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I said this in the Bucs' thread, but is there any reason TB or any team for that matter can't subject him to a polygraph? If I were contemplating drafting him I would certainly want him to take one.

Polygraph for what?

I'd want to know if I was drafting a rapist #1 overall.

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I said this in the Bucs' thread, but is there any reason TB or any team for that matter can't subject him to a polygraph? If I were contemplating drafting him I would certainly want him to take one.

Polygraph for what?

Isn't that a Lil Jon song?
POLY-GRAPH FOR WAT?!??!???
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I said this in the Bucs' thread, but is there any reason TB or any team for that matter can't subject him to a polygraph? If I were contemplating drafting him I would certainly want him to take one.

Polygraph for what?

I'd want to know if I was drafting a rapist #1 overall.

Oh, I'd forgotten that part of the story. I didn't think you'd use a polygraph to determine maturity.

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I said this in the Bucs' thread, but is there any reason TB or any team for that matter can't subject him to a polygraph? If I were contemplating drafting him I would certainly want him to take one.

Polygraph for what?

I'd want to know if I was drafting a rapist #1 overall.

Oh, I'd forgotten that part of the story. I didn't think you'd use a polygraph to determine maturity.

I think you're being facetious?

Anyway, I can get over the crab legs and the eff her right in the P and the other stuff. I can't get over rape. So, if I was drafting him I'd want to know if he committed a heinous crime or if he just got caught up in a bad situation with an overzealous girl. They're the only two people who know for sure, so I'd hook him up to a machine and ask him.

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I think you're being facetious?

Anyway, I can get over the crab legs and the eff her right in the P and the other stuff. I can't get over rape. So, if I was drafting him I'd want to know if he committed a heinous crime or if he just got caught up in a bad situation with an overzealous girl. They're the only two people who know for sure, so I'd hook him up to a machine and ask him.

No, I'd honestly forgotten.

I just don't think he has the demeanor to be a reliable NFL QB so I've kind of pushed him into "out of sight/out of mind" territory.

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From what I can tell, Winston is a far better prospect than any QB coming out of this years draft. I put Hundley at #2 far behind him. Mariota...nice kid, great athlete, wonderful college QB...but he's just the next RG3. Winston make multiple reads, is generally accurate, and has a nice pocket presence. He may not be a leader off the field, but he sure seems like one on the field. TB will be taking him. No doubt in my mind. All the other stuff...people will forget it if he handles himself correctly at the next level.

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But that's just it. An NFL QB is a sum of what he does both on and off the field.

It's easy to make the argument that Winston can play QB better than the rest of this year's crop. But that's just not enough considering the business investment that the position and player represent at the NFL level.

On the flip side, he seems like a guy that Lovie Smith deserves.

Edited by Andy Dufresne

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An NFL QB is a sum of what he does both on and off the field seems like something Tony Kornheiser or Mitch Albom would write. Hot takes.

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Which NFL team is best fit for Jameis Winston?

By Nate Davis, USA Today Sports 10:59 p.m. CST January 7, 2015

To no one's surprise, former Heisman Trophy winner Jameis Winston is headed from Florida State to the NFL draft (and for his sake, hopefully going pro one year removed from winning the Heisman goes better for Winston than it did predecessor Johnny Manziel).

The Seminoles star, who won all of his collegiate starts until FSU faltered to Oregon in the Rose Bowl earlier this month, will certainly be heavily scrutinized during the pre-draft process given all the problems that have trailed him off the field. Nevertheless, it's doubtful there will be a shortage of suitors in the NFL, where bottom-feeding teams are typically desperate for QB help.

A look at some possible destinations for Winston:

1. Tampa Bay Buccaneers: They currently hold the 2015 draft's top pick and have an obvious need under center. The Bucs have weapons — WRs Vincent Jackson and Mike Evans and TE Austin Seferian-Jenkins along with backfield talent — that could help Winston flourish relatively early, and coach Lovie Smith's defense showed signs of life late in the year as they transitioned to his scheme. And remaining in Florida in a relatively small media market might be a plus for Winston's development off the field.

2. Tennessee Titans: If Tampa Bay ends up with squeaky clean Marcus Mariota at No. 1, the Titans would have the next crack at Winston. Frankly, Winston's 6-4, 230-pound frame, accuracy and ability to move in (and out of) the pocket would probably make him a better fit than Mariota for the offense run by Tennessee's Ken Whisenhunt. The coach's best seasons have come with the assistance of Ben Roethlisberger, Kurt Warner and Philip Rivers, who all share some physical attributes with Winston.

3. Houston Texans: Despite a revolving door at quarterback, they finished a win shy of reaching postseason in coach Bill O'Brien's first year. Journeyman Ryan Fitzpatrick is no long-term answer but is under contract for 2015 to potentially fill the mentor/temporary starter role. (Ryan Mallett is a free agent while Case Keenum and Tom Savage are largely unknown commodities.) Hard-charging O'Brien, an accomplished developer of quarterbacks and no-nonsense type of guy, may be the perfect teacher for Winston, who could also lean on a veteran-laden locker room to keep him on the straight and narrow.

4. New York Jets: Gotham and everything it has to offer to a rich 21-year-old would certainly set off the klaxons in regard to Winston. But the Jets have been rolling the dice for decades seeking the heir apparent to Joe Namath and will doubtless continue doing so until they stop coming up with snake eyes. Still, difficult at this juncture to weigh the obvious need at the position for the J-E-T-S against the unknowns in their building with the head coach and general manager posts still unfilled.

5. Chicago Bears: Like the Jets, the Bears are currently in flux given their leadership vacuum. But we do know the offense can run like a Ferrari if seated by the proper driver, which apparently is not Jay Cutler.

6. Cleveland Browns: GM Ray Farmer has said the team is open to drafting another quarterback after Manziel's debacle of a rookie year. And Farmer has the ammunition (and/or luxury) to do so given Cleveland is armed with multiple Round 1 selections this year. But though Winston's skill set appears far more adaptable to the NFL than Manziel's, do the Browns really want to add another ring to the circus and possibly have two immature quarterbacks jostling to lead them where they hope to go?

7. St. Louis Rams: This team is only a quarterback away from contending. Sam Bradford has a year remaining on his contract, but he's probably bringing more questions than answers to the table at this point. If Winston lands here, he'd benefit from talent on the O-line and at running back, a combo that theoretically would limit pressure on him. And coach Jeff Fisher has historically done a good job of weaving talented young players with, ahem, red flags into his program. And think about this: If the Rams do eventually bolt back to Los Angeles, wouldn't it be nice to potentially have a leading man ready for the Hollywood marquee?

8. Buffalo Bills: Kyle Orton is gone. EJ Manuel, Winston's former FSU teammate, is there but lost the confidence of the coaches and was benched in 2014. The Bills are probably a playoff team with middling quarterback play given the presence of dynamic WR Sammy Watkins, however he cost Buffalo its 2015 first-round pick. That makes GM Doug Whaley's ability to target Winston dim at best.

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An NFL QB is a sum of what he does both on and off the field seems like something Tony Kornheiser or Mitch Albom would write. Hot takes.

I apologize.

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All the other stuff...people will forget it if he handles himself correctly at the next level.

No doubt. Hope he's not planning on doing anything people might misconstrue at not handling himself correctly.

Like attending a nightclub.

Or a sporting event.

Or taking a picture with another celebrity.

Or using Twitter.

Or Instagram.

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Jameis doesn't have a history of drug use, he doesn't have a history with weapons (not counting bb gun incident), he doesn't have any battery charges, or domestic violence issues, etc.

He isn't a saint, but it's not like he is a gang banger. I don't see Jameis becoming a Pacman Jones, and even he has been able to improve his image a little.

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Jameis doesn't have a history of drug use, he doesn't have a history with weapons (not counting bb gun incident), he doesn't have any battery charges, or domestic violence issues, etc.

He isn't a saint, but it's not like he is a gang banger. I don't see Jameis becoming a Pacman Jones, and even he has been able to improve his image a little.

All that was true of Manziel as well.

You think Winston gets the benefit of the doubt?

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JF never even saw a play book in college and is lazy, among other drastic differences that make him a terrible comp.

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Jameis doesn't have a history of drug use, he doesn't have a history with weapons (not counting bb gun incident), he doesn't have any battery charges, or domestic violence issues, etc.

He isn't a saint, but it's not like he is a gang banger. I don't see Jameis becoming a Pacman Jones, and even he has been able to improve his image a little.

All that was true of Manziel as well.

You think Winston gets the benefit of the doubt?

Manziel had a history of alcohol abuse and his family pressed his coaches at A&M to get him put into alcohol and anger management.

Add Jameis has prototypical NFL size, had a playbook at FSU, and operated an offense out of a Pro Set but Johnny with his history and off-field antics still wound up going in the first round.

Had Manziel the size and wasn't another system spread QB he would have been #1 with a bullet in last year's draft and I think their is a high probability that Jameis goes #1 if he able to remain out of trouble through the draft process.

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We're talking about different things.

I'm making the point that Manziel came into the league with people that hated him, people armed with camera phones and Twitter accounts. And they hated him because he was popular, and enjoyed his celebrity. I mean really, until he actually played, what other reason was there?

Winston is going to be disliked as well, and if he gets drafted before Mariota?? He'll get no muligans from anyone, and will really be in a no-win situation, from a PR standpoint.

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Jameis doesn't have a history of drug use, he doesn't have a history with weapons (not counting bb gun incident), he doesn't have any battery charges, or domestic violence issues, etc.

He isn't a saint, but it's not like he is a gang banger. I don't see Jameis becoming a Pacman Jones, and even he has been able to improve his image a little.

Possibly a rapist, however. :shrug:

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Jameis doesn't have a history of drug use, he doesn't have a history with weapons (not counting bb gun incident), he doesn't have any battery charges, or domestic violence issues, etc.

He isn't a saint, but it's not like he is a gang banger. I don't see Jameis becoming a Pacman Jones, and even he has been able to improve his image a little.

Possibly a rapist, however. :shrug:

And a thief...

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We're talking about different things.

I'm making the point that Manziel came into the league with people that hated him, people armed with camera phones and Twitter accounts. And they hated him because he was popular, and enjoyed his celebrity. I mean really, until he actually played, what other reason was there?

Winston is going to be disliked as well, and if he gets drafted before Mariota?? He'll get no muligans from anyone, and will really be in a no-win situation, from a PR standpoint.

I wasn't addressing what the public holds up as popular.

I was addressing how NFL front offices rate and draft NFL prospects.

Manziel didn't get drafted in the first round only due to being popular. That is a selling point to non-football people guys and unfortunately many of those big ego non-football guys own NFL franchises and lean on their personnel people but it boils down to need and real evaluation.

Johnny had the highest selling jersey even before he was drafted so he was/is a special phenomenon even by NFL standards.

Jameis will get drafted higher than Manziel unless he completely soils the bed with some off-field issue before the draft of if some other information surfaces of other off-field shenanigans that we don't know about but he was cleared by FSU on the biggest off-field thing he was accused of. Big Ben seems to have gotten away with that same allegation and other sundry accusations involving his member.

We know he is a soda pop and crab leg thief who also shot a pellet gun.

Will he be lambasted if he doesn't perform? Yeah he will and should and he'll take grief for any off-field issues he might have and he should but if he performs then look no further than Big Ben to see how a despicable human is able to play in the NFL without getting grief he deserves if he plays well.

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Winston does not have a clear history of felonious activity. He was accused of sexual assault but never prosecuted. Let's completely take that out of the discussion for now.

He does have a clear history of immaturity, arrogance and foolishness. Is that particularly unique or wrong? No.

So what's the 'character concern'? That he hasn't really learned. Despite his mea culpa press conferences and public declarations of needing to grow up he continued to do some d bag stuff. He's got big man on campus syndrome.

My concern isn't that he's gonna be lazy or do something illegal. It's honestly that he's a Jay Cutler type. Talented, cocky, arrogant and unwilling to humble himself. He's gonna be asked to lead 22-35 year old grown men who have wives and kids and have been in the league and don't find him particularly impressive or cool.

Just like you look for traits in a player's physical game (arm strength, pocket awareness, progression reading) that show a team there's enough of a base from which to build, you look for personal traits that will help you project what kind of a leader and teammate and citizen that player will be. Winston's not a thug. He's not a criminal (probably). He's kind of a punk kid. Any team would absolutely prefer he wasn't.

Edited by mr roboto

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An NFL QB is a sum of what he does both on and off the field seems like something Tony Kornheiser or Mitch Albom would write. Hot takes.

I just googled "Peyton Manning sexual harassment" because I remembered that story and it seems like everyone has forgotten it. Apparently several people have written articles on it comparing him to Winston. None of what Jameis has done off the field is something that really bothers me. I remember what I was like when I was 20.

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I don't particularly like the guy, but I'd take a chance on him if I was Tampa. Taking a QB (or anyone for that matter) at the top of the draft doesn't cost anything close to what it once did. Can't win in today's NFL without a good QB.

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Rotoworld:

An NFC North scout speaking with NFL.com said Florida State redshirt sophomore QB Jameis Winston made the right decision in declaring for the draft.

"Jameis made the only decision he could," the scout said. "He's losing (Rashad) Greene, (Nick) O'Leary and four starters up front. Why come back with those guys all gone?" If the draft were held today, Winston would be a heavy favorite to go in the top two. He's not a lock to go in the top five because of off-field concerns, though it would be something of a shock if he fell out of the top 10 due to his All-Pro potential. "Winston took a substantial step back this season in every statistical category imaginable despite returning several offensive starters," wrote NFL.com's draft team. "Florida State will lose its top two receiving threats and 80 percent of the offensive line that has blocked for Winston over the last two seasons. Some scouts think Winston is unlikely to improve his stock next season. His announcement would indicate Winston feels the same."
Source: NFL.com
Jan 8 - 3:48 PM

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Rotoworld:

Jameis Winston - QB - Seminoles

A veteran offensive coach told ESPN that he sees the top of the draft similarly to 1998, with Marcus Mariota as Peyton Manning, and Florida State redshirt sophomore QB Jameis Winston as Ryan Leaf.

"Leaf checked out in terms of his ability to be a prototypical NFL passer except for one thing -- the baggage part," the coach said. Winston's off-field transgressions have earned him comps to Leaf and Johnny Manziel, but context is key here. Winston's off-field issues heading into the draft are more severe than Leaf and Manziel's were, though his on-field maturity and pro potential are both superior. "You either want to draft clones or you stay away from him," a veteran defensive coach said. "He is a Manziel clone in terms of maturity. Remember when Manziel went to Vegas? There is nothing wrong with going to Vegas. We all like going to Vegas. The problem is, he [screwed] it up even worse during the season, getting into fights and all that. Winston and Manziel are different players, but you will not change maturity overnight. You are looking into who is in Jameis' circle and how big of a change it's going to be with lots of money and lots of free time."

Source: ESPN Insider

Jan 9 - 4:29 PM

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I've seen too many times where people take this holier than thou stance with fantasy football. Guy has talent. If he doesn't put it together it will be because of his work ethic, motivation and discipline. Maybe the off field stuff happens, maybe it doesn't. No bigger risk than anyone else from a FF standpoint. An injury is just as likely as an off field incident so... is it something to take into account? Sure, but in the same vein as a Ryan Matthews or Fred Taylor. No reason to shoot yourself in the foot because you think your fantasy team has some sort of moral obligation. Real life and from the Bucs perspective I'd be a little leery but I'd shoot for the moon anyway because the guy is probably the only pedigree QB with the skill set teams kill for. If people want to crush him for his collegiate troubles and because Johnny Football is bad at NFL QB so be it but he is no Johnny Football in skill set. He is ideal in all facets as a thrower. The people who said Johnny was Flutie were right. I thought he would just be taken down a notch in the pros but he can't see over the line, has zero accuracy, below average arm strength and has zero work ethic to make up for his deficiencies. At very least Jameis has size, arm strength and accuracy. If he does have a 10 cent head he has a long way to go but Terry Bradshaw and Dan Marino are HOF'ers so even that can be overcome.

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^You do realize that people come here not just for FF right? Also, how many FF points can a suspended or benched player give you?

I don't thjnk there's been very many 'my FF team is full of choirboys so I won't be drafting Winston' posts here.

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^You do realize that people come here not just for FF right? Also, how many FF points can a suspended or benched player give you?

I don't thjnk there's been very many 'my FF team is full of choirboys so I won't be drafting Winston' posts here.

I addressed both FF and real life... not sure what your problem with my post is and I do see quite a bit of nose thumbing around here. Happens with Josh Gordon, happened with Randy Moss and in general it happens with any troublesome player but 9/10 when the lights are on those guys go play. I also addressed your point about suspended/bench players giving you a 0. So do injured players, it amounts to the same thing as being injury prone to me. Another factor to weigh in but not weigh down a player. Now that I think about it, did you read my post at all or just one sentence?

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Yes I read your post. It was very rambling and hard to follow but here's what I read.

Don't be 'holier than thou' playing ff (you referred to this twice). Winston has no more risk of having significant off field issues than anyone else (lol ok). The only way he fails is through a lack of hard work or discipline (these are actually two of the character points that no one questions). Something Ryan Matthews. Then something about Bradshaw and Marino. In the middle there you did say that if you were the Bucs you'd be a little leery but despite that shoot for the moon.

Your post flippantly disgarded the risks associated with a guy like Winston (except for your on 'little leery' comment). If that's your opinion fine - but it has nothing to do with whether someone would draft him in FF.

It's like you took a bunch of cliches and just threw them together in a relatively non-cogent paragraph.

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Yes I read your post. It was very rambling and hard to follow but here's what I read.

Don't be 'holier than thou' playing ff (you referred to this twice). Winston has no more risk of having significant off field issues than anyone else (lol ok). The only way he fails is through a lack of hard work or discipline (these are actually two of the character points that no one questions). Something Ryan Matthews. Then something about Bradshaw and Marino. In the middle there you did say that if you were the Bucs you'd be a little leery but despite that shoot for the moon.

Your post flippantly disgarded the risks associated with a guy like Winston (except for your on 'little leery' comment). If that's your opinion fine - but it has nothing to do with whether someone would draft him in FF.

It's like you took a bunch of cliches and just threw them together in a relatively non-cogent paragraph.

Sure, guy. Have a good night.

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^You do realize that people come here not just for FF right? Also, how many FF points can a suspended or benched player give you?

I don't thjnk there's been very many 'my FF team is full of choirboys so I won't be drafting Winston' posts here.

I addressed both FF and real life... not sure what your problem with my post is and I do see quite a bit of nose thumbing around here. Happens with Josh Gordon, happened with Randy Moss and in general it happens with any troublesome player but 9/10 when the lights are on those guys go play. I also addressed your point about suspended/bench players giving you a 0. So do injured players, it amounts to the same thing as being injury prone to me. Another factor to weigh in but not weigh down a player. Now that I think about it, did you read my post at all or just one sentence?

Yes, at other positions but who was the last QB with the type of off the field issues like Winston has who did well?

Edited by cstu

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^You do realize that people come here not just for FF right? Also, how many FF points can a suspended or benched player give you?

I don't thjnk there's been very many 'my FF team is full of choirboys so I won't be drafting Winston' posts here.

I addressed both FF and real life... not sure what your problem with my post is and I do see quite a bit of nose thumbing around here. Happens with Josh Gordon, happened with Randy Moss and in general it happens with any troublesome player but 9/10 when the lights are on those guys go play. I also addressed your point about suspended/bench players giving you a 0. So do injured players, it amounts to the same thing as being injury prone to me. Another factor to weigh in but not weigh down a player. Now that I think about it, did you read my post at all or just one sentence?

Yes, at other positions but who was the last QB with the type of off the field issues like Winston has who did well?

Cam Newton

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The only way he fails is through a lack of hard work or discipline (these are actually two of the character points that no one questions).

Lots of people question these things, and indeed, they are virtually the only way to explain his constant early game struggles against mediocre competition, despite always being the most physically gifted player on the field. I.e., that he's never prepared because he's either too lazy to do the work, or toò stupid to understand what he's supposed to be doing.

His "reputation" as a hard-working, intelligent guy has pretty much been blown up and excused as PR fabrication at this point. Coming into every game underprepped annihilated one talking point, and listening to him as he foolisly opened his mouth time and time again annihilated the other.

He's a physical marvel the school and his handlers have tried to PR into a bankable commodity -- the school, so they could keep him on the field, his handlers so they could profit off his pro potential.

But if you're going to be sold as high IQ guy who's dedicated to the game, and not some slickly marketed fraud with manufactured academic credentials and a phony work ethic, sooner or later you have to do something smart, or say something smart, or show up to a game ready enough that you don't struggle against Kentucky or Louisville, and don't crap the bed in the biggest game of the year.

People who aren't questioning this kid's mind and motivation have been asleep all year. His entire 2014 reads like a guy who's already banked his signing bonus and decided to take the rest of his life off.

It's not about what he's done off the field. It's about the mind that led him to do it, and whether you can expect more bad decision making going forward. Everything both off AND on the field this year is a giant red flag about how JW's brain works.

I wouldn't step up to be the GM who hung this guy on my ownership's payroll. Seems like a good way to find yourself looking for a job.

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Man there is SO MUCH wrong with that previous post I literally wouldn't even know where to start.

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Cam didn't have nearly the type of off-the-field issues that Winston has had.

Cam's personality rubbed people the wrong way but his issues were buying a stolen laptop (not nearly as stupid and brazen as stealing crab legs from a store), cheating on tests, and receiving money from boosters.

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Jameis doesn't have a history of drug use, he doesn't have a history with weapons (not counting bb gun incident), he doesn't have any battery charges, or domestic violence issues, etc.

He isn't a saint, but it's not like he is a gang banger. I don't see Jameis becoming a Pacman Jones, and even he has been able to improve his image a little.

Possibly a rapist, however. :shrug:

And a thief...

You're talking about the crab legs?? They were paid for. By a booster. Winston can't admit to that so he had to falsely claim he stole them to cover his a##. A thief he is not. A miscreant? A degenerate? To this point in time sure. A thief? No.

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Jameis doesn't have a history of drug use, he doesn't have a history with weapons (not counting bb gun incident), he doesn't have any battery charges, or domestic violence issues, etc.

He isn't a saint, but it's not like he is a gang banger. I don't see Jameis becoming a Pacman Jones, and even he has been able to improve his image a little.

Possibly a rapist, however. :shrug:

And a thief...
You're talking about the crab legs?? They were paid for. By a booster. Winston can't admit to that so he had to falsely claim he stole them to cover his a##. A thief he is not. A miscreant? A degenerate? To this point in time sure. A thief? No.

What? Where did you get that story from?

The video clearly shows him picking up the crab legs from the meat counter and then walking out of the store, with security following him out immediately. Your version makes absolutely no sense. This kid thinks everything is owed to him and that incident proved it. He's going to be the guy that gets pulled over and says "Don't you know who I am?"

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As far as the post of "hung him on ownership's payroll", the NFL has taken that out of the equation. If the Redskins thought RGIII was completely done he is only counting $3.5 million against their payroll. This is no longer the league of Jamarcus Russell taking the few years he is active and the next decade out of the teams sails.

With that being said, it won't be an easy decision for TB. The eye ball test tells me Winston is better and that seems to be a pretty universal thought around here. Comparing Winston/Mariota to Manning/Leaf is unfair to both players. Mariota has a Tim Tebow intangible reputation with a greater repertoire and more speed, while Jamies is a natural pocket passer with great tools. I think Mariota has the better floor and Winston the higher ceiling.

Lovie has always gotten his players to be professionals. I don't want to give undue credit but Chicago is where Brandon Marshall finally got his head screwed on straight. People like to point out the Mariota/Koetter connection but if he preferred the way Matt Ryan ran his offense I see much of the same skill set in Winston.

I anticipate this being a pretty heated debate leading up to the draft. I think it would be nice if both players succeed in their respective styles because they've both been a lot of fun to watch in college.

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As far as the post of "hung him on ownership's payroll", the NFL has taken that out of the equation. If the Redskins thought RGIII was completely done he is only counting $3.5 million against their payroll. This is no longer the league of Jamarcus Russell taking the few years he is active and the next decade out of the teams sails.

With that being said, it won't be an easy decision for TB. The eye ball test tells me Winston is better and that seems to be a pretty universal thought around here. Comparing Winston/Mariota to Manning/Leaf is unfair to both players. Mariota has a Tim Tebow intangible reputation with a greater repertoire and more speed, while Jamies is a natural pocket passer with great tools. I think Mariota has the better floor and Winston the higher ceiling.

Lovie has always gotten his players to be professionals. I don't want to give undue credit but Chicago is where Brandon Marshall finally got his head screwed on straight. People like to point out the Mariota/Koetter connection but if he preferred the way Matt Ryan ran his offense I see much of the same skill set in Winston.

I anticipate this being a pretty heated debate leading up to the draft. I think it would be nice if both players succeed in their respective styles because they've both been a lot of fun to watch in college.

Marshall didn't "get his head screwed on straight," he had an undiagnosed and untreated mental illness that he finally sought treatment for. Lovie seems like a good guy, but he didn't have anything to do with Marshall turning his life around.

And I don't think Winston's problem is mental illness. I think it's immaturity, selfishness, ego and entitlement.

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Jameis doesn't have a history of drug use, he doesn't have a history with weapons (not counting bb gun incident), he doesn't have any battery charges, or domestic violence issues, etc.

He isn't a saint, but it's not like he is a gang banger. I don't see Jameis becoming a Pacman Jones, and even he has been able to improve his image a little.

Possibly a rapist, however. :shrug:

And a thief...
You're talking about the crab legs?? They were paid for. By a booster. Winston can't admit to that so he had to falsely claim he stole them to cover his a##. A thief he is not. A miscreant? A degenerate? To this point in time sure. A thief? No.
What? Where did you get that story from?

The video clearly shows him picking up the crab legs from the meat counter and then walking out of the store, with security following him out immediately. Your version makes absolutely no sense. This kid thinks everything is owed to him and that incident proved it. He's going to be the guy that gets pulled over and says "Don't you know who I am?"

I got that story from common sense. Did you see how long he was at that counter? Literally was a 3 second transaction. That food was prepared for him. Idk...Maybe I'm giving the kid too much credit, but I'd like to think some mix-up about the payment occurred than to think he's dumb enough to just grab something and leave without paying for it.

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Jameis doesn't have a history of drug use, he doesn't have a history with weapons (not counting bb gun incident), he doesn't have any battery charges, or domestic violence issues, etc.

He isn't a saint, but it's not like he is a gang banger. I don't see Jameis becoming a Pacman Jones, and even he has been able to improve his image a little.

Possibly a rapist, however. :shrug:

And a thief...

You're talking about the crab legs?? They were paid for. By a booster. Winston can't admit to that so he had to falsely claim he stole them to cover his a##. A thief he is not. A miscreant? A degenerate? To this point in time sure. A thief? No.

As he was leaving the store, Winston appeared to pause in front of a Leon County deputy who was working in-store security detail at the time. The pause, the incident report said, appeared to be an attempt to avoid walking in front of the deputy. He said Winston then walked behind the deputy, past all registers and out of the store.

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If your main concern is him stealing crab legs you should probably stop watching the nfl.

Edited by Capella

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If your main concern is him stealing crab legs you should probably stop watching the nfl.

Main concern is that he's an idiot.

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If your main concern is him stealing crab legs you should probably stop watching the nfl.

Main concern is that he's an idiot.

Exactly.

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As far as the post of "hung him on ownership's payroll", the NFL has taken that out of the equation. If the Redskins thought RGIII was completely done he is only counting $3.5 million against their payroll. This is no longer the league of Jamarcus Russell taking the few years he is active and the next decade out of the teams sails.

With that being said, it won't be an easy decision for TB. The eye ball test tells me Winston is better and that seems to be a pretty universal thought around here. Comparing Winston/Mariota to Manning/Leaf is unfair to both players. Mariota has a Tim Tebow intangible reputation with a greater repertoire and more speed, while Jamies is a natural pocket passer with great tools. I think Mariota has the better floor and Winston the higher ceiling.

Lovie has always gotten his players to be professionals. I don't want to give undue credit but Chicago is where Brandon Marshall finally got his head screwed on straight. People like to point out the Mariota/Koetter connection but if he preferred the way Matt Ryan ran his offense I see much of the same skill set in Winston.

I anticipate this being a pretty heated debate leading up to the draft. I think it would be nice if both players succeed in their respective styles because they've both been a lot of fun to watch in college.

Winston is talented but I feel like his INT's are being overlooked.

I wasn't able to find a successful QB who had a 3.3% INT rate their final two years in college.

My feeling is that he's going to be a pick machine in the NFL.

ETA: I did 'sort of' find one, the last QB the Bucs took 1st overall - Vinny Testeverde (3.8%).

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Fair point and NFL teams are majorly turnover adverse these days. The only saving grace is that there arn't too many comparable cases of guys coming out as sophomores. So there may be some skew there in taking his only two years of college. The argument can also be made the only guys I can think of in comparison to come out this early are Maddox and Manziel. That doesn't bode well for Winston either, even if that is a small sample.

Edited by Bojang0301

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If your main concern is him stealing crab legs you should probably stop watching the nfl.

Main concern is that he's an idiot.

And a probable sex offender.

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Fair point and NFL teams are majorly turnover adverse these days. The only saving grace is that there arn't too many comparable cases of guys coming out as sophomores. So there may be some skew there in taking his only two years of college. The argument can also be made the only guys I can think of in comparison to come out this early are Maddox and Manziel. That doesn't bode well for Winston either, even if that is a small sample.

Didn't realize there were so few:

Since 1970 only four redshirt sophomore quarterbacks bypassed their remaining two years of college eligibility and went on to be first round picks: Manziel (2014), Mike Vick (2001), Tommy Maddox (1992) and Todd Marinovich (1991).

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