a larger effective catching radius than Gronkowski and had the quickest acceleration (shortest time to top speed) they have ever measured at the position.

** Ebron could have some positional upside, other than Pop Warner, he didn't play until his junior year in high school. He was such a good athlete, despite not having played yet (before his junior season), after a work out at North Carolina, then-HC Butch Davis offered him a scholarship on the spot.

*** Matt Waldman's Futures scouting profile, from last October.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/futures/2013/futures-unc-te-eric-ebron

**** Vernon Davis (wiki bio)

"He finished his college career with 1371 yards on 83 receptions for 16.5 yards per catch, the best average of any first round tight end ever and more yards than other previous high first round tight ends such as Tony Gonzalez, Jeremy Shockey, Kyle Brady and Kellen Winslow II."

Ebron's career reception and receiving yardage numbers were 105-1,727 = 16.45 average.

Mare blast from the past Ebron material.

1) Bob McGinn scout quotes.

2) Sports Science segment.

3) Waldman scouting breakdown with photo stills.

4) Ebron & Vernon Davis eerily similar career completion average (best in FBS history?).

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Really tough injury last night for a guy who was really starting to create a role for himself. Hoping we get some information by tonight on the extent of it since waivers run in a lot of leagues early Weds AM....

I'm probably going to have to drop him for another TE. :(

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Really tough injury last night for a guy who was really starting to create a role for himself. Hoping we get some information by tonight on the extent of it since waivers run in a lot of leagues early Weds AM....

I'm probably going to have to drop him for another TE. :(

Same here which really annoys me. TE is killing me this year and their's jack squat on my WW.

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Both X-ray and MRI clear. Not serious.

So nothing is wrong with him yet he couldn't finish the game. I don't like these scenarios because something isn't right. Either there IS something else wrong with him Or his pain tolerance is little. Not knocking him, just saying that is how it falls if he isn't hurt. Guys like Steve smith cracking ribs and trotting back out while this guy is fine and clean but grimaced worse than CJ SPiller does when he went down.

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Both X-ray and MRI clear. Not serious.

So nothing is wrong with him yet he couldn't finish the game. I don't like these scenarios because something isn't right. Either there IS something else wrong with him Or his pain tolerance is little. Not knocking him, just saying that is how it falls if he isn't hurt. Guys like Steve smith cracking ribs and trotting back out while this guy is fine and clean but grimaced worse than CJ SPiller does when he went down.

For contrast at the TE position.....Jason Witten has missed one game in his career....after having his broken jaw wired shut his rookie season! He had like two sprained ankles and a sprained knee a couple weeks ago.....he played.

I agree, not a good sign....hurt and injured are different.

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I'll likely drop him regardless even though he was/is looking like a likely TE1 this year. Roster space is tight and the truth is after Gronk the position is a complete crapshoot. Yes, that includes Kelce, Eifert and Olsen. I have no problem playing match-ups all year. In fact, I was rolling with Ebron in two leagues mid day Sunday before swapping him out for L. Green the second I heard he was active vs. CLE. There will be a TE1 on your WW every single week.

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Both X-ray and MRI clear. Not serious.

So nothing is wrong with him yet he couldn't finish the game. I don't like these scenarios because something isn't right. Either there IS something else wrong with him Or his pain tolerance is little. Not knocking him, just saying that is how it falls if he isn't hurt. Guys like Steve smith cracking ribs and trotting back out while this guy is fine and clean but grimaced worse than CJ SPiller does when he went down.

So if you hurt something bad enough to where you can't comfortably go back into an NFL game, it has to be broken/torn and show up as such on an X-ray or MRI?

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Both X-ray and MRI clear. Not serious.

So nothing is wrong with him yet he couldn't finish the game. I don't like these scenarios because something isn't right. Either there IS something else wrong with him Or his pain tolerance is little. Not knocking him, just saying that is how it falls if he isn't hurt. Guys like Steve smith cracking ribs and trotting back out while this guy is fine and clean but grimaced worse than CJ SPiller does when he went down.

Or they didn't know the extent of the injury last night and didn't want to risk the health of a first round pick and potential franchise TE? He's also young, no need to exasperate an injury that could haunt you for an entire career.

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Both X-ray and MRI clear. Not serious.

So nothing is wrong with him yet he couldn't finish the game. I don't like these scenarios because something isn't right. Either there IS something else wrong with him Or his pain tolerance is little. Not knocking him, just saying that is how it falls if he isn't hurt. Guys like Steve smith cracking ribs and trotting back out while this guy is fine and clean but grimaced worse than CJ SPiller does when he went down.

Or they didn't know the extent of the injury last night and didn't want to risk the health of a first round pick and potential franchise TE? He's also young, no need to exasperate an injury that could haunt you for an entire career.

Exactly. The post says "not serious". I would read that to be "not season ending" v. Ebron is a wuss. He still sustained an injury to his knee.

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Is Tim Wright starting in his place this week? Ebron's been getting a decent amount of targets, he could do well for a week or two with them

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Is Tim Wright starting in his place this week? Ebron's been getting a decent amount of targets, he could do well for a week or two with them

While it's possible - and he did catch a big gainer on the last drive Monday night - there's probably a good chance they'll just simplify the game plan. They really need a good blocking TE so expect Pettigrew to play 90% of the snaps if he's fully healthy. Wright is nothing special IMO. He showed he was capable in Tampa and Foxboro but he's not a guy I expect them to feature.

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Rotoworld:

ESPN's Adam Caplan reports Eric Ebron is dealing with an MCL issue in addition to his bruised knee.

It's more serious than what was reported, but Ebron practiced on a limited basis Wednesday and has a chance to play this week. Ebron will be a back-end TE1 streamer if he returns.

Oct 14 - 4:42 PM

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Looking like he's playing this week and he's on my wire. he was very good in the first 3 games before the injury.

ETA: pettigrew declared out already

Edited by thecardiackid

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Looking like he's playing this week and he's on my wire. he was very good in the first 3 games before the injury.

Was same situation in my league. He's no longer on the wire.

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Was rolling with Ebron early on before I was forced to acquire Barnidge, Gates, and Green. Now I don't know if Ebron will get his starting job back this season.

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Was rolling with Ebron early on before I was forced to acquire Barnidge, Gates, and Green. Now I don't know if Ebron will get his starting job back this season.

thanks for that.

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Great game last week. Hopefully he can keep building momentum. Don't know the Lions offense well, will a healthy Pettigrew limit his snaps? Do they run 2TE sets often?

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Great game last week. Hopefully he can keep building momentum. Don't know the Lions offense well, will a healthy Pettigrew limit his snaps? Do they run 2TE sets often?

They have distinct roles.

Petigrew has become the blocking TE, Ebron the route runner. Moore in 3 WR sets is less common than double TE, but it helps EE's value to have a healthy Brandon.

In full PPR Ebron is averaging 15.40 PPG over the four games he's been healthy. In our league, that puts him a shade behind elite in the Kelce/Olsen tier.

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