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Official Jameis Winston - football talk

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Jameis Winston completed 28-of-42 passes for 458 yards, four touchdowns, and one interception in Tampa Bay's Week 15 win over the Lions.

Winston became the first quarterback in league history to toss for 450 yards in consecutive outings, topping his career-high yardage (456) from last week's game against the Colts with the third-most passing yards (458) in Bucs history. The free-agent-to-be unsurprisingly opened the game with an interception on Tampa Bay's first possession but responded with a whopping 308 passing yards in the first half that included pitch-and-catch gains of 51, 34, 33, 26, 25, and 22 yards to Breshad Perriman (5/113/3), Chris Godwin (5/121), and Scotty Miller (3/49/1). On pace for a mind-boggling 5,226 yards, 34 touchdowns, and 27 picks, Winston clearly remains a stud fantasy quarterback despite his consistently poor decision making. He'll undoubtedly be a top-five option against the Texans in Week 16.

I feel like I keep saying this over and over. Great fantasy QB and terrible real life one, but when he's facing a terrible defense... yeah, you get games like this.

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34 minutes ago, wgoldsph said:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WinsJa00.htm

Not including today =

55.7 qbr for the year

Played one top ten defense - 20/36 194 1td 3ints

41 sacks

And of course 23 ints

 

He's a great fantasy qb and an awful real life qb.

San Fran may be the only top 10 d now but early in the season Saints, Carolina, Rams and Tennessee were decent.

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29 minutes ago, The Frankman said:

I feel like I keep saying this over and over. Great fantasy QB and terrible real life one, but when he's facing a terrible defense... yeah, you get games like this.

BS. He’s not a terrible real life QB. You want terrible I’ll rattle off a bunch not named Winston. He played fantastic today. Throws a beautiful ball. He makes mistakes over the middle but Arians says QBs throw picks in his offense the first year. Threw for 300 yards 10 times so far and over 400 a few more. Evans and Godwin out still threw to the guys who were in there. 
And he’s a fantastic fantasy QB

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Just now, Judge Smails said:

BS. He’s not a terrible real life QB. You want terrible I’ll rattle off a bunch not named Winston. He played fantastic today. Throws a beautiful ball. He makes mistakes over the middle but Arians says QBs throw picks in his offense the first year. Threw for 300 yards 10 times so far and over 400 a few more. Evans and Godwin out still threw to the guys who were in there. 
And he’s a fantastic fantasy QB

He throws too many picks to be a good real life QB and I don't care what Arians' excuse is, he's always thrown a ton of picks all the way back to college.  Dude can wing it, but he's not going to win you any championships with the way he throws interceptions.

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3 minutes ago, Foosball God said:

He throws too many picks to be a good real life QB and I don't care what Arians' excuse is, he's always thrown a ton of picks all the way back to college.  Dude can wing it, but he's not going to win you any championships with the way he throws interceptions.

Doesn’t make him terrible. Strong word. Blake Bortles last year was terrible. Couldn’t throw a spiral 

Edited by Judge Smails

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1 minute ago, Judge Smails said:

Doesn’t make him terrible. Strong word. Blake Bortles last year was terrible. Couldn’t throw a spiral 

Agree you can do much worse, but I wouldn't want to build around him either.

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So who would you bring in if you don’t sign him? Cam? Eli? Joe is gone first pick in the draft. Ain’t gettin him. Hurts? What’s the alternative? I’m sure Josh Rosen is available. Maybe Trubisky. 

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2 minutes ago, Judge Smails said:

So who would you bring in if you don’t sign him? Cam? Eli? Joe is gone first pick in the draft. Ain’t gettin him. Hurts? What’s the alternative? I’m sure Josh Rosen is available. Maybe Trubisky. 

Given the state of quarterbacking, you're going to have to hope to pay him a reasonable starter's salary and go from there. He's proven he's too good when he's good Jameis to not be deserving of a second contract. 

He won't get max, but he'll get Cousins money.  

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29 minutes ago, Judge Smails said:

So who would you bring in if you don’t sign him? Cam? Eli? Joe is gone first pick in the draft. Ain’t gettin him. Hurts? What’s the alternative? I’m sure Josh Rosen is available. Maybe Trubisky. 

Herbert, fromm, Eason. Bridgwater as a bridge qb for a later round pick.

26 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Given the state of quarterbacking, you're going to have to hope to pay him a reasonable starter's salary and go from there. He's proven he's too good when he's good Jameis to not be deserving of a second contract. 

He won't get max, but he'll get Cousins money.  

You forget cousins money was record breaking money when he signed. 

 

49 minutes ago, Punxsutawney Phil said:

San Fran may be the only top 10 d now but early in the season Saints, Carolina, Rams and Tennessee were decent.

All teams he had his worst weeks against.

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12 minutes ago, wgoldsph said:

All teams he had his worst weeks against.

Yeah, if you looked at the schedule before the season it was easy to see the 2nd half was soft, and made softer due to ATL sucking. I think a second year in Arians system will work wonders for this guy like it did Carson Palmer and Peyton Manning.  I don't think Jameis is as smart as Manning so I didn't expect it all to click year one for him.  If they can get better outside blocking he could be a perennial pro-bowler.

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33 minutes ago, wgoldsph said:

Herbert, fromm, Eason. Bridgwater as a bridge qb for a later round pick.

You forget cousins money was record breaking money when he signed. 

 

All teams he had his worst weeks against.

Dude - he DESTROYED the Rams. On the road. 

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17 minutes ago, Judge Smails said:

Dude - he DESTROYED the Rams. On the road. 

And he threw 5int against car and 4int against No at home.

Can't win a championship with him.

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Eh, he's going to get franchised.

I'd prefer to see them go after Cam if he were proven to look back to his old self after surgery, and he can throw a ball more than 20 yards again.

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No Evans, possibly no Godwin....I'm still starting him week 16.   FantasyGold!   Outscored Lamar!

Edited by kodycutter

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1 hour ago, wgoldsph said:

And he threw 5int against car and 4int against No at home.

Can't win a championship with him.

We have seen pretty mediocre QBs win championships and great ones never win one.  It's a team effort.

Edited by Punxsutawney Phil
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1 minute ago, Punxsutawney Phil said:

We have seen pretty mediocre QBs win championships and great ones never win one.  It's a team effort.

Lol well luckily Tampa doesn't need to worry about those kinds of things with their bottom rung pass defense which they've had for probably nearing a decade now...

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2 hours ago, wgoldsph said:

You forget cousins money was record breaking money when he signed. 

With due respect, no, I didn't. I also said Foles would get Cousins-esque money because he was the best available and Cousins has set a new market. Cousins did, it's just that Jameis won't set a new market.  

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46 minutes ago, rockaction said:

 

With due respect, no, I didn't. I also said Foles would get Cousins-esque money because he was the best available and Cousins has set a new market. Cousins did, it's just that Jameis won't set a new market.  

As someone who's not worth respecting I take quite a bit of insult.

Does Dak reset the market this offseason?  There's no one else I can remember off the top of my head who needs a new contact who's going to get paid. 

A question better asked in another thread - is this year the year we finally see a qb tie their salary to the cap, considering it's bound to get a big raise with the new cba coming up?

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1 hour ago, Punxsutawney Phil said:

We have seen pretty mediocre QBs win championships and great ones never win one.  It's a team effort.

Those mediocre qbs were trent dilfer types.  Guys who game managed.  Closest gunslinger I can think of who won a superbowl was Farve and Jamis will never be that good.

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Arians offense does not call for a Trent Dilfer game manager.  Plenty of QBs who threw lots of picks won SuperBowls in their careers. Peyton, Big Ben, etc. Regardless, he’s a starter in the NFL and will get paid based on how he’s finishing this year.  Like it or not. 

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56 minutes ago, Judge Smails said:

Arians offense does not call for a Trent Dilfer game manager.  Plenty of QBs who threw lots of picks won SuperBowls in their careers. Peyton, Big Ben, etc. Regardless, he’s a starter in the NFL and will get paid based on how he’s finishing this year.  Like it or not. 

You know, I went through the numbers... Peyton threw a lot more picks then I thought. His first four years - at least stats wise - look a lot like Jamis.  Problem with that comp is the difference in era.

You're right though, someone is going to sign Jamis as their starter.  It'll probably be Tampa.  And it's pretty clear I don't like it.

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5 hours ago, Judge Smails said:

So who would you bring in if you don’t sign him? Cam? Eli? Joe is gone first pick in the draft. Ain’t gettin him. Hurts? What’s the alternative? I’m sure Josh Rosen is available. Maybe Trubisky. 

Exactly. People live in a dream world to expect a better option just to pop up. 

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2 hours ago, ShamrockPride said:

Eh, he's going to get franchised.

I'd prefer to see them go after Cam if he were proven to look back to his old self after surgery, and he can throw a ball more than 20 yards again.

Good lord. Absolutely not. If his wheels are gone it’s over for him. 

Edited by Capella

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3 minutes ago, Capella said:

Exactly. People live in a dream world to expect a better option just to pop up. 

There's four non-burrows rookies I like better in the draft, and a Bridgewater 2021 rookie combo also works.

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33 minutes ago, wgoldsph said:

There's four non-burrows rookies I like better in the draft, and a Bridgewater 2021 rookie combo also works.

Ok well it’s not going to happen. You don’t toss qbs putting these numbers aside in the hope it might get marginally better 3 years from now. That’s ridiculous. 

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1 hour ago, Capella said:

Ok well it’s not going to happen. You don’t toss qbs putting these numbers aside in the hope it might get marginally better 3 years from now. That’s ridiculous. 

The Bucs aren't a good draft away from the super bowl. They need those three years.

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Where do these last 2 games put Winston in a fantasy playoff historical sense?   I don’t remember a pair of better QB games to kick off FF playoffs. 

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9 minutes ago, Teef said:

Where do these last 2 games put Winston in a fantasy playoff historical sense?   I don’t remember a pair of better QB games to kick off FF playoffs. 

Nobody's ever thrown for more than 450 yards in back to back games, let alone playoffs. In my league (6 point TD league, -2 for interceptions) he's got me 47 and 45 points the past two weeks.  Huge.

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Anyone remember Billy Volek in 2004?

Week 14: 426 yards, 4 TDs
Week 15: 492 yards, 4 TDs

Of course, if you do remember those two weeks, then you probably also remember that he only threw for 111 yards (with 2 INTs) in Week 16.

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Now my question is do I start him in my Super Bowl?!

Houston vs Tampa Bay

AND I have BOTH Watson and Winston.......hmmmmm......

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9 hours ago, ShamrockPride said:

Eh, he's going to get franchised.

I'd prefer to see them go after Cam if he were proven to look back to his old self after surgery, and he can throw a ball more than 20 yards again.

If you truly think this you just flat out don’t like Winston the person. 
 

 

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33 minutes ago, togo said:

Now my question is do I start him in my Super Bowl?!

Houston vs Tampa Bay

AND I have BOTH Watson and Winston.......hmmmmm......

No Evans. Probably no Godwin. No Scotty Miller. Line is in shambles. 
 

I’d start the Hell out of him.  He’s making Breshad Perriman relevant.  BRESHAD PERRIMAN! 

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6 hours ago, wgoldsph said:

There's four non-burrows rookies I like better in the draft, and a Bridgewater 2021 rookie combo also works.

How do these four rookies stack up against Mike Glennon & Josh Freeman?

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9 minutes ago, Grahamburn said:

If you truly think this you just flat out don’t like Winston the person. 

Wrong, but thanks. He's a great leader. There's plenty to dislike about his past, but that's for other to decide. I'm not even discussing that here. He's too careless with the football. End of story. He's averaging a pick a game for his career. He's averaging 10 fumbles a season for his career. That's 26 INTs/fumbles per season. That's not acceptable at all. And spare me the it'll improve stuff. He's 5 full years in. He is who he is. Mechanics can change, even work ethic can change. Know what can't change? Mentality and a guy's natural instincts. Jameis just doesn't have them when it comes to ball security.

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6 hours ago, wgoldsph said:

The Bucs aren't a good draft away from the super bowl. They need those three years.

The franchise is 7-7 and somewhat good for the first time in years. They haven’t made the playoffs since 2007. You don’t kick the can down the road another 3 years. Try selling that to an owner trying to sell tickets. What you’re saying just isn’t realistic in the real world. 

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10 hours ago, wgoldsph said:

As someone who's not worth respecting I take quite a bit of insult.

Does Dak reset the market this offseason?  There's no one else I can remember off the top of my head who needs a new contact who's going to get paid. 

A question better asked in another thread - is this year the year we finally see a qb tie their salary to the cap, considering it's bound to get a big raise with the new cba coming up?

Mariota, Dak, and Winston, Dalton, Bridgewater, Tannehill, and somebody of note I'm forgetting all go into the pool, but those none of those guys should reset the market and it seems likely that the pitch will be exactly what you said about trying -- note that they'll try -- to tie the salary to the salary cap. I think Cousins is now the market and you negotiate around that guarantee. 

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1 hour ago, ShamrockPride said:

Wrong, but thanks. He's a great leader. There's plenty to dislike about his past, but that's for other to decide. I'm not even discussing that here. He's too careless with the football. End of story. He's averaging a pick a game for his career. He's averaging 10 fumbles a season for his career. That's 26 INTs/fumbles per season. That's not acceptable at all. And spare me the it'll improve stuff. He's 5 full years in. He is who he is. Mechanics can change, even work ethic can change. Know what can't change? Mentality and a guy's natural instincts. Jameis just doesn't have them when it comes to ball security.

IMO, if Arians can't fix him, I don't know who can. 

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3 minutes ago, zamboni said:

IMO, if Arians can't fix him, I don't know who can. 

I think we'll find out whether Arians thinks he can. So far, publicly and with no reason to do so, Arians has really backed the guy in some seemingly indefensible situations. I said upthread this may be a case of Arians's ego thinking he can fix anything (I don't know of any source indicating this is the case) or Arians really believes in the guy. Either way, Tampa has been an exciting team to watch under Koetter and then Arians/Leftwich the past two years. 

Nice talent.

One of the few teams that an All-22 would be cool for.  

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2 hours ago, ShamrockPride said:

Wrong, but thanks. He's a great leader. There's plenty to dislike about his past, but that's for other to decide. I'm not even discussing that here. He's too careless with the football. End of story. He's averaging a pick a game for his career. He's averaging 10 fumbles a season for his career. That's 26 INTs/fumbles per season. That's not acceptable at all. And spare me the it'll improve stuff. He's 5 full years in. He is who he is. Mechanics can change, even work ethic can change. Know what can't change? Mentality and a guy's natural instincts. Jameis just doesn't have them when it comes to ball security.

I don't know why Cam would be your guy then?  He hasn't been that much better in the turnover department (108 INTs and 55 fumbles in 124 games).  He also isn't even in the same universe with Winston as a passer.  Especially now, and if he can't run we've seen how worthless he is.

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I’ve lived and died with every snap from him this year. I do think he’s showing improvement. He threw balls away yesterday or took sacks of needed. He’s worse with picks with Evans in there because he feels compelled to get him the ball, even in jump ball situations. Evans didn’t help him in those. 

He’s good at 1:1 coverage reads and man can he make every throw with accuracy. Unlike Josh Allen wildly missing 12 yard down and outs. Winston doesn’t do that. Where he struggles is zone coverage and short throws over the middle.  Completes plenty of them, but will miss linebackers baiting him from the weak side. Needs to clean that up. Arians thinks he’ll clean that up in year 2 of his offense. 

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I don't think he is a guy to build around, but agree there isn't a lot of options out there.  They could certainly do worse, but if I were them I'd be buying on a QB in pretty much every draft in the mid rounds.  Comparing Winston to Payton in their first few years is a bit disingenuous imo.  Maybe you compare him to a guy like Stafford, but I personally don't think the guy is going to stop throwing boatloads of interceptions, it's just who he is.  Bridge deal is the way to go for them, maybe a 5 year contract with some easy ways to get out after year 2.  If Winston isn't willing to take that kind of deal then I think it would be foolish for Tampa to overpay.  There may not be great options out there, but there are other ones.

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8 hours ago, togo said:

Now my question is do I start him in my Super Bowl?!

Houston vs Tampa Bay

AND I have BOTH Watson and Winston.......hmmmmm......

Easy call.  Winston doesn’t have anyone left to throw to.   Watson does - and he can run if needed.  Tampa’s pass defense is abysmal.

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10 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

Easy call.  Winston doesn’t have anyone left to throw to.   Watson does - and he can run if needed.  Tampa’s pass defense is abysmal.

 perriman looks just fine...jamies is gonna chuck it no matter what

Edited by bicycle_seat_sniffer

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If I make it out of this week I just need 1 more good week from him.  Without Evans he put up great numbers but I am worried that Godwin will be out because the injury looked bad.

Alex Keaton is right that Watson over him is an easy call but he might be my best option if i make the finals because the only other QB that I could probably start is Trubisky against the Chiefs.  

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1 minute ago, yoman said:

If I make it out of this week I just need 1 more good week from him.  Without Evans he put up great numbers but I am worried that Godwin will be out because the injury looked bad.

Alex Keaton is right that Watson over him is an easy call but he might be my best option if i make the finals because the only other QB that I could probably start is Trubisky against the Chiefs.  

I look at this as I'm starting Winston/Arians.  The volume will be there.   Expect a fire fight between TB and Houston. 

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41 minutes ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

 perriman looks just fine...jamies is gonna chuck it no matter what

I own Winston and would probably take Watson. Can’t run on the Bucs so Watson should burn them with Hopkins and Fuller. Jameis will chuck it but it will be harder without premium weapons. Still possible with Perriman, Watson, Howard and Brate but will have to be efficient.  Both teams should throw a ton 

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9 hours ago, Joe Summer said:

Anyone remember Billy Volek in 2004?

Week 14: 426 yards, 4 TDs
Week 15: 492 yards, 4 TDs

Of course, if you do remember those two weeks, then you probably also remember that he only threw for 111 yards (with 2 INTs) in Week 16.

I do, he won me my fantasy playoffs

 

8 hours ago, Punxsutawney Phil said:

How do these four rookies stack up against Mike Glennon & Josh Freeman?

Much higher upside

 

6 hours ago, Capella said:

The franchise is 7-7 and somewhat good for the first time in years. They haven’t made the playoffs since 2007. You don’t kick the can down the road another 3 years. Try selling that to an owner trying to sell tickets. What you’re saying just isn’t realistic in the real world. 

What sells more tickets than "first round rookie qb!" to a team that still isn't making the playoffs

 

Also can I note how Wilson admits to groping an Uber driver and that hasnt come up once?  Because it really should.

 

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11 minutes ago, wgoldsph said:

I do, he won me my fantasy playoffs

 

Much higher upside

 

What sells more tickets than "first round rookie qb!" to a team that still isn't making the playoffs

 

Also can I note how Wilson admits to groping an Uber driver and that hasnt come up once?  Because it really should.

 

Sounds like if he threw less picks you would overlook the Uber incident.  First you’ve brought it up. Out of on the field or market arguments?

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