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Former Tampa Bay GM Mark Dominik says that he would take Marcus Mariota over Jamies Winston and gives his reasons but at the end of this article it has a direct quote from Todd McShay where he says that Jamies Winston has the second highest rating he has given any QB coming out in the last decade, second only to Andrew Luck. He punctuates that statement topping it off by saying their is nobody else in-between. Hmnnnn.

http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/bucs/ex-bucs-gm-mark-dominik-would-select-mariota-over-winston/2216585

Ex-Bucs GM Mark Dominik would select Mariota over Winston

Oregon quarterback Marcus Mariota would likely be the Bucs' No. 1 overall pick over Florida State's Jameis Winston if the decision was left to Mark Dominik.

The former Bucs' general manager, who now works as a NFL analyst for ESPN, said Thursday there isn't enough of a difference in talent between the Heisman Trophy winners to risk the potential off-field problems Winston brings.

Todd McShay, ESPN's draft expert, has the Bucs taking Winston with the first pick in his latest mock draft. In his first mock, McShay had Mariota going to the Bucs.

"I think you take Mariota. That's who I would take right now,'' Dominik said. "To me, the talent level is not that different. Mariota has got a quick release, they're both very smart, they both understand offenses, they both get the ball out, there's a lot things that are very similar. But the thing that's different is the fact that there's an X factor in Winston right now. If you don't feel comfortable saying he's the face of the franchise, I don't think the difference is enough to sit there and say you don't take Mariota.''

Winston was accused but never charged of sexual assault and had several other comparitively minor infractions off the field at Florida State. Dominik, who served as the Bucs GM from 2009-13, said the Bucs have to determine whether they can trust Winston.

"They've got to find out whether or not they can trust him to be the face of the franchise and hold that up to the level you have to in the National Football League ,'' Dominik said of Winston. "I think the main way to do that is a couple questions. The first thing I would ask him is give me a reason why I can trust you. Show me something you've done in the last three months why I can trust you. Then I would follow it up with, "Okay, now give me another one.' Because I want to see if he's really working at it because that's the most important thing about Jameis Winston, is whether or not you can trust him to run your organization.''

McShay said only the Colts Andrew Luck has been as productive from the pocket as Winston among quarterbacks who have entered the NFL in the past 10 years.

"The Bucs and every other team -- Tennessee, Washington, the New York Jets, the Houston Texans -- any team that's considering a quarterback and even some that are not, are going to go through the process of investigating him and going through the psychological process, bringing him for interviews, making him take psychological tests, they want every bit of information they can gather,'' McShay said. "At the end of the day, if you're comfortable with it, and ultimately if you feel you can trust Jameis Winston to be the face of your franchise, then it goes to on the field. And on the field, I think there's a big gap between Marcus Mariota and Jameis Winston. Winston does things from inside the pocket, where you have to win in the NFL, that very few others really you ever see them coming out of the college level do, and that's why I say purely from on the field, I think the grade for Jameis Winston is just behind Andrew Luck's in the last 10 years. There's nobody else in between.''

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I say purely from on the field, I think the grade for Jameis Winston is just behind Andrew Luck's in the last 10 years. There's nobody else in between.''

19 INT's.

McShay is :crazy:

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I say purely from on the field, I think the grade for Jameis Winston is just behind Andrew Luck's in the last 10 years. There's nobody else in between.''

19 INT's.

McShay is :crazy:

Peyton Manning had 28 INTs his rookie season. Andrew Luck turned the ball over a lot last year with 20 combined turnovers (16 INTs and 4 fumbles). Luck had 18 interceptions his rookie season.

Those guys had high turnover seasons early in their careers because they are aggressive and they take chances. Peyton had high turnover percentages while he was learning and right now Luck has high turnovers. High turnovers shows aggressiveness, taking chances means they are ATTACKING the defense trying to make things happen and it tends to happen early in careers when guys are learning.

High INT did not mean Peyton Manning or Andrew Luck Luck were bad and it doesn't mean Jamies Winston is either.

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I say purely from on the field, I think the grade for Jameis Winston is just behind Andrew Luck's in the last 10 years. There's nobody else in between.''

19 INT's.

McShay is :crazy:

Yes, he's the crazy one, not the guy looking solely at INTs.

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I say purely from on the field, I think the grade for Jameis Winston is just behind Andrew Luck's in the last 10 years. There's nobody else in between.''

19 INT's.

McShay is :crazy:

How many great QB prospects have entered the league in the last 10 years?

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Rotoworld:

Jameis Winston - QB - Seminoles

Florida State redshirt sophomore QB Jameis Winston could go No. 1 overall, according to ESPN's Mel Kiper.

That said, Kiper also believes Winston's off-field maturity issues could "cost him the chance to go in the top five." As with all other evaluators, Kiper is smitten with Winston's on-field ability. He isn't overly concerned with Winston's 18 interceptions this season, calling some of them "mistakes of aggression because he can make pretty much every throw and always sees opportunities." Kiper also pointed out that Matt Ryan threw 19 picks his last year at Boston College before going No. 3 overall. The analyst called Winston "the most advanced QB in this class," a "special talent" and said the signal-caller's big frame will provide Winston with the "assumption of durability" that "has a great deal of value." The analyst concluded: "At this point, Winston is a possibility at No. 1. But after the season he had, on the field and off, the variance right now feels pretty high."

Source: ESPN Insider

Jan 7 - 6:40 PM

Mel Kiper declared Jimmy Clausen the most NFL ready QB in the draft the year the Panthers took him. Going to be all world. Turns out he was friends with Jimmy's agent and was just helping a friend out. I can't believe this guy still has a job or that anyone cares one bit about his alleged expert opinion.

We shouldn't listen to any draft expert that gets an opinion wrong, amirite?

At least the ones that admit they lie for agents.

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I say purely from on the field, I think the grade for Jameis Winston is just behind Andrew Luck's in the last 10 years. There's nobody else in between.''

19 INT's.

McShay is :crazy:

How many great QB prospects have entered the league in the last 10 years?

Cam Newton, Stafford, Griffin.

Winston (ignoring character) is on-par with Matt Ryan and Bortles as a prospect.

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I say purely from on the field, I think the grade for Jameis Winston is just behind Andrew Luck's in the last 10 years. There's nobody else in between.''

19 INT's.

McShay is :crazy:

How many great QB prospects have entered the league in the last 10 years?

Cam Newton, Stafford, Griffin.

Winston (ignoring character) is on-par with Matt Ryan and Bortles as a prospect.

:lmao: :lmao:

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I say purely from on the field, I think the grade for Jameis Winston is just behind Andrew Luck's in the last 10 years. There's nobody else in between.''

19 INT's.

McShay is :crazy:

How many great QB prospects have entered the league in the last 10 years?

Cam Newton, Stafford, Griffin.

Winston (ignoring character) is on-par with Matt Ryan and Bortles as a prospect.

I don't see it as an outrageous position to take, ranking Winston ahead of Newton, Stafford or Griffin - even if one was to disagree.

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I say purely from on the field, I think the grade for Jameis Winston is just behind Andrew Luck's in the last 10 years. There's nobody else in between.''

19 INT's.

McShay is :crazy:

How many great QB prospects have entered the league in the last 10 years?

Cam Newton, Stafford, Griffin.

Winston (ignoring character) is on-par with Matt Ryan and Bortles as a prospect.

I don't see it as an outrageous position to take, ranking Winston ahead of Newton, Stafford or Griffin - even if one was to disagree.

Crazy is hyperbole but I don't see it. He doesn't have the running ability of Newton/Griffin or the arm of Stafford. His INT's make him a big question mark to me.

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I say purely from on the field, I think the grade for Jameis Winston is just behind Andrew Luck's in the last 10 years. There's nobody else in between.''

19 INT's.

McShay is :crazy:

How many great QB prospects have entered the league in the last 10 years?

Cam Newton, Stafford, Griffin.

Winston (ignoring character) is on-par with Matt Ryan and Bortles as a prospect.

I don't see it as an outrageous position to take, ranking Winston ahead of Newton, Stafford or Griffin - even if one was to disagree.

Crazy is hyperbole but I don't see it. He doesn't have the running ability of Newton/Griffin or the arm of Stafford. His INT's make him a big question mark to me.

And he is going to throw more in the NFL. He throws late. A lot. In college you get away with it. In the Pros they take it to the house. Watching film on Benjamin when we drafted him I noticed how often he sat down and then waited on the ball. Winston has some real work to do to be what some in this thread are making him out to be.

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someone needs to tell Matt it's notpronounced Ja-May-Us. It's pronounced Jay-mus.

Edited by Quez

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I say purely from on the field, I think the grade for Jameis Winston is just behind Andrew Luck's in the last 10 years. There's nobody else in between.''

19 INT's.

McShay is :crazy:

How many great QB prospects have entered the league in the last 10 years?

Cam Newton, Stafford, Griffin.

Winston (ignoring character) is on-par with Matt Ryan and Bortles as a prospect.

I don't see it as an outrageous position to take, ranking Winston ahead of Newton, Stafford or Griffin - even if one was to disagree.

Crazy is hyperbole but I don't see it. He doesn't have the running ability of Newton/Griffin or the arm of Stafford. His INT's make him a big question mark to me.

And he is going to throw more in the NFL. He throws late. A lot. In college you get away with it. In the Pros they take it to the house. Watching film on Benjamin when we drafted him I noticed how often he sat down and then waited on the ball. Winston has some real work to do to be what some in this thread are making him out to be.

He doesn't throw late often at all. His big college problem was actually throwing to spots where he freshman wideout weren't getting to in time.

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I say purely from on the field, I think the grade for Jameis Winston is just behind Andrew Luck's in the last 10 years. There's nobody else in between.''

19 INT's.

McShay is :crazy:

How many great QB prospects have entered the league in the last 10 years?

Cam Newton, Stafford, Griffin.

Winston (ignoring character) is on-par with Matt Ryan and Bortles as a prospect.

I don't see it as an outrageous position to take, ranking Winston ahead of Newton, Stafford or Griffin - even if one was to disagree.

Crazy is hyperbole but I don't see it. He doesn't have the running ability of Newton/Griffin or the arm of Stafford. His INT's make him a big question mark to me.

And he is going to throw more in the NFL. He throws late. A lot. In college you get away with it. In the Pros they take it to the house. Watching film on Benjamin when we drafted him I noticed how often he sat down and then waited on the ball. Winston has some real work to do to be what some in this thread are making him out to be.

He doesn't throw late often at all. His big college problem was actually throwing to spots where he freshman wideout weren't getting to in time.

That's not what the film shows. You can see receivers sitting down and the ball comes late on a regular basis. I watched a lot of it when the Panthers drafted Benjamin.

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I say purely from on the field, I think the grade for Jameis Winston is just behind Andrew Luck's in the last 10 years. There's nobody else in between.''

19 INT's.

McShay is :crazy:

How many great QB prospects have entered the league in the last 10 years?

Cam Newton, Stafford, Griffin.

Winston (ignoring character) is on-par with Matt Ryan and Bortles as a prospect.

I don't see it as an outrageous position to take, ranking Winston ahead of Newton, Stafford or Griffin - even if one was to disagree.

Crazy is hyperbole but I don't see it. He doesn't have the running ability of Newton/Griffin or the arm of Stafford. His INT's make him a big question mark to me.

And he is going to throw more in the NFL. He throws late. A lot. In college you get away with it. In the Pros they take it to the house. Watching film on Benjamin when we drafted him I noticed how often he sat down and then waited on the ball. Winston has some real work to do to be what some in this thread are making him out to be.

He doesn't throw late often at all. His big college problem was actually throwing to spots where he freshman wideout weren't getting to in time.

That's not what the film shows. You can see receivers sitting down and the ball comes late on a regular basis. I watched a lot of it when the Panthers drafted Benjamin.

I've seen every game he's played. Many of them twice. There is no way you've seen him play more than me.

Matt Miller and plenty of others agree with his anticipation and throwing to a spot. Guess we'll see.

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Rotoworld:

ESPN's Pat Yasinskas has "heard" Bucs HC Lovie Smith prefers Jameis Winston over Marcus Mariota.

"From what I have gathered, Smith chose Dirk Koetter as his offensive coordinator over Marc Trestman," Yasinskas begins. "...Although Smith and Trestman had similar philosophies about how to run an offense, they disagreed on the quarterbacks. Trestman preferred Mariota." Jameis' offense and output is much easier to see working in the NFL: he worked through progressions from the pocket, displaying poise and patience, and even threw with anticipation. Yasinskas notes Lovie Smith "is the boss" in terms of these decisions, even saying Jameis "has a big edge."
Source: ESPN
Feb 11 - 12:11 PM

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Rotoworld:

ESPN's Pat Yasinskas has "heard" Bucs HC Lovie Smith prefers Jameis Winston over Marcus Mariota.

"From what I have gathered, Smith chose Dirk Koetter as his offensive coordinator over Marc Trestman," Yasinskas begins. "...Although Smith and Trestman had similar philosophies about how to run an offense, they disagreed on the quarterbacks. Trestman preferred Mariota." Jameis' offense and output is much easier to see working in the NFL: he worked through progressions from the pocket, displaying poise and patience, and even threw with anticipation. Yasinskas notes Lovie Smith "is the boss" in terms of these decisions, even saying Jameis "has a big edge."
Source: ESPN
Feb 11 - 12:11 PM

:thumbup:

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Rk 	Year 	Rnd 	Pick 		        Pos 	Tm 	From 	To 	AP1 	PB 	St 	CarAV 	G 	GS 	QBrec 	Cmp 	Att 	Yds 	TD 	Int 	Att 	Yds 	TD 	College/Univ1 	2011 	5 	160 	Nathan Enderle 	QB 	CHI 	2011 	2011 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 										Idaho2 	2010 	6 	181 	Dan LeFevour 	QB 	CHI 	2011 	2011 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 	0 										Central Michigan3 	2005 	4 	106 	Kyle Orton 	QB 	CHI 	2005 	2014 	0 	0 	5 	41 	87 	82 	42-40-0 	1613 	2712 	18037 	101 	69 	126 	296 	4 	Purdue4 	2004 	5 	148 	Craig Krenzel 	QB 	CHI 	2004 	2004 	0 	0 	0 	1 	6 	5 	3-2-0 	59 	127 	718 	3 	6 	18 	41 	0 	Ohio St.

In addition to these gems Lovie Smith gave up Orton, two 1st's, and a 3rd for Jay Cutler.

Can't argue with that QB track record.

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Because we all know Lovie is great at QB evaluation...........Josh McCown. If Lovie is able to follow through, it will at least expedite Winstons exit from the NFL. Therefore I approve since I never draft Bucs anyway.

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:lmao: Just breeze right over the part of the report about Koetter also preferring Winston...maybe no one else will notice it.

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:lmao: Just breeze right over the part of the report about Koetter also preferring Winston...maybe no one else will notice it.

:goodposting:

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:lmao: Just breeze right over the part of the report about Koetter also preferring Winston...maybe no one else will notice it.

:goodposting:

RIF:

"Dirk Koetter knows how to play with those kinds of guys under center." (Bucky Brooks)

Here's what Koetter himself had to say:

"Playing quarterback in the NFL, things are coming at you fast and furious and if you can't process information, it's tough to be successful," Koetter said. "Second would be toughness … because when you play quarterback in the NFL, you're going to have to demonstrate toughness on a daily basis and certainly every Sunday. Intelligence, arm strength, accuracy, mobility — those things are important as well. But the ability to process information and make great decisions would be No. 1 on my list."

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:lmao: Just breeze right over the part of the report about Koetter also preferring Winston...maybe no one else will notice it.

:goodposting:

RIF:

"Dirk Koetter knows how to play with those kinds of guys under center." (Bucky Brooks)

Here's what Koetter himself had to say:

"Playing quarterback in the NFL, things are coming at you fast and furious and if you can't process information, it's tough to be successful," Koetter said. "Second would be toughness … because when you play quarterback in the NFL, you're going to have to demonstrate toughness on a daily basis and certainly every Sunday. Intelligence, arm strength, accuracy, mobility — those things are important as well. But the ability to process information and make great decisions would be No. 1 on my list."

Great...Koetter must have more confidence in Winston's abilities in that regard than you, since he wants him.

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Why would any of us actually believe Lovie, Licht, Koetter, or other members of the organization is actually telling anyone in the media who they really want?

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Why would any of us actually believe Lovie, Licht, Koetter, or other members of the organization is actually telling anyone in the media who they really want?

I wouldn't be surprised at someone leaking who they prefer now, but also saying that could change.

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Why would any of us actually believe Lovie, Licht, Koetter, or other members of the organization is actually telling anyone in the media who they really want?

I wouldn't be surprised at someone leaking who they prefer now, but also saying that could change.

Bill Polian (Colts' GM for Manning/Leaf) was on ESPN last night and had some interesting thoughts. He said they had polled the entire scouting department and watched every snap for both QBs by this time in the process. They were neck and neck at this point. Then when the Colts started doing interviews Manning separated himself significantly. He expects something similar to happen here, which shouldn't be a surprise considering the two players available. :shrug:

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Are they neck and neck though?

Only 3 months left!

It's a good question. I have no idea. I'm glad they have two options, and honestly I don't have a preference. Just get the best guy, develop him, and win some freaking games.

I see Winston as the most ready to win right away, but Mariota has the biggest upside if he can learn the anticipation throws and improve his ball placement. I think Mariota will do everything in his power to be great. Winston reeks of "maxed out" and entitled to me sometimes. With the weapons on offense for this team and Mariota's running ability they would be very tough to stop. There's definitely risk there though that he won't learn those things, and Winston already has them. He could take those weapons and just throw darts all over the field. The Bucs are probably an 8-8 team right away with Winston.

I said in the Bucs thread I'm glad I don't have to make the decision. :shrug:

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The University's investigation into the case was less than acceptable. First they didn't do anything on the case for ten months until media pressure forced them to investigate. Then they used a booster for the FSU football program to look into the charge. The booster who was in charge of the case didn't take any DNA samples, he didn't interview Jamies Winston, he didn't interview Wintson's room mate who allegedly witnessed the incident and tried to intervene, and he didn't even bother to look at video tapes of the bar where the accuser claims that Wintson drugged her.

Heck they bothered to look the tapes of him walking off with crab legs so why not bother to look at the tapes for a much more serious crime? I'm sure an FSU football booster would want to get to the bottom of any rape allegation against the Heisman Trophy winner and the guy that lead his favorite team to the National Championship right?

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/16/sports/errors-in-inquiry-on-rape-allegations-against-fsu-jameis-winston.html?_r=1

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Pff, it's just rape. At least he is comfortable talking to the media.

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The University's investigation into the case was less than acceptable. First they didn't do anything on the case for ten months until media pressure forced them to investigate. Then they used a booster for the FSU football program to look into the charge. The booster who was in charge of the case didn't take any DNA samples, he didn't interview Jamies Winston, he didn't interview Wintson's room mate who allegedly witnessed the incident and tried to intervene, and he didn't even bother to look at video tapes of the bar where the accuser claims that Wintson drugged her.

Heck they bothered to look the tapes of him walking off with crab legs so why not bother to look at the tapes for a much more serious crime? I'm sure an FSU football booster would want to get to the bottom of any rape allegation against the Heisman Trophy winner and the guy that lead his favorite team to the National Championship right?

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/04/16/sports/errors-in-inquiry-on-rape-allegations-against-fsu-jameis-winston.html?_r=1

It's tough to read that and then get behind this guy as the face of your franchise.

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I say purely from on the field, I think the grade for Jameis Winston is just behind Andrew Luck's in the last 10 years. There's nobody else in between.''

McShay can only possibly be talking about 'grade'. Grade doesn't mean squat when you arrive at the NFL. As far as being able to play at the NFL level, Winston is sub par. Holds the ball too long and is an INT machine. When all is said and done, this guy will be long gone while Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, Ryan Tannehill, Cam Newton, Jay Cutler, Teddy Bridgewater and probably Andy Dalton will still starting be in the NFL.

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I love how his shadow is totally skinny and everybody ignores it. Best part.

Also, trying to portray a two sport athlete as lazy is kinda comical.

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I love how his shadow is totally skinny and everybody ignores it. Best part.

Also, trying to portray a two sport athlete as lazy is kinda comical.

I don't see any link, there. Laziness, in terms that matter for potential pro athletes, has everything to do with prep you do off the field. Even though that photo with the gut is a fake, it's also true Winston hasn't really pushed himself in terms of fitness. Any old shirtless photo of the hundreds you can find online will show that. And then it's about his prep, too. And the guy was constantly battling himself out of holes on the field that he dug himself into because he had no idea what was going on on the field in first halves.

Lots of multi-sport athletes in college. Kids like sports. There's still plenty of lazy ones.

I guess I hope Tampa takes him, for the fans who seem so rabid to get him on their team. I'd rather see him there than on a team I like. But I can't imagine hearing even one interview with the guy and then feeling anything but dread at giving up even a first day pick to get him. I feel like franchises that are even considering him in the first round are the kinds of franchises doomed to perpetual failure. But people like kids who did well in college, even if there are plenty of warning signs screaming disaster. :shrug:

Edited by Freelove
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I love how his shadow is totally skinny and everybody ignores it. Best part.

:lmao:

Skinniest shadow in the draft!

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