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US Men's National Team (18 Viewers)

FT - already concerned about Sunday, but what more can you ask for?  Win every game, conceding just one goal, make the final. I’m happy for these guys. 

 
In a completely backwards fashion, Jozy has to take some blame tonight.  The lack of any confidence in his fitness and ability to stay healthy forced Berhalter to make the Zardes sub which almost single handed cost them the game on both sides of the ball. 

He missed a golden chance he has to bury and then has a terrible turn over that led right to the only goal the US has given up.

 
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Rodrigo Duterte said:
So all the other players forgot theirs?
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Every US player has worn these for the past ~4 years.  It is required by the training staff.

The NHL, NBA and NFL all have their versions as well.

The data is pumped into computers to help coaches tell the fitness level of a player during a game.

 
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CletiusMaximus said:
Also, the stupid hot-headed yellow. Soft perhaps, but stupid. Left the coach with no choice. 
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That's bad jozy.

But liked seeing more of good jozy yonight. Swag showed a lot too...especially when he was tighter to Bradley and being more careful picking his runs forward. Keep thinking what Adams would bring to them. 

and again, Cannon had a solid, consistent game... kept waiting for him to mess up, and I don't recall it happening once. Defended well, got forward well and smartly, tidy with the ball. 

Plus we got some zardoz fodder for the hype film.

 
CletiusMaximus said:
Also, the stupid hot-headed yellow. Soft perhaps, but stupid. Left the coach with no choice. 
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You are right it was stupid.  I think the other player was going to get the yellow card by himself but Jozy's petulance left the ref little choice.

By the way, I thought the ref, who was pretty young, did a really nice job tonight.

 
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Pulisic's two goals tonight push him ahead of a group of players.

He passed Vermes, Ching, Wondo, Mathis, and Klopas.

He is now level with Balboa, Perez, Wood.

Next up on the list is Boca.

 
Weston's 3rd goal puts him tied with players like John O'Brien and Stuart Holden who careers were decimated by injuries.

He is also tied with Chris Henderson, Gonzo, Brooks, Agudelo, Corona, Ricardo Clark, John Doyle, and Tony Sanneh.

Weston already has more goals than Benny, and Bedoya did while playing a similar position.

 
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The one thing that has surprised me this tournament is just how good a passer Weston is.  His mid range passing might already be the best on the team. 

I watched him a ton at club level last season but I think the constant changing of positions made it hard to see this skill highlighted.

I really hope his new coach finds a single position for him, preferably in the midfield.

 
Is the extra day of rest for Mexico going to be a factor? (Not sure if the delay affects US travel plans as well)

 
NewlyRetired said:
You are right it was stupid.  I think the other player was going to get the yellow card by himself but Jozy's petulance left the ref little choice.

By the way, I thought the ref, who was pretty young, did a really nice job tonight.
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I thought the ref did well until the last 5 or so when both teams had a series of cynical/late obvious yellow challenges and he kept the card in his pocket. It fortunately didn't escalate, and he was consistent at least...maybe even weighted to the US.

 
Found it interesting that JAM had Bailey on the left to go at Cannon, but he was quiet. It was only 15mins, but curious how much of that was Cannon’s play vs just the flow of the game. 

 
I thought the ref sucked and came really close to losing control of the game twice -- once right before the lightning and then again before the half.  Jamaica hacked down or impeded US players as they went by at least a half-dozen times in the first half and nothing was given but a foul.  Watson should have been off twice for three clear yellow cards.  Miazga should have been yellowed as well.  Meh.

 
Deep thoughts, ref and weather aside:

  • We're 5-0 with a 15-1 GD.  Yeah, it's weak teams, but all you can do is handle the games in front of you. 
  • When everyone is available we have a bunch of 20 year olds who will eventually make up our best midfield ever.  I can't believe I'm watching US players sometimes when Pulisic and Weston do their thing.  Adams, Pomykol and eventually Reyna are out there too.  Possibly some others.  Golden generation+ of midfielders or the new normal for the USA?
  • McKennie may have the best passing vision of any US player, ever.
  • I get why Cannon got the start, and he played pretty well, but I think I favor Lima for now.  When Yedlin is back I bet it's at the expense of Cannon -- I think GB will view them as like-for-like and Yedlin's an upgrade.  But I expect Lima still gets some run.  Hopefully Dest gets some playing time in a better league soon and makes all of the above moot.
  • If Lima plays LB in MLS I'd love to see him get a shot for us.  Ream will be exposed by good teams.  It remains the biggest hole in the team.  We need someone to emerge.
  • Still no idea who I want at CB beside Brooks.  Zimmerman, Miazga and Long all flash, but none of them seem like obvious choices.  It'd also help to see them actually playing with Brooks.  Sometimes a dominant CB makes the defenders on either side look a lot better.
  • Jozy doesn't give you that Energizer work rate, but he does a lot of things Zardes can't.  It's not a newsflash or anything, but last night really showed the difference.
  • Steffan's distribution is beautiful.  He found open guys on the wing all night with 40 yard passes and I don't think he missed any of them.  The US has never had a keeper that could ping it around like that before.
  • Arriola, Gyasi, Boyd, Morris and probably a couple others I'm not thinking of right now are the players we'll constantly wish we could upgrade.  If history is a guide, we probably won't be able to in the current cycle.  They're fine on their day, but nothing special overall.  The Ralston Line lives!
  • Three years is a long time for Bradley and Jozy to hold on -- even with the "redemption" story line and motivation.  We've got an obvious heir apparent for the former, but will need to groom someone to play in Jozy's spot.  I know everyone is saying Sargent is the guy, and maybe so, but it's too soon to tell IMO. 
  • Somewhat related.  Before the 1998 World Cup I had a chance to go see the US practice at George Mason.  I can't remember exactly what the argument was at the time, but there were people (including me) who thought maybe Wynalda wasn't our best choice at forward.  McBride was in the mix with Joe-Max Moore and Wegerle.  Anyhow, within five minutes of watching practice you could see Wynalda was superior.  Every touch was crisp and everything he hit was pure.  Seeing a dozen touches for each guy in a short span made it obvious Wynalda was the #1 choice.  The point is that coaches have a lot more information than we do -- seeing guys in practice every day is a huge advantage.  Maybe Berhalter is missing the boat on Sargent, but maybe he's just seen enough to know the cake is still in the oven.
  • Speaking of Berhalter, he seems to have them playing pretty well overall, and you can see the outlines of a style too.  Play out of the back, defenders who can find open teammates upfield, long switches of play to get into the attacking third, most of the assists and dangerous play coming in from the wings, pressing intelligently on defense.  It's a start.
  • None of this changes for me if we lose to Mexico.
 
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Ned said:
Found it interesting that JAM had Bailey on the left to go at Cannon, but he was quiet. It was only 15mins, but curious how much of that was Cannon’s play vs just the flow of the game. 
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It seems everyone in England wants to buy this guy. They said last night something about him playing better for Leverkusen  than he does for the national team.  I expect that's true, because I've never seen anything special from Bailey in the Jamaica games I've watched.

 
So I can feel stupid in the future:

Steffan, Dest, Brooks, Adams, McKennie, Pomykol, Pulisic -- if healthy I think those seven have a great chance to start in Qatar.  It'd be a nice core. Pulisic plays wide up front if Pomykol starts.

I like to think we'll upgrade on Arriola, but I bet we don't.

CB will be one of the known quantities today, but which?  Miazga, Long, Zimmerman?

That leaves two spots truly up for grabs:  left back and #9.

-----------Steffan

Dest, ??, Brooks, ??

-----------Adams

McKennie, Pomykol

Arriola, ??, Pulisic

 
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CletiusMaximus said:
It seems everyone in England wants to buy this guy. They said last night something about him playing better for Leverkusen  than he does for the national team.  I expect that's true, because I've never seen anything special from Bailey in the Jamaica games I've watched.
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because we have so many Yanks in Germany, I have had a chance to see Bailey play in the Bundesliga.  He is fantastic there.  For some reason he just could not get started in the Gold Cup.  I don't know if it was brand new team mates, or a new coach, but he is their Pulisic from a quality point of view.   I can't really explain why he looked so out of it. 

 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
So I can feel stupid in the future:

Steffan, Dest, Brooks, Adams, McKennie, Pomykol, Pulisic -- if healthy I think those seven have a great chance to start in Qatar.  It'd be a nice core. Pulisic plays wide up front if Pomykol starts.

I like to think we'll upgrade on Arriola, but I bet we don't.

CB will be one of the known quantities today, but which?  Miazga, Long, Zimmerman?

That leaves two spots truly up for grabs:  left back and #9.

-----------Steffan

Dest, ??, Brooks, ??

-----------Adams

McKennie, Pomykol

Arriola, ??, Pulisic
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One other name to emerge in the U20 WC was the fantastic play of Chris Richards.  Sounds like teams have been poking Bayern about whether they want to give him up.  Tab yesterday said that Richards is the best CB he has ever coached.

Whether he is ready or not this cycle I don't know since he is so young as a CB.

The one real possibility as an upgrade for Arriola is Weah.  I think we should learn a lot about Weah this season at Lille.   I think at the very least Weah is going to be an upgrade over Morris and give better depth.

 
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NewlyRetired said:
One other name to emerge in the U20 WC was the fantastic play of Chris Richards.  Sounds like teams have been poking Bayern about whether they want to give him up.  Tab yesterday said that Richards is the best CB he has ever coached.

Whether he is ready or not this cycle I don't know since he is so young as a CB.

The one real possibility as an upgrade for Arriola is Weah.  I think we should learn a lot about Weah this season at Lille.   I think at the very least Weah is going to be an upgrade over Morris and give better depth.
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Forgot about Richards, but 22-23 alongside a vet would be viable if he's getting PT somewhere.

Also forgot about Weah.  Mostly because I'm just not sold on the hype.  But if the bar is "upgrade on Morris" you don't need him to live up to the hype.

 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
Deep thoughts, ref and weather aside:

  • Still no idea who I want at CB beside Brooks.  Zimmerman, Miazga and Long all flash, but none of them seem like obvious choices.  It'd also help to see them actually playing with Brooks.  Sometimes a dominant CB makes the defenders on either side look a lot better.
Click to expand...
Since I'm not knowledgeable enough to do a technical breakdown, I go by the 'intangibles' that I see.  In that vein, Miazga seems like a must-start at least in CONCACAF matches, as he can summon that nasty edge needed when things get chippy.  If I had it my way, he'd be a full-time starter after the last scrimmage against Mexico when he went nose to collarbone with Lainez, and it was that moment I had a vision of him being the US version of John Terry.  While I'm not really a Chelsea fan, I saw a decent amount of him on Saturday mornings and later on thanks to the power of youtube. With CONCACAF teams especially willing and deliberately looking to hack down Pulisic and/or any other star players, we're going to need an enforcer.  I also saw a bit of that from Swag in their friendly against France just before the WC last year, but I'd rather he stay out of trouble.

TBH, I'm not a fan of 'enforcers' in any sport, it seems that on the biggest stages on world soccer, these kinds of players exist and get away with their shenanigans for some reason.  Plus, I'm not asking for anyone to go full heel like Diego Costa or Sergio Ramos, but we're going to need someone ready to do that kind of dirty work when necessary.  I'd rather it be someone like Miazga, who also brings some talent to the table yet isn't fully irreplaceable.

 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
  • Still no idea who I want at CB beside Brooks.  Zimmerman, Miazga and Long all flash, but none of them seem like obvious choices.  It'd also help to see them actually playing with Brooks.  Sometimes a dominant CB makes the defenders on either side look a lot better.
  •  
  • Three years is a long time for Bradley and Jozy to hold on -- even with the "redemption" story line and motivation.  We've got an obvious heir apparent for the former, but will need to groom someone to play in Jozy's spot.  I know everyone is saying Sargent is the guy, and maybe so, but it's too soon to tell IMO. 
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like you I am unsure who should start along Brooks, but I feel very comfortable with that block of 4 this cycle.  Miazga and Zimmerman are still likely to improve and Brooks and Long are both still plenty young enough for this cycle.  

I don't think we have anything to worry about with Bradley.  Adams is a better player in every possible way right now when healthy, so if Bradley ages quickly, it is no big deal, and might actually be better in the long run for the team.  If Bradley continues to have a great attitude, keeping on the bench as a vet is fine with me.

Jozy is a strange one.  He is much younger than Bradley, but he looks just as old sometimes, and his fragility for a guy built like a mountain is legendary.  The quality difference between a healthy and in shape Jozy and anyone else is cavernous right now at that position.  We absolutely need some one else to emerge this cycle.  I consider this as or even more important than trying to find a legit average international level LB.

 
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Dinsy Ejotuz said:
.  But if the bar is "upgrade on Morris" you don't need him to live up to the hype.
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Right, this has been my talking point about Weah for a while. 

He does not need to live up to the hype to be better than Morris and he just needs to live up to the minimum hype to pass Arriola.  We saw during the U20 that Weah can do things offensively that neither Morris or Arriola can do.  We just need a little more consistency but that is not surprising given his age.

Big year for him.  I am a bit sad that France is one of the few leagues that is hard to find on tv.  Hopefully our video clip hero's will find a source for his all touch videos.

 
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One issue that has plagued Nips his whole career, both club and country, is that he is cursed in front of the net.  He gets himself into great positions to score almost every game but I have never seen a player have so many close shots saved.

 
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Charlie Steiner said:
Since I'm not knowledgeable enough to do a technical breakdown, I go by the 'intangibles' that I see.  In that vein, Miazga seems like a must-start at least in CONCACAF matches, as he can summon that nasty edge needed when things get chippy.  If I had it my way, he'd be a full-time starter after the last scrimmage against Mexico when he went nose to collarbone with Lainez, and it was that moment I had a vision of him being the US version of John Terry.  While I'm not really a Chelsea fan, I saw a decent amount of him on Saturday mornings and later on thanks to the power of youtube. With CONCACAF teams especially willing and deliberately looking to hack down Pulisic and/or any other star players, we're going to need an enforcer.  I also saw a bit of that from Swag in their friendly against France just before the WC last year, but I'd rather he stay out of trouble.

TBH, I'm not a fan of 'enforcers' in any sport, it seems that on the biggest stages on world soccer, these kinds of players exist and get away with their shenanigans for some reason.  Plus, I'm not asking for anyone to go full heel like Diego Costa or Sergio Ramos, but we're going to need someone ready to do that kind of dirty work when necessary.  I'd rather it be someone like Miazga, who also brings some talent to the table yet isn't fully irreplaceable.
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I think Miazga is the best one on one defender of the three.  

Zimmerman is the best passer of the three.

Long is the fastest, recovery wise of the three.

In the end it may be who plays the best with Brooks will win.

And when (not if, but when) Brooks gets hurt, rotating the three is ok as long as it keeps Gonzo off the field.

 
NewlyRetired said:
One issue that has plagued Nips his whole career, both club and country, is that he is cursed in front of the net.  He gets himself into great positions to score almost every game but I have never seen a player have so many close shots saved.
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The funny thing is, Rose Lavelle seems to have that exact same curse. Her ball skills and dribbling are off the charts, but she just can't put it in the back of the net.

 
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Have we already forgotten about Boyd and Lletget? While I flat out love the way nips and CP were working together last night and wouldn't mind seeing where that develops (and tbh, nips has been one of the most involved players for the US throughout the cup), those two and Weah have higher upside than Nips and will likely keep him off the field.

 
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Ignoring positions, I'd be curious to see rankings of our top 15 players. Just a list of our most talented players from 1-15.

Tiers would help if inclined to add.

 
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gianmarco said:
Ignoring positions, I'd be curious to see rankings of our top 15 players. Just a list of our most talented players from 1-15.

Tiers would help if inclined to add.
Click to expand...
My tier one players today and guys I think could/will be tier one players soon(ish):

  • Pulisic
  • Adams
  • McKennie
  • Brooks
  • Dest
  • Reyna
  • Steffan
  • Pomykol
  • Richards
 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
My tier one players today and guys I think could/will be tier one players soon(ish):

  • Pulisic
  • Adams
  • McKennie
  • Brooks
  • Dest
  • Reyna
  • Steffan
  • Pomykol
  • Richards
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This is where I get stuck. If we start including Reyna, where’s the line drawn for including the Yutes?  

 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
My tier one players today and guys I think could/will be tier one players soon(ish):

  • Pulisic
  • Adams
  • McKennie
  • Brooks
  • Dest
  • Reyna
  • Steffan
  • Pomykol
  • Richards
Click to expand...
So my top 4 the same. I don't know the others well enough. So let's fill in the rest...

Sargent?

Weah?

Nips?

Yedlin?

Boyd?

Jozy?

 
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