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Dynasty & Redraft: RB Charles Sims, Buccaneers

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Rubbish. All that hype for nothing.

Quite a letdown. I'm not too worried about the rushing or receiving stats, I imagine he's not in great shape yet, but the fumbles are concerning.

I'm worried he reopened the window for Martin. Only Martin's health and the fact that all other other backs on the roster are from past regimes makes Sims terrible performance today not door-slammingly disastrous.

Edited by just_want_2_win

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Rubbish. All that hype for nothing.

Quite a letdown. I'm not too worried about the rushing or receiving stats, I imagine he's not in great shape yet, but the fumbles are concerning.
How many times did he fumble?

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Rubbish. All that hype for nothing.

Quite a letdown. I'm not too worried about the rushing or receiving stats, I imagine he's not in great shape yet, but the fumbles are concerning.
How many times did he fumble?

Twice, one rushing and one receiving.

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Only see 1 fumble in the box.

That's what I'm seeing in NFL.com too. Weird, the app I use on my phone is still showing him with two fumbles.

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Rotoworld:

Making his NFL debut, Charles Sims rushed for 23 yards on eight carries in the Bucs' Week 10 loss to the Falcons.

He added two catches for 17 yards, but also lost a fumble on his seventh carry. The Bucs didn't go away from the rookie, however, and he and Bobby Rainey each received 10 touches. Rainey managed 60 yards. But neither looked great, with Rainey doing "damage" in garbage time. With Doug Martin (ankle) possibly entering the mix next week in Washington, it's now a muddy backfield. Sims can line up out wide and play all three downs like Rainey, but is a current-regime draft pick. They'll wanna see what he can do.
Nov 9 - 5:02 PM

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I think it's pretty unquestionable they're gonna see what they got here rest of the season (whether Rainey is better or not)

I wasn't greatly impressed today, but will let him get a couple more games under his belt to cut loose in redraft. Rainey just looked much quicker on the field today (a couple weeks isn't going to change that/quickness isn't Sims's game). I think it's concerning though that Rainey will continue to be a receiving threat for Tampa (diminishing Sims' PPR value for 2014).

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It obviously wasn't great but I think there were reasons for optimism. First he got double-digit touches in his first game after a lengthy layoff. That bodes well for how involved he should remain going forward. Second, the Bucs did commit to him pretty heavily on a series late. Unfortunately, that's the one in which he fumbled but the fact they went to him again bodes well in my opinion for future involvement.

It would've been great to see him blow the roof off the joint right from the start but I think the key point of emphasis remains that he's the RB the new management drafted. Rainey, Martin and James are all holdovers. With the season spiraling out of control, it stands to reason they'll want to take a good look at Sims the rest of the way to find out exactly what they have.

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It obviously wasn't great but I think there were reasons for optimism. First he got double-digit touches in his first game after a lengthy layoff. That bodes well for how involved he should remain going forward. Second, the Bucs did commit to him pretty heavily on a series late. Unfortunately, that's the one in which he fumbled but the fact they went to him again bodes well in my opinion for future involvement.

It would've been great to see him blow the roof off the joint right from the start but I think the key point of emphasis remains that he's the RB the new management drafted. Rainey, Martin and James are all holdovers. With the season spiraling out of control, it stands to reason they'll want to take a good look at Sims the rest of the way to find out exactly what they have.

That makes a certain amount of sense.

On the other hand, it's still pro football and guys want to win. If Rainey (or even Doug The Slug) plays better than Sims, he won't go away completely.

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It obviously wasn't great but I think there were reasons for optimism. First he got double-digit touches in his first game after a lengthy layoff. That bodes well for how involved he should remain going forward. Second, the Bucs did commit to him pretty heavily on a series late. Unfortunately, that's the one in which he fumbled but the fact they went to him again bodes well in my opinion for future involvement.

It would've been great to see him blow the roof off the joint right from the start but I think the key point of emphasis remains that he's the RB the new management drafted. Rainey, Martin and James are all holdovers. With the season spiraling out of control, it stands to reason they'll want to take a good look at Sims the rest of the way to find out exactly what they have.

That makes a certain amount of sense.

On the other hand, it's still pro football and guys want to win. If Rainey (or even Doug The Slug) plays better than Sims, he won't go away completely.

True. But again going back to how Lovie has raved about Sims I think he'll get every chance to show what he can do. I would anticipate his role growing in the short term. What he does will determine how much larger the role becomes.

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More than anything Lovie needs to win some football games. I don't think he is going to just experiment with players to see what they have in them.....he needs to get some W's.

Not sure how that translates to Sims....but my reaction to his poor performance, coupled with Rainey's mediocrity and the teams loss of the game - is it might keep the door open for Martin to get another chance.

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Luckily for Sims owners, Lovie is predictable unlike many situations in CLE/DEN/NE. He plays his guys and already compared him to Forte so he thinks highly of Sims. It was a poor showing by any measure, and I started him over Boobie Dixon so I was paying attention. The upside is Lovie is a guy that pulled a better QB for his QB even when its obvious that Glennon is better and younger and makes more sense to start on a team with one win at this point in the season. Lovie has to justify his guys to management/ownership, especially since its a guy he placed a high draft pick on in Sims.

Sims will get every chance to produce. Lovie went back to the rookie after the fumble which is the only positive I can find from the game. Let's see how his body reacts this week. He wont see my lineup again until he shows something, but then again Murray is on bye next week and I have injuries to deal with so it may come down to either TRich or Sims at RB2 for me. :doh:

I got to hand it to Fred Jackson, tough SOB and ruined my plans to start Boobie for one week who had a decent game on limited carries. I feel like he would have been a good start if Jackson didn't play getting double digit carries.

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it's his first game back after missing 9 weeks, can't we wait a few games to declare him a bust.

9 weeks in the very beginning of his rookie season while playing for a terrible Tampa Bay team no less.

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it's his first game back after missing 9 weeks, can't we wait a few games to declare him a bust.

9 weeks in the very beginning of his rookie season while playing for a terrible Tampa Bay team no less.

Yeah I'm surprised to see people so down on him. I realize he didn't go off but his YPC was better than Rainey's and he averaged 8.5 yards per catch. Plus he got double-digit touches in his first game. The fumble was bad but like someone said Lovie went back to him so that's a plus. I really didn't see anything yesterday that would lead me to think his role is going to shrink anytime soon.

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This was better than expected minus the fumble. If he puts in full practices hes definitely in my lineup for ppr

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it's his first game back after missing 9 weeks, can't we wait a few games to declare him a bust.

If only the others will wait a few games before annointing him the Chosen One.

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Not encouraged. We can look at his YPC all we want, but in a game where the QB was a more productive runner, it doesn't bode well for Sims' stock as someone who can contribute to FF goodness through the stretch.

Definitely will be interesting to see how Sims develops, as one game does not a player make, but definitely willing to cut him in redraft for something that delivers a nominally better ROI right away.

Rainey was still effective as pass catcher overall, and not much worse than Sims on the ground. I think it's clearer that he's the value play in this offense for now.

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definitely willing to cut him in redraft for something that delivers a nominally better ROI right away.

There'd have to be some really appealing options on the WW for me to drop a guy after only one game who the coaching staff has raved about and who got double-digit touches in his first game after missing more than two months of action. If he got 4-5 touches yesterday I would probably be less enthused. But the fact he got 10 out of the gate is very encouraging in my opinion. I agree he didn't do a whole helluva lot with them but if he got 10 in his first game I could see him getting 12-15 very soon, perhaps as soon as next week. In the leagues I'm in, I'm not dropping a RB getting that type of potential volume, especially if he has the potential to make a real impact as a receiver (which Sims does).

I'm not ruling out the possibility this all goes nowhere. But I'm giving him more than one game in redraft leagues before I pass final judgment.

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definitely willing to cut him in redraft for something that delivers a nominally better ROI right away.

There'd have to be some really appealing options on the WW for me to drop a guy after only one game who the coaching staff has raved about and who got double-digit touches in his first game after missing more than two months of action. If he got 4-5 touches yesterday I would probably be less enthused. But the fact he got 10 out of the gate is very encouraging in my opinion. I agree he didn't do a whole helluva lot with them but if he got 10 in his first game I could see him getting 12-15 very soon, perhaps as soon as next week. In the leagues I'm in, I'm not dropping a RB getting that type of potential volume, especially if he has the potential to make a real impact as a receiver (which Sims does).

I'm not ruling out the possibility this all goes nowhere. But I'm giving him more than one game in redraft leagues before I pass final judgment.

I agree. Dropping him after 1 week doesn't make any sense. Why would you own him in the first place? Did people really expect him to go out and rush for 100 yards in his first game in the NFL and coming off of a serious injury? I'm pretty sure he touched the ball more in his first NFL game than any other rookie RB did in their first game this year.

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Do not drop Sims. Starting RBs that have potential to be a 3 down back don't grown on trees no matter what offense they are in. Wait and see is a better approach.

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There really is no reason to be dropping this guy at all, they want to get him the ball and get him involved and nothing from this game should make you think otherwise. In his first game of the season he tied with Rainey in terms of touches (10) from the running back position. They were and are not sold on Martin or Rainey coming into this season and are now 1-9 it would make no sense for him to not become the lead back within the next few weeks. From a redraft perspective keep in mind that they face 2 awful D's in weeks 13 and 15 (Cinci and Carolina) this guy could be huge in those playoff matchups.

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The only thing that really disappointed me yesterday was I thought they'd use him more in the passing game. I thought he could catch 3-4 passes. Two was disappointing, especially with the second one coming essentially in garbage time. But given his receiving skills I'd expect him to be more of a factor there going forward.

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The only thing that really disappointed me yesterday was I thought they'd use him more in the passing game. I thought he could catch 3-4 passes. Two was disappointing, especially with the second one coming essentially in garbage time. But given his receiving skills I'd expect him to be more of a factor there going forward.

I understand that but there's alot more to receiving in the NFL than just ability (ie playbook ect). However, for anyone that doesn't own Sims I would consider this a very good opportunity as this short-term "let-down" should mean that the person who owns him in your league will be willing to give him up for next to nothing.

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The only thing that really disappointed me yesterday was I thought they'd use him more in the passing game. I thought he could catch 3-4 passes. Two was disappointing, especially with the second one coming essentially in garbage time. But given his receiving skills I'd expect him to be more of a factor there going forward.

I understand that but there's alot more to receiving in the NFL than just ability (ie playbook ect).

Agreed but the consensus among scouts was Sims has a great feel for all aspects of the passing game. Honestly, that's where I thought he'd make his biggest immediate impact.

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Too me its actually more of a positive that his biggest impact was in the run and not the pass game. That indicates he has 3 down capability and the coaching staff views him as such, thus he will not be used as simply a gimmick or gadget player in the passing game but has the immediate potential to be a "bell cow" every down back. It is much more valuable in fantasy to have a solid runner with the ability to catch than a spotty runner with great receiving talents. As the season progresses and he becomes the starter I forsee the coaching staff aligning the playbook/scheme to utilize his receiving talents, ie splitting him out wide ect....

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This thread has sounded way more optimistic than it did yesterday. I have not seen one snap of the game..but observers said he didn't look very good?

I am wondering if anyone can add to that. Did he not pass the eye test? Against a weak D and given the glowing camp and practice reports, I honestly expected more from the number of touches.

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He looked alright on the snaps I saw. It looked to me like he was a little tentative but this is to be expected considering he missed all but the first preseason game. With fantasy (like most things in life) people want immediate gratification and if they don't get it most move one. In the long run doesn't work out very well and wont in this case.

Edited by brnichols87

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The only thing that really disappointed me yesterday was I thought they'd use him more in the passing game. I thought he could catch 3-4 passes. Two was disappointing, especially with the second one coming essentially in garbage time. But given his receiving skills I'd expect him to be more of a factor there going forward.

I understand that but there's alot more to receiving in the NFL than just ability (ie playbook ect).
Agreed but the consensus among scouts was Sims has a great feel for all aspects of the passing game. Honestly, that's where I thought he'd make his biggest immediate impact.

I thought this too. If you woulda told me before the game he would get 8-10 carries I would have thought 4 receptions would go along with it.

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They don't want to break their new toy on the first day. In a month he could be carrying the load with no rookie wall to contend with, provided he gets more productive along the way, in time for fantasy playoffs.

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I just cut him. I was expecting him to lead the league in rushing after one week of play. With all the down time, you would think he had more than enough mental reps to blow the top off the Falcons. Not so. I don't have time to wait on guys to develop. That's how I was able to trade Beckham and Mike Evans for Pierre Garcon earlier this season in my dynasty league. Winning!

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I just cut him. I was expecting him to lead the league in rushing after one week of play. With all the down time, you would think he had more than enough mental reps to blow the top off the Falcons. Not so. I don't have time to wait on guys to develop. That's how I was able to trade Beckham and Mike Evans for Pierre Garcon earlier this season in my dynasty league. Winning!

It's winning if you GOT Beckham and Evans. I certainly hope that's what you meant.

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I just cut him. I was expecting him to lead the league in rushing after one week of play. With all the down time, you would think he had more than enough mental reps to blow the top off the Falcons. Not so. I don't have time to wait on guys to develop. That's how I was able to trade Beckham and Mike Evans for Pierre Garcon earlier this season in my dynasty league. Winning!

It's winning if you GOT Beckham and Evans. I certainly hope that's what you meant.

*whoosh*

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There are just a lot of people in here getting really excited about a rookie coming back from a devastating injury like he's not about to be playing his first game in a time share on the worst offense in the NFL.

I told you so?

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I just cut him. I was expecting him to lead the league in rushing after one week of play. With all the down time, you would think he had more than enough mental reps to blow the top off the Falcons. Not so. I don't have time to wait on guys to develop. That's how I was able to trade Beckham and Mike Evans for Pierre Garcon earlier this season in my dynasty league. Winning!

It's winning if you GOT Beckham and Evans. I certainly hope that's what you meant.

:doh:

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I just cut him. I was expecting him to lead the league in rushing after one week of play. With all the down time, you would think he had more than enough mental reps to blow the top off the Falcons. Not so. I don't have time to wait on guys to develop. That's how I was able to trade Beckham and Mike Evans for Pierre Garcon earlier this season in my dynasty league. Winning!

We do a random drawing at the beginning of every season in our $ H2H redraft league to determine which divisions each owner will be in (Division winners get an automatic playoff berth).

I'm always thrilled when the guys in our league with this mentality are in my division. :lmao:

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I just cut him. I was expecting him to lead the league in rushing after one week of play. With all the down time, you would think he had more than enough mental reps to blow the top off the Falcons. Not so. I don't have time to wait on guys to develop. That's how I was able to trade Beckham and Mike Evans for Pierre Garcon earlier this season in my dynasty league. Winning!

We do a random drawing at the beginning of every season in our $ H2H redraft league to determine which divisions each owner will be in (Division winners get an automatic playoff berth).

I'm always thrilled when the guys in our league with this mentality are in my division. :lmao:

Look up

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Rookies almost always disappoint in their first game. My rule of thumb is to give all rookies 3 starts before I decide if they're a bust or not. It would stink to be the guy who dropped Watkins, Beckham Jr, and potentially Sims this year. If you had the stones to pick up a rookie before they played, have the stones to keep them a few weeks. I don't know about you guys, but there's no one on the WW who has the potential upside of Sims, and if you don't want him for upside at this point, you probably aren't playoff bound anyway.

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There are just a lot of people in here getting really excited about a rookie coming back from a devastating injury like he's not about to be playing his first game in a time share on the worst offense in the NFL.

I told you so?

I don't know. Did you?

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snap %

rainey - 61%

sims - 32%

Any indication this will improve?

Unless he flat out falls on his face (continues to fumble), it's probably a shoe in. Only thing I could see getting in the way is if Doug Martin is involved at all.

His first NFL game, he lead the team in carries and had as many touches (10) as Rainey.

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There's no doubt they are going to increase his usage. They want to let Martin go after this year, but in order to do that they have to see what they have in Sims. Rainey is a fine backup, but he's not starter quality. The team is awful and has every reason to play the guy that they drafted to see what they have in him before deciding what to do in the offseason/draft next year.

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There's no doubt they are going to increase his usage. They want to let Martin go after this year, but in order to do that they have to see what they have in Sims. Rainey is a fine backup, but he's not starter quality. The team is awful and has every reason to play the guy that they drafted to see what they have in him before deciding what to do in the offseason/draft next year.

That's definitely the common sense move for them to make. Of course this is Lovie we're talking about so any sort of goofy thing could happen next.

But if he got 10 touches in his first game and the plan is to gradually increase his role then 12-15 touches for this week seems realistic.

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