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Official Davante Adams - Packers WR, Dynasty & Redraft

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I'm glad to see Adams improving his technique, but he looks pretty stiff to me. Nice one-handed catch.

He gets duck-footed off the line and in his break on the route that starts at 0:07. Saw a little bit of that from him in his games at Fresno State too. He has some quickness and definitely has a good burst, but something about his lower body mobility seems a little less than ideal to me. There's a little bit of inefficiency there.

I like guys who play with a wider base. To me DeAndre Hopkins and Odell Beckham are two of the gold standards at WR in the last two drafts in terms of fluidity/smoothness/efficiency, irrespective of their other traits. That's more like what I hope to see from a player. I don't think Adams is terrible. I would say he's a step down from other players of his ilk such as Justin Blackmon and Michael Crabtree though.

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I see functional lateral quickness off the line and out of his breaks and hard stops by sinking his hips well.

I equate stiff hips with a lack of sinking hips, which hinders a receiver from getting open. He can't maintain speed through his breaks, so he has to slow down or round off his route.

With regards to Adams, he doesn't sink his hips as well as other wide receivers in this draft. Pause the video at 0:02 to see how his lower and upper body line up, although I'm glad to see him get so low. Pause at 0:10 seconds and he leans rather than dips. You can see some hip bend at 0:58, but nothing remarkable. Compare the Adams throttle down to Ameer Abdulah's in this GIF, and I think there's a significant difference. Maybe Adams has moderate flexibility, but I wouldn't call it his strength.

I agree about his lateral quickness, which he shows off in your video at 0:07.

Inability to bend hips equals stiff hips? Doesn't make sense to me. Stiff hips to me is lack of hip flexibility or hip looseness. You say he doesn't sink them well yet he can get so low? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bt6LeaQCMAIYVC5.jpg

I'm not sure what that means. Can he sink them well yet still not get low as well? Isn't one causing the other?

Abdullah is running with the ball. His goal isn't go "get open and be in a position to catch the ball". Adams is running a route. Adams' goal is to "get open and be in a position to catch the ball".

If Adams has stiff hips, how did he get open?

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I'm glad to see Adams improving his technique, but he looks pretty stiff to me. Nice one-handed catch.

He gets duck-footed off the line and in his break on the route that starts at 0:07. Saw a little bit of that from him in his games at Fresno State too. He has some quickness and definitely has a good burst, but something about his lower body mobility seems a little less than ideal to me. There's a little bit of inefficiency there.

I like guys who play with a wider base. To me DeAndre Hopkins and Odell Beckham are two of the gold standards at WR in the last two drafts in terms of fluidity/smoothness/efficiency, irrespective of their other traits. That's more like what I hope to see from a player. I don't think Adams is terrible. I would say he's a step down from other players of his ilk such as Justin Blackmon and Michael Crabtree though.

It's called a "foot drag" not "duck-footed". Amari Cooper does the same thing:

https://lifesyourcupfb.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/adams-vs-cooper-foot-drag.gif

https://lifesyourcupfb.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/adams-vs-cooper-180.gif

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Looks a little ugly to me, especially at the break. Cooper doing it too doesn't mean anything since he hasn't accomplished anything in the NFL.

For a really egregious example, look at former Texas WR Roy Williams. I used to call him Clown Shoes because of his huge feet and how ugly his footwork was. His feet were often pointed out towards the sides, even when he was facing straight ahead. I like to think that if he came through the pipeline again, I would've recognized right away what a fraud he was. He had so many red flags for a guy with alleged elite talent. Skinny and really really sloppy feet. That tangent aside...

Adams isn't anywhere close to that bad. He just isn't on par with the very best. Demaryius Thomas is probably the best YAC receiver in the league right now and one of the very best of all the big receivers in terms of his precise movement. Watch his highlights and pay close attention to how crisp his cuts are and how his feet aren't all over the place and messy. This is the type of movement you want to see. Combine that with his monster frame and you have the recipe for a Pro Bowler.

This year I think Odell Beckham has flawless movement. If he was 6'3" 225 then he would be a top 5 lock Pro Bowler, but it's hard to find all of the ideal traits in one package. That's why guys like Fitz and Demaryius might only come along once per draft or once every couple years.

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Inability to bend hips equals stiff hips? Doesn't make sense to me. Stiff hips to me is lack of hip flexibility or hip looseness. You say he doesn't sink them well yet he can get so low? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bt6LeaQCMAIYVC5.jpg

I'm not sure what that means. Can he sink them well yet still not get low as well? Isn't one causing the other?

Abdullah is running with the ball. His goal isn't go "get open and be in a position to catch the ball". Adams is running a route. Adams' goal is to "get open and be in a position to catch the ball".

If Adams has stiff hips, how did he get open?

Lowering one's butt does not require much innate ability. Anybody in reasonable shape can do it. Changing directions swiftly requires something different - sinking ones hips, bending in a side ways fashion while running. A player with the ball in his hands or one trying to get open can demonstrate such ability, but they just use it in a different way. A running back sinks his hips to avoid a defender or cut back; a wide receiver will sink his hips to maintain speed in his break.

Of course there's different ways to get open other than maintaining momentum in and out of a break. Adams mainly gets open with quickness and agility off the line, creating initial separation. During his break, a subtle use of his hands pushes the defender in the opposite direction.

Edited by cloppbeast

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Looks a little ugly to me, especially at the break. Cooper doing it too doesn't mean anything since he hasn't accomplished anything in the NFL.

For a really egregious example, look at former Texas WR Roy Williams. I used to call him Clown Shoes because of his huge feet and how ugly his footwork was. His feet were often pointed out towards the sides, even when he was facing straight ahead. I like to think that if he came through the pipeline again, I would've recognized right away what a fraud he was. He had so many red flags for a guy with alleged elite talent. Skinny and really really sloppy feet. That tangent aside...

Adams isn't anywhere close to that bad. He just isn't on par with the very best. Demaryius Thomas is probably the best YAC receiver in the league right now and one of the very best of all the big receivers in terms of his precise movement. Watch his highlights and pay close attention to how crisp his cuts are and how his feet aren't all over the place and messy. This is the type of movement you want to see. Combine that with his monster frame and you have the recipe for a Pro Bowler.

This year I think Odell Beckham has flawless movement. If he was 6'3" 225 then he would be a top 5 lock Pro Bowler, but it's hard to find all of the ideal traits in one package. That's why guys like Fitz and Demaryius might only come along once per draft or once every couple years.

Demaryius was not the same route runner today as he was in college. I have pointed this out before.

By using Hopkins and Beckham as examples, you sound like you like "bow-legged" WRs. Well, news flash: there aren't many of those in the NFL.

Michael Dyer being stocky doesn't mean anything since he hasn't done anything in the NFL, too right?

If Davante Adams was less stiff and and less duck-footed and could sink his hips better, he'd be open by 10 yards instead of 5 on this route right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIN3YSPpnxw

He shook Casey Hayward, one of the top Slot CBs in the NFL. Hayward was graded the #3 CB in coverage by PFF in 2012 as a Rookie. PFF Named him their Defensive ROY.

Hey look, Stevie Johnson has severe case of duck-footedness:

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/887/039/stevie2_original.png

https://lifesyourcupfb.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/stevie-johnson-foot-drag.gif

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At risk of getting even more off-topic, here's another bad/good comparison in terms of WR movement:

BAD - 2013 WR Tyrone Goard

GOOD - 2014 WR Odell Beckham

If you watch those two videos and you pay attention to their crispness/efficiency, you should notice a big difference between the two players. That probably goes a long way towards explaining why Goard was a UDFA and an early cut in training camp while Beckham was a first round pick.

The interesting thing is that their combine numbers look similar.

Goard - 4.46 40, 10'3" broad jump, 36" vertical, 6.90 three cone

Beckham - 4.38 40, 10'2" broad jump, 38.5" vertical, 6.69 three cone

Beckham has a higher BMI and slightly better numbers overall, but in general these numbers don't reflect the massive gulf in movement skills between these two players. I think that's because fluidity/efficiency and explosiveness are actually two different things. You can be one without being the other. Mark Harrison is explosive, but not fluid. Many of the guys who get picked high despite bad combines fall into the opposite category. I would say Robert Woods and Jeremy Hill are fluid movers despite having poor tangible explosiveness.

What does any of this have to do with Adams? Well, I would say that most of the truly elite WRs in the NFL are both fluid and explosive. With millions of players across the country, it's inevitable that someone like Demaryius Thomas is going to turn up with the ideal combination of everything. The league is so competitive that you almost have to be that good to be a perennial Pro Bowl type ala Marshall/Fitz/Andre. Adams is a far cry from Goard in terms of economy of movement, but if Goard is an F and Demaryius is an A then I'd say Davante is probably only a B. Solid, but missing a little something. That's likely why he was only a 2nd round pick even after a brilliant college career.

I doubt he's going to be a Pro Bowl type on talent alone, but then that's not a controversial opinion. The good news is that short of having elite situation-proof talent like Andre and Calvin, the next best path to FF relevance is landing in a potent passing attack. Adams has a chance to be a "good talent-great situation" type. His rookie ranking of ~7-8 seems just a tad pricey to me though. I recently acquired him in a trade and sent him packing for a 2015 1st a day or two later. I would rather gamble and hope that I can get a 1st round NFL draft pick type of receiver than use that pick on a second tier talent in an elite situation.

Edited by EBF

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Looks a little ugly to me, especially at the break. Cooper doing it too doesn't mean anything since he hasn't accomplished anything in the NFL.

For a really egregious example, look at former Texas WR Roy Williams. I used to call him Clown Shoes because of his huge feet and how ugly his footwork was. His feet were often pointed out towards the sides, even when he was facing straight ahead. I like to think that if he came through the pipeline again, I would've recognized right away what a fraud he was. He had so many red flags for a guy with alleged elite talent. Skinny and really really sloppy feet. That tangent aside...

Adams isn't anywhere close to that bad. He just isn't on par with the very best. Demaryius Thomas is probably the best YAC receiver in the league right now and one of the very best of all the big receivers in terms of his precise movement. Watch his highlights and pay close attention to how crisp his cuts are and how his feet aren't all over the place and messy. This is the type of movement you want to see. Combine that with his monster frame and you have the recipe for a Pro Bowler.

This year I think Odell Beckham has flawless movement. If he was 6'3" 225 then he would be a top 5 lock Pro Bowler, but it's hard to find all of the ideal traits in one package. That's why guys like Fitz and Demaryius might only come along once per draft or once every couple years.

Demaryius was not the same route runner today as he was in college. I have pointed this out before.

Maybe we've been over that before, but IMO he was always that good. People just underrated him. Like I've probably said before, route running and athleticism are the same thing to me. The former is just a reflection of how sudden/explosive/fast a receiver is and how easily he changes directions without losing momentum, which are all determined by innate athletic qualities. And Thomas was always a great athlete. People who underrated him back then just look for excuses now to give themselves a pass on whiffing their evaluation.

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Looks a little ugly to me, especially at the break. Cooper doing it too doesn't mean anything since he hasn't accomplished anything in the NFL.

For a really egregious example, look at former Texas WR Roy Williams. I used to call him Clown Shoes because of his huge feet and how ugly his footwork was. His feet were often pointed out towards the sides, even when he was facing straight ahead. I like to think that if he came through the pipeline again, I would've recognized right away what a fraud he was. He had so many red flags for a guy with alleged elite talent. Skinny and really really sloppy feet. That tangent aside...

Adams isn't anywhere close to that bad. He just isn't on par with the very best. Demaryius Thomas is probably the best YAC receiver in the league right now and one of the very best of all the big receivers in terms of his precise movement. Watch his highlights and pay close attention to how crisp his cuts are and how his feet aren't all over the place and messy. This is the type of movement you want to see. Combine that with his monster frame and you have the recipe for a Pro Bowler.

This year I think Odell Beckham has flawless movement. If he was 6'3" 225 then he would be a top 5 lock Pro Bowler, but it's hard to find all of the ideal traits in one package. That's why guys like Fitz and Demaryius might only come along once per draft or once every couple years.

Demaryius was not the same route runner today as he was in college. I have pointed this out before.

Maybe we've been over that before, but IMO he was always that good. People just underrated him. Like I've probably said before, route running and athleticism are the same thing to me. The former is just a reflection of how sudden/explosive/fast a receiver is and how easily he changes directions without losing momentum, which are all determined by innate athletic qualities. And Thomas was always a great athlete. People who underrated him back then just look for excuses now to give themselves a pass on whiffing their evaluation.

Route running = Athleticism, is about as lazy as it gets. Being able to change directions well separate from running a route is not the same as actually being able to run a specific route. You're going to find it hard to reconcile the two.

How does Jeff Janis look in his routes compared to Davante Adams? He must be better right? Since he is the better athlete and can change direction better and has more wiggle as evidenced by his 3.98 shuttle and 6.64 3-cone.

This guy right here that you've never heard of must be a great athlete since he is a great route runner right: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdqP7v7e7fw

Timed and measured athleticism to me is what I call unconscious ability. Route running is conscious ability. Certain aspects of pure athleticism cannot be "taught". Route running can be taught.

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Looks a little ugly to me, especially at the break. Cooper doing it too doesn't mean anything since he hasn't accomplished anything in the NFL.

For a really egregious example, look at former Texas WR Roy Williams. I used to call him Clown Shoes because of his huge feet and how ugly his footwork was. His feet were often pointed out towards the sides, even when he was facing straight ahead. I like to think that if he came through the pipeline again, I would've recognized right away what a fraud he was. He had so many red flags for a guy with alleged elite talent. Skinny and really really sloppy feet. That tangent aside...

Adams isn't anywhere close to that bad. He just isn't on par with the very best. Demaryius Thomas is probably the best YAC receiver in the league right now and one of the very best of all the big receivers in terms of his precise movement. Watch his highlights and pay close attention to how crisp his cuts are and how his feet aren't all over the place and messy. This is the type of movement you want to see. Combine that with his monster frame and you have the recipe for a Pro Bowler.

This year I think Odell Beckham has flawless movement. If he was 6'3" 225 then he would be a top 5 lock Pro Bowler, but it's hard to find all of the ideal traits in one package. That's why guys like Fitz and Demaryius might only come along once per draft or once every couple years.

Demaryius was not the same route runner today as he was in college. I have pointed this out before.

Maybe we've been over that before, but IMO he was always that good. People just underrated him. Like I've probably said before, route running and athleticism are the same thing to me. The former is just a reflection of how sudden/explosive/fast a receiver is and how easily he changes directions without losing momentum, which are all determined by innate athletic qualities. And Thomas was always a great athlete. People who underrated him back then just look for excuses now to give themselves a pass on whiffing their evaluation.

Route running = Athleticism, is about as lazy as it gets. Being able to change directions well separate from running a route is not the same as actually being able to run a specific route. You're going to find it hard to reconcile the two.

How does Jeff Janis look in his routes compared to Davante Adams? He must be better right? Since he is the better athlete and can change direction better and has more wiggle as evidenced by his 3.98 shuttle and 6.64 3-cone.

This guy right here that you've never heard of must be a great athlete since he is a great route runner right: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdqP7v7e7fw

Timed and measured athleticism to me is what I call unconscious ability. Route running is conscious ability. Certain aspects of pure athleticism cannot be "taught". Route running can be taught.

Yea, I don't really agree with that perspective. Not going to get into a long and pointless argument about it.

I'll just say that my personal approach isn't to treat route running like a separate branch of overall movement skills. To me if you're a great mover like Harvin or Thomas then it's going to translate to your routes. Likewise, any deficits that an athlete has in terms of speed/explosiveness/change of direction are going to factor into his route running. When I evaluate a WR prospect, I look at the overall movement skills a lot more than the specific techniques of his route running. A lot of the folks who missed the boat on Harvin and Demaryius were guys who obsessed over the technical stuff without seeing the bigger picture. I take the opposite approach of emphasizing the athletic qualities and knowing that it's going to bleed over into the route running/separation. If you've got a guy with insane movement skills, you don't need to see him run a particular route to know that he can do it. It's a safe projection based on what you know about him as an athlete. That's why the "Demaryius wasn't a great route runner" reasoning falls on deaf ears. I would argue that if you were paying attention to the right things then there never should've been a big reason to question his route running.

If you have a different approach, so be it. I'm not going to do a long back-and-forth about it. It doesn't matter to me. I'm just explaining my own thought process.

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I think we hit a soft spot....

Even if I cannot match Xue's fanaticism, I actually like Adams as a player and especially because of his situation. In fact I really wanted him at 1.10 but just missed him. The dude obviously has ability judging by his college career. Nobody will dispute his get up and body control to make contested catches.

He's still far from a flawless prospect though, as he got taken in the 2nd round. He comes into the league raw having not displayed precise route running in his college offense. I had questions as to whether he had the ability to run devastating routes, even assuming he improved his technique. I'm glad to see he has already improved his technique, but I still don't think he'll ever match the elite receivers, like (to use EBF's example) Demaryius Thomas, in separating play after play. It's one thing to make a corner back look foolish in practice, another to do it consistently in games.

Fortunately, he may not need to get terribly open. Aaron Rodgers has good enough ball placement to even make James Jones good. A guy like Davante Adams, who is open even when he's covered, will do well with such a quarterback.

Edited by cloppbeast

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Looks a little ugly to me, especially at the break. Cooper doing it too doesn't mean anything since he hasn't accomplished anything in the NFL.

For a really egregious example, look at former Texas WR Roy Williams. I used to call him Clown Shoes because of his huge feet and how ugly his footwork was. His feet were often pointed out towards the sides, even when he was facing straight ahead. I like to think that if he came through the pipeline again, I would've recognized right away what a fraud he was. He had so many red flags for a guy with alleged elite talent. Skinny and really really sloppy feet. That tangent aside...

Adams isn't anywhere close to that bad. He just isn't on par with the very best. Demaryius Thomas is probably the best YAC receiver in the league right now and one of the very best of all the big receivers in terms of his precise movement. Watch his highlights and pay close attention to how crisp his cuts are and how his feet aren't all over the place and messy. This is the type of movement you want to see. Combine that with his monster frame and you have the recipe for a Pro Bowler.

This year I think Odell Beckham has flawless movement. If he was 6'3" 225 then he would be a top 5 lock Pro Bowler, but it's hard to find all of the ideal traits in one package. That's why guys like Fitz and Demaryius might only come along once per draft or once every couple years.

Demaryius was not the same route runner today as he was in college. I have pointed this out before.

Maybe we've been over that before, but IMO he was always that good. People just underrated him. Like I've probably said before, route running and athleticism are the same thing to me. The former is just a reflection of how sudden/explosive/fast a receiver is and how easily he changes directions without losing momentum, which are all determined by innate athletic qualities. And Thomas was always a great athlete. People who underrated him back then just look for excuses now to give themselves a pass on whiffing their evaluation.

Route running = Athleticism, is about as lazy as it gets. Being able to change directions well separate from running a route is not the same as actually being able to run a specific route. You're going to find it hard to reconcile the two.

How does Jeff Janis look in his routes compared to Davante Adams? He must be better right? Since he is the better athlete and can change direction better and has more wiggle as evidenced by his 3.98 shuttle and 6.64 3-cone.

This guy right here that you've never heard of must be a great athlete since he is a great route runner right: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdqP7v7e7fw

Timed and measured athleticism to me is what I call unconscious ability. Route running is conscious ability. Certain aspects of pure athleticism cannot be "taught". Route running can be taught.

Yea, I don't really agree with that perspective. Not going to get into a long and pointless argument about it.

I'll just say that my personal approach isn't to treat route running like a separate branch of overall movement skills. To me if you're a great mover like Harvin or Thomas then it's going to translate to your routes. Likewise, any deficits that an athlete has in terms of speed/explosiveness/change of direction are going to factor into his route running. When I evaluate a WR prospect, I look at the overall movement skills a lot more than the specific techniques of his route running. A lot of the folks who missed the boat on Harvin and Demaryius were guys who obsessed over the technical stuff without seeing the bigger picture. I take the opposite approach of emphasizing the athletic qualities and knowing that it's going to bleed over into the route running/separation. If you've got a guy with insane movement skills, you don't need to see him run a particular route to know that he can do it. It's a safe projection based on what you know about him as an athlete. That's why the "Demaryius wasn't a great route runner" reasoning falls on deaf ears. I would argue that if you were paying attention to the right things then there never should've been a big reason to question his route running.

If you have a different approach, so be it. I'm not going to do a long back-and-forth about it. It doesn't matter to me. I'm just explaining my own thought process.

The flaw in your process is thinking that "being able to change directions well enough to run a specific route to a specific level" is the same as "being a good route runner".

Our processes differ because we probably have a different idea of what "a good route runner" is. How about you show me what good or even great routes look like?

The moves that Adams makes in the two videos I posted can be and have to be taught. The level of quickness and level of ankle flexibility needed to perform the same moves may not likely be able to be taught.

Harvin and Demaryius could "change directions well while running a route", but neither were actually "good route runners". Running in a straight line for 10 yards and then cutting sharply in one direction is different from running in a straight line for 10 yards, then planting the outside foot to make a hard pushoff while dragging the inside foot to help aid in stopping and then changing direction of momentum to cut sharply in one direction.

With Demaryius being his size, I would imagine he would have been pretty good without being a great route runner. It's just that playing with Peyton Manning, he doesn't have a choice.

Technique can mask a lot of deficiencies in overall level of athleticism. See: Keenan Allen, Antonio Brown, Jarvis Landry, Chad Johnson, etc.

Is this player duck-footed? https://lifesyourcupfb.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/mystery-player-foot-drag-closeup-reverse.gif

Would you still say he's duck-footed if you knew who he was? I doubt it.

Look Chad Johnson is duck-footed (the first play). He's only like one of the best route runners of the last 10 years.

Edited by Xue

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http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/133920/packers-camp-report-day-7

Rookie second-round receiver Davante Adams has shown up big in practice more often of late. He made perhaps the best catch of Family Night, when he had to extend himself to haul in a ball on the left sideline from Matt Flynn against tight coverage from cornerback Antonio Dennard.

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From Milwaukee Journal Sentinel Packers Beat Tyler Dunne:

Davante Adams in the back of the end zone, TD from Rodgers. Those two are getting more snaps together now.

6:59 PM - 4 Aug 2014

How good for the Packers offense if as a rookie, Adams forms a great connection with Rodgers.

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Rotoworld:

Davante Adams - WR - Packers

Second-round WR Davante Adams is listed as a second-string wideout on the Packers' initial depth chart.

It's notable that fellow rookie Richard Rodgers was listed as a fourth-string tight end. The Packers don't appear to be playing any games with Adams, as he's ahead of incumbents Myles White and Chris Harper. Any injuries to Jordy Nelson or Randall Cobb would make Adams a must-add this season, and we wouldn't rule him beating out Jarrett Boykin for No. 3 reps at some point early in the season.

Source: packers.com

Aug 5 - 2:17 PM

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Rotoworld:

The Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel says Davante Adams "might turn out to be best in the slot."

Through two weeks of camp, Adams has not looked like a deep threat from the outside. As expected, he's profiled more as a possession receiver thanks to strength, plus ball skills and excellent YAC ability. Dynasty owners should note that incumbent slot man Randall Cobb is entering the final year of his contract.

Related: Randall Cobb

Source: Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel

Aug 7 - 9:03 AM

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Rotoworld:

The Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel says Davante Adams "might turn out to be best in the slot."Through two weeks of camp, Adams has not looked like a deep threat from the outside. As expected, he's profiled more as a possession receiver thanks to strength, plus ball skills and excellent YAC ability. Dynasty owners should note that incumbent slot man Randall Cobb is entering the final year of his contract.

Related: Randall Cobb

Source: Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel

Aug 7 - 9:03 AM

Not what Cobb owners wanted to hear but it makes sense. They can keep Boykin for cheap next year as a RFA.

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Looks a little ugly to me, especially at the break. Cooper doing it too doesn't mean anything since he hasn't accomplished anything in the NFL.

For a really egregious example, look at former Texas WR Roy Williams. I used to call him Clown Shoes because of his huge feet and how ugly his footwork was. His feet were often pointed out towards the sides, even when he was facing straight ahead. I like to think that if he came through the pipeline again, I would've recognized right away what a fraud he was. He had so many red flags for a guy with alleged elite talent. Skinny and really really sloppy feet. That tangent aside...

Adams isn't anywhere close to that bad. He just isn't on par with the very best. Demaryius Thomas is probably the best YAC receiver in the league right now and one of the very best of all the big receivers in terms of his precise movement. Watch his highlights and pay close attention to how crisp his cuts are and how his feet aren't all over the place and messy. This is the type of movement you want to see. Combine that with his monster frame and you have the recipe for a Pro Bowler.

This year I think Odell Beckham has flawless movement. If he was 6'3" 225 then he would be a top 5 lock Pro Bowler, but it's hard to find all of the ideal traits in one package. That's why guys like Fitz and Demaryius might only come along once per draft or once every couple years.

Demaryius was not the same route runner today as he was in college. I have pointed this out before.

Maybe we've been over that before, but IMO he was always that good. People just underrated him. Like I've probably said before, route running and athleticism are the same thing to me. The former is just a reflection of how sudden/explosive/fast a receiver is and how easily he changes directions without losing momentum, which are all determined by innate athletic qualities. And Thomas was always a great athlete. People who underrated him back then just look for excuses now to give themselves a pass on whiffing their evaluation.

Route running = Athleticism, is about as lazy as it gets. Being able to change directions well separate from running a route is not the same as actually being able to run a specific route. You're going to find it hard to reconcile the two.

How does Jeff Janis look in his routes compared to Davante Adams? He must be better right? Since he is the better athlete and can change direction better and has more wiggle as evidenced by his 3.98 shuttle and 6.64 3-cone.

This guy right here that you've never heard of must be a great athlete since he is a great route runner right: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdqP7v7e7fw

Timed and measured athleticism to me is what I call unconscious ability. Route running is conscious ability. Certain aspects of pure athleticism cannot be "taught". Route running can be taught.

Yea, I don't really agree with that perspective. Not going to get into a long and pointless argument about it.

I'll just say that my personal approach isn't to treat route running like a separate branch of overall movement skills. To me if you're a great mover like Harvin or Thomas then it's going to translate to your routes. Likewise, any deficits that an athlete has in terms of speed/explosiveness/change of direction are going to factor into his route running. When I evaluate a WR prospect, I look at the overall movement skills a lot more than the specific techniques of his route running. A lot of the folks who missed the boat on Harvin and Demaryius were guys who obsessed over the technical stuff without seeing the bigger picture. I take the opposite approach of emphasizing the athletic qualities and knowing that it's going to bleed over into the route running/separation. If you've got a guy with insane movement skills, you don't need to see him run a particular route to know that he can do it. It's a safe projection based on what you know about him as an athlete. That's why the "Demaryius wasn't a great route runner" reasoning falls on deaf ears. I would argue that if you were paying attention to the right things then there never should've been a big reason to question his route running.

If you have a different approach, so be it. I'm not going to do a long back-and-forth about it. It doesn't matter to me. I'm just explaining my own thought process.

The flaw in your process is thinking that "being able to change directions well enough to run a specific route to a specific level" is the same as "being a good route runner".

Our processes differ because we probably have a different idea of what "a good route runner" is. How about you show me what good or even great routes look like?

The moves that Adams makes in the two videos I posted can be and have to be taught. The level of quickness and level of ankle flexibility needed to perform the same moves may not likely be able to be taught.

Harvin and Demaryius could "change directions well while running a route", but neither were actually "good route runners". Running in a straight line for 10 yards and then cutting sharply in one direction is different from running in a straight line for 10 yards, then planting the outside foot to make a hard pushoff while dragging the inside foot to help aid in stopping and then changing direction of momentum to cut sharply in one direction.

With Demaryius being his size, I would imagine he would have been pretty good without being a great route runner. It's just that playing with Peyton Manning, he doesn't have a choice.

Technique can mask a lot of deficiencies in overall level of athleticism. See: Keenan Allen, Antonio Brown, Jarvis Landry, Chad Johnson, etc.

Is this player duck-footed? https://lifesyourcupfb.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/mystery-player-foot-drag-closeup-reverse.gif

Would you still say he's duck-footed if you knew who he was? I doubt it.

Look Chad Johnson is duck-footed (the first play). He's only like one of the best route runners of the last 10 years.

I think this kid will be a star in NFL, he is known for his route running, he may have to fine tune some mechanical issues, but GB doen't need to build this kid

from the ground up. I'm collecting him in all dynasty leagues, and will wait for his opportunity, I think he'll be tremendous in the GB system.

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Anyone who watched the game tonight, any thoughts on Davante and how he looked?

He made a nice/aggressive move to get/reach for a 1st down and looked good doing it...

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He looked terrible fielding punts. Fumbled once and almost fumbled once.

Yeah, I'm not sure why they had him taking punts. His strength is not elusiveness or speed, it's catching and route running.

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He looked terrible fielding punts. Fumbled once and almost fumbled once.

Yeah, I'm not sure why they had him taking punts. His strength is not elusiveness or speed, it's catching and route running.

Some of the Packers beat on twitter were questioning this as well... they said he didn't get much practice if any as a returner in camp and all of a sudden he's thrown into that role in the first game. It wasn't something he did at Fresno State either.

Other than those two plays, he looked good as a receiver. I don't think there's any way he doesn't start the season as our #3 WR, Boykin just can't match his talent.

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I'm just glad the fumbles were on PR duties. When I first saw the box score, I was like Nooooooo! I drafted him in both my dynasty leagues and have him on several Draftmaster teams as well, so seeing 2 fumbles was discouraging initially.

I really don't expect much in his rookie year because the Pack tend to bring players along slowly, but by all accounts, he's impressing in camp, so maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised. I'm gonna watch the condensed game here in a bit.

Does anyone know when he got in the game (quarter/time, approximately)?

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Rotoworld:

Davante Adams - WR - Packers

Packers special teams coach Shawn Slocum said he's willing to give rookie Davante Adams another chance on punt returns despite his struggles in last week's preseason game.

Adams was a disaster on punts in Green Bay's preseason opener, fumbling two kicks and suffering a wrist injury. Jeff Janis and UDFA Ryan White are also getting looks and could compete for the job. Coach Mike McCarthy is open to using Randall Cobb on special teams and hasn't ruled out re-inserting him on returns.

Source: ESPN.com

Aug 15 - 5:35 PM

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He's a hold. He is the #4 on the Packers at this point - Boykin has earned the #3 job.

You have to hope that

they let Cobb walk next year

and

that Janis doesn't pass him.

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This is kind of my thought as well. I'm not worried about Boykin or Janis. If those guys beat out Adams, then Adams isn't going to do much at all in his career most likely.

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Maybe. We'll see but talent usually rises. There is ample opportunity in Green Bay obviously. Cobb came in and carved our a role despite having Jordy, Jones, Jennings, and Driver on the roster.

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In the last preseason game, Adams played 73.9% of his snaps in the slot.

Boykin has played 6.5% all of preseason and 6.1% all of 2013. He's exclusively an outside WR. Adams is much quicker out of his breaks and off the line. He can play inside and outside.

I think it's more likely Adams replaces Cobb, not Boykin. Cobb owners might need an exit strategy.

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In the last preseason game, Adams played 73.9% of his snaps in the slot.

Boykin has played 6.5% all of preseason and 6.1% all of 2013. He's exclusively an outside WR. Adams is much quicker out of his breaks and off the line. He can play inside and outside.

I think it's more likely Adams replaces Cobb, not Boykin. Cobb owners might need an exit strategy.

Packers like their WRs to be versatile. Jennings/Jordy/Driver all played the slot and outside. James Jones worked mostly on the outside. I think Boykin will do the same.

The Packers do have cap room to sign Cobb, so its no slam dunk that he's gone. I think they just want to see if he can stay healthy before committing big money to him.

IMO Adams will carve out a role, and it will be a nice piece of the pie. Eventually. It could come as soon as next year, or maybe its 2017. People forget Jordy Nelson didn't have more than 600 or 2 TDs in a season until his 4th year. Same thing was true for Driver.

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In the last preseason game, Adams played 73.9% of his snaps in the slot.

Boykin has played 6.5% all of preseason and 6.1% all of 2013. He's exclusively an outside WR. Adams is much quicker out of his breaks and off the line. He can play inside and outside.

I think it's more likely Adams replaces Cobb, not Boykin. Cobb owners might need an exit strategy.

Packers like their WRs to be versatile. Jennings/Jordy/Driver all played the slot and outside. James Jones worked mostly on the outside. I think Boykin will do the same.

The Packers do have cap room to sign Cobb, so its no slam dunk that he's gone. I think they just want to see if he can stay healthy before committing big money to him.

IMO Adams will carve out a role, and it will be a nice piece of the pie. Eventually. It could come as soon as next year, or maybe its 2017. People forget Jordy Nelson didn't have more than 600 or 2 TDs in a season until his 4th year. Same thing was true for Driver.

I think the thing with Cobb is that he needs to be more than just healthy. He's looked like nothing special all camp/preseason.

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I think the thing with Cobb is that he needs to be more than just healthy. He's looked like nothing special all camp/preseason.

I'm hope the stat line will help me trade him a little high, if I get any takers.

Edited by cloppbeast

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Rotoworld:

The Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel says WR Davante Adams "started to take off" in the final weeks of training camp.

Adams came on strong after a slow start to camp and ran as the No. 4 receiver in Week 1. The second-round rookie was not targeted on nine snaps, but his progress is worth monitoring. Adams, a versatile receiver, will be a strong fantasy add if any of Jordy Nelson, Randall Cobb or Jarrett Boykin goes down.

Source: Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel

Sep 9 - 8:08 AM

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Looks like a changing of the guard between Adams and Boykin.

Boykin is bellow average at best. This should be a simple move to make.

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Looks like a changing of the guard between Adams and Boykin.

Boykin is bellow average at best. This should be a simple move to make.

Yep, just a matter of the rookie learning the playbook. His upside is better than James Jones did there. He's more like Greg Jennings in play style. Very shifty.

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I just posted this in the "this year's Keenan Allen" thread:

I'm gonna go on record with Davonte Adams. He is available on most waiver wires rt now.

He looked good in week 2 and is about to pass Boykin for the 3rd we spot. Adams should become an every down player starting on the outside opposite Nelson in James jones' old role.

Except the difference is they have no tight end to throw to. Adams is playing with arguably the best qb in the league on a high powered offense and has a bad defense ensuring many shootout a. He will always see the opposing teams 2nd cornerback and will always see single coverage.

Rt now Nelson is dominating targets but as teams scheme to take him out of the game I think Adams is going to have some monster games.

In fact, my team was devastated by Rb injuries so my flex spot is a question mark rt now. I had kelce in there but yesterday I picked up Adams and I'm starting him against Detroit in what looks to be a shootout.

I think week 3 could be his coming out party.

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From rotoworld:

Coach Mike McCarthy said WR Davante Adams has "earned opportunities" and produced.

McCarthy declined to name Adams his new starter opposite Jordy Nelson, but it appears we're eventually heading in that direction. After a Jarrett Boykin red-zone drop in Week 2, Adams came on and shined with a 5-50-0 line on seven targets and 37 snaps. As the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel says, Boykin is "steady" but Adams can "stress a defense." The second-round rookie is the one to stash as the potential home run if he can fully pass Boykin. As for this week's potential shootout with the Lions, expect a rotation. Sep 18 - 8:06 AM

Source: Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel

I'm a little confused by this statement as I thought Nelson and Cobb are the 1/2 and Boykin the third guy. Is a 3 WR set the base set for the Packers? Does Cobb line up in the slot?

Edited by Ketamine Dreams

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