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[Dynasty] Todd Gurley

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So now we view Bell as a "lesser player"?

If Bell and Gurley both score 300 this year, then I guess I will just have to suck it up and be happy I own the #2 dynasty RB who isn't very far behind the #1.

Anyway, dumb argument. Bell is the clear #1 dynasty RB. 99.9% would agree with that, not because of groupthink, but because it's obvious.

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So now we view Bell as a "lesser player"?

If Bell and Gurley both score 300 this year, then I guess I will just have to suck it up and be happy I own the #2 dynasty RB who isn't very far behind the #1.

Anyway, dumb argument. Bell is the clear #1 dynasty RB. 99.9% would agree with that, not because of groupthink, but because it's obvious.

Partly because it's groupthink, but more likely tied to recency effects. People look at the most recent outlier data and generalize that the outcome will persist over time, especially in the absence of other confounding variables and competing factors. You are not alone in this simple approach. A lot of folks make this type of error in FF and in real life.

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Based on scout ratings, the better player is not pretty obviously Bell, if we're talking about talent. Gurley consistently has received much higher ratings than Bell.

:wall: Le'Veon Bell's scouting ratings are about as relevant as Tom Brady's or Antonio Brown's at this point. It's very clear that they are outdated. Bell dropped the weight and is a totally different guy now. Everyone on this board noticed it and, for the 10th time, vaulted him up their dynasty rankings BEFORE he put up elite production. He has a burst and lateral agility that he never showed as a prospect. If he re-tested at the combine now he would perform much better. And none of that accounts for how overlooked his vision and receiving ability are, much like we can't just ignore how much Tom Brady's knowledge of the game and ability to read the field was overlooked as a prospect.

He is going to need 80 receptions each season to maintain top-5 production

This is a ridiculous statement. He had 80 receptions last year and outscored RB5 by ONE HUNDRED fantasy points. You could cut his reception total in half and he'd still be comfortably in the top 5. I agree that his receiving numbers will likely regress to the mean some, but he has to lose a LOT of receptions to drop out of the top 5. His rushing numbers were in no way unsustainable. If he can maintain that you could literally cut his receiving numbers all the way down to 40 catches for 400 yards and he'd still be in the top 5, comfortably.

But, hey, if you're in the business of grabbing lesser players with the assumption that a good situation will always be a good situation and support that lesser talent, more power to you.

You're obsessed with trying to create an argument that's not there. People aren't arguing that situation > talent. They're arguing that you're vastly underrating Bell's talent. Maybe not quite as talented as Gurley but close enough that his other advantages (vision, receiving ability, past production) make up the difference.You're inventing a narrative that isn't there. The reality is that people were blown away with Bell's talent last year, not his production. Again, right out of the gates last year people were WOWing their eyes out watching him run, before the production came along to match. Yet you're content to ignore that and have decided that since he wasn't quick and agile 5 years ago at Michigan State he must not be quick and agile now, just like you must have assumed that since Tom Brady was considered to have an extremely weak arm as a prospect he must have had an extremely weak arm for his entire NFL career.Fat plodder Le'Veon Bell is as dead and gone as noodle armed Tom Brady or slow cutting Antonio Brown. He dropped the weight and got in shape and his burst now gets him through the holes that his elite vision have always seen but that his gut slowed him down too much to get through in time.Stop arguing like this is simply some matter of uber talent vs. average guy in a great situation because the only one you're arguing with about that is yourself.

Well. If you say so.

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So now we view Bell as a "lesser player"?

If Bell and Gurley both score 300 this year, then I guess I will just have to suck it up and be happy I own the #2 dynasty RB who isn't very far behind the #1.

Anyway, dumb argument. Bell is the clear #1 dynasty RB. 99.9% would agree with that, not because of groupthink, but because it's obvious.

Partly because it's groupthink, but more likely tied to recency effects. People look at the most recent outlier data and generalize that the outcome will persist over time, especially in the absence of other confounding variables and competing factors. You are not alone in this simple approach. A lot of folks make this type of error in FF and in real life.

I thought it was moreso that Bell is like 23, looked fantastic and improved a lot from year one to year two, plus is heavily involved on passing downs.

Just curious though, what are the "absence of other confounding variables and competing factors"? I am simply not smart enough to figure these out.

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Recency bias also isn't a factor here. That's a rather lazy cop out on your end. His usage and how he looked are the painfully obvious main factors.

There have been plenty of players who scored really well one year who I did not feel would do well the following year. I look ahead, not behind. If all I did was look at the previous year then all my teams would suck.

It's really not hard to figure out that Bell is a stud RB and has a better chance to continue that than anyone else. People saw this last year when he hadn't even scored a TD yet.

Edited by ghostguy123

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Rotoworld:

An anonymous NFL scout is concerned about Georgia RB Todd Gurley lasting in the league and compared him to Adrian Peterson and Walter Payton as "very violent and aggressive as a runner."

"You start comparing him to Bo (Jackson) and Herschel (Walker) and Adrian (Peterson), that's when you know you're dealing with a special player," said another scout. "Physically, this dude can do everything. He's my favorite player in the draft. He's a football all-day guy." Gurley ran 510 times for 3,285 yards in college. "You start comparing him to Bo (Jackson) and Herschel (Walker) and Adrian (Peterson), that's when you know you're dealing with a special player," said one scout. "Physically, this dude can do everything. He's my favorite player in the draft. He's a football all-day guy." The Bulldog back will reportedly go anywhere from the Jets at No. 6 to the Dolphins at No. 16. "Gurley's different than Marshawn (Lynch)," a veteran scout said. "More explosive than Eddie George. Fred Taylor wasn't as explosive, either. Probably better than Steven Jackson. I don't think he's better than Bo Jackson."

Source: Milwaukee Journal Sentinel

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One thing though, I really don't like bringing Trent Richardson into the conversation. The chances of Gurley sucking like Trich are about 1 in a million.

I think it's valid to bring Richardson into the conversation just for the purpose of having people take a step back and see how highly touted Richardson was then (and for the year before he was drafted). Sometimes people get so caught up in the new and shiny <fill in the blank> that reason flies out the window.

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So now we view Bell as a "lesser player"?

If Bell and Gurley both score 300 this year, then I guess I will just have to suck it up and be happy I own the #2 dynasty RB who isn't very far behind the #1.

Anyway, dumb argument. Bell is the clear #1 dynasty RB. 99.9% would agree with that, not because of groupthink, but because it's obvious.

Bell won't be scoring 300 or near that due to a drug problem. And before you say he has no problem anyone driving a car and smoking weed has a major problem.

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So now we view Bell as a "lesser player"?

If Bell and Gurley both score 300 this year, then I guess I will just have to suck it up and be happy I own the #2 dynasty RB who isn't very far behind the #1.

Anyway, dumb argument. Bell is the clear #1 dynasty RB. 99.9% would agree with that, not because of groupthink, but because it's obvious.

Bell won't be scoring 300 or near that due to a drug problem. And before you say he has no problem anyone driving a car and smoking weed has a major problem.

Going too slow?

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So now we view Bell as a "lesser player"?

If Bell and Gurley both score 300 this year, then I guess I will just have to suck it up and be happy I own the #2 dynasty RB who isn't very far behind the #1.

Anyway, dumb argument. Bell is the clear #1 dynasty RB. 99.9% would agree with that, not because of groupthink, but because it's obvious.

Bell won't be scoring 300 or near that due to a drug problem. And before you say he has no problem anyone driving a car and smoking weed has a major problem.

When they're 21 years old?

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One thing though, I really don't like bringing Trent Richardson into the conversation. The chances of Gurley sucking like Trich are about 1 in a million.

I think it's valid to bring Richardson into the conversation just for the purpose of having people take a step back and see how highly touted Richardson was then (and for the year before he was drafted). Sometimes people get so caught up in the new and shiny <fill in the blank> that reason flies out the window.

I'm well aware of the trappings of new/shiny. I wasn't wrong about TR, i honestly didn't find him terribly remarkable (though had no idea he'd be such an epic fail either), but Gurley hits me on a different level. Haven't been struck this much by a RB since AP and Faulk.

I'm far less concerned about that issue as i am the pattern of some folks to misidentify or disproportionately attribute stats or productivity to how good a player is as opposed to considering situational factors. Bell is a good back and the other mistake is interpreting anything other than exclamation points about greatness as somehow meaning "he sucks." He doesn't suck. He's a good back who benefited from an unusual workload that won't sustain itself. And he's a knucklehead who already got himself in trouble with the league and will miss time because of it. I like his 14 game prospects next year and rank him higher in redraft than Gurley. But dynasty? I'll take Gurley.

Sorry if that offends the Bell guys or the play-the-percentages guys.

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So now we view Bell as a "lesser player"?

If Bell and Gurley both score 300 this year, then I guess I will just have to suck it up and be happy I own the #2 dynasty RB who isn't very far behind the #1.

Anyway, dumb argument. Bell is the clear #1 dynasty RB. 99.9% would agree with that, not because of groupthink, but because it's obvious.

Bell won't be scoring 300 or near that due to a drug problem. And before you say he has no problem anyone driving a car and smoking weed has a major problem.

You mean that same "problem" he just had before he scored well over 300?

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One thing though, I really don't like bringing Trent Richardson into the conversation. The chances of Gurley sucking like Trich are about 1 in a million.

I think it's valid to bring Richardson into the conversation just for the purpose of having people take a step back and see how highly touted Richardson was then (and for the year before he was drafted). Sometimes people get so caught up in the new and shiny <fill in the blank> that reason flies out the window.

This can be applied to vets who fell off the map also. Nicks ring a bell?

But no, richardson has no place in the convo because his problems run deeper than just not being able to hack it.

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As much as I hate the Giants they always draft well and pick a lot of players I would given their position. I see Gurley going at #9 to the G-men. Write it down.

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So now we view Bell as a "lesser player"?

If Bell and Gurley both score 300 this year, then I guess I will just have to suck it up and be happy I own the #2 dynasty RB who isn't very far behind the #1.

Anyway, dumb argument. Bell is the clear #1 dynasty RB. 99.9% would agree with that, not because of groupthink, but because it's obvious.

Bell won't be scoring 300 or near that due to a drug problem. And before you say he has no problem anyone driving a car and smoking weed has a major problem.

You mean that same "problem" he just had before he scored well over 300?

Yeah, it's a funny thing with the likes of Josh Gordon, Justin Blackmon, LeVeon Bell, etc. Hard to predict when in the course of their dynasty career they're going to get caught and then clipped again. They never post on FBGs when they're about to do something stupid, they just do it.

But, no worries with Bell. I'm sure it's just a one-time thing and would never happen again.

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So now we view Bell as a "lesser player"?

If Bell and Gurley both score 300 this year, then I guess I will just have to suck it up and be happy I own the #2 dynasty RB who isn't very far behind the #1.

Anyway, dumb argument. Bell is the clear #1 dynasty RB. 99.9% would agree with that, not because of groupthink, but because it's obvious.

Bell won't be scoring 300 or near that due to a drug problem. And before you say he has no problem anyone driving a car and smoking weed has a major problem.

You mean that same "problem" he just had before he scored well over 300?

Yeah, it's a funny thing with the likes of Josh Gordon, Justin Blackmon, LeVeon Bell, etc. Hard to predict when in the course of their dynasty career they're going to get caught and then clipped again. They never post on FBGs when they're about to do something stupid, they just do it.

But, no worries with Bell. I'm sure it's just a one-time thing and would never happen again.

Well, so far it IS a one time thing, unlike those other guys who did stupid things about 10 times.

I'm sure Gurley wil never obliterate his knee again either

What an insane conversation this is

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So now we view Bell as a "lesser player"?

If Bell and Gurley both score 300 this year, then I guess I will just have to suck it up and be happy I own the #2 dynasty RB who isn't very far behind the #1.

Anyway, dumb argument. Bell is the clear #1 dynasty RB. 99.9% would agree with that, not because of groupthink, but because it's obvious.

Bell won't be scoring 300 or near that due to a drug problem. And before you say he has no problem anyone driving a car and smoking weed has a major problem.

You mean that same "problem" he just had before he scored well over 300?

Yeah, it's a funny thing with the likes of Josh Gordon, Justin Blackmon, LeVeon Bell, etc. Hard to predict when in the course of their dynasty career they're going to get caught and then clipped again. They never post on FBGs when they're about to do something stupid, they just do it.

But, no worries with Bell. I'm sure it's just a one-time thing and would never happen again.

Well, so far it IS a one time thing, unlike those other guys who did stupid things about 10 times.

I'm sure Gurley wil never obliterate his knee again either

What an insane conversation this is

Exaggerate much? An ACL tear is not an "obliteration" of a knee. I think it was Dr. Jene Bramel who noted somewhere that risk of re-injury of ACL in professional athletes is ~2%, which is consistent with what I've seen and heard elsewhere (with higher rates re-injury rates related to non-contact tears versus contact tears).

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Exaggerate much? An ACL tear is not an "obliteration" of a knee. I think it was Dr. Jene Bramel who noted somewhere that risk of re-injury of ACL in professional athletes is ~2%, which is consistent with what I've seen and heard elsewhere (with higher rates re-injury rates related to non-contact tears versus contact tears).

Exaggerate much saying Bell has a drug problem?

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Exaggerate much? An ACL tear is not an "obliteration" of a knee. I think it was Dr. Jene Bramel who noted somewhere that risk of re-injury of ACL in professional athletes is ~2%, which is consistent with what I've seen and heard elsewhere (with higher rates re-injury rates related to non-contact tears versus contact tears).

Exaggerate much saying Bell has a drug problem?

He's suspended for drug use. That seems like a problem. Maybe not J Gordon or Blackmon level of a problem yet, but still a problem.

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Exaggerate much? An ACL tear is not an "obliteration" of a knee. I think it was Dr. Jene Bramel who noted somewhere that risk of re-injury of ACL in professional athletes is ~2%, which is consistent with what I've seen and heard elsewhere (with higher rates re-injury rates related to non-contact tears versus contact tears).

Exaggerate much saying Bell has a drug problem?

He's suspended for drug use. That seems like a problem. Maybe not J Gordon or Blackmon level of a problem yet, but still a problem.

Gurley torn ACL, sounds like an injury problem.

It's still an exaggeration to say he "has a drug problem". If he gets busted again he might.

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Exaggerate much? An ACL tear is not an "obliteration" of a knee. I think it was Dr. Jene Bramel who noted somewhere that risk of re-injury of ACL in professional athletes is ~2%, which is consistent with what I've seen and heard elsewhere (with higher rates re-injury rates related to non-contact tears versus contact tears).

Exaggerate much saying Bell has a drug problem?

He's suspended for drug use. That seems like a problem. Maybe not J Gordon or Blackmon level of a problem yet, but still a problem.

Gurley torn ACL, sounds like an injury problem.

It's still an exaggeration to say he "has a drug problem". If he gets busted again he might.

Its a problem in the sense that the league doesn't allow it.

Honestly, in today's NFL, I worry more about knuckleheads on my dynasty team than I do injuries. Injuries happen. Teams support players with injuries. Guys like Thomas Davis can tear the same knee up three times and then come back and have great years. There is hope for an injured player.

A knucklehead with a problem, however, there is no hope for. Josh Gordon. The price people paid for him. The hope they had for what he would do for their fantasy teams. Guys like him set dynasty teams back 5 years.

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True. But do you think Bell is a "knucklehead"???

No, but half a year ago I wouldn't have thought he was a guy that would get busted the 1st time. It just concerns me because the penalties are steep now. If we have a scenario where Bell gets into trouble again (even if its a Josh Gordon "hey I wasn't doing anything wrong" story), he's on thin ice.

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So now we view Bell as a "lesser player"?

If Bell and Gurley both score 300 this year, then I guess I will just have to suck it up and be happy I own the #2 dynasty RB who isn't very far behind the #1.

Anyway, dumb argument. Bell is the clear #1 dynasty RB. 99.9% would agree with that, not because of groupthink, but because it's obvious.

Bell won't be scoring 300 or near that due to a drug problem. And before you say he has no problem anyone driving a car and smoking weed has a major problem.

You mean that same "problem" he just had before he scored well over 300?

Yeah, it's a funny thing with the likes of Josh Gordon, Justin Blackmon, LeVeon Bell, etc. Hard to predict when in the course of their dynasty career they're going to get caught and then clipped again. They never post on FBGs when they're about to do something stupid, they just do it.

But, no worries with Bell. I'm sure it's just a one-time thing and would never happen again.

Well, so far it IS a one time thing, unlike those other guys who did stupid things about 10 times.

I'm sure Gurley wil never obliterate his knee again either

What an insane conversation this is

Exaggerate much? An ACL tear is not an "obliteration" of a knee. I think it was Dr. Jene Bramel who noted somewhere that risk of re-injury of ACL in professional athletes is ~2%, which is consistent with what I've seen and heard elsewhere (with higher rates re-injury rates related to non-contact tears versus contact tears).

What percentage of players that get caught for marijuana one time end up doing it enough to get suspended for a year or more?

Given that only a handful of players have ever gotten the year long suspension, I'm guessing it's not much worse than 2%.

Edited by FreeBaGeL

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True. But do you think Bell is a "knucklehead"???

No, but half a year ago I wouldn't have thought he was a guy that would get busted the 1st time. It just concerns me because the penalties are steep now. If we have a scenario where Bell gets into trouble again (even if its a Josh Gordon "hey I wasn't doing anything wrong" story), he's on thin ice.

Is he though? And I was under the impression the penalties were actually getting softer than they had been.

Besides, he was busted for DUi right? So he is being suspended for the conduct policy, not the substance abuse policy.

He admitted he smoke weed but never had a positive test. Correct me if I am wrong on that.

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True. But do you think Bell is a "knucklehead"???

No, but half a year ago I wouldn't have thought he was a guy that would get busted the 1st time. It just concerns me because the penalties are steep now. If we have a scenario where Bell gets into trouble again (even if its a Josh Gordon "hey I wasn't doing anything wrong" story), he's on thin ice.

Is he though? And I was under the impression the penalties were actually getting softer than they had been.

Besides, he was busted for DUi right? So he is being suspended for the conduct policy, not the substance abuse policy.

He admitted he smoke weed but never had a positive test. Correct me if I am wrong on that.

That's what I'm worried about. Conduct is a massive openly interpretable umbrella. He has a strike against him now and now anything from a domestic dispute at a McDonald's to "oops I shouldn't have forgotten a firearm in my luggage" to a poor statement or slur that gets a lot of youtube hits can put him into Greg Hardy's neighborhood.

I admit, I don't know how the league will interpret or define and levy their decisions but its seems to me that, now more than ever, given the recent bad egg on their face, if a guy does something embarrassing, it doesn't necessarily have to be sinister and he might still get a nice cool-off period. I can live with it with a WR3 or even a great LB, but when I thin of the price I pay for a Dez, a Andrew Luck, and Bell, etc, I need those guys to be guys that are squeaky clean and/or get so much love from the league that they get the special treatment.

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Exaggerate much? An ACL tear is not an "obliteration" of a knee. I think it was Dr. Jene Bramel who noted somewhere that risk of re-injury of ACL in professional athletes is ~2%, which is consistent with what I've seen and heard elsewhere (with higher rates re-injury rates related to non-contact tears versus contact tears).

Exaggerate much saying Bell has a drug problem?

He's suspended for drug use. That seems like a problem. Maybe not J Gordon or Blackmon level of a problem yet, but still a problem.

Gurley torn ACL, sounds like an injury problem.

It's still an exaggeration to say he "has a drug problem". If he gets busted again he might.

No it isn't an exaggeration. He was not only stupid enough to do an illegal drug but he took it a step further and put people at risk by getting behind a wheel.

I'm sure in your world it takes freebasing at an elementary school before one is dubbed with a problem but in mine doing illegal drugs and driving while on them shows a problem. You know he suspended 3 games, right? Maybe when it's a year we can admit it.

Further I'm sure this is the first time he's ever done this, he just happen to get caught his first time...lol

He's dumbed enough to do that, he's dumb enough to do it again. Given his character and his awful year one Ypc, I'd prefer Gurley by a wide margin. I really believe this time next year it will be a joke to compare these two.

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I can live with it with a WR3 or even a great LB, but when I thin of the price I pay for a Dez, a Andrew Luck, and Bell, etc, I need those guys to be guys that are squeaky clean and/or get so much love from the league that they get the special treatment.

Dez is an....interesting example of squeaky clean.

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Given his character and his awful year one Ypc, I'd prefer Gurley by a wide margin. I really believe this time next year it will be a joke to compare these two.

Ouch, I wish I cared enough to save this somewhere, but I try not to save crazy things.

I also don't let NFL punishments determine whether or not someone has a drug problem because, well, that would just be stupid.

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Gurley to Cleveland? Ouch.

As a Gurley owner, I'd love this.

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Gurley to Cleveland? Ouch.

As a Gurley owner, I'd love this.

Really?

I maneuvered the heck out of my teams to get 1.01 in my two main leagues and I'd be rather disappointed if I did all that to get him in Cleveland. It's not horrible, but it's definitely one of the worser of his possible destinations. What teams would realistically take him that are worse? Jets/Cardinals maybe? Those are probably about the same as Cleveland, but I think all the other realistic possibilities are much better.

Plus he'd have to wear that ugly new uniform in Cleveland.

Edited by FreeBaGeL

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Gurley to Cleveland? Ouch.

As a Gurley owner, I'd love this.

Really?

I maneuvered the heck out of my teams to get 1.01 in my two main leagues and I'd be rather disappointed if I did all that to get him in Cleveland. It's not horrible, but it's definitely one of the worser of his possible destinations. What teams would realistically take him that are worse? Jets/Cardinals maybe? Those are probably about the same as Cleveland, but I think all the other realistic possibilities are much better.

Plus he'd have to wear that ugly new uniform in Cleveland.

Clev has a great Oline for running the ball and Gurley would easily move to the lead role and get touches IMO. Even if Clev sucks, he posts great numbers there.

I really like that spot.

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Gurley to Cleveland? Ouch.

As a Gurley owner, I'd love this.

Really?

I maneuvered the heck out of my teams to get 1.01 in my two main leagues and I'd be rather disappointed if I did all that to get him in Cleveland. It's not horrible, but it's definitely one of the worser of his possible destinations. What teams would realistically take him that are worse? Jets/Cardinals maybe? Those are probably about the same as Cleveland, but I think all the other realistic possibilities are much better.

Plus he'd have to wear that ugly new uniform in Cleveland.

Clev has a great Oline for running the ball and Gurley would easily move to the lead role and get touches IMO. Even if Clev sucks, he posts great numbers there.

I really like that spot.

Where would you rank them against his potential landing spots?

Atlanta, NYJ, NYG, Cleveland, San Diego, Baltimore, Dallas, Miami, Detroit.

I mean, I guess it would be better than some random team grabbing him that hasn't been discussed, but amongst those that have how many would you rank below Cleveland? I would think Cleveland would be 3rd to last on that list (ahead of NYJ/Arizona) at best.

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I own Crowell

Well owning an average or even a slightly above average RB always comes with the threat of that guy being replaced by a more talented back that is brought in. Zach Stacy, just last year, was a good example of this.

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Gurley to Cleveland? Ouch.

As a Gurley owner, I'd love this.

Agreed. Gurley running behind one of the better OL's in the league with as much opportunity as a rookie could ask for? Yes, please!

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I can live with it with a WR3 or even a great LB, but when I thin of the price I pay for a Dez, a Andrew Luck, and Bell, etc, I need those guys to be guys that are squeaky clean and/or get so much love from the league that they get the special treatment.

Dez is an....interesting example of squeaky clean.

Why? You got some video footage those cops in Texas couldn't find? LOL.

I get it. Actually noticed it when I typed it but he has not been suspended for anything or had any problems with the league with drugs and I was just rattling off top players I was thinking of.

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I own Crowell

Well owning an average or even a slightly above average RB always comes with the threat of that guy being replaced by a more talented back that is brought in. Zach Stacy, just last year, was a good example of this.

Does the coaching staff name a new starter every quarter like he did last year? That is the real concern.

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I own Crowell

Well owning an average or even a slightly above average RB always comes with the threat of that guy being replaced by a more talented back that is brought in. Zach Stacy, just last year, was a good example of this.

Does the coaching staff name a new starter every quarter like he did last year? That is the real concern.
Not if he has a good RB

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I own Crowell

Well owning an average or even a slightly above average RB always comes with the threat of that guy being replaced by a more talented back that is brought in. Zach Stacy, just last year, was a good example of this.

Does the coaching staff name a new starter every quarter like he did last year? That is the real concern.

If they draft Gurley, no.

When you have a bunch of average RBs you ride the "hot hand" - when you have a stud, you ride him.

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I own Crowell

Well owning an average or even a slightly above average RB always comes with the threat of that guy being replaced by a more talented back that is brought in. Zach Stacy, just last year, was a good example of this.

Does the coaching staff name a new starter every quarter like he did last year? That is the real concern.

If they draft Gurley, no.

When you have a bunch of average RBs you ride the "hot hand" - when you have a stud, you ride him.

I totally agree with this thinking but with Cleveland you just never know.

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True. But do you think Bell is a "knucklehead"???

No, but half a year ago I wouldn't have thought he was a guy that would get busted the 1st time. It just concerns me because the penalties are steep now. If we have a scenario where Bell gets into trouble again (even if its a Josh Gordon "hey I wasn't doing anything wrong" story), he's on thin ice.

Is he though? And I was under the impression the penalties were actually getting softer than they had been.

Besides, he was busted for DUi right? So he is being suspended for the conduct policy, not the substance abuse policy.

He admitted he smoke weed but never had a positive test. Correct me if I am wrong on that.

He failed a test and blamed it on second hand marijuana smoke. I think he failed a test in college too. Someone on this board had a funny story about waiting in line at this store with about 5 other people... guy up at the counter is buying every kind of blunt wrap they have and checking them out. Eventually gets the ones he wants, walks out of the store into Josh Gordon's camouflage painted Porsche:

https://www.google.com/search?q=josh+gordon+porsche&espv=2&biw=1280&bih=939&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=XKlCVb-gFsG0oQSWwYDYDg&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAg

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