What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

QB Jameis Winston, NO (7 Viewers)

jurb26 said:
So again, no context provided.

Maybe we start at the first int vs. Florida. What about this int do you not like?
Click to expand...
Really isn't any point to taking the time and effort. I'd rather others that want to develop their own opinion review it on their own and see what they think after watching it. It's obvious you and I came away from his film with two different opinions, not something uncommon in football. I won't change your opinion, you won't change mine.

I didn't like that he through at his first read in coverage with a clean pocket and that read not being Greene. His receivers showed throughout the year they didn't win in tight coverage, so why make that throw? It wasn't a terrible decision nor was it a terrible throw, but it certainly wasn't good. He made up his mind what he was doing pre-snap, can't do that.

 
Right, his WR let him own a lot this past year. That play is a glaring example. There is a golden rule all WR have on slant patterns. NEVER ALLOW THE CB TO CROSS YOU'RE FACE. This pick is almost entirely on the WR. Why make the throw? Well, because that's the play design and his WR had position at the release. The throw was far from terrible. It was accurate. The WR allowed the CB to cross his face and take position from him.

This play was thrown out as a test to see if we could have some objectivity but I guess not. There are plenty of others that warrant criticism.

 
jurb26 said:
Right, his WR let him own a lot this past year. That play is a glaring example. There is a golden rule all WR have on slant patterns. NEVER ALLOW THE CB TO CROSS YOU'RE FACE. This pick is almost entirely on the WR. Why make the throw? Well, because that's the play design and his WR had position at the release. The throw was far from terrible. It was accurate. The WR allowed the CB to cross his face and take position from him.

This play was thrown out as a test to see if we could have some objectivity but I guess not. There are plenty of others that warrant criticism.
Click to expand...
How was my analysis not objective? Throwing to anyone but Greene in tight coverage is a mistake, so don't do it, and if you are going to do it throw it to a spot it where only your guy can make the play. He wasn't under pressure, so move to read #2.

ETA: don't bother, if you're going to go #FSUtwitter when it comes to Winston I'm not wasting my time on you.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
jurb26 said:
Right, his WR let him own a lot this past year. That play is a glaring example. There is a golden rule all WR have on slant patterns. NEVER ALLOW THE CB TO CROSS YOU'RE FACE. This pick is almost entirely on the WR. Why make the throw? Well, because that's the play design and his WR had position at the release. The throw was far from terrible. It was accurate. The WR allowed the CB to cross his face and take position from him.

This play was thrown out as a test to see if we could have some objectivity but I guess not. There are plenty of others that warrant criticism.
Click to expand...
The throw was not accurate; it was more inaccurate than Wilson's throw in the Super Bowl (and certainly, those are similar plays). And Winston telegraphed it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWwy_CrRc4I

Freeze-frame at :26; he has just received the ball and he is looking directly at the receiver. Freeze frame at 0:27 when he releases the ball; his eyes have not moved. He got read by the DB. And at 0:28, the ball is three feet in front of the receiver, who maybe was able to get a finger on it.

A better receiver might have planted his foot harder, made the cut more aggressively. But the DB being at the spot is 100% on Winston.

And I notice you didn't say anything about the other two INTs he threw that quarter.

 
jurb26 said:
CalBear said:
jurb26 said:
MAC_32 said:
Old Smiley said:
CalBear said:
Here's another Winston gem, where he's not under pressure, makes a horrible decision to throw to a double-covered receiver, and underthrows him by several yards.

Or this lovely game, where he starts by staring down his receiver and throwing an inaccurate ball for an interception, follows it up by overthrowing into triple coverage for another interception, and finishes by lofting a ball into a sea of opponents. All without pressure.
Click to expand...
You do see those wide feet people talk about. He kind of squats when he sets, too.
Click to expand...
Again, believe what you want about the neck up, but to say he didn't put out a lot of bad tape in 2014 would be lying to yourself.
Click to expand...
Everyone puts out bad tape if you watch enough.
Click to expand...
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the guy who threw 18 interceptions put out a lot more bad tape than the guy who threw 4.

Like this one; stares down the receiver, throws into triple coverage, off-target (with no pressure).

Or here's a great decision under pressure on first down: a blind jump pass into the middle of the field.

Or under no pressure with a 3-man rush, failing to see the linebacker, and throwing way behind the receiver to boot.
Click to expand...
You're not going out on a limb or fooling anyone. You've shown no objectivity on Winston or Mariota and I wouldn't expect that to change now.
Click to expand...
Like you're an example of an impartial observer? You've got zero ground to stand on when it comes to that subject around here.

 
MAC_32 said:
jurb26 said:
Right, his WR let him own a lot this past year. That play is a glaring example. There is a golden rule all WR have on slant patterns. NEVER ALLOW THE CB TO CROSS YOU'RE FACE. This pick is almost entirely on the WR. Why make the throw? Well, because that's the play design and his WR had position at the release. The throw was far from terrible. It was accurate. The WR allowed the CB to cross his face and take position from him.

This play was thrown out as a test to see if we could have some objectivity but I guess not. There are plenty of others that warrant criticism.
Click to expand...
How was my analysis not objective? Throwing to anyone but Greene in tight coverage is a mistake, so don't do it, and if you are going to do it throw it to a spot it where only your guy can make the play. He wasn't under pressure, so move to read #2.ETA: don't bother, if you're going to go #FSUtwitter when it comes to Winston I'm not wasting my time on you.
Click to expand...
The read and throw were fine. His WR had position and his WR gave that position up. Saying things like he should only throw into tight coverage if it's Greene is ridiculous. You run the play and give your guy a chance to make the play. Football is a game where you do your job and trust that your teammates wil do theirs. You act as though he should take on a Maverick approach just because it's not Greene. That's not an approach that works out well very often, it's also a reason for some of his other picks.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
MAC_32 said:
Capella said:
Cherry picking bad plays while completely leaving out and ignoring the dozens and dozens of great plays and then making declarations based strictly on the bad ones is always my favorite shtick.
Click to expand...
Ignoring the bad tape is just as silly. Every QB has bad tape, but there's a line. Jameis crossed it in 2014. Mariota has his share of misses too, but throughout his career he has minimized the damage from those miscues; something Winston failed to do throughout last year.

When you're evaluating two great, but flawed, QB prospects I think what's going on upstairs is the best tie breaker. If you think that's Winston I think you're crazy, so I must think the Bucs brain trust is nuts, and if they pick him over Mariota I will.
Click to expand...
You also said that Johnny Football was going #1 overall, no less than 5. Your track record and evaluation speaks for itself.

 
jurb26 said:
MAC_32 said:
jurb26 said:
Right, his WR let him own a lot this past year. That play is a glaring example. There is a golden rule all WR have on slant patterns. NEVER ALLOW THE CB TO CROSS YOU'RE FACE. This pick is almost entirely on the WR. Why make the throw? Well, because that's the play design and his WR had position at the release. The throw was far from terrible. It was accurate. The WR allowed the CB to cross his face and take position from him.

This play was thrown out as a test to see if we could have some objectivity but I guess not. There are plenty of others that warrant criticism.
Click to expand...
How was my analysis not objective? Throwing to anyone but Greene in tight coverage is a mistake, so don't do it, and if you are going to do it throw it to a spot it where only your guy can make the play. He wasn't under pressure, so move to read #2.ETA: don't bother, if you're going to go #FSUtwitter when it comes to Winston I'm not wasting my time on you.
Click to expand...
The read and throw were fine. His WR had position and his WR gave that position up. Saying things like he should only throw into tight coverage if it's Greene is ridiculous. You run the play and give your guy a chance to make the play. Football is a game where you do your job and trust that your teammates wil do theirs. You act as though he should take on a Maverick approach just because it's not Greene. That's not an approach that works out well very often, it's also a reason for some of his other picks.
Click to expand...
Good QB's understand how their guys win and put them in position to be successful. You sound like you want a robot taking snaps from center.

It's the 1st quarter of a game against a team that cannot move the ball offensively. There's one way, and one way only, Florida State loses this game - by turning the ball over. A good decision maker understands this game situation and moves onto the 2nd read.

If Dante Fowler is breathing down his neck in the 4th quarter on 3rd down with Florida State down 6? Completely different evaluation of this play, but at this point in the game you live to fight another down. The WR made a bad play, but Jameis also made a bad decision. Has he made worse? Yes, a lot worse. A lot worse execution too. Throughout this game actually. Doesn't excuse the poor decision here though.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
troll said:
MAC_32 said:
Capella said:
Cherry picking bad plays while completely leaving out and ignoring the dozens and dozens of great plays and then making declarations based strictly on the bad ones is always my favorite shtick.
Click to expand...
Ignoring the bad tape is just as silly. Every QB has bad tape, but there's a line. Jameis crossed it in 2014. Mariota has his share of misses too, but throughout his career he has minimized the damage from those miscues; something Winston failed to do throughout last year.When you're evaluating two great, but flawed, QB prospects I think what's going on upstairs is the best tie breaker. If you think that's Winston I think you're crazy, so I must think the Bucs brain trust is nuts, and if they pick him over Mariota I will.
Click to expand...
You also said that Johnny Football was going #1 overall, no less than 5. Your track record and evaluation speaks for itself.
Click to expand...
 
Bracie Smathers said:
Quez said:
Capella said:
http://chopchat.com/2015/02/22/kinsmans-attorney-wanted-insurance-policy-jameis-winston/
Click to expand...
I bet they file the lawsuit on Winston the day after he gets drafted.
Click to expand...
The biggest stat going against him is 1 rape allegation that will never go away and it can and I think it will get a lot worse.http://chopchat.com/2015/02/22/erica-kinsman-jameis-winston-drugged/?utm_source=FanSided&utm_medium=Network&utm_campaign=RecentPosts

Erica Kinsman: Jameis Winston Drugged Me

Erica Kinsman, the young woman who accused Jameis Winston of raping her back in December of 2012, is at it once again.

Kinsman will appear in a documentary due out this March called, The Hunting Ground. In it, she appears next to her father and describes the events of that fateful night.

As told to the Washington Post:

She says [Winston] pretended to be her boyfriend to drive a different guy away who she says was following her around the bar. Winstons chivalry ended there, however, according to Kinsman, who recalls taking a shot with Winston that she was convinced was tainted...
Click to expand...
He got away with it at Florida State, will he get away with it on the national stage in the NFL?Apparently one famous celebrity never had to answer questions about it and got away with it for decades.

Click to expand...
Her story about being drugged is rediculous considering nothing showed up on the toxicology report.

 
Old Smiley said:
McShay's giving him the highest grade he's given since Luck. Other that Luck, highest in ten years.
Click to expand...
Rotoworld:

ESPN's Todd McShay grades Florida State QB Jameis Winston as the second-best QB prospect since 2000, behind only Andrew Luck.

Excluding off-field issues, it's hard to argue. Winston is a special prospect, from his prototypical 6-foot-4, 231-pound size to his strong arm to his superb technique to his courage in the pocket to his leadership qualities. He only must answer off-field questions, of which there are many. NFL teams have been attempting to ascertain whether Winston is spectacularly immature -- and will thus grow out of his problematic behavior -- or an inherently bad person destined to take down a franchise. Bucs GM Jason Licht, the owner of the No. 1 pick, knows what's at stake: "This is the most important pick, potentially, in the history of the franchise."

Source: ESPN Stats & Info on Twitter
Feb 23 - 3:57 PM
Click to expand...
MMQB's Andy Benoit "heard from multiple coaches" at the combine that Florida State QB Jameis Winston's football IQ "is on a Peyton Manning level."

Benoit added that these observations weren't "talking just to [the media], they were talking to [a] table of other coaches." So much disparate information is coming in regarding Winston's character that you can understand why we exclude off-field considerations from our evaluations. For every glowing report like this one -- or coach Bruce Arians calling Winston "a good kid" or of Winston doing "incredibly well" in combine interviews -- there's another like the anonymous NFL scout telling the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel that Winston is "more likely to be a bust than a good player," wondering how a team could "even let that guy in the building?" Pop psychology aside, Winston is the frontrunner to go No. 1.


Source: Andy Benoit on Twitter
Feb 23 - 3:27 PM
Click to expand...
 
I am quite surprised Winston is getting so much laudation. At this point I guess we know the Bucs will likely draft him but it will be interesting to see what type of impact he makes in FF drafts and how far he can push himself up in the rookie drafts.

 
I was surprised too. But then I looked back at high QB picks over the period and there's probably more mediocrity there than greatness. So, whatever. It's still a crap shoot.

Still say McShay having him that high is a bit much.

 
jurb26 said:
MAC_32 said:
jurb26 said:
Right, his WR let him own a lot this past year. That play is a glaring example. There is a golden rule all WR have on slant patterns. NEVER ALLOW THE CB TO CROSS YOU'RE FACE. This pick is almost entirely on the WR. Why make the throw? Well, because that's the play design and his WR had position at the release. The throw was far from terrible. It was accurate. The WR allowed the CB to cross his face and take position from him.

This play was thrown out as a test to see if we could have some objectivity but I guess not. There are plenty of others that warrant criticism.
Click to expand...
How was my analysis not objective? Throwing to anyone but Greene in tight coverage is a mistake, so don't do it, and if you are going to do it throw it to a spot it where only your guy can make the play. He wasn't under pressure, so move to read #2.ETA: don't bother, if you're going to go #FSUtwitter when it comes to Winston I'm not wasting my time on you.
Click to expand...
The read and throw were fine. His WR had position and his WR gave that position up. Saying things like he should only throw into tight coverage if it's Greene is ridiculous. You run the play and give your guy a chance to make the play. Football is a game where you do your job and trust that your teammates wil do theirs. You act as though he should take on a Maverick approach just because it's not Greene. That's not an approach that works out well very often, it's also a reason for some of his other picks.
Click to expand...
This is absolutely hilarious. You're basically parroting what I said about the Mariota throw on the dropped interception, but about Winston. And after I pointed that out, you went on to say that I had no credibility and time to retire my alias?

People really shouldn't argue with this idiot. He can't evaluate talent for squat.

I even agree with him if makes the argument "Winston is the best QB prospect this year" - but my guess is if Luck and Winston came out in the same year he'd be nitpicking every little detail of Luck and jumping up and down when you question how Winston threw 18 picks in a single season...

 
Shutout said:
I am quite surprised Winston is getting so much laudation. At this point I guess we know the Bucs will likely draft him but it will be interesting to see what type of impact he makes in FF drafts and how far he can push himself up in the rookie drafts.
Click to expand...
I can't imagine he gets inside the top 5, but anywhere starting at 6? Sure, just depends the sort of situation the non Gurley/Gordon backs go to.

 
Old Smiley said:
I was surprised too. But then I looked back at high QB picks over the period and there's probably more mediocrity there than greatness. So, whatever. It's still a crap shoot.

Still say McShay having him that high is a bit much.
Click to expand...
Yea, at first I was a little skeptical on McShay's analysis to say he's the #1 prospect since Andrew Luck... well, that's really not saying much. You gonna take EJ Manuel, Geno Smith, Blake Bortles, Manziel or Bridgewater over Winston?

I don't think it is much of a stretch to say Winston is the best prospect since Luck. But I think Luck was such a surefire prospect that it's a large gap between Luck and the next best prospect. There's probably shouldn't even be a second place...

 
-CE- said:
Old Smiley said:
I was surprised too. But then I looked back at high QB picks over the period and there's probably more mediocrity there than greatness. So, whatever. It's still a crap shoot.

Still say McShay having him that high is a bit much.
Click to expand...
Yea, at first I was a little skeptical on McShay's analysis to say he's the #1 prospect since Andrew Luck... well, that's really not saying much. You gonna take EJ Manuel, Geno Smith, Blake Bortles, Manziel or Bridgewater over Winston?

I don't think it is much of a stretch to say Winston is the best prospect since Luck. But I think Luck was such a surefire prospect that it's a large gap between Luck and the next best prospect. There's probably shouldn't even be a second place...
Click to expand...
Matt Miller disagrees.

 
If you take a guy in the top 5 picks, he better be elite-elite. I don't see any elite-elite QBs this year.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
cstu said:
-CE- said:
Old Smiley said:
I was surprised too. But then I looked back at high QB picks over the period and there's probably more mediocrity there than greatness. So, whatever. It's still a crap shoot.

Still say McShay having him that high is a bit much.
Click to expand...
Yea, at first I was a little skeptical on McShay's analysis to say he's the #1 prospect since Andrew Luck... well, that's really not saying much. You gonna take EJ Manuel, Geno Smith, Blake Bortles, Manziel or Bridgewater over Winston?

I don't think it is much of a stretch to say Winston is the best prospect since Luck. But I think Luck was such a surefire prospect that it's a large gap between Luck and the next best prospect. There's probably shouldn't even be a second place...
Click to expand...
Matt Miller disagrees.
Click to expand...
Interesting listening. Thank you for sharing. This is a guy who already went with Bridgewater over the other two guys last year (Bortles & Manziel) and is essentially doubling down. I like a guy who does that.

 
Winston is a hell of a passer. Arm angle, changing speeds, ball placement are truly elite. Biggest questions are the interceptions this year and his maturity. As a passer though he's near Luck.

He's a better QB than Mariota right now. Doesn't mean he will remain a better QB than MM throughout his career.

 
mr roboto said:
Winston is a hell of a passer. Arm angle, changing speeds, ball placement are truly elite. Biggest questions are the interceptions this year and his maturity. As a passer though he's near Luck.

He's a better QB than Mariota right now. Doesn't mean he will remain a better QB than MM throughout his career.
Click to expand...
I watched the combine a couple of times to see their throws. They both nailed all of them but I tend to agree with what you're saying above.

 
-CE- said:
mr roboto said:
Winston is a hell of a passer. Arm angle, changing speeds, ball placement are truly elite. Biggest questions are the interceptions this year and his maturity. As a passer though he's near Luck.

He's a better QB than Mariota right now. Doesn't mean he will remain a better QB than MM throughout his career.
Click to expand...
I watched the combine a couple of times to see their throws. They both nailed all of them but I tend to agree with what you're saying above.
Click to expand...
Not that it matters, but Mariota missed several, and a few of his completions were nice plays by the WR.

 
Grahamburn said:
Touchdown There said:
If you take a guy in the top 5 picks, he better be elite-elite. I don't see any elite-elite QBs this year.
Click to expand...
What does this even mean?
Click to expand...
Do you believe that Bortles will change the fortune of the Jaguars? Ask yourself the same question for Tannehill, Manziel, EJ Manuel, and Bridgewater. They are all going to go the Weeden, Locker, Gabbert, Ponder route. Wasted draft picks that set a franchise back many, many years. If you remove the obvious 1.1 picks from the last 5 years, all other 1st rounders are roster killers.

The really good teams with a settled QB situation love it. It just bumps better players into their draft slot and cripples the struggling franchises with a high dollar 5-year contract QB. It's not rocket science. There are no elite QBs in this draft, don't reach for one.

 
Touchdown There said:
Grahamburn said:
Touchdown There said:
If you take a guy in the top 5 picks, he better be elite-elite. I don't see any elite-elite QBs this year.
Click to expand...
What does this even mean?
Click to expand...
Do you believe that Bortles will change the fortune of the Jaguars? Ask yourself the same question for Tannehill, Manziel, EJ Manuel, and Bridgewater. They are all going to go the Weeden, Locker, Gabbert, Ponder route. Wasted draft picks that set a franchise back many, many years. If you remove the obvious 1.1 picks from the last 5 years, all other 1st rounders are roster killers.

The really good teams with a settled QB situation love it. It just bumps better players into their draft slot and cripples the struggling franchises with a high dollar 5-year contract QB. It's not rocket science. There are no elite QBs in this draft, don't reach for one.
Click to expand...
Tannehill and Bridgewater are working out just fine. :confused:

 
Touchdown There said:
Grahamburn said:
Touchdown There said:
If you take a guy in the top 5 picks, he better be elite-elite. I don't see any elite-elite QBs this year.
Click to expand...
What does this even mean?
Click to expand...
Do you believe that Bortles will change the fortune of the Jaguars? Ask yourself the same question for Tannehill, Manziel, EJ Manuel, and Bridgewater. They are all going to go the Weeden, Locker, Gabbert, Ponder route. Wasted draft picks that set a franchise back many, many years. If you remove the obvious 1.1 picks from the last 5 years, all other 1st rounders are roster killers.

The really good teams with a settled QB situation love it. It just bumps better players into their draft slot and cripples the struggling franchises with a high dollar 5-year contract QB. It's not rocket science. There are no elite QBs in this draft, don't reach for one.
Click to expand...
How do those teams get settled QB situations? Most of them drafted a guy at some point who wasn't an "elite elite" prospect. Those players don't come around often. Once or twice every 10 years or so it seems. There are only a handful of teams with a settled QB situation who didn't draft that player.

What would you suggest the other teams do at the position in a league obviously catering to the QB and offense overall?

The contracts are slotted now depending on draft position, so any prospect getting drafted in the top 5 carries the same contract regardless of position on the field. Jameis Winston ends up with roughly the same contract as anyone else picked #1 overall.

 
Grahamburn said:
-CE- said:
mr roboto said:
Winston is a hell of a passer. Arm angle, changing speeds, ball placement are truly elite. Biggest questions are the interceptions this year and his maturity. As a passer though he's near Luck.

He's a better QB than Mariota right now. Doesn't mean he will remain a better QB than MM throughout his career.
Click to expand...
I watched the combine a couple of times to see their throws. They both nailed all of them but I tend to agree with what you're saying above.
Click to expand...
Not that it matters, but Mariota missed several, and a few of his completions were nice plays by the WR.
Click to expand...
Did we watch the same combine? I remember him missing one on his first out throw to the right then nailing the others. I shrugged it off as nerves based on how the others looked - and what I really noticed was his ability to get the ball on a rope for that throw. I can't remember who went before him but there was a noticeable difference in how much loft that QB needed for the same throw.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I went into the Rose Bowl, the National Championship, and the combine wanting to fall in love with Mariota because Winston scares the crap out of me as a Bucs' fan. I felt disappointed every time. He threw behind a couple guys, lost one low and away, and missed at least two of his deep balls at the combine.

I noticed the happy feet and lack of pocket awareness in the two biggest games of his career. FSU wasn't prepared for Oregon's offense as a whole. He ended up having good numbers, but Mariota still didn't look great. Urban Myer had Ohio State ready for the Ducks. It was almost like a preview of what an NFL defensive scheme could do to Marcus.

I still think MM could be great because he has what it takes athletically and upstairs, but Winston is clearly the better player right now for an NFL franchise.

 
Touchdown There said:
Grahamburn said:
Touchdown There said:
If you take a guy in the top 5 picks, he better be elite-elite. I don't see any elite-elite QBs this year.
Click to expand...
What does this even mean?
Click to expand...
Do you believe that Bortles will change the fortune of the Jaguars? Ask yourself the same question for Tannehill, Manziel, EJ Manuel, and Bridgewater. They are all going to go the Weeden, Locker, Gabbert, Ponder route. Wasted draft picks that set a franchise back many, many years. If you remove the obvious 1.1 picks from the last 5 years, all other 1st rounders are roster killers.

The really good teams with a settled QB situation love it. It just bumps better players into their draft slot and cripples the struggling franchises with a high dollar 5-year contract QB. It's not rocket science. There are no elite QBs in this draft, don't reach for one.
Click to expand...
Seems a little premature on Tannehill, Bortles and Bridgewater doesn't it?
 
Grahamburn said:
I went into the Rose Bowl, the National Championship, and the combine wanting to fall in love with Mariota because Winston scares the crap out of me as a Bucs' fan. I felt disappointed every time. He threw behind a couple guys, lost one low and away, and missed at least two of his deep balls at the combine.

I noticed the happy feet and lack of pocket awareness in the two biggest games of his career. FSU wasn't prepared for Oregon's offense as a whole. He ended up having good numbers, but Mariota still didn't look great. Urban Myer had Ohio State ready for the Ducks. It was almost like a preview of what an NFL defensive scheme could do to Marcus.

I still think MM could be great because he has what it takes athletically and upstairs, but Winston is clearly the better player right now for an NFL franchise.
Click to expand...
That's all fine and dandy.

Earlier you said, "Not that it matters, but Mariota missed several, and a few of his completions were nice plays by the WR."

Here you can watch the majority of Mariota's throws. http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine-featured-participants/0ap3000000472877/2015-NFL-Scouting-Combine-Marcus-Mariota-full-workout

It's not all of them, because there was one missed pass on out throws to the right I remember Mariota missing, but please explain to me where he "missed several"? That's basically all of his throws at the combine with the exception of the out routes to the right, which include two great throws and the other one I mention which he missed. Which other "several" misses are you referring to?

Let's be honest, you didn't watch him at the combine and you're a huge Winston fan/unapologetic supporter?

Edit: It's cute how you change the topic from combine performance to the Rose Bowl and National Championship without addressing my questions.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
mr roboto said:
Touchdown There said:
Grahamburn said:
Touchdown There said:
If you take a guy in the top 5 picks, he better be elite-elite. I don't see any elite-elite QBs this year.
Click to expand...
What does this even mean?
Click to expand...
Do you believe that Bortles will change the fortune of the Jaguars? Ask yourself the same question for Tannehill, Manziel, EJ Manuel, and Bridgewater. They are all going to go the Weeden, Locker, Gabbert, Ponder route. Wasted draft picks that set a franchise back many, many years. If you remove the obvious 1.1 picks from the last 5 years, all other 1st rounders are roster killers.

The really good teams with a settled QB situation love it. It just bumps better players into their draft slot and cripples the struggling franchises with a high dollar 5-year contract QB. It's not rocket science. There are no elite QBs in this draft, don't reach for one.
Click to expand...
Seems a little premature on Tannehill, Bortles and Bridgewater doesn't it?
Click to expand...
Nope
 
What would you suggest the other teams do at the position in a league obviously catering to the QB and offense overall?

-- Draft an elite talent at another position or trade back.

 
The trade down/take someone else thing is the siren song of the message board guy who has nothing to lose.

If you're an nfl GM with some real skin in the game and you are picking at 1 and you need a QB...you're taking a QB if someone good is there. And most scouts find Winston to be elite. You aren't winning in the nfl anymore without a really good QB.

 
The message board guy can see clearly because he has nothing to gain or lose. The guy w skin in the game is pressured into making a bad decision. He is concerned about a 2-4 year timeline, because that is his payment window.

Low turnover at GM for teams that have the qb position situated.

 
Touchdown There said:
mr roboto said:
Touchdown There said:
Grahamburn said:
Touchdown There said:
If you take a guy in the top 5 picks, he better be elite-elite. I don't see any elite-elite QBs this year.
Click to expand...
What does this even mean?
Click to expand...
Do you believe that Bortles will change the fortune of the Jaguars? Ask yourself the same question for Tannehill, Manziel, EJ Manuel, and Bridgewater. They are all going to go the Weeden, Locker, Gabbert, Ponder route. Wasted draft picks that set a franchise back many, many years. If you remove the obvious 1.1 picks from the last 5 years, all other 1st rounders are roster killers.

The really good teams with a settled QB situation love it. It just bumps better players into their draft slot and cripples the struggling franchises with a high dollar 5-year contract QB. It's not rocket science. There are no elite QBs in this draft, don't reach for one.
Click to expand...
Seems a little premature on Tannehill, Bortles and Bridgewater doesn't it?
Click to expand...
Nope
Click to expand...
4th highest QB rating in history of any rookie QB with more than 300 pass attempts. But feel free to claim he's a bust.

Code: 
Rk 		        Year 	Age 	Draft 	Tm 	Lg 	G 	GS 	Cmp 	Att 	Cmp% 	Yds 	TD 	Int 	Rate ▾ 	Sk 	Y/A 	Yds 	AY/A 	ANY/A 	Y/G 	W 	L 	T 	Att 	Yds 	Y/A 	TD 	Y/G1 	Robert Griffin 	2012 	22 	1-2 	WAS 	NFL 	15 	15 	258 	393 	65.65 	3200 	20 	5 	102.4 	30 	8.14 	217 	8.59 	7.47 	213.3 	9 	6 	0 	120 	815 	6.79 	7 	54.32 	Russell Wilson 	2012 	24 	3-75 	SEA 	NFL 	16 	16 	252 	393 	64.12 	3118 	26 	10 	100.0 	33 	7.93 	203 	8.11 	7.01 	194.9 	11 	5 	0 	94 	489 	5.20 	4 	30.63 	Matt Ryan 	2008 	23 	1-3 	ATL 	NFL 	16 	16 	265 	434 	61.06 	3440 	16 	11 	87.7 	17 	7.93 	104 	7.52 	7.01 	215.0 	11 	5 	0 	55 	104 	1.89 	1 	6.54 	Bridgewater 	2014 	22 	1-32 	MIN 	NFL 	13 	12 	259 	402 	64.43 	2919 	14 	12 	85.2 	39 	7.26 	249 	6.61 	5.46 	224.5 	6 	6 	0 	47 	209 	4.45 	1 	16.15 	Cam Newton 	2011 	22 	1-1 	CAR 	NFL 	16 	16 	310 	517 	59.96 	4051 	21 	17 	84.5 	35 	7.84 	260 	7.17 	6.24 	253.2 	6 	10 	0 	126 	706 	5.60 	14 	44.1
 
If anyone has already written off a guy like Bridgewater after that rookie season with a new coach and losing a HOF RB that tells me all I need to know about his analysis.

 
mr roboto said:
If anyone has already written off a guy like Bridgewater after that rookie season with a new coach and losing a HOF RB that tells me all I need to know about his analysis.
Click to expand...
Yea, I'm not sure anyone who watched the guy would be writing him off right now...

 
jurb26 said:
bucsbaby said:
Winston may be more pro-ready today, but a HOF QB's career these days can be nearly 20 years long. Winston may be more ready to get the Bucs above .500 this year, but I can't help but feel that Mariota has more of the intangibles to be greater over the long haul. Time will tell, of course.
Click to expand...
What intangibles are you looking for? Winston by and large is said to have outstanding intangibles. It's brought up nearly everytime you hear someone talk about him. His teammates love playing for him, he works harder than anyone in the team, his football IQ is as high as many have ever seen, he's won in difficult situations, his game seems to get better when the stakes are highest and he has natural leadership qualities.
Click to expand...
Maturity, focus. I understand gifted athlete and all that, but I want my face of the franchise QB to be 100% dedicated to football and being the best damn QB he can be bar none. I want him to have Peyton's drive to be the GOAT. I don't want to see multiple off-field issues. If you can't compose yourself off-field it's still a reflection of what can crop up on field or in the dressing room. I'm not saying he doesn't have any intangibles, but, like everyone else, it's the multiple off-field incidents that make me want to shy away. Granted, if he matures and focuses -- which are certainly possible -- he could be a great QB, which would be awesome. Big Ben and other QBs have been very good QBs despite off-field issues while in the NFL.

Doesn't mean I cheer for Ben, and I used to be a big Steelers fan many moons ago.

Quez said:
bucsbaby said:
Winston may be more pro-ready today, but a HOF QB's career these days can be nearly 20 years long. Winston may be more ready to get the Bucs above .500 this year, but I can't help but feel that Mariota has more of the intangibles to be greater over the long haul. Time will tell, of course.
Click to expand...
So what would you do as GM? Draft Mariota and start Glennon in 2015? That wouldn't be too exciting for the fan base.
Click to expand...
The Glennon ship has sailed. They'll trade him for peanuts and it will be what it will be. If you draft Mariota, you play him, especially with the rookie contracts these days. If you draft Mariota, you think he is going to be better for your franchise -- today, and moving forward. I get that GMs and coaches are perpetually in win-now mode, but, as a fan, I'm less interested in the Bucs being 9-7 this year and more interested in them building a perpetual playoff team and superbowl contender. If either of these QBs can do that, I'm all for it, but I put a lot of weight on character and off-field issues and I want my QB in the mold of Peyton, Brady, Brees, Luck, Wilson, etc., and not a headcase or a Big Ben, Cutler, or even Cam. I get that Ben won the Superbowl too, but I still don't want my franchise QB to be in that mold. I want a high character guy on and off the field.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Touchdown There said:
mr roboto said:
Touchdown There said:
Grahamburn said:
Touchdown There said:
If you take a guy in the top 5 picks, he better be elite-elite. I don't see any elite-elite QBs this year.
Click to expand...
What does this even mean?
Click to expand...
Do you believe that Bortles will change the fortune of the Jaguars? Ask yourself the same question for Tannehill, Manziel, EJ Manuel, and Bridgewater. They are all going to go the Weeden, Locker, Gabbert, Ponder route. Wasted draft picks that set a franchise back many, many years. If you remove the obvious 1.1 picks from the last 5 years, all other 1st rounders are roster killers.

The really good teams with a settled QB situation love it. It just bumps better players into their draft slot and cripples the struggling franchises with a high dollar 5-year contract QB. It's not rocket science. There are no elite QBs in this draft, don't reach for one.
Click to expand...
Seems a little premature on Tannehill, Bortles and Bridgewater doesn't it?
Click to expand...
Nope
Click to expand...
Tannehill was QB8 last year for fantasy and is still growing as a QB. He is a former collegiate WR, with limited college QB experience. Other than being in a suspect organization, he is doing just fine.

 
Leroy said:
Touchdown There said:
mr roboto said:
Touchdown There said:
Grahamburn said:
Touchdown There said:
If you take a guy in the top 5 picks, he better be elite-elite. I don't see any elite-elite QBs this year.
Click to expand...
What does this even mean?
Click to expand...
Do you believe that Bortles will change the fortune of the Jaguars? Ask yourself the same question for Tannehill, Manziel, EJ Manuel, and Bridgewater. They are all going to go the Weeden, Locker, Gabbert, Ponder route. Wasted draft picks that set a franchise back many, many years. If you remove the obvious 1.1 picks from the last 5 years, all other 1st rounders are roster killers.

The really good teams with a settled QB situation love it. It just bumps better players into their draft slot and cripples the struggling franchises with a high dollar 5-year contract QB. It's not rocket science. There are no elite QBs in this draft, don't reach for one.
Click to expand...
Seems a little premature on Tannehill, Bortles and Bridgewater doesn't it?
Click to expand...
Nope
Click to expand...
Tannehill was QB8 last year for fantasy and is still growing as a QB. He is a former collegiate WR, with limited college QB experience. Other than being in a suspect organization, he is doing just fine.
Click to expand...
Dolphins will not renew his contract when it comes time and the guy becomes a career journeyman. Wasted pick that will never take them to the playoffs.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Joe Bryant
Feedback - Footballguys Business - Handling Bad Luck/Wrong Advice?
2 3
Replies
115
Views
3K
Deranged Hermit
Deranged Hermit
Ministry of Pain
Atlanta Falcons Offense '24- WR/RB/TE/QB and the OL
Replies
3
Views
179
zamboni
zamboni
TheDirtyWord
Going Against The Grain - Who You Got?
2 3
Replies
112
Views
5K
Chaka
Chaka

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 8 (members: 0, guests: 8)
Top