What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Awful trade offers (1 Viewer)

renesauz

IBL Representative
At what point do you get offended and angry when you get an offer that is beyond bad?

I recently got a couple offers in a devy league that I actually had to sit on and try to become less upset about before responding. In the end, I still responded kind of harshly. Does anyone think Marquise Lee is worth two firsts PLUS either Ryan Mathews or a devy pick (Jeremy Langford) and Golden Tate? REALLY?

I understand that some folks like to send lowball offers to start, but come on.

 
Unless they specify in the trade note 'Here are the guys I'm interested in', I just don't return ridiculous offers.

 
I never get mad or offended. I just reject it and move on. I've seen tons of bad trade gets accepted, so I can't blame a guy for trying.

 
I never get mad or offended. I just reject it and move on. I've seen tons of bad trade gets accepted, so I can't blame a guy for trying.
This! Never understood the getting all upset over an offer. Like the above, many crazy trades are accepted so start with an idea or low offer and work from there???

 
I never get mad or offended. I just reject it and move on. I've seen tons of bad trade gets accepted, so I can't blame a guy for trying.
This! Never understood the getting all upset over an offer. Like the above, many crazy trades are accepted so start with an idea or low offer and work from there???
Maybe that's the other guy's way of saying he really likes Lee, and is not looking to move him for whatever the poster is trying to get him for...

 
I'll usually respond to an awful offer by countering with an official offer along the lines of my backup kicker for their stud RB or something like that.

 
I never get mad or offended. I just reject it and move on. I've seen tons of bad trade gets accepted, so I can't blame a guy for trying.
Meh. Its insulting when the offer is really bad... Hard to justify opening negotiations with a ridiculous low ball offer that insults your trade partner...

I can hear it now... "Just thought I'd help you out by offering some of my better devy players because yours are so weak..."

 
Why are you getting mad and offended at trade offers, you can just reject them. Is this really worth starting a thread to vent about a offer you are mad about? There was even a thread for this already, I searched it, you could have too.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=592437&hl=%2Bworst+%2Btrade+%2Boffers


I'll usually respond to an awful offer by countering with an official offer along the lines of my backup kicker for their stud RB or something like that.
So you just do reject it, you waste your time and send another offer that will just get rejected? You showed him.

Dont be offended at offers, be happy someone is sending you one in the first place. It could be an offer showing you who he has interest in. If people dont get an offer that is you virtually ripping them off most get insulted anyways.


 
Last edited by a moderator:
i never get offended by offers. amused? most definitely. value is a very subjective thing. i've seen many trades between two very experienced and skilled FF owners that made my jaw drop.

i always take the diplomatic approach to trade discussions. i'll most certainly educate an owner about my perspective of their offer and why i don't like it, but i never burn bridges no matter how ridiculous i find the offer to be. it has served me well over the years. i've made multiple trades over the years with certain dynasty owners that have a horrible reputation for low ball offers. i firmly believe that is a result of how i approach trade discussion and negotiation.

 
Why are you getting mad and offended at trade offers, you can just reject them. Is this really worth starting a thread to vent about a offer you are mad about? There was even a thread for this already, I searched it, you could have too.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=592437&hl=%2Bworst+%2Btrade+%2Boffers


I'll usually respond to an awful offer by countering with an official offer along the lines of my backup kicker for their stud RB or something like that.
So you just do reject it, you waste your time and send another offer that will just get rejected? You showed him.

Dont be offended at offers, be happy someone is sending you one in the first place. It could be an offer showing you who he has interest in. If people dont get an offer that is you virtually ripping them off most get insulted anyways.
I'm not offended, but if someone is gonna make me a ridiculous trade offer that is so lopsided that not even a novice player would consider it, they deserve to be mocked with a counter that is even more absurd. I am always willing to entertain trade offers, but at least make them realistic.

 
TBH folks- I do find ridiculous lowballs offensive when they are sent out of the blue, unsolicited, from an experienced and savvy owner.

It's a different story if I inquire about a player and they are genuinely much higher on a player than the market, but if you're going to send an unsolicited offer to someone to trade them one of your guys, that offer should be somewhere within a half mile of current market value. Hideously bad offers breed distrust

 
Why are you getting mad and offended at trade offers, you can just reject them. Is this really worth starting a thread to vent about a offer you are mad about? There was even a thread for this already, I searched it, you could have too.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=592437&hl=%2Bworst+%2Btrade+%2Boffers


I'll usually respond to an awful offer by countering with an official offer along the lines of my backup kicker for their stud RB or something like that.
So you just do reject it, you waste your time and send another offer that will just get rejected? You showed him.

Dont be offended at offers, be happy someone is sending you one in the first place. It could be an offer showing you who he has interest in. If people dont get an offer that is you virtually ripping them off most get insulted anyways.
I get this. When the centerpiece of a trade offer is a player for a player, it's much easier to explain it as a simple difference of opinion on specific player values. It's a lot harder to explain when the centerpiece is a rookie with a known rookie ADP for multiple picks+++.

There's distinct difference between lowball and insulting.

 
I never get mad or offended. I just reject it and move on. I've seen tons of bad trade gets accepted, so I can't blame a guy for trying.
This!Never understood the getting all upset over an offer. Like the above, many crazy trades are accepted so start with an idea or low offer and work from there???
Maybe that's the other guy's way of saying he really likes Lee, and is not looking to move him for whatever the poster is trying to get him for...
Then why send an unsolicited offer to trade him away?????????? You don't actively try to trade players you are higher than censensus on.

 
TBH folks- I do find ridiculous lowballs offensive when they are sent out of the blue, unsolicited, from an experienced and savvy owner.

It's a different story if I inquire about a player and they are genuinely much higher on a player than the market, but if you're going to send an unsolicited offer to someone to trade them one of your guys, that offer should be somewhere within a half mile of current market value. Hideously bad offers breed distrust
Exactly and after repeatedly receiving this type of ridiculous offers from the same owner, it gets to the point that I just don't pay attention to any offers after that and reject them automatically without considering them (and why should I, as I know they will never be even close to being fair?). As to why I would get upset...I got better things to do with my time than to deal with this crap.

 
I agree with Squis and know exactly which owner sent the original offer (I'm in that league and have received equally as bad offers)

Basically, I just ignore his offers and hit decline. I may get a chuckle about how much he over values his players

To the more salient point about low ball offers: i won't counter if they are ridiculous.

 
Depends how bad the offer is. If it's just a regular bad offer I laugh to myself, reject and move on. If it's really bad I still laugh, leave a comment along the lines of "you must be stupid", reject and move on. The only time I get annoyed is when someone tries to tell me I'm an idiot for not accepting an offer like cutler, Wheaton and and a future 2nd for dez cuz I don't have a backup qb. At that point, anything goes.

 
I have one guy in my league that has offered Jeremy Kerley for Christine Michael straight across several times. The same guy has offered several wavier wire caliber players for my top players. I figure one day he will offer me something good and I will miss out because I am so use to automatically rejecting his offers. Best thing is to not get upset and have a little private chuckle when you get these ridiculous offers.

 
Late last season in one of my leagues another manager was up in arms freaking out over a trade between two other owners. It was Dez for Jeffrey and Dobson. The guy was making the biggest fuss over it.

All that to say, value is in the eye of the beholder. Never assume that other teams equally value players as you do. Not only will you find yourself getting upset, but you will miss opportunities to hedge market value inadequacies when you really like a guy.

Another way to think about it, don't expect trade offers to align with market values. Different owners roll out different strategies and can have unique preferences.

 
i get the value in the eye of the beholder, but by making the first "bad" offer (in the OP Lee for 2 1sts AND Tate) the Owner proposing must by definition value the 2 1sts/Tate more than Lee or he would not have made the offer in the first place. So the only thing surmised is that both parties agree on that premise/valuation

whether that opens the door to start negotiations or not is up to the receiver... and if they even like Lee

[side bar: I really like when owners update their trading block and/or put a post on the league's MB saying who is "more" available, since we all know everybody is available for the right price]

 
I just laugh them off and reject. If they are overly bad I send a horrible offer back.

I got one the other day that was I give Terrance Williams for 30 blind bid dollars out of 200, so I countered with I give 70 blind bid dollars for Julio.

Even if the same person does it over and over who cares. It takes all of 10 seconds to decline and maybe another minute to counter with something as bad. In my opinion it is showing you are doing something right and have good players and the other owners aren't sure what to do right so they have to try to steal to get what you have.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
In my experience, there are 1-2 of those guys in every league. After a while I just start to tune out their offers or do like others said and counter with ridiculous propositions of my own.

 
In my experience, there are 1-2 of those guys in every league. After a while I just start to tune out their offers or do like others said and counter with ridiculous propositions of my own.
True. It is a good idea to dismiss bad offers from new league mates though... I always try to remember that they may not fully grasp the scoring or historical value and use a standard they are used to from a previous league experience. I've seen it plenty of times to realize months later or halfway through the season that they are more competent than expected. More so on those same linea is that it is easier to fleece new owners in that first week or two of getting used to the league (for lack of a better term).
 
Late last season in one of my leagues another manager was up in arms freaking out over a trade between two other owners. It was Dez for Jeffrey and Dobson. The guy was making the biggest fuss over it.

All that to say, value is in the eye of the beholder. Never assume that other teams equally value players as you do. Not only will you find yourself getting upset, but you will miss opportunities to hedge market value inadequacies when you really like a guy.

Another way to think about it, don't expect trade offers to align with market values. Different owners roll out different strategies and can have unique preferences.
Exactly. For all the people who think there's a clear line between lowball and insulting, why are the threads here that accuse people of collusion usually wrong? Because everyone is blinded by their own biases.

How does getting offended or responding harshly help you complete trades in the future? It doesn't. All I care about are my future trade prospects, not the fleeting satisfaction of telling someone I think they're stupid.

 
Every league should have a 'worst trade offer' message board to embarrass such owners, hopefully discouraging such behavior.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Late last season in one of my leagues another manager was up in arms freaking out over a trade between two other owners. It was Dez for Jeffrey and Dobson. The guy was making the biggest fuss over it.

All that to say, value is in the eye of the beholder. Never assume that other teams equally value players as you do. Not only will you find yourself getting upset, but you will miss opportunities to hedge market value inadequacies when you really like a guy.

Another way to think about it, don't expect trade offers to align with market values. Different owners roll out different strategies and can have unique preferences.
Exactly. For all the people who think there's a clear line between lowball and insulting, why are the threads here that accuse people of collusion usually wrong? Because everyone is blinded by their own biases.

How does getting offended or responding harshly help you complete trades in the future? It doesn't. All I care about are my future trade prospects, not the fleeting satisfaction of telling someone I think they're stupid.
Because they mistake trade rape for collusion.

 
i used to get upset.

but now i just keep sending offers back and forth with these guys ad naseum.

because eventually, they will send me an offer that is obviously in my favor and i hit accept.

 
Late last season in one of my leagues another manager was up in arms freaking out over a trade between two other owners. It was Dez for Jeffrey and Dobson. The guy was making the biggest fuss over it.

All that to say, value is in the eye of the beholder. Never assume that other teams equally value players as you do. Not only will you find yourself getting upset, but you will miss opportunities to hedge market value inadequacies when you really like a guy.

Another way to think about it, don't expect trade offers to align with market values. Different owners roll out different strategies and can have unique preferences.
Exactly. For all the people who think there's a clear line between lowball and insulting, why are the threads here that accuse people of collusion usually wrong? Because everyone is blinded by their own biases.

How does getting offended or responding harshly help you complete trades in the future? It doesn't. All I care about are my future trade prospects, not the fleeting satisfaction of telling someone I think they're stupid.
Because they mistake trade rape for collusion.
Sometimes. But more often than you think it turns out that they are wrong about which side wins.

 
Not really in line with what the OP needed to discuss....but.....

I tend to overpay drastically for players I really want. I am always, always ridiculed for these trades. Folks are always saying I paid too much, or the player I got wasn't nearly worth what I paid.....always because they had differing viewpoints on said players. That being said, I'm the one racking up championships with those trades playing huge roles in the successes of my teams.

Back to the OP situation....I also used to get upset with significantly lowball offers. Now, it doesn't bother me. I decline/reject those offers and then try to open up a dialogue with that person to see what he's really after. Usually they were just trying to see if I would bite and are willing to talk some. But not always. You will always have guys in leagues who aren't willing to work a fair trade and are only looking to make a trade when they feel they got the better of the deal and "won" the trade.

I only deal with those types if they have what I want and I'm willing to overpay. I go into those discussions knowing what I'm willing to pay and that I'd need to overpay. I'm okay with that.

Honestly though, I understand the frustration renesauz is speaking of.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I don't offended but dont expect me to trade with you in the future.

2015 2nd for a 4th round startup is one I got yesterday on phenoms...that was funny.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Not really in line with what the OP needed to discuss....but.....

I tend to overpay drastically for players I really want. I am always, always ridiculed for these trades. Folks are always saying I paid too much, or the player I got wasn't nearly worth what I paid.....always because they had differing viewpoints on said players. That being said, I'm the one racking up championships with those trades playing huge roles in the successes of my teams.

Back to the OP situation....I also used to get upset with significantly lowball offers. Now, it doesn't bother me. I decline/reject those offers and then try to open up a dialogue with that person to see what he's really after. Usually they were just trying to see if I would bite and are willing to talk some. But not always. You will always have guys in leagues who aren't willing to work a fair trade and are only looking to make a trade when they feel they got the better of the deal and "won" the trade.

I only deal with those types if they have what I want and I'm willing to overpay. I go into those discussions knowing what I'm willing to pay and that I'd need to overpay. I'm okay with that.

Honestly though, I understand the frustration renesauz is speaking of.
I agree with this, If the other owner likes a player a lot and isnt really looking to move him you have to be prepared to overpay and maybe overpay a lot for the guy if you really want to get him. But sometimes its worth it it u really want the guy, and can afford it with your roster

 
Not really in line with what the OP needed to discuss....but.....

I tend to overpay drastically for players I really want. I am always, always ridiculed for these trades. Folks are always saying I paid too much, or the player I got wasn't nearly worth what I paid.....always because they had differing viewpoints on said players. That being said, I'm the one racking up championships with those trades playing huge roles in the successes of my teams.

Back to the OP situation....I also used to get upset with significantly lowball offers. Now, it doesn't bother me. I decline/reject those offers and then try to open up a dialogue with that person to see what he's really after. Usually they were just trying to see if I would bite and are willing to talk some. But not always. You will always have guys in leagues who aren't willing to work a fair trade and are only looking to make a trade when they feel they got the better of the deal and "won" the trade.

I only deal with those types if they have what I want and I'm willing to overpay. I go into those discussions knowing what I'm willing to pay and that I'd need to overpay. I'm okay with that.

Honestly though, I understand the frustration renesauz is speaking of.
I agree with this, If the other owner likes a player a lot and isnt really looking to move him you have to be prepared to overpay and maybe overpay a lot for the guy if you really want to get him. But sometimes its worth it it u really want the guy, and can afford it with your roster
Correct... I think that's the take away here. The OP cited a lopsided trade in the eyes of 99% of owners. However, If Lee turned out to be a Dez/Calvin top-tier guy, we would all think the trade is fair. Since we cannot predict the future, we have to trade with an image of the future in our minds, and act accordingly. That's the reason why C Michaels value is so high... people see the talent and IMAGINE what could be. Owners demand prices according to that thought in their mind.

 
Not really in line with what the OP needed to discuss....but.....

I tend to overpay drastically for players I really want. I am always, always ridiculed for these trades. Folks are always saying I paid too much, or the player I got wasn't nearly worth what I paid.....always because they had differing viewpoints on said players. That being said, I'm the one racking up championships with those trades playing huge roles in the successes of my teams.

Back to the OP situation....I also used to get upset with significantly lowball offers. Now, it doesn't bother me. I decline/reject those offers and then try to open up a dialogue with that person to see what he's really after. Usually they were just trying to see if I would bite and are willing to talk some. But not always. You will always have guys in leagues who aren't willing to work a fair trade and are only looking to make a trade when they feel they got the better of the deal and "won" the trade.

I only deal with those types if they have what I want and I'm willing to overpay. I go into those discussions knowing what I'm willing to pay and that I'd need to overpay. I'm okay with that.

Honestly though, I understand the frustration renesauz is speaking of.
I agree with this, If the other owner likes a player a lot and isnt really looking to move him you have to be prepared to overpay and maybe overpay a lot for the guy if you really want to get him. But sometimes its worth it it u really want the guy, and can afford it with your roster
Correct... I think that's the take away here. The OP cited a lopsided trade in the eyes of 99% of owners. However, If Lee turned out to be a Dez/Calvin top-tier guy, we would all think the trade is fair. Since we cannot predict the future, we have to trade with an image of the future in our minds, and act accordingly. That's the reason why C Michaels value is so high... people see the talent and IMAGINE what could be. Owners demand prices according to that thought in their mind.
Here's the problem- I didn't inquire about the player- I didn't ask about him or send an opening offer.

The offers were from him, out of the blue.

The guy involved is ticked off at me because of this thread, although I never mentioned who/where. But the key to me is this (from an email):

But more important is the fact that what we personally think about players has little to do with what makes a reasonable opening offer. Whatever we think of consensus or public rankings and ADP is immaterial- it's assinine to attempt to trade away a guy you are higher than consensus rankings on for someone you are lower than consensus rankings on. Either you're hopelessly out of touch with those consensus rankings or your throwing $@%# against the wall hoping some idiot will accidentally hit accept.
 
I never get mad or offended. I just reject it and move on. I've seen tons of bad trade gets accepted, so I can't blame a guy for trying.
This!Never understood the getting all upset over an offer. Like the above, many crazy trades are accepted so start with an idea or low offer and work from there???
While this is true, I still think the owner making the initial offer needs to be in the ballpark of real value. No issues with them starting low, but there is a point where it just isn't the first step in a negotiation.

I wouldn't get mad, but guys that throw out ridiculous offers lose that "trade cred" with me, and I would usually just not waste my time trying to deal with them.

 
Vincesanity said:
I don't offended but dont expect me to trade with you in the future.

2015 2nd for a 4th round startup is one I got yesterday on phenoms...that was funny.
You see...to me this is the definition of "getting offended" by these offers.

 
Vincesanity said:
I don't offended but dont expect me to trade with you in the future.

2015 2nd for a 4th round startup is one I got yesterday on phenoms...that was funny.
You see...to me this is the definition of "getting offended" by these offers.
No I just have desire to seek out trades with these type of people. It's amazing how many deals and future deals get made between the same owners because they have a good relationship. If your thought process is to start with the most ridiculous offer and expect me to counter 8 times I'm just not interested in that.

 
I almost always call them out on it in the message board of the league. I sometimes post the trade offer in footballguys forums and repost the responses. I think some owners think others are just stupid and some are. But if there is money involved these stupid owners never last. In the free leagues they do so I put up with it to a point. I send these owners links to fantasy website rankings. I always say I don't care if you love a player if they suck in fantasy football why are you overpaying for them.

Most owners know not to pull that crap with me. I always love the older player for a young guy just starting to be good offers. I am giving you a top15 wr for a nobody. I say then why do you want the nobody. I hear I am rebuilding alot and hate that. This means I really don't have time for fantasy football or this year my team is tanking so I can get the 1st pick in the draft.

 
I never get mad or offended. I just reject it and move on. I've seen tons of bad trade gets accepted, so I can't blame a guy for trying.
This!Never understood the getting all upset over an offer. Like the above, many crazy trades are accepted so start with an idea or low offer and work from there???
While I understand this, I think that an owner still should be somewhere in the ballpark when it comes to the player(s) real value that they want to acquire. Sure, I can see starting low and negotiating, but there is a fine line between starting low and offending the other owner. You need to make at least a serious first offer if you want to complete a deal.

Now I wouldn't get offended by these offers, but guys that continually make them to me would affect their "trade cred" with me, and in the future I don't even attempt to deal with them, because it's pointless.....we aren't going to agree on value, and the other guy won't trade unless he's dominating the deal. I am not going to waste my time with them.

 
I don't get upset. I just reject and move on.

That said, I tend to distrust other owners who constant pull off very lopsided trades and/or make very lopsided trade offers. It makes me very reluctant to deal with them in the future. I feel like they're more interested in trying to get over on me than dealing with me honestly.

 
Jeremy said:
I don't get upset. I just reject and move on.

That said, I tend to distrust other owners who constant pull off very lopsided trades and/or make very lopsided trade offers. It makes me very reluctant to deal with them in the future. I feel like they're more interested in trying to get over on me than dealing with me honestly.
Maybe "upset" is too strong a word for you but clearly you don't like a garbage offer. It is insulting.

 
I don't offended but dont expect me to trade with you in the future.

2015 2nd for a 4th round startup is one I got yesterday on phenoms...that was funny.
You see...to me this is the definition of "getting offended" by these offers.
No I just have desire to seek out trades with these type of people. It's amazing how many deals and future deals get made between the same owners because they have a good relationship. If your thought process is to start with the most ridiculous offer and expect me to counter 8 times I'm just not interested in that.
This. Once you've proven that this is your tactic I'm just basically ignoring you unless you bring something good to the table initially but these type of owners are incapable of that.

 
While I understand this, I think that an owner still should be somewhere in the ballpark when it comes to the player(s) real value that they want to acquire. Sure, I can see starting low and negotiating, but there is a fine line between starting low and offending the other owner. You need to make at least a serious first offer if you want to complete a deal.
The problem with this is that most owners value "their" players more than they should. So, for many people who are looking to make trades this is almost impossible. Any negotiation is going to start off with a low offer because you have to start somewhere. Like you've said, it's a fine line between starting low and offending. It's also a moving target because in 1 league an owner may value a player far more than another league you play. So, why get offended at all? I never let trade offers offend me for this reason. Actually, I think it's funny when people let it bother them. Why would it bother you? Just hit reject and move on. Sometimes I'll just flat out say to someone, "I appreciate you're interest but my value on player X seems to be much higher than you would expect and I don't see us getting a deal done." Sometimes people aren't trying to nessecarily pull one over on you, they just genuinely haven't got a clue on what value you have on a said player. Sure, sometimes they are trying to pull one over on you but that is rare IMO. The thing is the control is always in your hands if you are receiving the offer. Getting upset about it is silly IMO.
 
While I understand this, I think that an owner still should be somewhere in the ballpark when it comes to the player(s) real value that they want to acquire. Sure, I can see starting low and negotiating, but there is a fine line between starting low and offending the other owner. You need to make at least a serious first offer if you want to complete a deal.
The problem with this is that most owners value "their" players more than they should. So, for many people who are looking to make trades this is almost impossible. Any negotiation is going to start off with a low offer because you have to start somewhere. Like you've said, it's a fine line between starting low and offending. It's also a moving target because in 1 league an owner may value a player far more than another league you play. So, why get offended at all? I never let trade offers offend me for this reason. Actually, I think it's funny when people let it bother them. Why would it bother you? Just hit reject and move on. Sometimes I'll just flat out say to someone, "I appreciate you're interest but my value on player X seems to be much higher than you would expect and I don't see us getting a deal done." Sometimes people aren't trying to nessecarily pull one over on you, they just genuinely haven't got a clue on what value you have on a said player. Sure, sometimes they are trying to pull one over on you but that is rare IMO. The thing is the control is always in your hands if you are receiving the offer. Getting upset about it is silly IMO.
I disagree. We all have access to consensus rankings- we all have SOME idea or feel for what the market value is for out players. If you send an offer to trade a guy who is ranked WR30, you should expect others to value them somewhere around WR30. The fact that you consider him WR15 is absolutely immaterial.

Similarly, if you're trying to aquire a RB ranked in consensus rankings as RB12, then it doesn't mean a darn thing that you think he should be RB20.

The reasonable approach to trading is to determine who on your roster you value at or below consensus and try to use them to aquire players you value at or above consensus. It's neither reasonable nor prudent to send out random offers trying to trade a guy you value ABOVE consensus for a player you value BELOW consensus. We aren't talking about counter offers here. You want my RB I consider RB10- I'm going to ask for a RB10 pricetag even if he's ranked RB 20, but I'm not going to be insulted by an RB20 offer. You want to buy my ranked RB10 with an opening RB20 offer- that's bad enough, but don't combine that by assuming I agree that your WR30 is actually WR15.

You can't ignore market value when opening trade talks.

 
While I understand this, I think that an owner still should be somewhere in the ballpark when it comes to the player(s) real value that they want to acquire. Sure, I can see starting low and negotiating, but there is a fine line between starting low and offending the other owner. You need to make at least a serious first offer if you want to complete a deal.
The problem with this is that most owners value "their" players more than they should. So, for many people who are looking to make trades this is almost impossible. Any negotiation is going to start off with a low offer because you have to start somewhere. Like you've said, it's a fine line between starting low and offending. It's also a moving target because in 1 league an owner may value a player far more than another league you play. So, why get offended at all? I never let trade offers offend me for this reason. Actually, I think it's funny when people let it bother them. Why would it bother you? Just hit reject and move on. Sometimes I'll just flat out say to someone, "I appreciate you're interest but my value on player X seems to be much higher than you would expect and I don't see us getting a deal done." Sometimes people aren't trying to nessecarily pull one over on you, they just genuinely haven't got a clue on what value you have on a said player. Sure, sometimes they are trying to pull one over on you but that is rare IMO. The thing is the control is always in your hands if you are receiving the offer. Getting upset about it is silly IMO.
I disagree. We all have access to consensus rankings- we all have SOME idea or feel for what the market value is for out players. If you send an offer to trade a guy who is ranked WR30, you should expect others to value them somewhere around WR30. The fact that you consider him WR15 is absolutely immaterial.Similarly, if you're trying to aquire a RB ranked in consensus rankings as RB12, then it doesn't mean a darn thing that you think he should be RB20.

The reasonable approach to trading is to determine who on your roster you value at or below consensus and try to use them to aquire players you value at or above consensus. It's neither reasonable nor prudent to send out random offers trying to trade a guy you value ABOVE consensus for a player you value BELOW consensus. We aren't talking about counter offers here. You want my RB I consider RB10- I'm going to ask for a RB10 pricetag even if he's ranked RB 20, but I'm not going to be insulted by an RB20 offer. You want to buy my ranked RB10 with an opening RB20 offer- that's bad enough, but don't combine that by assuming I agree that your WR30 is actually WR15.

You can't ignore market value when opening trade talks.
Who is the "consensus" we should all be using? There isn't one and that is part of the problem. You can use rankings where a guy is said to be WR20 and I can use rankings that say he is WR30. Who's rankings and "consensus" wins in trades? The consensus matters little. The value the owner giving up the player has is all that matters. The only real consistency in rankings is at the very top where the consensus pretty much agrees on things like the top 3 RBs are Charles, McCoy and Peterson. The further you deviate from the top tier of players the more subjective and cloudy the censuses becomes. It's not nearly as simple as you are saying.

 
While I understand this, I think that an owner still should be somewhere in the ballpark when it comes to the player(s) real value that they want to acquire. Sure, I can see starting low and negotiating, but there is a fine line between starting low and offending the other owner. You need to make at least a serious first offer if you want to complete a deal.
The problem with this is that most owners value "their" players more than they should. So, for many people who are looking to make trades this is almost impossible. Any negotiation is going to start off with a low offer because you have to start somewhere. Like you've said, it's a fine line between starting low and offending. It's also a moving target because in 1 league an owner may value a player far more than another league you play. So, why get offended at all? I never let trade offers offend me for this reason. Actually, I think it's funny when people let it bother them. Why would it bother you? Just hit reject and move on. Sometimes I'll just flat out say to someone, "I appreciate you're interest but my value on player X seems to be much higher than you would expect and I don't see us getting a deal done." Sometimes people aren't trying to nessecarily pull one over on you, they just genuinely haven't got a clue on what value you have on a said player. Sure, sometimes they are trying to pull one over on you but that is rare IMO. The thing is the control is always in your hands if you are receiving the offer. Getting upset about it is silly IMO.
I disagree. We all have access to consensus rankings- we all have SOME idea or feel for what the market value is for out players. If you send an offer to trade a guy who is ranked WR30, you should expect others to value them somewhere around WR30. The fact that you consider him WR15 is absolutely immaterial.Similarly, if you're trying to aquire a RB ranked in consensus rankings as RB12, then it doesn't mean a darn thing that you think he should be RB20.

The reasonable approach to trading is to determine who on your roster you value at or below consensus and try to use them to aquire players you value at or above consensus. It's neither reasonable nor prudent to send out random offers trying to trade a guy you value ABOVE consensus for a player you value BELOW consensus. We aren't talking about counter offers here. You want my RB I consider RB10- I'm going to ask for a RB10 pricetag even if he's ranked RB 20, but I'm not going to be insulted by an RB20 offer. You want to buy my ranked RB10 with an opening RB20 offer- that's bad enough, but don't combine that by assuming I agree that your WR30 is actually WR15.

You can't ignore market value when opening trade talks.
Who is the "consensus" we should all be using? There isn't one and that is part of the problem. You can use rankings where a guy is said to be WR20 and I can use rankings that say he is WR30. Who's rankings and "consensus" wins in trades? The consensus matters little. The value the owner giving up the player has is all that matters.The only real consistency in rankings is at the very top where the consensus pretty much agrees on things like the top 3 RBs are Charles, McCoy and Peterson. The further you deviate from the top tier of players the more subjective and cloudy the censuses becomes. It's not nearly as simple as you are saying.
Sure... you could debate WR20 and WR30 and have wildly varying valuations...

But, what if the offer is truly crap, like Calvin for Heath Miller because you need a TE upgrade.

 
While I understand this, I think that an owner still should be somewhere in the ballpark when it comes to the player(s) real value that they want to acquire. Sure, I can see starting low and negotiating, but there is a fine line between starting low and offending the other owner. You need to make at least a serious first offer if you want to complete a deal.
The problem with this is that most owners value "their" players more than they should. So, for many people who are looking to make trades this is almost impossible. Any negotiation is going to start off with a low offer because you have to start somewhere. Like you've said, it's a fine line between starting low and offending. It's also a moving target because in 1 league an owner may value a player far more than another league you play. So, why get offended at all? I never let trade offers offend me for this reason. Actually, I think it's funny when people let it bother them. Why would it bother you? Just hit reject and move on. Sometimes I'll just flat out say to someone, "I appreciate you're interest but my value on player X seems to be much higher than you would expect and I don't see us getting a deal done." Sometimes people aren't trying to nessecarily pull one over on you, they just genuinely haven't got a clue on what value you have on a said player. Sure, sometimes they are trying to pull one over on you but that is rare IMO. The thing is the control is always in your hands if you are receiving the offer. Getting upset about it is silly IMO.
I disagree. We all have access to consensus rankings- we all have SOME idea or feel for what the market value is for out players. If you send an offer to trade a guy who is ranked WR30, you should expect others to value them somewhere around WR30. The fact that you consider him WR15 is absolutely immaterial.Similarly, if you're trying to aquire a RB ranked in consensus rankings as RB12, then it doesn't mean a darn thing that you think he should be RB20.

The reasonable approach to trading is to determine who on your roster you value at or below consensus and try to use them to aquire players you value at or above consensus. It's neither reasonable nor prudent to send out random offers trying to trade a guy you value ABOVE consensus for a player you value BELOW consensus. We aren't talking about counter offers here. You want my RB I consider RB10- I'm going to ask for a RB10 pricetag even if he's ranked RB 20, but I'm not going to be insulted by an RB20 offer. You want to buy my ranked RB10 with an opening RB20 offer- that's bad enough, but don't combine that by assuming I agree that your WR30 is actually WR15.

You can't ignore market value when opening trade talks.
Who is the "consensus" we should all be using? There isn't one and that is part of the problem. You can use rankings where a guy is said to be WR20 and I can use rankings that say he is WR30. Who's rankings and "consensus" wins in trades? The consensus matters little. The value the owner giving up the player has is all that matters.The only real consistency in rankings is at the very top where the consensus pretty much agrees on things like the top 3 RBs are Charles, McCoy and Peterson. The further you deviate from the top tier of players the more subjective and cloudy the censuses becomes. It's not nearly as simple as you are saying.
You're missing the point.

FBG has Sankey as RB20 right now and Spiller as RB10 for dynasty values. A particular owner might very well value them about equally or even have Sankey ahead, but how many experianced DYNASTY owners who spend at least a little time on sites like this wouldn't know that MOST people have Spiller as more valuable? Would anyone really consider a straight up Sankey for Spiller opening offer as legit? It's a little murkier WR30 to WR20 of course, but those aren't the kind of deals we're talking about.

You could ask 100 experienced dynasty owners their opinions on the trade offers posited in the opening post, and 99 would laugh at the offer and say it's not just a little imbalanced, but ridiculously so. The only one to defend it would be the guy who offered it. Do you really think an experienced dynasty owner sending these offers doesn't already KNOW it's a bad offer?

Experienced owners have an idea what the market value is for most players.

We all value individual players differently, or else this hobby wouldn't exist.

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top