What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

QB Jimmy Garoppolo, LAR (2 Viewers)

IMO, what SFO probably should have done was trade for JG, see how he looked grasping the offense and how he looked in practice, and then sign him to an extension before he played in actual games. I would guess they may have been able to get him for 5 years and around $75-$80 million.
I'm sorry but JG would probably only do this if he knew he didn't have what it takes to be an NFL QB. The guy was at the very least going to get tagged for about a third of that. If he knew the team wasn't playing him on purpose for negotiating leverage, it would reflect pretty badly on niners management... I mean seriously they just traded a 2nd round pick for a guy who's an impending FA, what excuse could they conjure up to NOT see him play?

Who knows... for all we know this may have been the plan all along. It was only when Beathard got hurt in Seattle that JG came in and the rest was history.

 
How is a 5 year, $80 million deal "below market" for a player that made two career starts and didn't make it to halftime in one of them? This applies to any other position as well. Not sure any player with that little experience falls in line with being paid middle of the market, let alone top of the market. Garoppolo earned $3.5 million in 4 seasons. You think he would have said no to 5 years for $80 million with $35 million guaranteed? That's 10 times what he made in 4 seasons. Maybe he would have played hard ball and ended up at $18 million a year by wanting Osweiler money. That would be $90 million total. Sure, he could have said no dice and maybe played this year under the franchise tag, but if he didn't do well or got hurt, he might never see an $80-90 million offer every again.
You're a smart guy so I'm not sure why you keep using the total dollar figure when you know that doesn't matter. Let's focus on the guaranteed portion, remembering that you wanted him to sign a contract post-trade and before playing. There was a 99% chance he was guaranteed to make at least $23 million in 2018 as soon as that trade was completed. The 49ers were not going to let him walk for nothing after trading a 2nd round pick for him. At a minimum, they would have franchised him and if he didn't mesh well with the team, traded him elsewhere. And if that remaining 1% chance materialized, I'm very confident FA would have yielded him way more on the open market but maybe you disagree. 

Your question is then would he be willing to roll the dice on that difference of $12 million guaranteed, for the ability to prove his worthiness of a true market level contract for a franchise QB. And yes, I think he would, considering fairly marginal QBs still tend to get rewarded with massive salaries in this league. Barring a remote chance of injury where he never steps foot on the field again, even if his play is poor, it isn't like he would never get another contract to make up that difference. Subpar backup QBs make $6-8MM in this league...Garappolo wouldn't be out of the NFL with one bad season and I'm willing to wager that plenty of teams would be willing to roll the dice on him. 

So the downside to passing on "your offer": losing out on $12 million guaranteed, with the opportunity to make up at least a portion of that with new contract salaries.

Upside: as much as this contract with $75 million guaranteed and a strong likelihood of earning $90MM over three years, or even more if he ended up playing out the tag and performed well and then demanded a post-Cousins contract number. 

 
You're a smart guy so I'm not sure why you keep using the total dollar figure when you know that doesn't matter. Let's focus on the guaranteed portion, remembering that you wanted him to sign a contract post-trade and before playing. There was a 99% chance he was guaranteed to make at least $23 million in 2018 as soon as that trade was completed. The 49ers were not going to let him walk for nothing after trading a 2nd round pick for him. At a minimum, they would have franchised him and if he didn't mesh well with the team, traded him elsewhere. And if that remaining 1% chance materialized, I'm very confident FA would have yielded him way more on the open market but maybe you disagree. 

Your question is then would he be willing to roll the dice on that difference of $12 million guaranteed, for the ability to prove his worthiness of a true market level contract for a franchise QB. And yes, I think he would, considering fairly marginal QBs still tend to get rewarded with massive salaries in this league. Barring a remote chance of injury where he never steps foot on the field again, even if his play is poor, it isn't like he would never get another contract to make up that difference. Subpar backup QBs make $6-8MM in this league...Garappolo wouldn't be out of the NFL with one bad season and I'm willing to wager that plenty of teams would be willing to roll the dice on him. 

So the downside to passing on "your offer": losing out on $12 million guaranteed, with the opportunity to make up at least a portion of that with new contract salaries.

Upside: as much as this contract with $75 million guaranteed and a strong likelihood of earning $90MM over three years, or even more if he ended up playing out the tag and performed well and then demanded a post-Cousins contract number. 
So tinker with the numbers. Change the offer to 5 years, $90 million with $45 million guaranteed. People like to forget that playing under the franchise tag can end up being a negative for a player. Suppose JG ended up being franchised by SF. Suppose they took a step back and went 5-11, and Garoppolo played ok but not great. Call it 3700 yards, 22 TD, 17 INT. Or got hurt. So he got $23 million in his bank account.

Now he would still need to get a 4 year deal worth $67 million with $22 million guaranteed to get to where he would have been if he took the $90M/$45M deal I just proposed. Would the Niners be looking to give him that? Maybe, but I might guess probably not. Would they want to franchise him again and give him $30 million? Probably not. Would SF risk franchising him and trading him (and would he be that much in demand)? Doubtful. Would another team sign him for $17 million a year for 4 years? Maybe, but at that point he would be approaching Osweiler territory and who knows how marketable he would be.

IMO, franchising him would have been a more fiscally responsible option. At least they would have had a chance to see if his one month of good play last year was sustainable or a mirage. They could still have offered him the deal they just gave him at the mid point of next season. Ultimately, I think they could have found a way to keep him with less risk and fewer dollars.

 
So tinker with the numbers. Change the offer to 5 years, $90 million with $45 million guaranteed. People like to forget that playing under the franchise tag can end up being a negative for a player. Suppose JG ended up being franchised by SF. Suppose they took a step back and went 5-11, and Garoppolo played ok but not great. Call it 3700 yards, 22 TD, 17 INT. Or got hurt. So he got $23 million in his bank account.

Now he would still need to get a 4 year deal worth $67 million with $22 million guaranteed to get to where he would have been if he took the $90M/$45M deal I just proposed.
I got you to raise your offer by $10 million (guaranteed!) with a four paragraph post. Imagine what Don Yee could have actually done?

 
Where are people ranking him among dynasty QBs at this point? He likely will not out produce Rodgers or Brady (but with Brady's age he drops in the rankings). He has to behind guys with more upside like Wilson, Wentz, Watson, Newton, Goff - but after that he's probably right there:

1 Aaron Rodgers

2 Russell Wilson

3 Carson Wentz

4 Cam Newton

5 DeShaun Watson

6 Jared Goff

7 Kirk Cousins

8 Jimmy Garroppolo

9 Derek Carr

10 Matt Stafford

11 Andrew Luck

12 Tom Brady

13 Ben Roethlisberger

14 Dak Prescott

15 Jaemis Winston

16 Marcus Mariotta

17 Drew Brees

18 Matt Ryan

19 Patrick Mahomes

20 Mitchell Trubisky

21 Teddy Bridgewater

22 Nick Foles

23 Blake Bortles

24 Case Keenum

25 Phillip Rivers

26 Alex Smith

27 Andy Dalton

28 Sam Bradford

29 AJ McCarron

30 Eli Manning

With QB being so deep, I'm not sure he has a ton of trade value even if we're calling him a QB1 already - does he have top 3 upside?

 
Where are people ranking him among dynasty QBs at this point? He likely will not out produce Rodgers or Brady (but with Brady's age he drops in the rankings). He has to behind guys with more upside like Wilson, Wentz, Watson, Newton, Goff - but after that he's probably right there:

...

With QB being so deep, I'm not sure he has a ton of trade value even if we're calling him a QB1 already - does he have top 3 upside?
Where you have him seems fair to me, unless Cousins ends up somewhere awful I might swap them. As for your second question, hard to say at this point considering by 2019 the Niners offense should be entirely different at the skill positions. If they use their money effectively and he has a strong enough OL to work with, maybe top 5? The other guys mobility will continue to work in their favor, although I can see Wilson dropping out of the same top 5 fairly quickly. 

 
Where are people ranking him among dynasty QBs at this point? He likely will not out produce Rodgers or Brady (but with Brady's age he drops in the rankings). He has to behind guys with more upside like Wilson, Wentz, Watson, Newton, Goff - but after that he's probably right there:

1 Aaron Rodgers

2 Russell Wilson

3 Carson Wentz

4 Cam Newton

5 DeShaun Watson

6 Jared Goff

7 Kirk Cousins

8 Jimmy Garroppolo

9 Derek Carr

10 Matt Stafford

11 Andrew Luck

12 Tom Brady

13 Ben Roethlisberger

14 Dak Prescott

15 Jaemis Winston

16 Marcus Mariotta

17 Drew Brees

18 Matt Ryan

19 Patrick Mahomes

20 Mitchell Trubisky

21 Teddy Bridgewater

22 Nick Foles

23 Blake Bortles

24 Case Keenum

25 Phillip Rivers

26 Alex Smith

27 Andy Dalton

28 Sam Bradford

29 AJ McCarron

30 Eli Manning

With QB being so deep, I'm not sure he has a ton of trade value even if we're calling him a QB1 already - does he have top 3 upside?
I’d put him above Watson. I know most wont, but mobile QBs are more injury prone & IMO that makes JimmyG a more valuable commodity. And hey, if samlple size is such an issue for JimmyG, why isn’t it for Watson? And arguably Watson had the best WR in the NFL bolstering his #s. 

 
I’d put him above Watson. I know most wont, but mobile QBs are more injury prone & IMO that makes JimmyG a more valuable commodity. And hey, if samlple size is such an issue for JimmyG, why isn’t it for Watson? And arguably Watson had the best WR in the NFL bolstering his #s. 
I rank Watson higher now because for fantasy football the rushing stats help out tremendously - but I do share your concerns, especially since he's slight of build.

 
I rank Watson higher now because for fantasy football the rushing stats help out tremendously - but I do share your concerns, especially since he's slight of build.
Agreed - "if healthy" his fantasy assets are tremendous. The rushing ability and the weapons he should have will make him a valuable fantasy asset.  

That said, JimmyG arguably did more with less talent around him, and while I think the Niners will be improving on offense, the Texans should stay about the same? Maybe they bring in an impact TE, but more likely they draft one - and rookie TE's don't always have the most success offensively. 

I have other concerns about the Texans QB besides his slight of build/injury risk - the Texans bread & butter is defense. One might argue that much of Watson's value was because 1/2 the Texans D was hurt this year. They had very little pass rush, they couldn't stop the run, their top defensive players were hurt or out much of the season - and all of the time Watson played. 

So one might also argue that with Houston returning to health, the Texans may want to run the ball more, and have Watson manage the game more than carry the offense on his arm/legs. I'm not saying he'll turn into a pumpkin, but I have a very difficult time envisioning a scenario where Watson has to throw 50 yard bombs just to keep HOU in the game while constantly playing from behind. Unless HOU's defense tanks again, which seems unlikely. 

By comparison, Garapolo's Niners played better on defense with him in as starter. He put up multiple 300+ yard passing games, and multiple multi-TD games. And with the Niners likely to spend some cap space & draft picks on offensive talent, it seems more likely that Garapolo's ceiling will be higher next season, while Watson's ceiling (and maybe even his floor) could be lower than it was this year. 

Just an observation - I could be wrong here, but they played in two dramatically different sets of circumstances. And since we're discussing sample size, I have a hard time shaking the fact that Watson was beaten out as starting QB in camp by a pretty untalented QB, and only got his chance after both Yates & Heinike got hurt. So what did the Texans see in camp that resulted in Watson being behind those two scrubs on the depth chart? Obviously Watson went out and balled - but I think it's a legitimate question, and one that could be answered with more time on the field. I didn't see enough to guess at this so maybe some Texans fans here can enlighten me: was it just inept coaching that kept him down, or will more play expose flaws in Watson's game? 

 
Watson was beaten out as starting QB in camp by a pretty untalented QB, and only got his chance after both Yates & Heinike got hurt.
I'm not following this. Watson was "beaten out" by Tom Savage in preseason, but I think that's just because his coach was being conservative - and that only lasted one half of football.

Yates wasn't even added to the roster until Watson went down.

 
I like Garoppolo a lot and am high on him, but he has to be a LOT better passing than guys like Luck/Watson to make up for the massive difference in rushing stats.  Garoppolo has 21 career rushing yards in 7 starts plus time in reserve action. 

Luck averages about 300 yards and 3 TDs on the ground per season.  Garoppolo would have to out throw Luck by 1200 yards to make up that difference.

 
I like Garoppolo a lot and am high on him, but he has to be a LOT better passing than guys like Luck/Watson to make up for the massive difference in rushing stats.  Garoppolo has 21 career rushing yards in 7 starts plus time in reserve action. 

Luck averages about 300 yards and 3 TDs on the ground per season.  Garoppolo would have to out throw Luck by 1200 yards to make up that difference.
As for my rankings, if I knew Luck was healthy he would move up significantly. I have my doubts that he is at this point. As to this topic he'd clearly be ahead of Garropolo if he was.

 
I'm not following this. Watson was "beaten out" by Tom Savage in preseason, but I think that's just because his coach was being conservative - and that only lasted one half of football.

Yates wasn't even added to the roster until Watson went down.
That was more of an aside, and I meant savage but typed Yates. Sorry, brain fart. There’s only so many scrubby QBs I can remember at a time. 

But tracking with this, he still didn’t win the starting gig in camp from Savage, and Heinike was also above him on the depth chart (though only briefly since Heinike lasted only a few plays before also getting hurt) 

Are you suggesting Watson showed more talent than both but was placed 3rd on the depth chart because coaching was conservative and didn’t want to start a rookie even though he was so much better?

That’s possible, I concede - not how I’d coach a team as I think talent should win out in the end, but yeah, you can make the case for it. 

That aside, my main point was about trajectory. When evaluating a dynasty prospect (or even projecting for redraft) you can’t just take what these QBs did in 2017 & project it forward. And looking ahead I believe Garapolo has a somewhat more predictable trajectory of progress. OL help, getting Garcon back, change at RB likely, and more comfort in the system should open the playbook a bit as well.

Watson is on a team that’s always preferred to pound the rock and play defense. HOU should get healthy on D this off-season which obviously limits Watson’s upside a bit compared to 2017 when he was slinging the ball all over the stadium. I don’t expect them to not take their shots - they will, and Hopkins is a perfect weapon for that. But just as they may have been conservative about starting a rookie QB, the Texans also seem likely to be more conservative in the passing game if they’re in lower scoring, closer games and can dominiate with D. 

 
That was more of an aside, and I meant savage but typed Yates. Sorry, brain fart. There’s only so many scrubby QBs I can remember at a time. 

But tracking with this, he still didn’t win the starting gig in camp from Savage, and Heinike was also above him on the depth chart (though only briefly since Heinike lasted only a few plays before also getting hurt) 

Are you suggesting Watson showed more talent than both but was placed 3rd on the depth chart because coaching was conservative and didn’t want to start a rookie even though he was so much better?

That’s possible, I concede - not how I’d coach a team as I think talent should win out in the end, but yeah, you can make the case for it. 

That aside, my main point was about trajectory. When evaluating a dynasty prospect (or even projecting for redraft) you can’t just take what these QBs did in 2017 & project it forward. And looking ahead I believe Garapolo has a somewhat more predictable trajectory of progress. OL help, getting Garcon back, change at RB likely, and more comfort in the system should open the playbook a bit as well.

Watson is on a team that’s always preferred to pound the rock and play defense. HOU should get healthy on D this off-season which obviously limits Watson’s upside a bit compared to 2017 when he was slinging the ball all over the stadium. I don’t expect them to not take their shots - they will, and Hopkins is a perfect weapon for that. But just as they may have been conservative about starting a rookie QB, the Texans also seem likely to be more conservative in the passing game if they’re in lower scoring, closer games and can dominiate with D. 
Watson averaged like 30 passing attempts a game. Not sure that qualifies as slinging the ball all over the stadium. I don’t see where Watson averages fewer attempts per game next year no matter how the defense looks. 

 
I’d put him above Watson. I know most wont, but mobile QBs are more injury prone & IMO that makes JimmyG a more valuable commodity. And hey, if samlple size is such an issue for JimmyG, why isn’t it for Watson? And arguably Watson had the best WR in the NFL bolstering his #s. 
Watson also had his success in a way that's 100% not sustainable.  His TDs will regress bigtime as the sample size goes up.

 
Watson also had his success in a way that's 100% not sustainable.  His TDs will regress bigtime as the sample size goes up.
That was my assessment as well. His situation was far different than JimmyG's - the Texans have never been a "shoot out" kind of team as they were with Watson behind center. Seemed more flukey since 1/2 the HOU D was hurt. 

 
Watson averaged like 30 passing attempts a game. Not sure that qualifies as slinging the ball all over the stadium. I don’t see where Watson averages fewer attempts per game next year no matter how the defense looks. 
Not just the number of attempts - it's the type of attempts. How many passes beyond 30 yards did he make? I seem to recall a gunslinger approach. 

 
I took Jimmy G in a dynasty dispersal draft a couple years ago and have just sat on him waiting ever since.  I am desperately trying to get value out of Matt Ryan so I have a clear-cut, every-week starter.  Heck I may not even start Ryan but on the Niner bye week.

 
I took Jimmy G in a dynasty dispersal draft a couple years ago and have just sat on him waiting ever since.  I am desperately trying to get value out of Matt Ryan so I have a clear-cut, every-week starter.  Heck I may not even start Ryan but on the Niner bye week.
As I said to a friend recently... Jimmy G's floor is Matt Ryan.

 
wow can we pump the brakes on Jimmy G just a little? sheesh..7td/5 int. wins against teams that packed it in or had playoff spots already set. now an entire offseason has provided opposing DCs with enough film work to scheme against him...Kyle Shanahan is a good coach he'll get a lot out of Jimmy G..but if he really was the QB that everyone thikns he is, wouldn't NE have kept him,or gotten more for him?! I dunno, he beat lesser teams like  Chi, Hou, Tenn team late last year - yeah Tenn made the postseason but they weren't very good - see Buffalo - then they beat the Rams and JAgs each already having their playoff ticket punched and seeding set,  IIRC.

shocked people would put him ahead of Watson - DeShaun is someone who looks like the next great QB in the making..JG might be a good NFL QB but I dont see the fantasy relevance vs. what Watson did last season, he was simply amazing..

.as an owner of McKinnon in dynasty I hope this offense flourishes..but they're going to have growing pains ..

Vegas o/u for 49ers win total is 8.5..so they think they're only going to improve by 2.5 games over last season..I'm taking the under here.

 
wow can we pump the brakes on Jimmy G just a little? sheesh..7td/5 int. wins against teams that packed it in or had playoff spots already set. now an entire offseason has provided opposing DCs with enough film work to scheme against him...Kyle Shanahan is a good coach he'll get a lot out of Jimmy G..but if he really was the QB that everyone thikns he is, wouldn't NE have kept him,or gotten more for him?! I dunno, he beat lesser teams like  Chi, Hou, Tenn team late last year - yeah Tenn made the postseason but they weren't very good - see Buffalo - then they beat the Rams and JAgs each already having their playoff ticket punched and seeding set,  IIRC.

shocked people would put him ahead of Watson - DeShaun is someone who looks like the next great QB in the making..JG might be a good NFL QB but I dont see the fantasy relevance vs. what Watson did last season, he was simply amazing..

.as an owner of McKinnon in dynasty I hope this offense flourishes..but they're going to have growing pains ..

Vegas o/u for 49ers win total is 8.5..so they think they're only going to improve by 2.5 games over last season..I'm taking the under here.
I’ve been advocating this for 7 months now. The hype is out of control. Unfortunately Dennis Green has crowned him.

 
Garoppolo: 49ers focusing on finishing in red zone

Excerpt:

The 49ers scored points on 60 percent of Garoppolo's drives, per NFL Research, almost doubling the 2017 league average. The Patriots, for comparison, scored on 52.8 percent of Tom Brady's drives. 

The converse point to the above statistic -- beyond sample size -- is that most of those scoring drives were field goals.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Are you suggesting Watson showed more talent than both but was placed 3rd on the depth chart because coaching was conservative and didn’t want to start a rookie even though he was so much better?

That’s possible, I concede - not how I’d coach a team as I think talent should win out in the end, but yeah, you can make the case for it. 
This is the same coaching staff that repeatedly raved about how good Osweiler looked in practice. I don't think they can accurately evaluate talent, even if its on their own roster

 
This is the same coaching staff that repeatedly raved about how good Osweiler looked in practice. I don't think they can accurately evaluate talent, even if its on their own roster
I’m inclined to agree. They sure haven’t utilized Lamar Miller effectively since he got there. But that OL & QB situation has been inconsistent at best over that span. 

I’m kind of liking Miller & his 200+ carry potential this year if Watson looks good. 

Hoping to see something good in preseason - with not a lot of competition for carries he could be a bargain this year, if you can trust anyone but Hopkins. :yes:  

 
This nonsense with the porn star is making me wonder a bit about his mentality (and also his taste).
https://nypost.com/2018/07/23/porn-star-gives-jimmy-garoppolo-rave-reviews/
I have concerns. 

1. Judgement

2. Taste

3. STD’s can be a ##### if they flare up on game day

All the girls in the Bay Area he coulda had - an area chalk full of smokin hot girls...and he chose this? I’m baffled. 

It’s a bad look - and it makes me question everything about him.

that said, if he can ball on sundays I don’t really care who he’s balling in private the rest of the week. 

:shrug:

 
I have concerns. 

1. Judgement

2. Taste

3. STD’s can be a ##### if they flare up on game day

All the girls in the Bay Area he coulda had - an area chalk full of smokin hot girls...and he chose this? I’m baffled. 

It’s a bad look - and it makes me question everything about him.

that said, if he can ball on sundays I don’t really care who he’s balling in private the rest of the week. 

:shrug:
What STD’s do you have that present problems on game day?

 
I have concerns. 

1. Judgement

2. Taste

3. STD’s can be a ##### if they flare up on game day

All the girls in the Bay Area he coulda had - an area chalk full of smokin hot girls...and he chose this? I’m baffled. 

It’s a bad look - and it makes me question everything about him.

that said, if he can ball on sundays I don’t really care who he’s balling in private the rest of the week. 

:shrug:
You act like he’s getting engaged. They went on a date. I don’t get the attraction but to each his own. Maybe he jerked it to one of her movies in the past and wanted a taste of the real thing.  

Don’t understand questioning his judgement. I think he’s sending a clear message he has no intentions on being a one woman kind of guy for now. Who he is banging should have no impact on his performance. In fact, it shows how much confidence he has. This chick has banged a thousand guys (maybe more) and Jimmy is saying he’s better than any of them. The ultimate competitor. Lol

 
You act like he’s getting engaged. They went on a date. I don’t get the attraction but to each his own. Maybe he jerked it to one of her movies in the past and wanted a taste of the real thing.  

Don’t understand questioning his judgement. I think he’s sending a clear message he has no intentions on being a one woman kind of guy for now. Who he is banging should have no impact on his performance. In fact, it shows how much confidence he has. This chick has banged a thousand guys (maybe more) and Jimmy is saying he’s better than any of them. The ultimate competitor. Lol
:sadbanana:

 
Yeah, sounds like you gotta be even more careful just walking down some streets in San Fran nowadays, with the reports of needles and human waste.

Here's to Jimmy/Kittle connecting all afternoon on Sundays and not caring who he has dinner with after.

 
I have concerns. 

1. Judgement

2. Taste

3. STD’s can be a ##### if they flare up on game day

All the girls in the Bay Area he coulda had - an area chalk full of smokin hot girls...and he chose this? I’m baffled. 

It’s a bad look - and it makes me question everything about him.

that said, if he can ball on sundays I don’t really care who he’s balling in private the rest of the week. 

:shrug:
So do you have concerns or do you not really care?

I'm confused.

 
matuski said:
So do you have concerns or do you not really care?

I'm confused.
I have concerns now.

if he shows it’s not an issue by performing on the field, I won’t really care.

Since I don’t yet know Pt 2, I have to be Pt 1.   :shrug:

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top