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[Dynasty] Todd Gurley

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49 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

Stop, just stop.  That is absolutely asinine.  And I suppose AP isn’t one of the best backs of our generation because he had bad years in Arizona and N.O.   

The only thing your numbers prove is exactly how awful Jeff Fisher was and how ineffective he was as a coach that year.  

:lmao: you seriously compared a guy in his second season to one in his 11th.  That is quite possibly the worst post ever on this forum.

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1 minute ago, tjnc09 said:

:lmao: you seriously compared a guy in his second season to one in his 11th.  That is quite possibly the worst post ever on this forum.

With the exception of your post here of course.  

My bad for engaging in discussion with what I thought was a person not a troll.  Have a good day. 

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12 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

With the exception of your post here of course.  

My bad for engaging in discussion with what I thought was a person not a troll.  Have a good day. 

Hilarious when people call me a troll because I'm smarter than them.  Look at the production Pittsburgh gets instead of Bell.  RBs are overrated.  Everyone knows that.  

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32 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

With the exception of your post here of course.  

My bad for engaging in discussion with what I thought was a person not a troll.  Have a good day. 

He's on my ignore list from his PSF postings IIR?

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When Gurley is one of the worst RBs in the league, it's because the coaching staff and system stinks.

When he is one of the "best" RBs in the league, it has nothing to do with the coaching staff or system even though his backups perform as well as he does.

When Adrian Peterson ran for twice as many yards in his second season as Gurley, Rams fans ignore that and bring up his production in his 11th season

:lmao: shark pool seriously is a fade these days 

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8 minutes ago, tjnc09 said:

When Gurley is one of the worst RBs in the league, it's because the coaching staff and system stinks.

When he is one of the "best" RBs in the league, it has nothing to do with the coaching staff or system even though his backups perform as well as he does.

When Adrian Peterson ran for twice as many yards in his second season as Gurley, Rams fans ignore that and bring up his production in his 11th season

:lmao: shark pool seriously is a fade these days 

Missed my point completely smart guy.  

Please heed your own advise and fade the shark pool. 

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For those of us that play championships in week 17

The Rams must win to keep the #2 seed. Do the Rams will play him in week 17 or did CJ Anderson look too good against the Cards and will allow the Rams to continue to rest Gurley?

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13 minutes ago, Yenrub said:

For those of us that play championships in week 17

The Rams must win to keep the #2 seed. Do the Rams will play him in week 17 or did CJ Anderson look too good against the Cards and will allow the Rams to continue to rest Gurley?

I think they rest him at this point. 

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1 minute ago, Sebowski said:

I think they rest him at this point. 

This.

If CJ fell flat on his face I could see them maybe playing him. Not now.

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https://www.actionnetwork.com/nfl/nfl-player-spread-betting-values-wide-receivers-running-backs?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=si

Cooley won’t even go that far, saying, “Running backs these days are largely interchangeable so they don’t have any value.”

We literally saw this yesterday when Todd Gurley couldn’t play and the Rams went from -14 to -14

:lmao: the difference between the "best" running back in the league and some guy who has been cut multiple times this year is worth exactly 0 points in the eyes of people who work in a multi-billion dollar sports betting industry.  I love when fans get all upset because they have no clue what they are talking about.

Edited by tjnc09

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17 hours ago, tombonneau said:

Gurley is the best RB in the NFL.

I don't know about best RB in the league. In fact I don't believe it at all. When Kupp was healthy they were the best offense in the league with one of the best offensive lines - having Mr. Guru himself Sean McVay helps too. I think Gurley's red zone usage compared to other backs not named Kamara is off the charts too.

I hate to be that 'tape' guy, but when I watch Gurley, he's a good RB that can do everything pretty well but nothing jumps out at me. This well-posted stat was pretty interesting: "105 of CJ Anderson's 167 rushing yards came after contact, more than Todd Gurley has ever gained in a game and the most by a Rams rusher in the last 10 seasons."

RB's who I think are better:

Chubb, Barkley, Kamara, Joe Mixon, Kerryon Johnson

 

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4 hours ago, pbandy1 said:

I don't know about best RB in the league. In fact I don't believe it at all. When Kupp was healthy they were the best offense in the league with one of the best offensive lines - having Mr. Guru himself Sean McVay helps too. I think Gurley's red zone usage compared to other backs not named Kamara is off the charts too.

I hate to be that 'tape' guy, but when I watch Gurley, he's a good RB that can do everything pretty well but nothing jumps out at me. This well-posted stat was pretty interesting: "105 of CJ Anderson's 167 rushing yards came after contact, more than Todd Gurley has ever gained in a game and the most by a Rams rusher in the last 10 seasons."

RB's who I think are better:

Chubb, Barkley, Kamara, Joe Mixon, Kerryon Johnson

 

Whoa

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5 hours ago, pbandy1 said:

I don't know about best RB in the league. In fact I don't believe it at all. When Kupp was healthy they were the best offense in the league with one of the best offensive lines - having Mr. Guru himself Sean McVay helps too. I think Gurley's red zone usage compared to other backs not named Kamara is off the charts too.

I hate to be that 'tape' guy, but when I watch Gurley, he's a good RB that can do everything pretty well but nothing jumps out at me. This well-posted stat was pretty interesting: "105 of CJ Anderson's 167 rushing yards came after contact, more than Todd Gurley has ever gained in a game and the most by a Rams rusher in the last 10 seasons."

RB's who I think are better:

Chubb, Barkley, Kamara, Joe Mixon, Kerryon Johnson

 

Can you share some with me?

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5 hours ago, pbandy1 said:

I don't know about best RB in the league. In fact I don't believe it at all. When Kupp was healthy they were the best offense in the league with one of the best offensive lines - having Mr. Guru himself Sean McVay helps too. I think Gurley's red zone usage compared to other backs not named Kamara is off the charts too.

I hate to be that 'tape' guy, but when I watch Gurley, he's a good RB that can do everything pretty well but nothing jumps out at me. This well-posted stat was pretty interesting: "105 of CJ Anderson's 167 rushing yards came after contact, more than Todd Gurley has ever gained in a game and the most by a Rams rusher in the last 10 seasons."

RB's who I think are better:

Chubb, Barkley, Kamara, Joe Mixon, Kerryon Johnson

Granted best is always subjective but he’s elite without question.  The only back in the league that compares (and might be better) is Barkley.  TG3 is so smooth and makes it look easy so it’s deceptive.  And as for the stats posted about C.J. last night I refer you to C.J.’s reply on Twitter 

https://mobile.twitter.com/cjandersonb22/status/1077049071536300032

Edited by dkp993
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Lots of salty non-Gurley owners in here trying to make themselves feel better for not making the playoffs this year. Merry Christmas Todd, thanks for taking me to a dynasty title this year. 

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16 hours ago, pbandy1 said:

I don't know about best RB in the league. In fact I don't believe it at all. When Kupp was healthy they were the best offense in the league with one of the best offensive lines - having Mr. Guru himself Sean McVay helps too. I think Gurley's red zone usage compared to other backs not named Kamara is off the charts too.

I hate to be that 'tape' guy, but when I watch Gurley, he's a good RB that can do everything pretty well but nothing jumps out at me. This well-posted stat was pretty interesting: "105 of CJ Anderson's 167 rushing yards came after contact, more than Todd Gurley has ever gained in a game and the most by a Rams rusher in the last 10 seasons."

RB's who I think are better:

Chubb, Barkley, Kamara, Joe Mixon, Kerryon Johnson

 

Stopped reading at "I don't know"

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10 hours ago, Andrew74 said:

Lots of salty non-Gurley owners in here trying to make themselves feel better for not making the playoffs this year. Merry Christmas Todd, thanks for taking me to a dynasty title this year. 

:lmao: Gurley had his worst game in week 14 and was a late scratch in week 16.  Sounds like you have had a little too much to drink this holiday

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11 hours ago, Andrew74 said:

Lots of salty non-Gurley owners in here trying to make themselves feel better for not making the playoffs this year. Merry Christmas Todd, thanks for taking me to a dynasty title this year. 

He got me a bye week. I would have got smoked week 14. Instead I crushed everyone weeks 15 and 16 en route to my first dynasty title in a 14yr league. Feels so good. 

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30 minutes ago, Sebowski said:

He got me a bye week. I would have got smoked week 14. Instead I crushed everyone weeks 15 and 16 en route to my first dynasty title in a 14yr league. Feels so good. 

2 down weeks and somehow people forget he was the league point leader most of the year and lead many teams to the bye.  

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1 hour ago, tjnc09 said:

:lmao: Gurley had his worst game in week 14 and was a late scratch in week 16.  Sounds like you have had a little too much to drink this holiday

I wasn’t playing week 14 cause Gurley got me a bye.  He won me week 15.  Fortunately I had a strong enough team to weather his absence. 

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3 hours ago, Andrew74 said:

I wasn’t playing week 14 cause Gurley got me a bye.  He won me week 15.  Fortunately I had a strong enough team to weather his absence. 

the logic in here by Gurley fanboys is some of the worst I have ever seen.  Gurley non-owners are mad but then you admit you won your championship without him :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Guaranteed CJ Anderson won me more $ in week 16 than you have won in your fantasy career.

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Sorry tjnc09

You're the first person I've ever had to formally ignore. You make no effort at discussion but just want to stick to your shtick, abuse anyone who responds and basically just aggrandize yourself with claims you have no idea as to their truthfulness. If you would make some effort, others might take you seriously. I'll never know.

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5 hours ago, Catbird said:

Sorry tjnc09

You're the first person I've ever had to formally ignore. You make no effort at discussion but just want to stick to your shtick, abuse anyone who responds and basically just aggrandize yourself with claims you have no idea as to their truthfulness. If you would make some effort, others might take you seriously. I'll never know.

Yeah I got trolled. 

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On 12/24/2018 at 1:09 PM, tjnc09 said:

When Gurley is one of the worst RBs in the league, it's because the coaching staff and system stinks.

When he is one of the "best" RBs in the league, it has nothing to do with the coaching staff or system even though his backups perform as well as he does.

When Adrian Peterson ran for twice as many yards in his second season as Gurley, Rams fans ignore that and bring up his production in his 11th season

:lmao: shark pool seriously is a fade these days 

A few things.

Stop trolling. If you don't think you're trolling, then find another board. Because you are.

Be way cooler if you stay. 

If you stay, keep it 100% on football and not taking shots at other posters here.

Thanks. 

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On 12/24/2018 at 10:55 AM, tjnc09 said:

So, the best RB in the league had 800 some yards, 3.2ypc in 2016?   He's "good" because of McVay's system, nothing more.  

He's good because of the o-line nothing more.  When he had a bad o-line he looked bad.  It's not Mcvay's system it's the o-line.  I said this when he was drafted he would only be as good as his line.

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12 minutes ago, Shawnky said:

Yes...... really.  You obviously have your opinion....... that's exactly what it is.....an opinion.  I stand by my statement.  

 

That's cool. The rest of the world stopped using "gay" as a synonym for stupid or bad or whatever in 2005. Welcome to 2018. 

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27 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

That's cool. The rest of the world stopped using "gay" as a synonym for stupid or bad or whatever in 2005. Welcome to 2018. 

Nah.  Considering the subject matter, it's very fitting.  

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28 minutes ago, bucksoh said:

He's good because of the o-line nothing more.  When he had a bad o-line he looked bad.  It's not Mcvay's system it's the o-line.  I said this when he was drafted he would only be as good as his line.

https://theramswire.usatoday.com/2018/10/10/nfl-los-angeles-rams-todd-gurley-sean-mcvay-stats/

It has a lot to do with McVay's system.  11 personnel spreads the field out and Gurley benefits by facing fewer stacked boxes.  Per Next Gen Stats, he concluded week 16 with second lowest % against stacked boxes in 2018 behind Tarik Cohen among qualified RBs

Arizona stacked the box against him by far the highest % this season in week 2 at 52.6% and not surprisingly Gurley had his worst running game of the year averaging only 2.2 ypc.  That's why I asked why people assume he would perform better than Anderson but nobody around here is interested in that stuff anymore.

Take Gurley out of this system and OL and he's really the guy everyone saw in 2016.

 

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53 minutes ago, dkp993 said:

It’s straight out of the trolling 101 manual, rule 3, right after the rule about bragging about how much money you have (which he did a few posts later).  It’s all classic stuff.  

Why are you still talking about me?  I guess keeping the Shark Pool 100% football only applies some of the time.

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17 hours ago, tjnc09 said:

https://theramswire.usatoday.com/2018/10/10/nfl-los-angeles-rams-todd-gurley-sean-mcvay-stats/

It has a lot to do with McVay's system.  11 personnel spreads the field out and Gurley benefits by facing fewer stacked boxes.  Per Next Gen Stats, he concluded week 16 with second lowest % against stacked boxes in 2018 behind Tarik Cohen among qualified RBs

Arizona stacked the box against him by far the highest % this season in week 2 at 52.6% and not surprisingly Gurley had his worst running game of the year averaging only 2.2 ypc.  That's why I asked why people assume he would perform better than Anderson but nobody around here is interested in that stuff anymore.

Take Gurley out of this system and OL and he's really the guy everyone saw in 2016.

 

So much for the bolded theory above...

From Rotoworld.....

Todd Gurley (knee) remained sidelined on Thursday.

Speaking Thursday, coach Sean McVay claimed Gurley could play against the 49ers without practicing, but we would consider that extremely unlikely. The Rams could still lose the No. 2 seed with an upset loss, but Gurley's playoff health figures to take precedence over anything else. Interestingly, McVay said Gurley had a similar issue following Week 1. He struggled in Week 2. C.J. Anderson would be a mouthwatering DFS play in Gurley's absence. Dec 27 - 4:22 PM

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14 hours ago, dkp993 said:

Despite the pain, Gurley felt in the aftermath of the opener, he said that his knee felt better two days later.

 

Myles Simmons‏Verified account @MylesASimmons

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RB Todd Gurley, by the way, was back as a full participant in practice on Thursday.

6:00 PM - 15 Sep 2016

 

The Rams were so concerned about that injury they allowed him to be a full participant in practice before the game. :mellow:

Are you going to try to debate the other point in that post that Gurley has simply been a system back for multiple years or ignore it because there is nothing to refute?  

Edited by tjnc09

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https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/todd-gurley-is-in-the-right-system-at-the-right-time/

"As a consequence, Gurley has faced more six-man fronts on his carries than any other running back in football since McVay took over as head coach of the Rams. It has paid serious dividends. So far this season, Gurley is crushing it against those fronts, averaging 5.5 yards per carry. But against a neutral seven-man front, he’s been below league average at just 3.7 yards per attempt."

"Gurley is basically the same back he has always been since he came into the league. If you use broken and missed tackles as a proxy for talent,3 you can see that Gurley makes defenders miss when running against six-man fronts far less than expected."

"So Gurley is the beneficiary, not the proximate cause, of the Rams’ offensive resurgence under McVay."

Below league average.

Less than expected.

Beneficiary of McVay.

He's just another overpaid, replaceable RB.

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On 12/28/2018 at 12:53 PM, tjnc09 said:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/todd-gurley-is-in-the-right-system-at-the-right-time/

"As a consequence, Gurley has faced more six-man fronts on his carries than any other running back in football since McVay took over as head coach of the Rams. It has paid serious dividends. So far this season, Gurley is crushing it against those fronts, averaging 5.5 yards per carry. But against a neutral seven-man front, he’s been below league average at just 3.7 yards per attempt."

"Gurley is basically the same back he has always been since he came into the league. If you use broken and missed tackles as a proxy for talent,3 you can see that Gurley makes defenders miss when running against six-man fronts far less than expected."

"So Gurley is the beneficiary, not the proximate cause, of the Rams’ offensive resurgence under McVay."

Below league average.

Less than expected.

Beneficiary of McVay.

He's just another overpaid, replaceable RB.

Interesting. 

As a Gurley owner this year, I was wowed more by his production than how he actually looked.  Don't get me wrong, he looked really good, but not "best RB in the league" good. In other words, he didn't look like a RB that if you put him on the Giants, would produce like Barkley has, for example. 

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On 12/28/2018 at 1:53 PM, tjnc09 said:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/todd-gurley-is-in-the-right-system-at-the-right-time/

"As a consequence, Gurley has faced more six-man fronts on his carries than any other running back in football since McVay took over as head coach of the Rams. It has paid serious dividends. So far this season, Gurley is crushing it against those fronts, averaging 5.5 yards per carry. But against a neutral seven-man front, he’s been below league average at just 3.7 yards per attempt."

That article was published on 10/19/18. For a more current picture, from Player Profiler:

  • 2018:
    • Stacked front (8+ defenders in box) carry rate: 14.8% (#44 in league), 3.4 ypc
    • Base front (7 defenders in box) carry rate: 40.2% (#33 in league), 4.3 ypc
    • Light front (6 or fewer defenders in box) carry rate: 44.9% (#20 in league), 5.8 ypc
  • 2017:
    • Stacked front (8+ defenders in box) carry rate: 16.5% (#52 in league), 2.8 ypc (#41 in league)
    • Base front (7 defenders in box) carry rate: 38.7% (#23 in league), 4.3 ypc (#23 in league)
    • Light front (6 or fewer defenders in box) carry rate: 44.8% (#14 in league), 5.7 ypc (#8 in league)

He has absolutely benefited from running against light fronts at 5.7-5.8 ypc on about 45% of his carries. No doubt that is a benefit of playing in McVay's offense. But with nearly 40% of his carries against base/neutral fronts, he has consistently averaged 4.3 ypc, much better than the small sample size used in the article.

The truth probably lies in the middle ground between @tjnc09's ultra-negative opinion of Gurley's ability and the opinions of the pro-Gurley posters in this thread. I do think it is fair to assume that if Gurley played in most other offenses, his performance would suffer, although I expect he would still be a top 10 caliber RB.

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On ‎12‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 8:12 AM, dkp993 said:

Stop, just stop.  That is absolutely asinine.  And I suppose AP isn’t one of the best backs of our generation because he had bad years in Arizona and N.O.   

The only thing your numbers prove is exactly how awful Jeff Fisher was and how ineffective he was as a coach that year.  

CJ Anderson, a RB who has basically been unemployed all year, accumulated over 300 yards of offense in only two games.

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12 hours ago, Just Win Baby said:

 I do think it is fair to assume that if Gurley played in most other offenses, his performance would suffer, although I expect he would still be a top 10 caliber RB.

Except in 2016 when he was one of the worst RBs ever for 300+ touches.  

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7 hours ago, tjnc09 said:

Except in 2016 when he was one of the worst RBs ever for 300+ touches.  

So do you view David Johnson the same as Gurley?

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10 hours ago, tjnc09 said:

Except in 2016 when he was one of the worst RBs ever for 300+ touches.  

Your argument is undermined by his rookie season, which you conveniently ignore.

In 12 starts, he had 223/1097/10 rushing (4.9 ypc) and 20/183/0 receiving (9.2 ypr). That scales to 297/1463/13 rushing and 27/244/0 receiving over 16 games. In terms of fantasy performance, he was RB #3 in weeks 4-16, the weeks he started.

And guess what? That wasn't in McVay's offense.

Again, the truth lies in the middle between your ultra-negative take and the takes of the pro-Gurley posters.

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3 hours ago, Andrew74 said:

So do you view David Johnson the same as Gurley?

Of course.  There were a lot of red flags going into 2018.

2016 PFF projected their OL #9; 2018 PFF projected their OL #27

Projected Vegas win total down from 9.5 in 2016 to 5.5 in 2018.  More wins, more positive game scripts

Massive drop off in QB and defense

Mike McCoy was fired from the Chargers in 2016, fired midseason from the Broncos in 2017, and not surprisingly fired midseason in 2018.  DJ's route charts in 2018 compared to 2016 were pathetic.

Put David Johnson in McVay's offense and everyone would talk about how he is the best RB in the league.

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32 minutes ago, Just Win Baby said:

Your argument is undermined by his rookie season, which you conveniently ignore.

In 12 starts, he had 223/1097/10 rushing (4.9 ypc) and 20/183/0 receiving (9.2 ypr). That scales to 297/1463/13 rushing and 27/244/0 receiving over 16 games. In terms of fantasy performance, he was RB #3 in weeks 4-16, the weeks he started.

And guess what? That wasn't in McVay's offense.

Again, the truth lies in the middle between your ultra-negative take and the takes of the pro-Gurley posters.

I'm aware of his rookie season.  The proclaimed "best" RB in the league would never have a season that bad imo. 

Also speculating he would be "top 10" in any other offense seems like a stretch when in two non-McVay season's he was "top 10" and "complete garbage".  His success/failure depends on a number of other things independent of Gurley's personal capabilities.  He's a top 10 guy in Pittsburgh, probably not a top 10 guy in Buffalo.  Any RB in McVay's system is top 10, easy.

 

 

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Quote

Coach Sean McVay said he would be "very, very surprised" if Todd Gurley (knee) isn't able to return for the playoffs.

The Rams earned a first-round bye, giving Gurley even more time to get ready for the Week 19 Divisional Round matchup. C.J. Anderson filled in more than admirably during Gurley's two-game absence, but this is mostly a one-back offense, and Gurley should return to his normal workload.

Source: Profootballtalk on NBC Sports 

Dec 31 - 6:20 PM

 

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13 hours ago, tjnc09 said:

I'm aware of his rookie season.  The proclaimed "best" RB in the league would never have a season that bad imo. 

Also speculating he would be "top 10" in any other offense seems like a stretch when in two non-McVay season's he was "top 10" and "complete garbage".  His success/failure depends on a number of other things independent of Gurley's personal capabilities.  He's a top 10 guy in Pittsburgh, probably not a top 10 guy in Buffalo.  Any RB in McVay's system is top 10, easy.

 

 

This is just a terrible take on Gurley. Awful logic

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8 hours ago, flapgreen said:

This is just a terrible take on Gurley. Awful logic

Prove to me why my logic is awful.  

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On 12/31/2018 at 12:38 PM, tjnc09 said:

I'm aware of his rookie season.  The proclaimed "best" RB in the league would never have a season that bad imo. 

Also speculating he would be "top 10" in any other offense seems like a stretch when in two non-McVay season's he was "top 10" and "complete garbage".  His success/failure depends on a number of other things independent of Gurley's personal capabilities.  He's a top 10 guy in Pittsburgh, probably not a top 10 guy in Buffalo.  Any RB in McVay's system is top 10, easy.

In the games he started as a rookie, his performance was top 3, quite a bit better than top 10.

There is really no need to continue discussing this with you. You clearly have your mind made up. So I will agree to disagree with you and move on. 

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