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Coach Josh McCown (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter twistd
- Start date
I don't care how much they're paying him, it's too much.Carter_Can_Fly said:
Last year they had no plan.
This shows that they realize that A, they completely screwed up the QB position last year, and B, they need to do something that is drastic but cheap to remedy that ASAP, because there aren't really any great solutions out there just now.
Take the journeyman, pay him enough to make sure he chooses your train wreck over the others, but not so much his salary is actually going to matter when it comes to building your team, and give him a year to learn the ropes for his future role as clipboard holder/veteran bench guy who knows the offense once you can get an actual QB prospect on your squad in a year or so.
This deal's fine for all involved. McCown's always been "okay." Of course he wasn't last year, because he was on the worst run franchise in football. But he has a whole career of .500 stop-gapping on every kind of franchise that didn't league-worst-level suck, and CLE is a lot better than Tampa.
I think people are irrationally down on this CLE franchise, just because the Manziel and Gordon fiascos were so high-profile and public, but this team wasn't that bad without those guys last year -- in fact, it was better without them. And I'm not seeing a lot that suggests they're heading downhill particularly fast. I see them back around .500.
Louche
Footballguy
I agree. It's a fun narrative to keep beating on the Browns, but them giving McCown $15 mill over three where probably half of that is guaranteed makes plenty sense to me. They have a ton of cap space. What else are they going to do with all that cap space if they have no short term solution at QB? And them signing McCown doesn't limit their other options at QB. They can still develop Manziel or even take a QB in the draft this year.Carter_Can_Fly said:
Last year they had no plan.
This shows that they realize that A, they completely screwed up the QB position last year, and B, they need to do something that is drastic but cheap to remedy that ASAP, because there aren't really any great solutions out there just now.
Take the journeyman, pay him enough to make sure he chooses your train wreck over the others, but not so much his salary is actually going to matter when it comes to building your team, and give him a year to learn the ropes for his future role as clipboard holder/veteran bench guy who knows the offense once you can get an actual QB prospect on your squad in a year or so.
This deal's fine for all involved. McCown's always been "okay." Of course he wasn't last year, because he was on the worst run franchise in football. But he has a whole career of .500 stop-gapping on every kind of franchise that didn't league-worst-level suck, and CLE is a lot better than Tampa.
I think people are irrationally down on this CLE franchise, just because the Manziel and Gordon fiascos were so high-profile and public, but this team wasn't that bad without those guys last year -- in fact, it was better without them. And I'm not seeing a lot that suggests they're heading downhill particularly fast. I see them back around .500.
And yes, all the focus is on Manziel, Gordon and Gilbert, which makes Farmer look like a fool - but the rest of their '14 draft was really good so it's not all bad. However, I think they will struggle to get back around .500 as they have a much tougher schedule this year.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
The Browns had a plan last year but the key element failed, Manziel.Carter_Can_Fly said:
Last year they had no plan.
This shows that they realize that A, they completely screwed up the QB position last year, and B, they need to do something that is drastic but cheap to remedy that ASAP, because there aren't really any great solutions out there just now.
Take the journeyman, pay him enough to make sure he chooses your train wreck over the others, but not so much his salary is actually going to matter when it comes to building your team, and give him a year to learn the ropes for his future role as clipboard holder/veteran bench guy who knows the offense once you can get an actual QB prospect on your squad in a year or so.
This deal's fine for all involved. McCown's always been "okay." Of course he wasn't last year, because he was on the worst run franchise in football. But he has a whole career of .500 stop-gapping on every kind of franchise that didn't league-worst-level suck, and CLE is a lot better than Tampa.
I think people are irrationally down on this CLE franchise, just because the Manziel and Gordon fiascos were so high-profile and public, but this team wasn't that bad without those guys last year -- in fact, it was better without them. And I'm not seeing a lot that suggests they're heading downhill particularly fast. I see them back around .500.
Last year the team moved on from Brandon Weeden and Jason Cambell. The only QB on the roster was Brian Hoyer who was coming off of ACL surgery and their was no way of knowing whether or not he'd be ready for the opener so when the club was looking at the draft to address the QB situation they wanted a guy who they could plug in immediately if they had to.
They felt Johnny Manziel could be put on the field and produce even if he would take years to learn nuances of the position, the club felt with his improvisational style that they could just put him on the field and he could generate points should Brian Hoyer not be ready to play.
Hoyer was able to play but Manziel not only wasn't ready to plug in at the beginning of the year, he wasn't ready later in the year when they gave him his shot when Hoyer simply was not getting the job done and was regressing.
Over the first nine games he threw 10 touchdowns and only 3 interceptions.
Over the last six games he played in he threw for only 2 touchdowns and 9 interceptions.
In the first ten games he was accurate connecting on 60% in seven of those games but he only managed one game where he connected on 60% of his passes over the last five games. Hoyer not only looked bad, he was simply baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad.
The club put in Johnny, probably knowing he wasn't ready, and he was even worse than anyone could have imagined. I'm sure they would have wanted Manziel to show enough sooner but he looks like he doesn't have the ability to play NFL QB from what I saw. He looks like crap.
Hoyer isn't the long term answer and he doesn't want to sit on the bench or tutor his successor so he doesn't have value to the team.
McCowan can start, he can tutor, and he has the demeanor where he will sit on the bench and not complain if the team wants to take another run and allow Manziel another shot.
Last year the Browns had a plan. It obviously did not work but don't say they didn't have a plan or that the plan was idiotic because many people felt Manziel could play but he had off-field issues. A few said his game wouldn't transfer but many people thought he'd at least show more than that abortion where it seemed obvious he doesn't have NFL ability.
For anyone who wants to pile on the Browns, what is your master plan huh? Seriously what brilliance do you have for a sure-fire solution? Hoyer? Trade the farm for Mariota? McCowan is the (sic) 'best option' for what the club apparently is going to try which seems to be they'll give Manziel another shot. Considering the options it doesn't matter because they all pretty much suck so I am fine with the signing since it makes it easier to move-on next year when a different set of options will be available.
MAC_32
Footballguy
only one mil guaranteed beyond this year.
Mr. Retukes
Footballguy
That is exactly what the Browns did last year, you know.Carter_Can_Fly said:
Last year they had no plan.
This shows that they realize that A, they completely screwed up the QB position last year, and B, they need to do something that is drastic but cheap to remedy that ASAP, because there aren't really any great solutions out there just now.
Take the journeyman, pay him enough to make sure he chooses your train wreck over the others, but not so much his salary is actually going to matter when it comes to building your team, and give him a year to learn the ropes for his future role as clipboard holder/veteran bench guy who knows the offense once you can get an actual QB prospect on your squad in a year or so.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
In their defense and that of any team looking for a QB right now that doesn't have a top 3 pick: what other option do they have? All of the FA QB options are pretty bad. Trading up for a QB in the draft is a huge risk. You gotta just keep taking QBs in the 2nd round or later and hoping someone pans out. There's just not a lot of options. It sucks that teams that overachieve and constantly draft in that 8-15 spot are doomed to play the QB carousel until they get lucky and hit on one, but that's the way the league works.That is exactly what the Browns did last year, you know.Carter_Can_Fly said:
This shows that they realize that A, they completely screwed up the QB position last year, and B, they need to do something that is drastic but cheap to remedy that ASAP, because there aren't really any great solutions out there just now.
Take the journeyman, pay him enough to make sure he chooses your train wreck over the others, but not so much his salary is actually going to matter when it comes to building your team, and give him a year to learn the ropes for his future role as clipboard holder/veteran bench guy who knows the offense once you can get an actual QB prospect on your squad in a year or so.
Honestly, teams that don't have a franchise QB should just draft a QB in the 2nd or 3rd round every single year (unless they draft in the top 2-3 and take a 1st rounder).
Mr. Retukes
Footballguy
Hey, I totally agree with the concept of finding a stopgap veteran QB. I just don't think Josh McCown is the answer. He's a soon-to-be 36-year-old career backup who got lucky for 4 games in 2013 and has been cashing in on it ever since.
edit: Hoyer has a higher career passer rating than McCown, for God's sake!!
edit: Hoyer has a higher career passer rating than McCown, for God's sake!!
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Carter_Can_Fly
Footballguy
People are beating up on the Brown's because of how bad they have been the last while, and then when you factor in the decisions they have made the last couple years it leaves you shaking your head even more.
You don't get a pass as a team and franchise when you have failed to be .500 for 7 years running and when you only have one above .500 season in your last 12 years. When 7-9 feels like success it is a sign you have struggled for a good while. You also don't get a pass when you hire a coach and fire him after 1 year. You don't get a pass when your old regime drafted Weedeen and your new guys drafted Manziel and now signed a 35 year old career back up.
You keep saying what are they supposed to do?
Well since 2003 their last 12 years when they have mustered out 1 winning season how many misses or Qb's have they passed up with their early round picks? They are not the only franchise that has sucked the last while, but you Brown defenders keep saying what are they supposed to do? Well I guess the play would be find a qb? Everyone in the NFL knows you at least need an average guy to compete.
I have no idea why they could not sign Hoyer to be the guy who would compete and start the next couple of years grooming a younger qb and perhaps Hoyer even ends up being as good as Flacco, Alex Smith, and the just above average NFL starters of the league. I mean in a mess of a year he lead them to their best record since 2007 with a hurt TE, his WR 1 only playing 5 games, and two rookie RB's. Hoyer is also 29 compared to a 35 year old McCown and Hoyer was coming off a major knee surgery and had to learn a brand new offense. He is no world beater but he is not bad.
I guess it is tough to give the Brown's the benefit of the doubt until they start getting some results. But those saying what are they supposed to do? Well I will go on record as saying that Manziel is not going to amount to a starting NFL qb, but they seem as though they are going to ride it out the next couple years by going this route. Therefore the losing records will continue the next couple of years with McCown at the helm and Manziel in the wings. The Browns have passed on so many good qb's early in the first rounds of drafts year after year and with that has come losing seasons.
They need to find a qb, so they should spend early firsts on QB's until they find one.
You don't get a pass as a team and franchise when you have failed to be .500 for 7 years running and when you only have one above .500 season in your last 12 years. When 7-9 feels like success it is a sign you have struggled for a good while. You also don't get a pass when you hire a coach and fire him after 1 year. You don't get a pass when your old regime drafted Weedeen and your new guys drafted Manziel and now signed a 35 year old career back up.
You keep saying what are they supposed to do?
Well since 2003 their last 12 years when they have mustered out 1 winning season how many misses or Qb's have they passed up with their early round picks? They are not the only franchise that has sucked the last while, but you Brown defenders keep saying what are they supposed to do? Well I guess the play would be find a qb? Everyone in the NFL knows you at least need an average guy to compete.
I have no idea why they could not sign Hoyer to be the guy who would compete and start the next couple of years grooming a younger qb and perhaps Hoyer even ends up being as good as Flacco, Alex Smith, and the just above average NFL starters of the league. I mean in a mess of a year he lead them to their best record since 2007 with a hurt TE, his WR 1 only playing 5 games, and two rookie RB's. Hoyer is also 29 compared to a 35 year old McCown and Hoyer was coming off a major knee surgery and had to learn a brand new offense. He is no world beater but he is not bad.
I guess it is tough to give the Brown's the benefit of the doubt until they start getting some results. But those saying what are they supposed to do? Well I will go on record as saying that Manziel is not going to amount to a starting NFL qb, but they seem as though they are going to ride it out the next couple years by going this route. Therefore the losing records will continue the next couple of years with McCown at the helm and Manziel in the wings. The Browns have passed on so many good qb's early in the first rounds of drafts year after year and with that has come losing seasons.
They need to find a qb, so they should spend early firsts on QB's until they find one.
Old Smiley
Footballguy
"You don't get a pass when your old regime drafted Weeden and your new guys drafted Manziel and now signed a 35 year old career back up."
The Lombardi regime was in between there. They were looking non-stupid. What do Browns fans think of him?
The Lombardi regime was in between there. They were looking non-stupid. What do Browns fans think of him?
Louche
Footballguy
What puzzles me is when "bad" organizations continue to take risks with character issues and players with effort concerns. I can understand it when organizations like the Packers, Patriots, Seahawks or even the Bengals do it, teams that have had stability over a longer period of time when it comes to both the front office, coaches and leadership among players. But I don't understand it when a team like CLE thinks they can provide the frame to "fix" someone like Manziel that clearly had concerns in college. They passed on Teddy a couple times so it's not like they didn't have other options.
However I don't see any problem with giving McCown that contract. They have the cap space and they should do everything they can to improve on their QB group. Getting McCown on a cheaper contract wasn't an option. They either had to pay up or see him sign with the Bills or some other team. The FA QB market is horrific and this move gives them more options in the draft.
However I don't see any problem with giving McCown that contract. They have the cap space and they should do everything they can to improve on their QB group. Getting McCown on a cheaper contract wasn't an option. They either had to pay up or see him sign with the Bills or some other team. The FA QB market is horrific and this move gives them more options in the draft.
MAC_32
Footballguy
They did a good job identifying hazards, but in their short time here they really didn't add anything of tangible value. Between that and not being able to find anyone that wanted to work for them it was not going to work.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Joe Summer
Footballguy
They picked McCown over Hoyer because they're going all-in with Manziel, and they believe that McCown is more likely to be a mentor and tutor to Manziel. Which would be a great idea if Johnny Manziel was a legitimate NFL quarterback who only needed some mentoring to become a star player.
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Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Yes I am definitely asking what is your solution because how does complaining fix a problem? Some people sit around and complain but never try to figure out a solution, some just complain. So yeah, who cares about complaints? What is your solution?
Brian Hoyer wants to be a starter and be paid like a starter. He has defined his role in his mind. He did not perform like a starter the last five games he played in and he was regressing and every stat proves that he was getting worse as the year went on.
You say the Browns should stick with Hoyer. OK, he's a free agent asking for more money so that means you would award Brian Hoyer with a bigger contract and not make any changes with the quarterbacks who from last year.
You then say they need to spend early firsts and draft a QB. So in this draft it appears you want the Browns to trade-up to land either Jamies Winston or Marcus Mariota.
If Mariota or Winston are seen as can't-miss prospects they will be drafted. If they carry risk teams might be open to trading down so you would mortgage the farm by trading away at least two first round draft picks and probably other high or mid-round picks to take a gamble on a risky QB prospect.
So your best solution is to not only stick with the exact same QBs the Browns had last year but to award Brian Hoyer with a big increase in pay and then trade both first round draft picks to move-up for a risky QB prospect.
Since the club has already signed Josh McCowan its obvious they are not going to give Brian Hoyer a big increase in pay and resign him so that simply is not going to happen.
Looking at the draft. I don't think the solution is there either. I just do not think they will give up the amount it would cost to move-up.
A third option is to trade for a veteran QB and if Tampa Bay takes a QB with their first pick they likely would be open to trading Mike Glennon, or St. Louis would probably like to dump Sam Bradford's contract.
The last option is to take a flyer on a developmental QB later in the draft or in free agency.
The bottom is their is no easy solution but complaining is probably the worst thing.
I've suggested the Browns trade-down with one of their first round picks this year in order to acquire an additional first round pick next year where their may be better options but I do not like trying to force thing this year. FWIW I would have been fine resigning Hoyer but since it isn't going to happen I've moved-on. No use complaining and I think its counter-productive and actually is harmful because it puts unreasonable pressure on decision makers to solve a problem now when the solution won't be available till a future moment in time.
Mr. Retukes
Footballguy
I feel sorry for Browns fans who actually think they have a chance to be competitive in 2015. It's going to be another lost season and they won't even realize it until Week 9.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I'll let you know when i see one of those people around here.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
They picked McCown because Hoyer likely has no interest in re-signing with Cleveland.Joe Summer said:
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Interview with Josh from yesterday.
Host really hated the signing and even before he got Josh on the line he began he was goofing on McCowan but with every question that McCowan answered you could feel he was winning over everyone and by the end he had.
Pretty good interview.
http://www.stationcaster.com/player_skinned.php?s=70&c=476&f=4175803
Josh McCown w/ The Really Big Show (30:42)
Host really hated the signing and even before he got Josh on the line he began he was goofing on McCowan but with every question that McCowan answered you could feel he was winning over everyone and by the end he had.
Pretty good interview.
http://www.stationcaster.com/player_skinned.php?s=70&c=476&f=4175803
Josh McCown w/ The Really Big Show (30:42)
Deamon
Footballguy
It's crazy how much he's bounced around and in and out of the league. Nuts to be coaching high school ball then getting called up by the nfl. TWICE!
Faust
MVP
Pettine: Josh McCown 'can still spin it' for Browns
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000495903/article/pettine-josh-mccown-can-still-spin-it-for-browns
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000495903/article/pettine-josh-mccown-can-still-spin-it-for-browns
Pots
Footballguy
A guy like what? He's better than what they had, cheap, and sets a better example for the team than Johnny 'I put my night life before Football'
jurb26
Footballguy
A guy who's a terrible starting QB.
fantasy stud
Footballguy
Better than they had. We'll , so would derek Anderson and Rex grossman who have had similar careers to mccown. There is a reason why this guy was coaching high school and out of the league a few years ago. You will be lucky if he completes higher than 55 percent of his passes and rarely will throw more touchdowns than picks. Finally, it's not like he is a winner. I don't think he has ever played in a playoff game. The guy has no business getting starting qb money.
His contract is about what Sanchez is making. So consistent with bottom starting QB / Top high -end backup
He's spent his career leading teams with .500-ish talent to .500-ish records, and leading teams with terrible talent to terrible records. He's the definition of mediocrity, but that's what they're paying him for -- to stabilize the position till they can get an actual QB prospect in there.
The Browns look to be a .500-ish team again. I see no reason to assume he'd do anything other than what he's always done: get them there and call it good enough. It's what mediocrity does.
Manziel wouldn't get that team anywhere near .500, so McCown ought to have some value for the team.
The Browns look to be a .500-ish team again. I see no reason to assume he'd do anything other than what he's always done: get them there and call it good enough. It's what mediocrity does.
Manziel wouldn't get that team anywhere near .500, so McCown ought to have some value for the team.
Pots
Footballguy
He's played on one talented team in his career and had a 13 TD to 1 INT ratio with them. I'm not saying to expect that in Cleveland, but to judge him because he's been on some really bad teams in his career is pretty short-sighted. I agree with Freelove above me that he is a mediocre QB which is better than anything else the Browns had and should help the team be around .500. More than anything, it shows Manziel that he can't slack off ignore the team and expect to be the starter by default. It either inspires Johnny to be a better player and person, or keeps him where he belongs, on the bench.fantasy stud said:
fantasy stud
Footballguy
Last year tells you who mccown is. He was outplayed by mike Glennon . Glennon had a better completion percentage, td percentage, interception percentage, and rating on the same team. That is who he is.
Faust
MVP
Bowe: Josh McCown looks like a top-five quarterback
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000505481/article/bowe-josh-mccown-looks-like-a-topfive-quarterback
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000505481/article/bowe-josh-mccown-looks-like-a-topfive-quarterback
matuski
Footballguy
Dwayne Bowe on Terrelle Pryor: I have never seen someone transition to receiver so smoothlyFaust said:
11:22 AM - 31 Jul 2015
Dwayne Bowe says Joe Haden is the best cornerback he's seen since Champ Bailey
11:16 AM - 31 Jul 2015
Dwayne Bowe said today's Browns offense was one of the best training camp practices he's been a part of in 9 years in the league
11:14 AM - 31 Jul 2015
Stealthycat
Footballguy
Bowe also said the cheeseburger at Dairy Queen was " probably the absolute best burger I've ever eaten "
Yes. Assuming the question is something along the lines of, "What reasonably capable retread can we trot out there for one year till we can come up with a real QB solution?"
Rove!
Footballguy
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
This guy sucks. Johnny Football era around the corner.
