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WR Mike Evans, TB (1 Viewer)

Dismattle said:
I'm not so sure using Glennon is that good an analogy..  Glennon is a veteran QB, who has a chance to start in Chicago..  matter of fact,, One could start to see signs of being dysfunctional in TB.. 

New head coach Lovie Smith quickly announced that newly signed journeyman Josh McCown would be the starting quarterback for the upcoming 2014 season, leaving Glennon's future in Tampa Bay in question. On May 10, Smith stated while McCown would be the starter, Glennon was the Bucs' "quarterback of the future". That same day, Rick Stroud of the Tampa Bay Times reported that the Bucs turned down at least six trade offers for Glennon during the 2014 NFL Draft.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Glennon

I'm not too sure why ya mention college QB's.  Think its entirely different game, played at a less explosive state.  I was a fan of Maziel too, ever since I heard him called gunslinger.

Hope I havnt changed your view much, it wasn't my intention.  Sadly it hasn't changed my view, reading your response.  I believe TB is holding back the reins on Evans.  Hope too see him sign w/ the Redskins sooner than later.
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Wait.....Glennon is a veteran?  Maybe he is now, sort of.  But Evans played with him in 2014.......which was Glennon's 2nd season in the league.  So no, Glennon wasn't a veteran when Evans caught passes from him.

 
Dismattle said:
What all are you trying to say exactly   Winston is solid NFL material?   and/or  It doesn't matter whose Quarterback ?  

(imho) Evans is "Johnny Football", but I realize this is a team sport.. 

Its still kinda fresh in my mind, what happened to Josh Freeman.  Think a lot were shocked by their "Nuc"'s performance.   All I'm saying (again) is I don't believe theres much elite (proven) talent surrounding Evans.  I might reread the earlier posts, because it seems like your fishing w/ short quick bait.
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Winston is an excellent young QB. Your English is tough to understand but I think I'm getting the gist that you aren't a believer in him.

 
Ilov80s said:
I wasn't trying to be technical, just wondering if Winston is going to be elite. He has some areas he needs to work on: completion % (23rd) and Int % (27th) especially. 

I realize he is still young and that outside of Mike Evans, Winston didn't have much to work with last year. I think Winston might be more of a Palmer/Stafford- which for MIke Evans is just fine. 
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If he doesn't make a big jump this year with an improved oline, better running game, multiple tes and desean Jackson I would be surprised.  But at worst he's kinda like Stafford. I don't think the hc wants him chucking it a ton though especially if they are leading in games.  If their defense starts to play better his stats might really suffer.  Remember that stretch last season when they lost a couple due to Winston's poor play and they really reigned in his pass attempts

  Didn't they run like jaquizz Rodgers like 30 times on mnf vs Carolina?  That was brutal

 
Ilov80s said:
I wasn't trying to be technical, just wondering if Winston is going to be elite. He has some areas he needs to work on: completion % (23rd) and Int % (27th) especially. 

I realize he is still young and that outside of Mike Evans, Winston didn't have much to work with last year. I think Winston might be more of a Palmer/Stafford- which for MIke Evans is just fine. 
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Being stafford is just fine, and I'll agree that's probably a reasonable expectation. Palmer was elite for a few years.  The line between stafford and "elite" is almost meaningless for evans. 

 
Ilov80s said:
Another interesting Mike Evans stat: He was 6th in the NFL in receptions but was 141st in yards after catch. I can't even explain how that is possible. Comes out  YAC average of 1.8. Michael Floyd was the only NFL player with a worse average. Even guys like Jesse James and Anquan Boldin were higher.
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If you were a defensive coordinator in 2016 which Buc would you devote the most defenders to?  When there are 2-3 guys around you on every play it is easy to take you to the ground after the catch. It's a testament to Winston and Evans that he was able to put up the kind of season he did with the attention he received.  Add DeSean, Howard, and a healthy Doug Martin to the Bucs and 2017 defensive coordinators have a dilemma on their hands.

 
Alex P Keaton said:
Wait.....Glennon is a veteran?  Maybe he is now, sort of.  But Evans played with him in 2014.......which was Glennon's 2nd season in the league.  So no, Glennon wasn't a veteran when Evans caught passes from him.
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Think ya may be reading what ya wanna read.. Its cool!   YES,  Glennon is now a Seasoned Vet   Ya may say hes an actual NFL QB   better yet an NFL starter  BUT  Most would at least say hes "Career backup material"   Something which we  I cant yet just say about Winston

I shoulda replied that Glennon is a bad example, because he wasn't too bad at the time (six NFL teams believed anyway)

Sorry Conn  I got ya blocked, but seen something on my phone about disliking Winston and/or TB.  Its actually just the opposite   Big fan of TB, back when Chucky ruled  Loved them LB's working!  I still have hope that Winston can get a lot out of Evans, but some stats make it difficult.  Honestly, I kinda liked Mariotta a bit more from the start.  This could be the year!

 
Dismattle said:
Think ya may be reading what ya wanna read.. Its cool!   YES,  Glennon is now a Seasoned Vet   Ya may say hes an actual NFL QB   better yet an NFL starter  BUT  Most would at least say hes "Career backup material"   Something which we  I cant yet just say about Winston

I shoulda replied that Glennon is a bad example, because he wasn't too bad at the time (six NFL teams believed anyway)

Sorry Conn  I got ya blocked, but seen something on my phone about disliking Winston and/or TB.  Its actually just the opposite   Big fan of TB, back when Chucky ruled  Loved them LB's working!  I still have hope that Winston can get a lot out of Evans, but some stats make it difficult.  Honestly, I kinda liked Mariotta a bit more from the start.  This could be the year!
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I'll agree with you on MM over Winston but I really don't get what the bold is trying to say.

 
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-OZ- said:
I'll agree with you on MM over Winston but I really don't get what the bold is trying to say.
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Not sure why ya agree,,  However, theres no telling how most anyone goes about establishing talent and/or abilities.  Lets start by reviewing MM n Winston.  We'll look right past any character concerns, because this is the NFL! (not for long)  But, Do you ever check QB stats for such things as improvements?  Ive read that some guys will only evaluate "4yr" QB's.  Their looking for stat improvements.  It actually carrys some merit!  But, lets be honest..  Stats can be manipulated to show B.S. as Truth too.  Here ya go though: 2013 40 (10) 2014 25 (18) ugh..  Mike Mayock is quoted as saying it coulda easily been 40 picks.  How is this even a contest?  How can you not take Marriotta..  So anyways

Look I'm not Andy Reid.  Okay!  I know that   I cant always see the light.  I didn't start off having a warm fuzzy about Winston, and reading articles like http://fanbuzz.com/nfl/jameis-winston-tampa-bay-top-10-quarterback-turnovers/ isn't really gonna change my view.   18 picks last Season to go w/ 35 sacks.. Look my fav(r)e QB of all time was known to throw picks, but it sure didn't seem like many too me.  I blamed the WR's more than anything.  (giving up on plays/ not fighting for the ball)  I'm also not so sure Favre's 4 yrs of college stats showed a steady improvement of a dam thing. ( Favre had 166 career fumbles too ) 

Note:  I must say in responding that I have come away w/ a slightly better take on Winston.  (thanx)  peace!

 
Dismattle said:
I'm not so sure using Glennon is that good an analogy..  Glennon is a veteran QB, who has a chance to start in Chicago..  matter of fact,, One could start to see signs of being dysfunctional in TB.. 

New head coach Lovie Smith quickly announced that newly signed journeyman Josh McCown would be the starting quarterback for the upcoming 2014 season, leaving Glennon's future in Tampa Bay in question. On May 10, Smith stated while McCown would be the starter, Glennon was the Bucs' "quarterback of the future". That same day, Rick Stroud of the Tampa Bay Times reported that the Bucs turned down at least six trade offers for Glennon during the 2014 NFL Draft.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Glennon

I'm not too sure why ya mention college QB's.  Think its entirely different game, played at a less explosive state.  I was a fan of Maziel too, ever since I heard him called gunslinger.

Hope I havnt changed your view much, it wasn't my intention.  Sadly it hasn't changed my view, reading your response.  I believe TB is holding back the reins on Evans.  Hope too see him sign w/ the Redskins sooner than later.
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Its not an analogy. Its a fact that Glennon was his qb and was pretty bad. Pretty sure you are just trolling at this point, so have fun

 
Sarlakticacid said:
He was double and triple teamed a lot was he not? Jumping over everyone and getting tackled straight away would go hand in hand with these stats
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It would make a lot of sense

 
Pwingles said:
Its not an analogy. Its a fact that Glennon was his qb and was pretty bad. Pretty sure you are just trolling at this point, so have fun
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Its only like what close too two Seasons?   Heres a word from experts on one of those yrs.  Glennon was named to the Pro Football Writer's Association's All-Rookie Team for his strong first year performance

Now I don't really enjoy needing to provide much examples to explain my stance/view.  I believe its usually the other person who is oblivious to actual facts.  It may be worth your time to review some before future posts, because taking a troll stance?  That just doesn't sound like a man card owner

 
ZWK said:
Evans has had low YAC every season, with an average of 2.50 yards after the catch per reception for his career.

Looking at a 2016 highlight video, there are a lot of plays where he doesn't have much chance at YAC (either because he caught it in/near the end zone, or because defenders were there to take him down, or because it was a diving catch). But there were also some plays where it seems like he had a chance at more YAC and didn't take advantage. At 0:27 and 0:48 he goes out of bounds after making the catch in situations where some receivers might have been able to continue down the sidelines. At 1:38 and 3:13 he goes to the ground after making the catch when it seems like he had a chance to stay on his feet (though the 1:38 play happened in the end zone). It seems like a receiver who was trying hard to get YAC, and had good enough balance / body control / situational awareness, could have stayed up and kept going on those plays and the out-of-bounds ones. At 1:53 and 3:00 he caught the ball with a defender nearby and it looked like he maybe had a chance to get by the first defender but he didn't manage to do so. And there aren't any plays in this highlight video where he did much after the catch.
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I wish he had more opportunity to do something after the catch but I'm ok with Evans dogging it a little and going down without too much fight on some of these balls. There's something to be said about taking what you get and not risking a fumble. I used to be a big Jeremy Hill guy and the thing I will always remember about him is him fighting for 3 extra (and meaningless) yards in the playoffs and getting the ball punched out because he wouldn't go down easy when it didn't matter. Evans may not make much after the catch but He does quite a lot before and his reliability with the ball earns him big points as a real world player that will translate to more balls his way (figuratively speaking, I can't imagine him actually getting MORE targets).

 
Dismattle said:
Its only like what close too two Seasons?   Heres a word from experts on one of those yrs.  Glennon was named to the Pro Football Writer's Association's All-Rookie Team for his strong first year performance

Now I don't really enjoy needing to provide much examples to explain my stance/view.  I believe its usually the other person who is oblivious to actual facts.  It may be worth your time to review some before future posts, because taking a troll stance?  That just doesn't sound like a man card owner
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Youve provided plenty of unintelligible posts with your stance about the qb situation and how you feel about them. You keep reiterating your point, which still, at this point nobody understands. You seem to think something you brought up or reposted proves Evans is not as good as we think he is? Or something. Hard to follow your ramblings.

Either way, I disagree. The evidence doesnt support that thought and Im going to ignore you now

 
Dismattle said:
Its only like what close too two Seasons?   Heres a word from experts on one of those yrs.  Glennon was named to the Pro Football Writer's Association's All-Rookie Team for his strong first year performance

Now I don't really enjoy needing to provide much examples to explain my stance/view.  I believe its usually the other person who is oblivious to actual facts.  It may be worth your time to review some before future posts, because taking a troll stance?  That just doesn't sound like a man card owner
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I thought Glennon could be good but are you really using the rookie class of Geno smith, ej Manuel, and Matt Barkley, to prove something? 

 
Grahamburn said:
I think it's best to stop quoting his posts at this point. I have no clue what he's trying to say. 
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Yeah  I cant really help ya out without something to go on..  So were awesome!

 
Pwingles said:
Youve provided plenty of unintelligible posts with your stance about the qb situation and how you feel about them. You keep reiterating your point, which still, at this point nobody understands. You seem to think something you brought up or reposted proves Evans is not as good as we think he is? Or something. Hard to follow your ramblings.

Either way, I disagree. The evidence doesnt support that thought and Im going to ignore you now
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I really appreciate that brah!  I'm not exactly sure it was much of a true learning experience corresponding with ya   I will return the ignore!

 
-OZ- said:
I thought Glennon could be good but are you really using the rookie class of Geno smith, ej Manuel, and Matt Barkley, to prove something? 
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yeah,  Not all crème de la crème to ya eh  Both Smith and Manuel were drafted ahead of Glennon too  But, there all still somewhat relevant in the League would be a main point of interest.

Think its way too soon to believe TB downgraded at QB (again?) ..  But the supporting cast is questionable at best 

 
Grahamburn said:
I think it's best to stop quoting his posts at this point. I have no clue what he's trying to say. 
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Dismattle said:
yeah,  Not all crème de la crème to ya eh  Both Smith and Manuel were drafted ahead of Glennon too  But, there all still somewhat relevant in the League would be a main point of interest.

Think its way too soon to believe TB downgraded at QB (again?) ..  But the supporting cast is questionable at best 
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:confused: :crazy:

 
Dismattle said:
You do realize all of them QBs were successful in College    Wasn't you touting Manzeel earlier?  

Think we reached that point though    its been real  its been fun   just not real fun   buh bye
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Hell no.  You can look back to when he was in the draft process, I never liked the kid.

 
I was a little nervous that Evans would regress due to other weapons joining him in Tampa. I'm convinced now that the other weapons will help because it will be harder to triple team him every play.

 
Big stud receivers typically don't regress.  Impossible to guard.  Have to think DJax opens up the field even more for him.  Winston locks in on him.  Huge percentage of targets. What's not to like? I like him right with Julio and before Beckham.

 
Concerns have nothing to do with talent. It's targets. His targets trended downward last year. 

When I say concerns, I mean relative to his position among the top 5-6 WRs. He's clearly a safe bet to have a really good year. 

 
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Ilov80s said:
Concerns have nothing to do with talent. It's targets. His targets trended downward last year. 

When I say concerns, I mean relative to his position among the top 5-6 WRs. He's clearly a safe bet to have a really good year. 
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i got Evans on my team about halfway through the year and saw some of his games. I know there was at least 2 games or partial games, where Winston made 1 or 2 bad decisions and Tampa barely threw for a few quarters. Not sure that is the case for the drop, but made sense at the time

 
modogg said:
i got Evans on my team about halfway through the year and saw some of his games. I know there was at least 2 games or partial games, where Winston made 1 or 2 bad decisions and Tampa barely threw for a few quarters. Not sure that is the case for the drop, but made sense at the time
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I charted it (I think the post is in this thread somewhere) but Evans 2016 was similar to Hopkins 2015. The first half the year the pass volume and targets was crazy high and then the D improved and the passing volume/targets went down. Evans will be great this year, but I have him behind AJ Green and probably Jordy. 

 
Ilov80s said:
I charted it (I think the post is in this thread somewhere) but Evans 2016 was similar to Hopkins 2015. The first half the year the pass volume and targets was crazy high and then the D improved and the passing volume/targets went down. Evans will be great this year, but I have him behind AJ Green and probably Jordy. 
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Thankfully Evans 2017 qb is not at all similar to Hopkins 2016.

 
Ilov80s said:
I charted it (I think the post is in this thread somewhere) but Evans 2016 was similar to Hopkins 2015. The first half the year the pass volume and targets was crazy high and then the D improved and the passing volume/targets went down. Evans will be great this year, but I have him behind AJ Green and probably Jordy. 
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70 targets in last 8 games. 

 
Dismattle said:
yeah,  Not all crème de la crème to ya eh  Both Smith and Manuel were drafted ahead of Glennon too  But, there all still somewhat relevant in the League would be a main point of interest.

Think its way too soon to believe TB downgraded at QB (again?) ..  But the supporting cast is questionable at best 
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EJ Manuel is relevant in the NFL?

 
Here is the Mike Evans extrapolated split just for an idea of how different his early season was from his late season:

First 8 games- 110/1490/16 

Last 8 games- 82/1152/8

 
Vincent Jackson played in Tampa's first 5 games.  As we all know with the benefit of hindsight he was ineffective in those games, but the defense still had to account for him when he was on the field.  Once he went on IR Mike Evans was the only option on the outside and every defense knew it.  Would you worry about Freddie Martino?  Russell Shepherd?  Cecil Shorts?  I wouldn't.

Tampa now has other options than Evans in their 2017 passing game.  I think you can expect numbers closer to that first 8 game extrapolation.  Would you worry about DeSean Jackson?  Chris Godwin?  O.J. Howard?  I would.

 
Grahamburn said:
Vincent Jackson played in Tampa's first 5 games.  As we all know with the benefit of hindsight he was ineffective in those games, but the defense still had to account for him when he was on the field.  Once he went on IR Mike Evans was the only option on the outside and every defense knew it.  Would you worry about Freddie Martino?  Russell Shepherd?  Cecil Shorts?  I wouldn't.

Tampa now has other options than Evans in their 2017 passing game.  I think you can expect numbers closer to that first 8 game extrapolation.  Would you worry about DeSean Jackson?  Chris Godwin?  O.J. Howard?  I would.
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Solid points. Here is the other issue with it, it wasn't just Evans that slowed down. Winston threw the ball 5.6 less times per game during the 2nd half of the season compared to the first half. 

Ofcourse these are small sample sizes so all our estimates are based on weak ground, but it's all we have. 

 
Ilov80s said:
Solid points. Here is the other issue with it, it wasn't just Evans that slowed down. Winston threw the ball 5.6 less times per game during the 2nd half of the season compared to the first half. 

Ofcourse these are small sample sizes so all our estimates are based on weak ground, but it's all we have. 
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The fewer throws can be attributed to both the defense improving, playing from ahead, and the fact that Evans was basically the only option down the stretch.  There are a lot of factors.  Chicago was a rout.  They didn't throw much at all in the second half. (Ha! I clicked on the box score for this and saw the Jameis to Evans scramble play.  So awesome.) The game at home against New Orleans it was pouring.  Jameis just flat out missed him a couple times against Dallas.  So on and so forth.  I would expect them to be more consistent, more explosive, and get more opportunities.

 
Ilov80s said:
52/586/8

66/843/9

note the second split is only 7 games, Brate did not play week 17.
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I thought at least some of the drop off from Evans went to Brate, looks like it did.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
EJ Manuel is relevant in the NFL?
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Build your team around him?  SB Victory this Season OR Start packing for Canadian ball..  It seems to me, theres usually only so many well orchestrated QB's in the NFL at any one Time..  I might be wrong, but I think I recall there being like none at times (least not every Sunday on games I could watch in yrs past).  Hope you can keep enjoying NFL/College/Forum..  (I'm kinda taking a break)  IF I return later/Tomorrow/Ever?  Id enjoy seeing your name, with real Knowledge presented!  

I kinda would like to ask ya too tell me the cleanest game I could plan too attend this Season.. No drama, No helmet for Weapon, Good Coaching, etc.  Now that I'm typing the words? I dunno, I may just catch some College ball, that just kinda disappoints me.. Every day is a new Day!  When my grandfather first set me down to watch a game? I think crowds booed at bad play. Its developed a different tone. Winning aint everything, its how you play. I like rooting for an Under Dog, but its cause I know folks can play Big, with real competition..

Think we both on Twitter? (Sorry, I "conveniently" forget stuff, it seems)  I'm still posting there (Facebook too) Doubt, I have much to say about some (unless its not PG).. 

 
Not playing in the dress rehearsal and been held out of practice for undisclosed "precautionary" reasons. Any more details out there?

 
there is no details on this.  looks like he practiced tuesday, then out wed/thurs... not playing on saturday. i can only assume there is nothing on this injury because no one has video of it and they are trying to play it off as not serious... doesnt help us at all. :)

 
Looks like his value in PPR dynasty is through the roof. I just tried to acquire him & was told it would take both my 2018 1st rounders (Should be high picks), Fournette & another player TBD. No thank you!

 
Well yeah, of course.  He's a top 5 pick.  That price sounds about right, depending on the realistic outlook of those picks.  Mid/late 1's don't move the needle much when you are talking about guys like Evans.

 
Magic_Man said:
Looks like his value in PPR dynasty is through the roof. I just tried to acquire him & was told it would take both my 2018 1st rounders (Should be high picks), Fournette & another player TBD. No thank you!
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If you could move those two first round picks and another besides Fournette I would do it.  Those picks are not as valuable as what Evans can offer.

 
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