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Post-Draft Bloom 100 (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Sigmund Bloom
- Start date
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I'm sure Brewtown will be perfectly fine with these rankings. 
a little down on his talent translating to production ratio and I think there's a lot of mouths to feed in detroit, not sure he will bubble to the top.
comfortably numb
Footballguy
Was a bit surprised to see Amaro fall that much.
Jets were a putrid offense but have seemingly upgraded.
Winslow and Cumberland were involved enough to make me think a more athletic TE could have some value in the offense.
Jets were a putrid offense but have seemingly upgraded.
Winslow and Cumberland were involved enough to make me think a more athletic TE could have some value in the offense.
It's probably a better destination than I'm giving him credit for, but I still see them as a heavy run-first team, and I'm not sure that regime change isn't around the corner, who knows what the next group would think of a one-dimensional TE who lacks speed?
comfortably numb
Footballguy
Solid point.
If Vick is the week 1 starter, do you think it helps/hurts Amaro for 2014?
EBF
Footballguy
I think you are missing the boat on Ebron and Robinson to some extent. 16 spot gap between Robinson and Latimer. IMO Robinson is the better proposition (by a fairly thin margin). Some issues with his lack of speed, but tough to find a tall guy who can move and cut like him. And I think Ebron is the best skill prospect relative to his position in the draft. We see QBs and WRs picked in the top 10 almost every year, but you have to go back to Vernon Davis in 2006 to find a TE who went as high as Ebron. I get what you are saying about the underachiever bit. He drops balls and doesn't seem like the most hungry player, but at some point the talent wins out and he has a lot of that. I think he's the #3 pick in a typical league even with the low positional value. In TE-premium he's my 1.01.
Avery
Footballguy
Awesome, Bloom! Been eagerly anticipating this since the day the draft ended.
I'll chime in as a Giants fan, who tries not to overrate Giant players, but still... a bit surprised to see Andre Williams that low as the 9th RB in your rankings behind a few guys behind young, entrenched starters.
Jennings and Wilson aren't exactly long term, formidable, proven road blocks to him getting on the field. You do site their poor OL, "I can't get excited about the Giants running game here", but we're talking dynasty and the Giants have been aggressive in FA on the OL and added a number early picks the past few years to the OL, I think things are looking better there, although there is clearly more work to do.
I'll chime in as a Giants fan, who tries not to overrate Giant players, but still... a bit surprised to see Andre Williams that low as the 9th RB in your rankings behind a few guys behind young, entrenched starters.
Jennings and Wilson aren't exactly long term, formidable, proven road blocks to him getting on the field. You do site their poor OL, "I can't get excited about the Giants running game here", but we're talking dynasty and the Giants have been aggressive in FA on the OL and added a number early picks the past few years to the OL, I think things are looking better there, although there is clearly more work to do.
Nice work - I would bump up the Running Backs quite a bit, but was a very nice read. I was unaware of a potential admitted loss of burst for Lattimore...
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
Agree Ebron too low. A TE going top 10 in nfl draft is rare, and he went to an offense who throws a ton.
He can't block and still went top 10, he's going to line up as a receiver ala jimmy graham
He can't block and still went top 10, he's going to line up as a receiver ala jimmy graham
If Denver had drafted Robinson and Jacksonville Latimer, I would more open to this. I also saw Robinson as the type who didn't understand how to turn his size into advantages and was hoping for him to land somewhere with a mentor.
Ebron is nowhere close to Vernon Davis, maybe the single best combine performer of all time. Ebron is going to yield to Fauria in the red zone, which is a big part of TEs being able to get into the elite tier.
I hear you, but Williams, like so many other backs in this class, doesn't strike me as a guy who makes a team feel like they have RB settled for the next 5 years. I won't be surprised if he has a run of some fantasy relevance, but will require Jennings injury and Wilson being down for good.
he's nowhere near Graham when it comes to "my ball" mentality. He's actually not a liability as a blocker. I understand what the Lions want to do with him. I just think he'll underachieve in both NFL and FF terms. Let's also remember the Lions really wanted to trade up for Watkins and this pick might have been a punt a la Browns/Weeden.
buck naked
Footballguy
"Janis has the physical profile to be a very goof NFL wide receiver" - that's not very nice, Sigmund!
Fiedorowicz is nothing special at TE and they just signed Graham long term. Ryan Griffin is also still there, oh and they don't have a QB. I only carry development FF TEs when they have TE1 upside. Don't see that in CJF.
Ealy is a DE/DT tweener and not a quick-twitch edge rusher. Developmental DE and not one that I am that high on. Wouldn't spend the pick/roster spot waiting for him.
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EBF
Footballguy
Yea, Ebron is not as solid or as fast as Davis. Davis is truly a freak of freaks in terms of his bulk/speed combo. On the other hand, I don't consider Davis a particularly good receiver or route runner. He doesn't have the catch radius that Ebron has. I didn't mean to compare them as players, but rather as draft commodities. Point being, for a TE to go this high means he's thought to be very special.
I'd compare Ebron more to Kellen Winslow. Similar height/weight/speed. Innate ability to make difficult catches (although he needs to be more consistent). Neither can flat out fly, but both guys have good movement and route running ability for their size. Really like the way Ebron gets into and out of his breaks for a 250 pound athlete. Very smooth, which is rare for someone with his dimensions. There seems to be a pretty strong consensus that he's an exceptional prospect and his draft slot reflected that, so for me he's a good option if you're looking for a safe and solid pick. There will be another 10-15 mediocre 2nd-4th round WR/RB prospects coming into the league every year, but we might not see another top 10 TE for years.
As far as Robinson goes, I just like the talent. Very good quickness. And he combines that with height and natural body control/jump ball skills. Most of the elite FF WRs are guys who have little man mobility in a big man body. Robinson isn't quite as solidly built as a Fitzgerald/Marshall/VJax, but of the 6'2"+ receivers in this draft he is the most elastic and the most agile. He's also still really young. I just like the proposition at his ADP of late 1st-early 2nd. I don't see him as a boom-or-bust pick, but rather a guy with a pretty high floor who should at least be a useful NFL WR2 and could be a mid-low #1 if it breaks right.
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Broader question here, but doesn't this have more to do with how they NFL sees the position than the talent coming out?
FUBAR
Footballguy
its more the talent coming out. next year will have at least 1-2 guys that teams see as "answers". the churn and burn nature of the position does make the gap between the elite backs and everyone else larger for FF. Look at what happened to Stacy and Bernard this weekend
ILUVBEER99
Footballguy
didn't mean to imply he is the same type of TE as Graham, just that he will be lined up and used in the same way. I don't see the similarity to the Weeden situation, if Ebron didn't go to Detroit he still wasn't getting out of the top 15. Detroit wasn't the only team who coveted him.
i guess he might have some bone head factor, but as far as talent goes he's up there, hence going so high in the NFL draft.
Interesting thanks. I was under the impression Ealy was thought of as quick twitch. Not that it matter but IIRC that was the first thing McShay said about the pick during coverage.
Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
You had a lot more good things to say about your bottom 50 players last year. Not sure if thats a good sign or a bad sign for the late round picks. In any case I think I'm going to go with a strategy of segregating the WR's and get to a cutoff point where I not longer think a guy has the potential to be a fantasy starter then hit up defense and RB's until the well starts drying up and taking one or two from there.
That's fair insomuch has he has a great 3cone time and the physical attribute of being a twitchy athlete in a vacuum, but his ability to actually convert that to pressure or otherwise combine it with other pass rush skills to produce is very very incomplete. We could be rushing to pick him up down the line, but I don't like carrying development DE
Biabreakable
Footballguy
While I realize this is the Lions teams do not just punt a 10th overall pick.
There seems to be a lot of bias and group think going on in how some players just cannot do anything right no matter how many positive signs are in their favor.
Faust
MVP
I do think that your Ebron ranking is bold, as it goes against the conventional wisdom, especially when you hear remarks like the following:
Lions GM: Eric Ebron can be a Jimmy Graham-like fit
Ebron was described by Mayock as not having the same elite physical traits as Vernon Davis (not as quick or "twitchy"); however, perhaps being a better athlete with better hands than Vernon Davis.
A few other observations on Ebron:
Lions GM: Eric Ebron can be a Jimmy Graham-like fit
Ebron was described by Mayock as not having the same elite physical traits as Vernon Davis (not as quick or "twitchy"); however, perhaps being a better athlete with better hands than Vernon Davis.
A few other observations on Ebron:
I do admire your conviction, making a case in ranking Ebron lower, and in sticking your neck out on this call. Only time will tell if you are right on this one!
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Well I listened to recent draft podcast and it seems like many of the people you are talking with share similar takes on specific players. So through discussion this creates a bit of an echo chamber where it becomes popular to bag on certain players until that humor has a life of its own and influences what might otherwise be a more objective analysis.
Thanks for the rankings, these are great.
I know this draft is considered by some to be pretty deep, given the amount of potential impact WRs. I know it is early, but how does this compare to next years draft which has some potential studs at RB.
Would you trade the last pick in this years draft (1.12) for any 1st next year?
I know this draft is considered by some to be pretty deep, given the amount of potential impact WRs. I know it is early, but how does this compare to next years draft which has some potential studs at RB.
Would you trade the last pick in this years draft (1.12) for any 1st next year?
unless the team you're trading with is stacked, i probably would, but i would also ask for a late 2nd-mid 3rd in addition
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Some questions on the changes pre to post draft with some IDPs.
On your pre-draft 100 you had OLB Kalil Mack, OAK at #16 overall, post-draft he dropped to #32.
Pre-draft you had OLB Christian Kirksey, CLE at #71, post-draft you have him climbing up to #34.
You stated that you felt Mack would go to Jax and have the role of LEO under Gus Bradley so you were disappointed he didn't land there.
Then with Kirksey you noted last year Pettine's success with Kiko Alonzo and felt Christian 'could' match that same value.
Mack and Kirksey have the exact same talent, you bumped one up signficantly and dropped one double his pre-draft ranking based on coaching.
Could you explain why the Raiders wouldn't get as much out of Mack as Bradley? I think they have a good idea of how to use him.
And do you think Kirksey will produce as much as Kiko Alonzo? Kirksey pick caught me off guard. I do think Pettine/Jim O'Brien have a plan but I'm not sure I would anticipate Kiko Alonzo production. I'd love it but I don't anticipate that.
I'm curious to hear your takes on those two guys Bloom.
On your pre-draft 100 you had OLB Kalil Mack, OAK at #16 overall, post-draft he dropped to #32.
Pre-draft you had OLB Christian Kirksey, CLE at #71, post-draft you have him climbing up to #34.
You stated that you felt Mack would go to Jax and have the role of LEO under Gus Bradley so you were disappointed he didn't land there.
Then with Kirksey you noted last year Pettine's success with Kiko Alonzo and felt Christian 'could' match that same value.
Mack and Kirksey have the exact same talent, you bumped one up signficantly and dropped one double his pre-draft ranking based on coaching.
Could you explain why the Raiders wouldn't get as much out of Mack as Bradley? I think they have a good idea of how to use him.
And do you think Kirksey will produce as much as Kiko Alonzo? Kirksey pick caught me off guard. I do think Pettine/Jim O'Brien have a plan but I'm not sure I would anticipate Kiko Alonzo production. I'd love it but I don't anticipate that.
I'm curious to hear your takes on those two guys Bloom.
Avery
Footballguy
Hey Bloom - To unpack your feelings on Ebron a bit further, and I'm not sure how deeply you've dug into it yet, but about where would you put Ebron dynasty wise in comparison to TEs currently in the league?
It reads like you'd put him below Cameron and Thomas. Would you tier him with, below, above Davis, Eifert, Ertz, Olson?
Because Mack is classified as an LB, but I would expect DE snaps on passing downs which makes his value more like a 3-4 OLB, and he's not an ELITE pass rusher like Von Miller. On the other hand, Kirksey will be in position to roam and gather up a lot of tackles and be around the ball a lot behind big ole front 3 in Cleveland.
Donnybrook
Footballguy
Good rankings. I like your ranking on TJ Jones, Preston Brown and some others. I hope I can steal them in my up coming rookie draft.
Jones is interesting, but only if Ebron tanks. Brown is a two-down thumper, usually FF kryptonite but you never know
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Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Good stuff Sig.
Wouldn't Kalil be utilized in the same role as Leo under Bradley?
Also Pettine/O'Brien deserve credit for developing Alonzo but probably they don't get all of the credit.
I have to give some credit to Doug Whaley, Bills GM, for finding Kiko in the third round of last year's draft.
For as much as I am quickly coming around on the new speedy/athletic coverage MLB types entering the league, Kiko-Shazier-Kirksey-etc, their isn't enough data/players for me to try and get a handle on comparing players/production ALA Kirksey-Kiko Alonzo.
Also did you see the Bouche take on Shazier?
Really intereting stuff out today from Ed on how the Steelers plan to use Shazier in a Troy-P type of psuedo SS/cover-LB role.
Interesting stuff here:
http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2014/05/13/Draft-upholds-Steelers-philosophy/stories/201405130061
Maybe this is the new-wave plan NFL teams are adapting to deal with the passing attacks.
Quez
Footballguy
Freeman is going to skyrocket up peoples draft boards in ppr. He was a beast at FSU and should be great in that offense.
I'm not sure if I see Evans getting the targets in Tampa.
Bump Charles Sims up. He will be the #2 RB and is a better pass catcher than Martin. Martin can catch but is too short to line up like a WR. He got hurt stretching out last year.
I'm not sure if I see Evans getting the targets in Tampa.
Bump Charles Sims up. He will be the #2 RB and is a better pass catcher than Martin. Martin can catch but is too short to line up like a WR. He got hurt stretching out last year.
The main difference bw Mack in OAK and Mack in JAX is that I think he'd be classified as DE in JAX, but you're right about roles.
re: Shazier this is very similar to the talk about Sean Spence, who was a little lighter, but otherwise similar. He had a catastrophic knee injury pretty much right away, so back to the drawing board. Shamarko Thomas was also mentioned as a Polamalu replacement (they gave up a 3rd this year to go get him in the 4th last year). Obviously the Steelers are obsessed with keeping that Polamalu element that can blitz, come up in the box, cover from sideline to sideline... but Polamalu also had ridiculous instincts to sniff out plays in his heyday...
Shutout
Footballguy
I think Bloom is dead on with Ebron. People may be playing connect the dots a bit too much.
He is not the same guy as Graham and he has very legit players that are going to scrape off layers of his opportunity. In the RZ, Fauria is there. Is calvin going to see a noted decrease in order to feed the targets to Ebron? Pettigrew is still there, for whatever it is worth, for whatever amount of time.
Bush and Bell are always threats to take some of that short stuff.
And, they just added a legit 2nd Wr.
To me, I see lots of spread it around type play and that usually isn't conducive to TE stardom. What they have in New Orleans is an unnatural love from Brees to Graham and Graham has shown he can go get that ball. I'm not sure I see the thing in Ebron. I think we have a Jared Cook/Greg Olsen on our hands. Sure, he will do it sometimes. He will get what's left open for him. He will show athleticism. But he's not a guy you have to say "if we don't specifically plan for him, he will destroy us."
He is not the same guy as Graham and he has very legit players that are going to scrape off layers of his opportunity. In the RZ, Fauria is there. Is calvin going to see a noted decrease in order to feed the targets to Ebron? Pettigrew is still there, for whatever it is worth, for whatever amount of time.
Bush and Bell are always threats to take some of that short stuff.
And, they just added a legit 2nd Wr.
To me, I see lots of spread it around type play and that usually isn't conducive to TE stardom. What they have in New Orleans is an unnatural love from Brees to Graham and Graham has shown he can go get that ball. I'm not sure I see the thing in Ebron. I think we have a Jared Cook/Greg Olsen on our hands. Sure, he will do it sometimes. He will get what's left open for him. He will show athleticism. But he's not a guy you have to say "if we don't specifically plan for him, he will destroy us."
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
In a dynasty league I'm not sure that you should be of the mindset that when you draft a TE, he's going to be productive as a rookie - it just doesn't happen all that often.
So with that said, why are we discounting Ebron based on the presense of a 29 year old RB, a 28 yeard old RB, a 30+ mediocre TE and a project TE?
That's a good point, really for all of these players - and that's where i come back to Ebron not dominating the way his tools and draft pick would lead you to think he would at UNC (especially in the red zone)
