El Floppo
Footballguy
I think it'll be more up to concacaf refs. Will they let the regions teams kick the crap out him or not. Because they will.
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US Men's National Team (15 Viewers)
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BassNBrew
Footballguy
1. Pulisic won't have anyone on him because all the defenders will be marking Gio.
2. Getting the crap kicked out of you won't slow down Gio.
TLEF316
Footballguy
A couple of us had the audacity to suggest that Gio MIGHT have more potential that CP based on where they were at similar stages.
I still think its possible. Lets see where Gio is 3+ years from now. Obviously CP is much further ahead now (as he should be)
El Floppo
Footballguy
He's been so good around the box. Great ball to Willian
I really hope his defensive duties are minimal for the US, and they line up in a way that just keeps him high up the field.
BassNBrew
Footballguy
El Floppo
Footballguy
Helloexactly
That's why I responded. Nobody made the claim gio is currently better than CP...which is where BNBs post seemed to come from. Like your posts against some fictional stance that Sargent was the best or future hope at US striker.
And fwiw...I'm of that opinion that Gios upside is even higher than CPs.
encaitar
Footballguy
I used to think this earlier this year, but don't anymore. Pulisic's last 3 weeks has shown that he has the potential to become one of the top 5 wingers in the world IMO. If we really believe Gio is potentially better than that, then we'd be talking a potential Ballon d'or winner and I don't think that's gonna happen.
El Floppo
Footballguy
I love CP. And I do think if he starts scoring consistently and is afforded a Hazard type of role where it's all about pusing into the box, going at goal and not concerning himself too much with defending...he could get into the elite realm. I worry about his frame and taking the punishment that a squatter Hazard did/does. Salah is a good comparison, and Salah has gotten himself jacked up...so maybe CP can do the same.
Again, I feel like Gio has more of the innate physical traits to go with already top class skills. Cp is a really good distributor...but Ive seen Gio already make passes beyond what I've seen from CP that have me salivating.
The US is still lacking Jozys replacement. but if somebody steps up, with Gio and CP buzzing around with that guy and SwagAdams behind them...already looking hopeful.
BassNBrew
Footballguy
This is what I'm poking at. Unless Gio is the second coming of Pele, his upside isn't approaching a guy dominating in the EPL in his first season.
Notice who started the attack on that last Chelsea goal with that touch right over the defender?
Charlie Steiner
Footballguy
I believe in the old cliché that a good coach makes the most of the talent he has; therefore, CP will be moved out of the position he's been flourishing in and into whatever position Beerhalter's system demands. If it were up to me, I'd build an attack that sees him doing what he's doing right now, and then surround him with enforcers to prevent him from getting hacked down in CONCACAF play, meaning in addition to McKennie being an automatic start, Miazga starts as well as an extra CB. I'm still not a fan of guys like John Terry and Sergio Ramos, but darn if they're not a necessity:
GK--Steffen
Cannon Brooks Long Dest
Miazga (Hear me out: with Dest and Cannon pushing up allow Swag and Adams to pinch the middle and Miazga central and behind them, to provide cover for the CBs on a counter-attack, and Dest and Cannon can push forward more. I concede this is not ideal, but this is specifically for CONCACAF, where a star like CP is going to need at least one enforcer.)
Adams Swag
Pulisic Reyna Morris (I like his toughness and work rate)
In theory, this could be a dynamic attack even though CP is clearly our best offensive player at the moment. With all eyes on him, guys like Morris and Reyna are good enough with the ball at their feet to attack as well, Swag and Cannon have height to be aerial targets, and Adams and Dest can provide a secondary attack while also being able to fall back quickly on a counter.
encaitar
Footballguy
I have to go see if I can watch some old Dortmund games from the last few years, because it feels like Frank has Pulisic playing completely differently than he did at Dortmund. I feel like Pulisic used to be the guy that looked for the pass unless he had a sitter. Now, it feels like he's looking for the shot and passes only when that's the best avenue. Today's goal is an example. Previously Pulisic tries to cross this to Giroud for a tap in.... Now, if you watch him look at the defender it's clear he's just setting him up to get a clean look on goal.
I like it a lot. If Frank can help Christian continue to build on this then I fully believe Pulisic will be the next Sterling/Salah/Mane type winger in the EPL. And he's a better dribbler than any of them IMO.
I like it a lot. If Frank can help Christian continue to build on this then I fully believe Pulisic will be the next Sterling/Salah/Mane type winger in the EPL. And he's a better dribbler than any of them IMO.
El Floppo
Footballguy
El Floppo
Footballguy
Huh...I thought he was playing an identical role to what he did at Dortmund.
ETA.. Winger. But major difference is he's either got the greenlight, tactics or just experience to consistently go at goal and take guys on when he sniffs the box.
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El Floppo
Footballguy
I stand by it based on what I've seen of each at the same ages. Talking about upside. Where Gio takes it vs where CPs already taken it the question.
The Gator
Footballguy
Sure, but can they do it on a wet and bumpy field on a Wednesday night, against a B team?
El Floppo
Footballguy
Sammy3469
Footballguy
I think the difference (which I want to give Lampard some credit for) is learning how to get space before getting the ball. That awareness gives him the extra half second to put the defender immediately on their heals. Game over.
Lamp never had the physically ability to punish defenders 1v1 like this, but he always knew how to generate that space before receiving the ball. That time is the difference between needing to use the passing outlet versus attacking.
Which leads to him having the space in the box to score today’s goal. I’m sure there are some Dempsey goals that had similar technical ability, but that may be the biggest WTF goal I remember seeing an American score. Just a commanding goal setup by the previous games. You think I’m cutting in, nah I’m fine going top short corner with a bullet off my off left foot. Just nasty. Not many players in the world can pull that off.
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Insoxicated
Just checking in.. been a while.
Been setting alarms to catch all Chelsea'a matches and it's been so much fun watching CP flourish. Just playing beautiful ball right now.
Too early for me to tell on Gio, haven't seen much in the way of live play. Just highlights. Definitely looks like elite potential. Is he televised much (international TV is fine)?
When do we get to first start to see then together for the USMNT?
Been setting alarms to catch all Chelsea'a matches and it's been so much fun watching CP flourish. Just playing beautiful ball right now.
Too early for me to tell on Gio, haven't seen much in the way of live play. Just highlights. Definitely looks like elite potential. Is he televised much (international TV is fine)?
When do we get to first start to see then together for the USMNT?
El Floppo
Footballguy
What I really loved in that was the tiny elastico he did at speed with his right to open up the space for the shot with the left.
I haven't noticed him creating the space as you say- I'll keep an eye out for it. I do think he's getting himself more directly at goal when he's around the box, while he was possibly less confident or deferred a bit more at Dortmund.
His speed of foot with the ball is already getting to elite levels. He's figured out how to unfoot defenders with subtle shifts and change of pace...that's he's adding attacking the goal as a result, is absolutely bonerific.
Gio will absolutely get a call up and probably see time next time the US convenes...whenever that is. Covid is putting the kabosh on international windows and wcq.
The bundesliga season has wrapped, so no more games on tv. They were regularly on fox.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Hello all,
Thank you for the many kind wishes I found in my PM box today. That was really nice of you.
My family and I are well.
I stepped away from this site as I had grown disillusioned with many of uninformed takes being represented as facts. This thread in particular took a really strange turn where people seemed to creating their own memes and then passing them off as every one else thinking that way. It was off putting to me but since it was my problem to deal with, I did not want to drag the thread down by constant arguments.
Unfortunately the first thread I saw when I came back today was Joe's MLS thread and some of the ignorance being shared unchecked by anyone with real information.
So this will likely be a very short stay for me, I don't have the patience to try and discuss with people who simply just want to make hot takes with no knowledge behind them.
=============
I would like to share one item before I go that I don't think I saw any mention of when I scanned this thread. As some remember, Antonee Robinson was all set to put his name on a contract with Milan before the doctor found the problem with his heart and the transfer was negated.
Wigan put him on the shelf immediately not knowing what to do with him. Then covid hit and everything went quiet.
During Covid though, Antonee got checked out by numerous doctors. By the time soccer started again, the doctors fully cleared Antonee to train.
Wigan put him right back into the starting lineup where he made the Championship team of the week at LB in the first two games after the restart.
I find this very cool. We all know that the heart conditions can end a career in its track if some one can't figure out what is wrong. It is nice to see him restart his promising career after this short hurdle. And it never hurts to remember he plays LB
=============================
I wish you guys well and hope that you and your families are staying safe.
I also hope that 8 years from now, knuckleheads like ourselves can have fun discussions about whether Gio or Pulisic were better US National Team players
Thank you for the many kind wishes I found in my PM box today. That was really nice of you.
My family and I are well.
I stepped away from this site as I had grown disillusioned with many of uninformed takes being represented as facts. This thread in particular took a really strange turn where people seemed to creating their own memes and then passing them off as every one else thinking that way. It was off putting to me but since it was my problem to deal with, I did not want to drag the thread down by constant arguments.
Unfortunately the first thread I saw when I came back today was Joe's MLS thread and some of the ignorance being shared unchecked by anyone with real information.
So this will likely be a very short stay for me, I don't have the patience to try and discuss with people who simply just want to make hot takes with no knowledge behind them.
=============
I would like to share one item before I go that I don't think I saw any mention of when I scanned this thread. As some remember, Antonee Robinson was all set to put his name on a contract with Milan before the doctor found the problem with his heart and the transfer was negated.
Wigan put him on the shelf immediately not knowing what to do with him. Then covid hit and everything went quiet.
During Covid though, Antonee got checked out by numerous doctors. By the time soccer started again, the doctors fully cleared Antonee to train.
Wigan put him right back into the starting lineup where he made the Championship team of the week at LB in the first two games after the restart.
I find this very cool. We all know that the heart conditions can end a career in its track if some one can't figure out what is wrong. It is nice to see him restart his promising career after this short hurdle. And it never hurts to remember he plays LB
=============================
I wish you guys well and hope that you and your families are staying safe.
I also hope that 8 years from now, knuckleheads like ourselves can have fun discussions about whether Gio or Pulisic were better US National Team players
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Welcome back, even if it is temporary. Hope you stick around and continue contributing, but obviously its your call. I hope you at least come back when they start playing for real again.
encaitar
Footballguy
Glad to hear you are safe! I have missed your takes in here and the other soccer discussion threads the last few months. I hope your stay isn't just temporary, but if it is... sad for us. However, take care of you first and if staying away makes your daily life better then so be it.
Thank you for that Robinson news. I hadn't even thought about him since the Milan deal fell through. I hope he continues to impress. Lord knows we need a good LB.
Thank you for that Robinson news. I hadn't even thought about him since the Milan deal fell through. I hope he continues to impress. Lord knows we need a good LB.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Poke_4_Life
Footballguy
Hey @NewlyRetired!
How does it feel knowing that CP has been the best player on Chelsea since the return? He's having a hell of a first season in the PL.
Also, where do you think Swag ends up? Seems Schalke has to sell him for $, right?
Exciting times to follow our young Yanks!
How does it feel knowing that CP has been the best player on Chelsea since the return? He's having a hell of a first season in the PL.
Also, where do you think Swag ends up? Seems Schalke has to sell him for $, right?
Exciting times to follow our young Yanks!
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
I strongly advise against this course of action.thanks guys. I am dipping my toe into Joe's MLS thread.........pray for me
El Floppo
Footballguy
I'm glad to see you, Andy, and VERY glad you and the family are all ok.Hello all,
Thank you for the many kind wishes I found in my PM box today. That was really nice of you.
My family and I are well.
I stepped away from this site as I had grown disillusioned with many of uninformed takes being represented as facts. This thread in particular took a really strange turn where people seemed to creating their own memes and then passing them off as every one else thinking that way. It was off putting to me but since it was my problem to deal with, I did not want to drag the thread down by constant arguments.
Unfortunately the first thread I saw when I came back today was Joe's MLS thread and some of the ignorance being shared unchecked by anyone with real information.
So this will likely be a very short stay for me, I don't have the patience to try and discuss with people who simply just want to make hot takes with no knowledge behind them.
=============
I would like to share one item before I go that I don't think I saw any mention of when I scanned this thread. As some remember, Antonee Robinson was all set to put his name on a contract with Milan before the doctor found the problem with his heart and the transfer was negated.
Wigan put him on the shelf immediately not knowing what to do with him. Then covid hit and everything went quiet.
During Covid though, Antonee got checked out by numerous doctors. By the time soccer started again, the doctors fully cleared Antonee to train.
Wigan put him right back into the starting lineup where he made the Championship team of the week at LB in the first two games after the restart.
I find this very cool. We all know that the heart conditions can end a career in its track if some one can't figure out what is wrong. It is nice to see him restart his promising career after this short hurdle. And it never hurts to remember he plays LB
=============================
I wish you guys well and hope that you and your families are staying safe.
I also hope that 8 years from now, knuckleheads like ourselves can have fun discussions about whether Gio or Pulisic were better US National Team players
I understand the frustration with the hot-take universe. and while it's easy for me to say to just let it go, especially since this a better place with you here, I support you in whatever choice you make. Unless it's leaving, because I'm selfish.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I don't understand? Isn't it common knowledge that zero MLS players could play in Europe big leagues?? I mean its not like any one from MLS has ever gone to play in Europe so this is so obvious to anyone who follows the sport....
yeah I am a sucker for punishment :(
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
You could just bang your head against a brick wall for an hour. Your call.I don't understand? Isn't it common knowledge that zero MLS players could play in Europe big leagues?? I mean its not like any one from MLS has ever gone to play in Europe so this is so obvious to anyone who follows the sport....
yeah I am a sucker for punishment :(
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
The ironic (?) thing is, right now there are only 3 Americans playing in the Premier League, including Indiana Vassilev. There was a time 10 years or so ago when there were routinely a dozen or so Americans getting regular play in England.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
hello my friend. Nice to hear from you.
I caught up on the threads discussion about Pulisic and while doing my best to ignore the Gio meme, I have agreed with many of the comments in here.
I have not missed a second of his play since the return. I loved how he played before Covid but the injury stopped all his momentum. But he might be playing better now than even before his injury.
IMO he is playing slightly different from how he played in Germany, mostly on his off the ball movement. He is even playing much different than Willian is in this regard. If you watch him when his opposite winger is attacking, CP becomes a true second striker. Many times his runs are so deep that he is passing Giroud/Abrahms across the middle and getting into the near post.
This is something Lampard has talked about in many interviews I have watched and that he wants his wingers to get in the box off the ball and score. Pulisic has taken this advice and really put into his game fully.
And like many of you guys, I watch these games wondering how this will translate into the US. I personally would love to see this same tactic used as using an off the ball Pulisic as a second striker should really help since none of us believe Jozy's will stay healthy and no one else has really shown through at the lone striker spot.
===========================
As for the Swaggiest cat in the land, from what I am reading unless Schalke suddenly finds a sugar daddy, the team is in DEEP trouble financially and with Swag being young and experienced, he appears to be a very easy player to sell.
I personally think he will go to a mid level Bundie team but the rumors of Everton are very interesting. Everton are likely to be able to pay more than a mid table German team and it might be a team that Swag could break into with some luck.
============================
As for our young yanks it is really fun. Here are some thoughts:
*Dallas getting pulled from the tournament is a huge bummer though because I really wanted to see how Cannon, Pomy, Pepi, Jesus and Tessman have progressed. Cannon in particular because he seems like a very easy transfer to Europe this summer but if he can't play it is obviously going to limit the offers.
* I remained convinced Dest has the best feet of any US full back in history, and given how many offensive wingers we have converted to full back, this is a strong statement. I really hope this translates to Concacaf. Having Pulisic, Gio, Dest and maybe Uly being better dribblers than any generation before them should open up new tactics for GGG.
* Speaking of Uly, gosh darn I hate his coach. The guy would not play any of the young players even when their season was done and dusted in terms of the standings
* Chris Richards is really exciting to me. I know the rumors continue to swirl that Bayern want him on the first team but I would much prefer a loan to another Bundie team where he could have a chance for playing time.
* I thought Gio pre Covid was incredible, but post Covid, he lost his edge IMO. He was not taking people on as freely as he did when he first was blooded. I am very interested to see which Gio we get next fall. With Sancho likely to move this summer, his minutes are almost certainly going to increase if he takes his opportunities.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
money, in two ways:
1) MLS teams are trying to milk the golden goose any time an EPL team knocks and are over valuing their players and transfers are not happening at the pace they should
2) When the EPL tv contracts exploded, the need for cheap talent (like US players represented when Dempsey played) has been significantly lowered
This is also one of the reasons that Americans are moving to Germany. They still have a lot of teams that need cheaper talent.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Speaking of Yanks in England, I don't know if you guys saw the ESPN report today but the "from sources" article states that Steffen will be staying with Man City as the #2 keeper in the fall.
If true that means he is an injury (or two howlers) away from his chance to play for a top 10 team in the world..............
pretty cool.
If true that means he is an injury (or two howlers) away from his chance to play for a top 10 team in the world..............
pretty cool.
encaitar
Footballguy
I'm torn on this. On one hand, yes it'd be cool to see Steffen play for a top side. However, I don't believe Ederson is going to ever be on a short leash. I'd prefer to see Steffen loaned to a bottom tier EPL team for a year or two then be given the chance to take over for Ederson.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I agree with you. Hopefully it works out some how for Steffen.
==================
Ederson's feet are elite. I would argue only Neuer is more skilled but even Neuer can't touch Ederson's distribution.
While I don't think the gap between Steffen and Ederson is huge with general shot stopping, cross catching etc type of duties, the gulf between their foot skills could not be any bigger.
I think Ederson might be the best passing keeper I have ever seen in my life. I swear he would be in the top 10% of players at this one skill even including all CB's.
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El Floppo
Footballguy
City play in enough competitions that their #2 should see plenty of time. That said...no idea how that played out the last couple of years.
encaitar
Footballguy
Actually a pretty good point here. Claudio Bravo is their current #2 and I just looked it up... He played in 17 matches this year.
Learning behind Ederson and from Pep and playing 15-20 matches doesn't sound as bad.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
did their appeal get decided on yet for whether they will be in European competition next year?
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The Gator
Footballguy
The Gator
Footballguy
And, I think I read somewhere that the top-7 will not participate in the League Cup next year - but that might strictly be down to scheduling conflicts with European competitions.
If Man City are banned, I think the #2 would start early League Cups, and early FA cups. But if Man City win their appeal, Ederson would likely get PL and CL games, while #2 would get FA Cup.
If Man City are banned, I think the #2 would start early League Cups, and early FA cups. But if Man City win their appeal, Ederson would likely get PL and CL games, while #2 would get FA Cup.
Ned
Footballguy
Ned
Footballguy
Wanted to share a cool moment even though it’s not USMNT related.
We’ve deepened our connection with the Union at our club recently which opened the door for a small opportunity. They used our facility to train for the MLS tourney. The kids got a kick out of seeing them talk about training at the facility on Instagram. Those little things go a long ways.
It was cool as hell hearing Twellman talk about them training in our little state on the broadcast yesterday. Proud moment for us.
————————
Union/US related. Apparently Celtic are sniffing around Mark McKenzie. No idea how serious it is. Also think it’s only a matter of time before Aaronson makes the jump to Europe.
We’ve deepened our connection with the Union at our club recently which opened the door for a small opportunity. They used our facility to train for the MLS tourney. The kids got a kick out of seeing them talk about training at the facility on Instagram. Those little things go a long ways.
It was cool as hell hearing Twellman talk about them training in our little state on the broadcast yesterday. Proud moment for us.
————————
Union/US related. Apparently Celtic are sniffing around Mark McKenzie. No idea how serious it is. Also think it’s only a matter of time before Aaronson makes the jump to Europe.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
A lot of the US talent has moved to Germany. The EPL is sourcing talent from everywhere, but Germany seems content to bring young Americans into their development programs. Perhaps the visa requirements are easier on the continent.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
It is my understanding that the visa requirements themselves are not much different but gaining a work permit to play in England is a pain the the butt for many Americans. Germany welcomes plenty of young Yanks who would never get work permits in England.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
Gotcha!
I honestly don't know what or even if Germany has any requirements. I think they only have an age restriction of being 18 if you don't hold a Euro passport (which both Gio and Pulisic did).
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NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I enjoyed this post, not only the line up but the creativity in your thought process. Thank you for sharing.Charlie Steiner said:
Here are my comments:
1) The back 4 would be my identical back 4 (with the small nit pick that Brooks and Long have to swap spots, Brooks is LCB by trade).
2) I really like the addition of Miazga at the 6 and your reasoning. I also think Miazga has the short passing skills needed for this spot. Unfortunately I think GGG over values players who can play the long diagonal ball from this spot, which is why he seems to be enamored with Jackson Yueill so far and I don't think long passing is Miazga's strong suit.
3) Reyna as a 9 is a very interesting choice. I think he would have to function though as a false 9 where he actually drops in between and behind Pulisic and Morris. I can't rate how he would play as a classic 9 because I don't think he has ever played that spot.
===============
The following is not related to your post but it was an interesting line up/tactic suggestion I watched on youtube yesterday. Typically many of us when we do our lineup, we spread our skilled players out, hoping that it will be harder for the opposition to contain multiple spots.
But the video laid out an interesting case for putting Reyna, Pulisic and Dest all on the same side of the field and allowing them to interchange and overload one side of the defense.
I can see some merit in this. The US does not possess a plethora of technically proficient players so keeping the good feet together on one side might see better close interchange happening, and then leave the work horses like Morris, Swag and Cannon on the other side of the pitch.
Of course the flip side of this is Dest is going to get caught up field constantly (and he does not possess Yedlin's recovery speed), and Pulisic is not going to provide any useful cover. It may fall to Adams to constantly have to clean up which can get dicey during the games when we can't seem to score.
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AAABatteries
Footballguy
Absolutely. Ned finally got something right.Ned said:
Hey - side topic, how is soccer going for your boys. I haven't seen an update in a while or missed it.
