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[Dynasty] Todd Gurley

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What evidence do you have that supports ACL injuries that happened 10 years ago are irrelevant? Even five years ago you say?? SayWhat? How do you define what time frame is relevant here?

I hope you stayed at a Holiday Inn at least making such claims that I doubt any doctor would agree with or support.

Damn, you're sure twisting my post. I never stated that ACL injuries from 10 years ago are irrelevant. Or five years ago.

I said, "I don't think many people here have zero concerns regarding an ACL recovery. That said, they're arguing that studies concluded 15 years ago and examples of player recoveries from that timeframe are largely irrelevant. The surgery and recovery are night and day different today. No risk? Absolutely not. Magnitudes less? Absolutely."

I'll stand by that comment 100%. Your Holiday Inn comment was lame, but if you don't think doctors would agree with my above comment then you're delusional about the progression of ACL surgeries/recoveries that have occurred between 2000 and 2015.

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Im choking on all the dust from that old ### study. Icky Woods? Seriously? Whats next? The world is flat?

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What evidence do you have that supports ACL injuries that happened 10 years ago are irrelevant? Even five years ago you say?? SayWhat? How do you define what time frame is relevant here?

I hope you stayed at a Holiday Inn at least making such claims that I doubt any doctor would agree with or support.

Damn, you're sure twisting my post. I never stated that ACL injuries from 10 years ago are irrelevant. Or five years ago.

I said, "I don't think many people here have zero concerns regarding an ACL recovery. That said, they're arguing that studies concluded 15 years ago and examples of player recoveries from that timeframe are largely irrelevant. The surgery and recovery are night and day different today. No risk? Absolutely not. Magnitudes less? Absolutely."

I'll stand by that comment 100%. Your Holiday Inn comment was lame, but if you don't think doctors would agree with my above comment then you're delusional about the progression of ACL surgeries/recoveries that have occurred between 2000 and 2015.

When players such as AP/Welker in their late 20's are recovering from ACL's in 6 - 9 months and producing at or near their level, i'd say some things have changed.

Nobody is saying he will be 100% back....but nobody knows the future anyway. Le'Veon Bell could get stopped for pot again, Lynch could retire after signing his new deal...but that's about where I put the odds of Gurley not recovering from a clean, only ACL tear.

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Citing Peterson and Welkers recovery times while ignoring all the other players who didn't recover that quickly seems like a pretty selective way of evaluating the risk to me. But hey as long as it was recent is all that matters right?

Only a ACL tear. Yep no big deal. :whistle:

I found a doctor who agrees with you guys. He doesn't offer much evidence for his position either, but oh well.

FWIW I hope Gurley fully recovers without any hiccups and people don't get burned by drafting him so high. I would be happy to be wrong to worry about it and hope he has an amazing career rewarding such high investment.

If he doesn't at least you cannot say you didn't see it coming.

If going by a pure talent evaluation without factoring in the risks I can totally understand taking him first overall in rookie drafts. I consider durability an important trait to consider, especially for RB who have such short volatile careers anyways.

Personally I don't think the rewards outweigh the risks based on the information available. For me it all comes down to where he gets drafted and how high. If he drops in the draft I have already factored that risk into my evaluation.

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I had ACL reconstruction in 1994 and again in 2010. Basically no difference in the surgery or the rehab, 16 years apart. HTH.

No, I'm not a professional athlete.

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I had ACL reconstruction in 1994 and again in 2010. Basically no difference in the surgery or the rehab, 16 years apart. HTH.

No, I'm not a professional athlete.

How do you know whether or not the surgeries were different or similar? You didn't perform either surgery.

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I had ACL reconstruction in 1994 and again in 2010. Basically no difference in the surgery or the rehab, 16 years apart. HTH.

No, I'm not a professional athlete.

How do you know whether or not the surgeries were different or similar? You didn't perform either surgery.

Because I prefer not to let people cut on me without knowing what they are going to do first. Granted, I think the guy in 1994 was a little ahead of his time (two different surgeons).

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I had ACL reconstruction in 1994 and again in 2010. Basically no difference in the surgery or the rehab, 16 years apart. HTH.

No, I'm not a professional athlete.

How do you know whether or not the surgeries were different or similar? You didn't perform either surgery.

Because I prefer not to let people cut on me without knowing what they are going to do first. Granted, I think the guy in 1994 was a little ahead of his time (two different surgeons).

As I understand it the progression has been more related to rehab advancements and not necessarily the actual surgery. Surgically the major advancement was early 90s. Granted, the surgery has gotten better then to now. Rehab is where more drastic improvement has occurred, though.

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I had ACL reconstruction in 1994 and again in 2010. Basically no difference in the surgery or the rehab, 16 years apart. HTH.

No, I'm not a professional athlete.

How do you know whether or not the surgeries were different or similar? You didn't perform either surgery.

Because I prefer not to let people cut on me without knowing what they are going to do first. Granted, I think the guy in 1994 was a little ahead of his time (two different surgeons).

As I understand it the progression has been more related to rehab advancements and not necessarily the actual surgery. Surgically the major advancement was early 90s. Granted, the surgery has gotten better then to now. Rehab is where more drastic improvement has occurred, though.

You have to wonder how much is better pills. Guess we'll see what happens if they start doing real drug testing.

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I had ACL reconstruction in 1994 and again in 2010. Basically no difference in the surgery or the rehab, 16 years apart. HTH.

No, I'm not a professional athlete.

How do you know whether or not the surgeries were different or similar? You didn't perform either surgery.

Because I prefer not to let people cut on me without knowing what they are going to do first. Granted, I think the guy in 1994 was a little ahead of his time (two different surgeons).

As I understand it the progression has been more related to rehab advancements and not necessarily the actual surgery. Surgically the major advancement was early 90s. Granted, the surgery has gotten better then to now. Rehab is where more drastic improvement has occurred, though.

Well I can't attest to the rehab of professional athletes, but in my case the rehab wasn't much different either.

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Rotoworld:

NFL Media sees Georgia RB Todd Gurley as an attractive option for the Cowboys at No. 27.

The Cowboys have a gaping RB vacancy after watching DeMarco Murray sign with the Eagles. "Gurley (6-foot-0 5/8, 222 pounds) is both physical and fast, and he also is an effective receiver. He even returned some kicks for the Bulldogs," wrote College Football 24/7 writer Mike Huguenin. "Having [Joseph] Randle on hand -- not to mention a big-time offensive line -- would help ease Gurley's NFL learning curve if he ends up in Dallas." The industry is more or less in agreement that Gurley is going to go in the first round even though he's coming off ACL surgery. If he fell to No. 27, and the Cowboys hadn't previously addressed the position, it could be very foolish to pass.
Source: NFL.com
Mar 12 - 7:18 PM

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Gordon or any rookie RB who is healthy enough to participate in training camp would make a lot more sense for the Cowboys than Gurley does imho.

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Gordon or any rookie RB who is healthy enough to participate in training camp would make a lot more sense for the Cowboys than Gurley does imho.

Yeah, kind of seems to be lining up where maybe Gurley goes to Indy (they can ride Gore in year 1) and Gordon to Dallas.

Then again Dallas may just sign someone.

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Gordon or any rookie RB who is healthy enough to participate in training camp would make a lot more sense for the Cowboys than Gurley does imho.

Yeah, kind of seems to be lining up where maybe Gurley goes to Indy (they can ride Gore in year 1) and Gordon to Dallas.

Then again Dallas may just sign someone.

It makes more sense for a team that has a bridge RB they can rely on for 2015 to take Gurley, like the Colts or Seahawks for example.

The Cowboys should be in a win now mode because Tony Romo is not getting any younger.

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Anyone think SD could be possible for Gurley/Gordon now that Mathews isn't back? Or do most people think that may be too early?

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Anyone think SD could be possible for Gurley/Gordon now that Mathews isn't back? Or do most people think that may be too early?

San Diego is kind of in no man's land. Their first rounder would be too early but they'll probably be gone by the time their pick comes up in the 2nd.

Trading down is possible, but in the end they have a lot of holes to fill and will probably just grab a RB somewhere in rounds 2-4.

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Gordon or any rookie RB who is healthy enough to participate in training camp would make a lot more sense for the Cowboys than Gurley does imho.

Yeah, kind of seems to be lining up where maybe Gurley goes to Indy (they can ride Gore in year 1) and Gordon to Dallas.

Then again Dallas may just sign someone.

It makes more sense for a team that has a bridge RB they can rely on for 2015 to take Gurley, like the Colts or Seahawks for example.

The Cowboys should be in a win now mode because Tony Romo is not getting any younger.

Don't tell the Christine Michaels fan club.

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Well, here's a guy not worried about Gurley's knee.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/mock-drafts/brian-baldinger/245600

that mock has Williams falling to 9 and the Titans taking Randy Gregory. Two RBs in the top 17 picks? Beasley falling to 16.

None of these will happen. Might just be the worst mock yet.

Edited by FUBAR

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Well, here's a guy not worried about Gurley's knee.http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/mock-drafts/brian-baldinger/245600

that mock has Williams falling to 9 and the Titans taking Randy Gregory. Neither is happening.

Casserly just had Williams fall that far as well. This was also done before news of Tenn signing 2 edge rushers.

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If Gurley is a top 18 pick in the draft I would be shocked. Not saying it hasn't happened before either. The Panthers took Johnathan Stewart 13th overall even though he had a toe injury and they knew he wouldn't be ready to play for awhile.

I think it is more likely he falls into the second round than it is for him to be picked in the top 18

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Citing Peterson and Welkers recovery times while ignoring all the other players who didn't recover that quickly seems like a pretty selective way of evaluating the risk to me. But hey as long as it was recent is all that matters right?

Who are the other players, though? I really can't think of any recent counter examples, off the top of my head. It sure looks like a pretty routine procedure with a pretty consistent recovery period that suggests Gurley will be ready to start the season.

And it's not just Peterson and Welker--there's Maclin, Gronk, Charles, again, off the top of my head.

Edited by Concept Coop

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Citing Peterson and Welkers recovery times while ignoring all the other players who didn't recover that quickly seems like a pretty selective way of evaluating the risk to me. But hey as long as it was recent is all that matters right?

Who are the other players, though? I really can't think of many recent counter examples, off the top of my head. It sure looks like a pretty routine procedure with a pretty consistent recovery period that suggests Gurley will be ready to start the season.

I've mentioned Charles several times but it seems to get ignored.

Interestingly I was listening to DJ move the sticks the other day and he had Jim Schwartz on to talk some things. They discussed Kiko Alonzo trade. Basically Jim said nobody on NFL teams are concerned about ACL anymore. They know the timeline and know the recovery. Said it's become a fairly predictable thing.

Edited by jurb26

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Citing Peterson and Welkers recovery times while ignoring all the other players who didn't recover that quickly seems like a pretty selective way of evaluating the risk to me. But hey as long as it was recent is all that matters right?

Who are the other players, though? I really can't think of many recent counter examples, off the top of my head. It sure looks like a pretty routine procedure with a pretty consistent recovery period that suggests Gurley will be ready to start the season.

I've mentioned Charles several times but it seems to get ignored.

Interestingly I was listening to DJ move the sticks the other day and he had Jim Schwartz on to talk some things. They discussed Kiko Alonzo trade. Basically Jim said nobody on NFL teams are concerned about ACL anymore. They know the timeline and know the recovery.

That's interesting.

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Jamal Charles ACL injury occurred mid September and therefore he had a full year to recover from it which he did. That isn't the same thing as Gurley's injury which happened mid November.

They do know the timeline for recovery which is data that I posted earlier in the thread. It is typically one year before the player is able to play again.

What was miraculous about Peterson's recovery was that it happened in November and he was able to play week one of the following season. So ahead of schedule on the time frame it usually takes.

There is also evidence of players not being fully recovered until 2 years after the injury. They might be recovered enough to play after one year but they do not play at as high a level until 2 years after it.

Then there are players who lose a lot of their former ability even after fully recovering from the injury.

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Jamal Charles ACL injury occurred mid September and therefore he had a full year to recover from it which he did. That isn't the same thing as Gurley's injury which happened mid November.

They do know the timeline for recovery which is data that I posted earlier in the thread. It is typically one year before the player is able to play again.

What was miraculous about Peterson's recovery was that it happened in November and he was able to play week one of the following season. So ahead of schedule on the time frame it usually takes.

Gronk tore his in December and was able to play week 1 of the next season. Heck, Wes Welker tore his in January and was able to play week 1.

Neither were at full strength yet (and each got more productive as the season went on), but playing 8-10 months after an ACL tear is the norm now, not unusual.

Edited by FreeBaGeL

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Jamal Charles ACL injury occurred mid September and therefore he had a full year to recover from it which he did. That isn't the same thing as Gurley's injury which happened mid November.

They do know the timeline for recovery which is data that I posted earlier in the thread. It is typically one year before the player is able to play again.

What was miraculous about Peterson's recovery was that it happened in November and he was able to play week one of the following season. So ahead of schedule on the time frame it usually takes.

There is also evidence of players not being fully recovered until 2 years after the injury. They might be recovered enough to play after one year but they do not play at as high a level until 2 years after it.

Then there are players who lose a lot of their former ability even after fully recovering from the injury.

Wrong, 8-9 months is considered typical recover now. Not a full year. Schwartz even alludes to this in his comments.

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There is nothing wrong about what I said jurb despite what some may consider to be a typical recovery time.

I guess it depends on what you consider recovered?

Able to practice? Or able to play? What about able to play as well as before?

I don't think it is helpful to compare players from other positions than RB for this either. RB get more than other players and need to change direction more as well.

While you talk about the success stories of Peterson and Chales you seem to forget the players who did not come back from it, like Rashard Mendenhall and a long list of players who haven't.

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There is nothing wrong about what I said jurb despite what some may consider to be a typical recovery time.

I guess it depends on what you consider recovered?

Able to practice? Or able to play? What about able to play as well as before?

I don't think it is helpful to compare players from other positions than RB for this either. RB get more than other players and need to change direction more as well.

While you talk about the success stories of Peterson and Chales you seem to forget the players who did not come back from it, like Rashard Mendenhall and a long list of players who haven't.

Nobody is saying he will be full speed in 8-9 months. As a matter of fact it's been said repeatedly we don't think he will be. He should be able to play and participate, though.

I'm talking about recent examples and reiterating what people are actually saying about Gurley and this type of injury, today.

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While you talk about the success stories of Peterson and Chales you seem to forget the players who did not come back from it, like Rashard Mendenhall and a long list of players who haven't.

Who else? Mendenhall went from Pitt to an awful AZ situation. That and he openly lost his passion for football.

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Casserly mocking Gurley to SD at 16. Says he's his top player in the draft.

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While you talk about the success stories of Peterson and Chales you seem to forget the players who did not come back from it, like Rashard Mendenhall and a long list of players who haven't.

Who else? Mendenhall went from Pitt to an awful AZ situation. That and he openly lost his passion for football.

I don't have a full list of RB who have had ACL injuries recently. Seems like a useful list to put together.

Here is one

Stevan Ridley - RB - Patriots

Stevan Ridley is done for the season with tears to his ACL and MCL.

It's an unfortunate end to an up-and-down season, and quite possibly an up-and-down career in New England. Ridley will be a free agent in 2015. One of the league's most underrated power backs when healthy, Ridley was a frustrating player in Foxboro due to his pass-game limitations and fumbles that repeatedly got Ridley benched by fickle coach Bill Belichick. Ridley turns 26 in January. Coming off multiple knee ligament tears, Ridley will be greeted by a disappointing free agent market next March.

Source: Mike Reiss on Twitter

Oct 13 - 5:30 PM

I do think looking at all of the RB would be more honest and objective than only talking about Peterson's recovery and considering that to be typical.

Here are a couple more articles I found recently about the issue-

Fantasy: Projecting How Jamaal Charles, Others Return from ACL Tears

ACL injury not as big a draft day deterrent for NFL teams anymore

Each year, roughly six percent of the athletes who attend the NFL's scouting combine already have a reconstructed ACL.

A study published in the American Journal of Sports Medicine in 2009 -- Giants team physician Dr. Russell Warren and vice president of medical services Ronnie Barnes were among its six authors -- found there was no difference in length of career or number of games played for players who came into the league with a previous ACL reconstruction. By comparison, those who had another common knee injury and underwent a meniscectomy had careers that were on average one and half years and 23 games shorter than players without previous surgery.
In other words, history of an ACL injury before entering the NFL does not affect the length of a career. The tolerance by NFL front offices has changed drastically regarding players with ACL injuries.
"I think modern medicine, the modern technology of getting these guys back on the field is so much better than it has been in the past," Giants general manager Jerry Reese said when asked about the prospects of players such as South Carolina running back Marcus Lattimore and Penn State linebacker Michael Mauti in this year's draft.
Lattimore's knee was mangled in late October when he tore his ACL, MCL and PCL. Mauti suffered his third ACL injury in five years in November, toward the end of an All-America senior season. Both players were selected in the NFL draft last month -- Lattimore in the fourth round (No. 131 overall) by San Francisco, and Mauti in the seventh (No. 213 overall) by Minnesota.
"You see guys with these catastrophic injuries come back much quicker and much more successful than they have done in the past," Reese said. "So we look at it a little different."
However, once in the NFL, the tolerance by front offices changes drastically.
A 2010 study in the same Journal -- this one by a group of doctors that included Andrews -- found that only 63 percent of athletes who underwent an ACL reconstruction during their NFL career returned to play another game. Most of those who did not return were drafted in the fourth round or lower.
But even in the case of an All-Pro talent such as Jets cornerback Darrelle Revis, there are more questions about his return in 2013 than there likely would have been had he torn his ACL in college or high school. That's one of the reasons the Jets have had difficulty finding a partner willing to trade for him without seeing him back on the field. Vikings running back Adrian Peterson, who came back from an ACL tear in 2011 and came within a first down of breaking the NFL's single-season rushing record in 2012, may have set the tone for remarkable ACL comebacks, but he's still the anomaly and not the norm.
"All general managers deal with facts and not sound bites or noise," former Colts executive and current ESPN analyst Bill Polian said. "The fact is [Revis] is an injured player who has not proven yet that he is what he was before he got hurt."
Edited by Biabreakable

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Directly from the Revis article when he got injured.

"A Monday morning MRI exam confirmed the Jets' worst fears, leaving their struggling defense without its best player. Revis will wait two to three weeks before having the surgery, the team said. The usual recovery time for ACL surgery is six to nine months."

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/8420040/new-york-jets-darrelle-revis-torn-acl-undergo-surgery

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Rotoworld:

Todd Gurley - RB - Bulldogs

NFL Films' Greg Cosell believes Georgia RB Todd Gurley is clearly the No. 1 back in the draft.

As he did on The Midday 180 earlier this month, Cosell compared Gurley to a blend of Steven Jackson and Marshawn Lynch in the prime of their respective careers. Cosell believes Gurley (6-foot-0 5/8, 222 pounds) will hang around the NFL for a long time. Gurley would look good with a star on his helmet, and you can bet the Cowboys are hoping his rehabbing knee incites a tumble to No. 27.

Source: Ross Tucker Podcast

Mar 15 - 4:53 PM

Edited by Faust

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Rotoworld:

Georgia RB Todd Gurley is visiting the Lions on Monday.

Due to a late season ACL tear, Gurley was not able to workout at the Combine and denied medical checks at the advice from his doctor. He will be re-checked later in the process, but teams hosting him on vists will likely go through their own evaluations. It is difficult to peg where Gurley will be drafted, but he is a top 10 talent.
Mar 16 - 11:42 AM

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I was all in on Gordon, but I'm starting to lean Gurley with all this hype.

You can really tell when a trusted source says something to someone, because suddenly, everyone on NFLN is claiming Gurley was top 10 before the draft, and now they can't see him getting out of the top 20 or so.

Before, these guys were relying on their own abilities, and guessing on players' value.

It does make sense, you keep hearing that teams only have 12-18 players ranked as 1st rounders, why wouldn't a good team use a late first rounder (who may be graded same as the 45th or 50th player) on a player like Gurley?

Is any player at #24 likely to help the Cards next December as much as Gurley?

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The timetable is 1 year until completely healed from surgery.

Full-speed easily at 8-9 months.

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Rotoworld:

Georgia RB Todd Gurley has not planned any private workouts close to the draft, according to Online Athens's Marc Weiszer.

"Gurley said he’s not planned any private workouts close to the draft. He continues to rehab in Pensacola, Fla. He said the plan is for him to be ready by late July for minicamp," Weiszer wrote. In April, the Georgia prospect plans to return to Indianapolis for a medical recheck with NFL team doctors. The 6-foot-1, 236-pound Gurley should hear his name called in the first round of the draft.
Mar 18 - 4:19 PM

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Rotoworld:

Georgia RB Todd Gurley has a visit scheduled with the Panthers on Thursday.

Gurley wrapped up a visit with the Lions on Monday and attended Georgia's pro day on Wednesday, although he did not participate due to injury. Gurley has the talent to potentially be one of the few foundation pieces in this class, and the Panthers might feel like that is too much to pass up on at pick No. 25 despite being stuck to Johnathan Stewart's contract through the 2016 season.
Mar 18 - 12:23 PM

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1.01 Rookie Pick.

Any of you will be lucky if he lands on your favorite team. Don't see him landing in Chicago or Arizona, I'd be thrilled though.

Edited by Eminence

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I had ACL reconstruction in 1994 and again in 2010. Basically no difference in the surgery or the rehab, 16 years apart. HTH.

No, I'm not a professional athlete.

How do you know whether or not the surgeries were different or similar? You didn't perform either surgery.

Because I prefer not to let people cut on me without knowing what they are going to do first. Granted, I think the guy in 1994 was a little ahead of his time (two different surgeons).

did they stay at a Holiday Inn Express????? lmao :lmao:

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I hope neither of Gordon/Gurley land in ARIZONA because I really liked Ellington, but seems they may be phasing him out, rumors of AP in arizona now....

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