George Jefferson Airplane
Footballguy
Plus they were saying this missle system was just taken across the border FROM RUSSIA, in the past two weeks. Basically Putin and his supporters are saying, I didn't #### your wife because she unzipped my pants.
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Malaysian plane shot down in Ukraine. (1 Viewer)
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DocHolliday
Footballguy
I still do not see the point of an investigation. Even if Russia was heaviliy involved in shooting down the plane, nothing will be done. Sure, some countries may scold Putin some more but that does not really do anything. Putin is moving forward with his plans in Ukraine.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
So you're not looking for a verdict beyond reasonable doubt. You just want a reasonable verdict.
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SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Totally Right. Putin keeps trying to flip the logic. Completely cynical.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I will say this for an investigation: if the Russians are involved maybe it will at least shame Putin in front of his own population, should they hear the news and should they believe it. But in any event I think it should be done for the truth, for the victims and the families/ Let the light shine in.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Look I see your point about moralizing. I don't want a verdict. I want the missile launcher examined, I want the black boxes examined, and an explanation of who made the calls on the SAM site, where it came from, who the commander is, and who is running the show in Donetsk & Luhansk overall. It just needs to be said. We can leave aside whether the USA is morally superior, I just think the facts should come out and this thing should be examined like every other airliner crash.
Ditka Butkus
Footballguy
of course Russia has its finger prints on it.....But no way in hell is Putin going to come out and say yep it was my boys...The US had no choice but to claim our mistake. The missile was shot off of our Navy ship by our military.....This one is more convoluted. If Putin has separation as it appears he does ..he will maintain that separation....Its as if people are waiting for Putin to say...Yeah I shot that passenger plane down and I liked it too...
Politician Spock
Footballguy
My asking "what if it was no accident" has nothing to do with the USA and/or moralizing.
If you are already convinced it was an accident, you will look at all evidence, including evidence we already have and that which we don't have yet, to see what you want to see.
At this point, it being an accident seems to be most likely, but let the evidence determine the truth, and not quick assumptions.
Quez
Footballguy
What if it was an accident? Like the theory the people were untrained and shot it out thinking it was a transport plane. Do we risk starting WW3 for this?
Some of the responsibility needs to be placed on Malaysian Airlines for flying over a war zone.
Some of the responsibility needs to be placed on Malaysian Airlines for flying over a war zone.
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George Jefferson Airplane
Footballguy
Flying at 33k feet in an area that was not considered to be restricted by pretty much every airline?
dickey moe
Fingerpicker
Difficult to let evidence that has been subjected to considerable tampering determine truth.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
Unfortunately we live in a world where a person like OJ Simpson, and even a national government, can get away with murder.
The other option is WW III.
B-Deep
Footballguy
The problem is us humans are too much like the violence loving chimpanzees and not enough like the kind sex loving bonobos.
If Putin and Poroshenko were chimps they would resort to violence in conflict resolution, much like they are now. However, if they were bonobos, they'd use rump rubbing to resolve their conflict. They would go back to back and rub their scrotal sacs together.
I think we can all agree the latter is a much better form of conflict resolution than violence.
If Putin and Poroshenko were chimps they would resort to violence in conflict resolution, much like they are now. However, if they were bonobos, they'd use rump rubbing to resolve their conflict. They would go back to back and rub their scrotal sacs together.
I think we can all agree the latter is a much better form of conflict resolution than violence.
CBusAlex
Footballguy
shader
Footballguy
Interesting quote in his twitter feed:
For 10 years now we've been hearing the "What a blunder! Doesn't Putin realize how bad this looks!?" garbage in West. HE. DOESN'T. CARE.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
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Doug B
Footballguy
From what I've been gathering in this thread ... Russia has accomplished with its cheap natural gas what it never could with its armies: subugation of Europe.
How much power does that "natural gas" card hold, anyway? Would NATO nations truly be free to act to oppose "rebels" in Latvia or Lithuania? In NATO-member Poland?
Because who wants to start WWIII, right? Putin's rope apparently has a ton of slack in it.
How much power does that "natural gas" card hold, anyway? Would NATO nations truly be free to act to oppose "rebels" in Latvia or Lithuania? In NATO-member Poland?
Because who wants to start WWIII, right? Putin's rope apparently has a ton of slack in it.
Yep. Not to ruin this fantastic thread with a bunch of legal mumbo-jumbo. But to be successful in a case like this the victims' families would probably have to demonstrate that the airline was operating outside of industry standard. The question is made more interesting given the FAA had told US airlines to avoid the airspace. But if British Airways, Lufthansa, etc. were not avoiding Ukrainian airspace Malaysian probably shouldn't be held responsible for doing what they were doing.Flying at 33k feet in an area that was not considered to be restricted by pretty much every airline?
HellToupee
Footballguy
Don't be silly , WW3 isn't going to spawn out of thisQuez said:
Lufthansa & Air France were flying the same route
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
mr roboto
Footballguy
Re:bolded - I thought that restricted area was farther south. MH17 wasn't even in that FAA restricted area. Their normal flight plan was but they were tacking north.Christo said:Yep. Not to ruin this fantastic thread with a bunch of legal mumbo-jumbo. But to be successful in a case like this the victims' families would probably have to demonstrate that the airline was operating outside of industry standard. The question is made more interesting given the FAA had told US airlines to avoid the airspace. But if British Airways, Lufthansa, etc. were not avoiding Ukrainian airspace Malaysian probably shouldn't be held responsible for doing what they were doing.George Jefferson Airplane said:Flying at 33k feet in an area that was not considered to be restricted by pretty much every airline?Quez said:
mcintyre1
Footballguy
1) Yeah, like there's no other reason to be regularly photographing an active warzone near nations you are pledged to protect by treaty.
2) The service ceiling for an SU-25 ground attack aircraft is ~23,000ft without any weapons loaded. I verified that from Wikipedia 30 seconds after reading the quote. The Russians really don't understand propaganda in the modern age, do they?
Parrothead
Footballguy
Politician Spock
Footballguy
Aerial Assault
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Good to see the French dealing with thug dictators the same way they handle their women.
Politician Spock
Footballguy
That Turkey is PISSED!: http://www.examiner.com/article/u-s-ally-cuts-off-communications-with-obama-and-seeks-new-trade-outside-dollar
All kidding aside, Turkey is a NATO member, so if they just dumped the US dollar over how the US is handling this plane issue, it just reconfirmed my thoughts that we need to just stay the #### out of this mess.
All kidding aside, Turkey is a NATO member, so if they just dumped the US dollar over how the US is handling this plane issue, it just reconfirmed my thoughts that we need to just stay the #### out of this mess.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
But that begs the question as to how did Russia allow a ragtag group of untrained meatheads get access to a weapon that can shoot down a plane as high as 80,000 ft? It would not have even been possible to properly train anyone how to use it in such a short amount of time, given that it requires multiple operators and vehicles to run it. So that means previously trained Russians were probably on the trigger. "Sorry my bad..." is simply not good enough. This isn't a crate of AK-47s or even something like a Stinger missile, which a baby could operate. You can't just give sophisticated weapons like a BUK missile system to a group of ####### idiots that don't know how to use it, and all the evidence at this point appears to indicate that Russia gave it to them and helped them use it.
Mr Non Sequitur
Footballguy
If US Intelligence is saying that Russia didn't pull the switch then this should get a lot easier. If it is the separatists or whatever then they should be held accountable and mowed down or expelled from Ukraine no questions asked.
If Russia were to say stop, what ground do they have to stand on? Are they not against the shooting down of unarmed passenger jets flying about the sky? They can't have it both ways. They aren't the ones that pulled the trigger, fine. Now get out of the way while other countries dismantle whatever it is or whoever it is that shot down the aircraft.
Russia not being directly responsible makes this much easier.
If Russia were to say stop, what ground do they have to stand on? Are they not against the shooting down of unarmed passenger jets flying about the sky? They can't have it both ways. They aren't the ones that pulled the trigger, fine. Now get out of the way while other countries dismantle whatever it is or whoever it is that shot down the aircraft.
Russia not being directly responsible makes this much easier.
CBusAlex
Footballguy
What difference would that make? Are you under the impression Russia cannot take any action unless they are able to morally justify it to the west?
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I don't think that's what's going on here.
Evidence is mounting of Russian direct involvement.
That the black boxes and the crash site have been released is good. That the missile site has disappeared is not good. Basically as Kasparov said the suspect has wandered off with the murder weapon. Usually not a great sign.
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higgins
Footballguy
World War on Russia’s Mind When U.S. Duels Over Ukraine
From his perch as Vladimir Putin's adviser for building ties with fellow former Soviet republics, Sergei Glazyev perceives the world shifting to a war footing.
There's a war waged against Russia with economic sanctions and military conflicts roiling Ukraine to Iraq, according to Glazyev, 53, an academician and a native of Ukraine who for the past two years has advised Putin on integration with Belarus and Kazakhstan. Putin struck back this week with a ban on U.S. and European food imports that may benefit the former Soviet allies.
Setting the world ablaze is the U.S., where "hawks" are provoking a global conflict "with the aim of establishing control not only in Europe, but also in Russia, Ukraine," Glazyev said in an interview in Moscow on Staraya Ploshchad, where the presidential staff has its headquarters. On his office's walls are a picture of Putin and an updated map of Russia that marks the annexed Crimea peninsula as its territory.
Months of a slow boil of European and U.S. sanctions against Russia over Ukraine have done little more than harden a siege mentality in the Kremlin, thrusting controversial advisers like Glazyev to the forefront in Putin's showdown against erstwhile Cold War foes. With the country's richest businessmen shaken by the deepening rift, Glazyev's flair for provocation is needed to "intimidate the elites," according to Mikhail Vinogradov, head of the St. Petersburg Politics Foundation.
Twice Sanctioned
Glazyev, a Soviet-educated economist, has been sanctioned by both the European Union and the U.S. for allegedly meddling in Ukraine's sovereign affairs. A former State Duma deputy and co-founder of the nationalist Rodina party, he ran against Putin for president in 2004.
In 1992-1993, he was the minister for external economic relations, and later served as a senior official at the Eurasian Economic Community and the Customs Union of Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan. Last year he was considered as a candidate to replace Sergey Ignatiev at the helm of Russia's central bank, according to Reuters. The job went to Elvira Nabiullina, a former economy minister and aide to Putin.
While some of Glazyev's proposals have been rebuffed by the government, such as his list of 15 countermeasures against countries that penalize Russia and calls for the central bank to lower interest rates, his denunciation of outside meddling in Ukraine's internal affairs in January and a defense of then-President Viktor Yanukovych highlighted the turn taken by Kremlin during the crisis, which culminated in the seizure of Crimea in March.
Destabilizing Russia?
Putin, who's repeatedly denied any involvement in the pro-Russian insurrection raging in eastern Ukraine, said last month that "ultimatums" made by the U.S. and the EU are aiming to destabilize his country. He also accused the U.S. and its allies of exploiting the crash of Malaysian Air Flight 17 to force him to renounce support for people of Russian heritage in Ukraine.
These arguments resonate with Glazyev, who said the U.S. is trying to grow stronger at the expense of others, thwarting integration across Eurasia and checking China's clout.
In May, Putin signed a treaty with his counterparts from Kazakhstan and Belarus to create a trading bloc of more than 170 million people. Kyrgyzstan and Armenia are seeking to join by the end of the year. The union, effective from the start of 2015, is intended to yield a free flow of goods, capital and workers, and will level tariff and non-tariff regulations.
‘Anti-War Coalition'
Putin has sought to lure Ukraine and its more than 40 million people into the alliance to build a trading bloc to rival the EU. Yanukovych pursued closer ties with the customs union and pulled out of an association agreement with the EU before his ouster in February. His successor, President Petro Poroshenko, signed the free-trade accord with the 28-nation bloc in June.
Russia can't go it alone against the U.S. and must create an "anti-war coalition" to check the "aggressor," Glazyev said.
"The point of a series of regional wars organized by the Americans, especially today's catastrophe in Ukraine, centers on the U.S. securing control over all of north Eurasia" to bolster "its position against China," Glazyev said. "That's how the U.S. military and oligarchs are trying to maintain leadership in the global competition with China."
Collateral Damage
The effort will backfire, said Glazyev, who spoke before a round of retaliatory steps announced by Russia yesterday banning food and agricultural products for one year from the U.S., the EU, Norway, Canada and Australia. The U.S.-led "economic war" against Russia will ricochet, leaving the EU to pay the steepest costs in the conflict, he said.
The trading bloc stands to lose about 1 trillion euros ($1.3 billion), an estimate he says includes the possible bankruptcy of several European banks and companies toppled after the cutoff in financial and economic ties. An energy crisis in Europe will bring a sharp spike in prices and a loss of competitiveness for European producers. Meanwhile, Turkish, Chinese and east Asian nations will fill the void left by the departure of their European rivals from the Russian market.
The fallout will cost 250 billion euros for Germany alone while pushing the three Baltic states to the brink of an "economic catastrophe," he said. Lithuania and Latvia will lose the equivalent of half of their entire economic output, and the cost for Estonia will reach 50 percent more than its gross domestic product, Glazyev said.
Where does that leave Russia?
Priority Task
"Task no. 1 is to block those threats to economic security that are now coming from the U.S., neutralize them by reducing the dependence of our external economic activity on the mercy of American politicians, whose aggressiveness threatens the entire world," he said.
To further insulate its economy, Russia should abandon the use of the U.S. dollar as a reserve currency, according to Glazyev. Russia, which international reserves are the world's fifth-biggest, needs to diversify its holdings to include China's yuan, India's rupee and Brazil's real.
"If a country aspires to reserve status for its currency, it should behave properly, and that isn't the case today," Glazyev said.
Still, turning Russia into a ringed-off economic fortress isn't at the heart of Glazyev's prescriptions. Faced with a souring climate abroad, the country should promote import substitution and policies aimed at reversing the brain drain that's sapped Russia's scientific prowess.
Paranoid Leadership
"What could serve as our chief response is the implementation of a plan for fast-track development of the Russian economy on the basis of a new technological order," he said. "This plan includes a transition to a sovereign monetary system underpinned by internal sources of credit, an active policy of innovation and support for progress in science and technology."
Glazyev is at pains to emphasize that Russia, a "victim of aggression," must build bridges with the international community to rein in America's "aggressive, paranoid political leadership." Penalizing European or U.S. companies is "counterproductive" because they can serve as allies in a conflict that doesn't serve their interest, according to Glazyev.
_________________________________
Russian nuclear-capable bombers ‘tested’ US air defences 16 times in last 10 days
Russian strategic nuclear bombers and other military aircraft entered US air defense identification zones (ADIZs) at least 16 times over the past ten days, American defense officials confirmed on Thursday.
“Over the past week, NORAD has visually identified Russian aircraft operating in and around the US air defense identification zones,” said Maj. Beth Smith, spokeswoman for US Northern Command and the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD).
Smith sought to downplay the incursions that she called “a spike in activity,” telling the Washington Free Beacon’s Bill Gertz that the flights were assessed as routine training missions and exercises.
But an unnamed defense official familiar with the incursion reports disagreed with Smith’s assessment. “These are not just training missions,” the official told Gertz, saying that Russian strategic nuclear forces appear to be “trying to test our air defense reactions, or our command and control systems.”
NORAD scrambled fighter jets several times when Russian strategic aircraft flew along US ADIZs. The planes included a mix of Tu-95 Bear H heavy bombers and Tu-142 Bear F maritime reconnaissance aircraft, as well as one IL-20 intelligence collection aircraft, Smith said.
The bomber flights took place mainly along the Alaskan air defense identification zone that covers the Aleutian Islands and the continental part of the state, and one incursion involved entry into Canada’s air defense zone, she added.
“Such aerial bravado has been rare since the fall of the Soviet Union,” News.com.au wrote. “Until now.”
“And it all appears to be a direct result of the cooling of relations between the West and Russia over the invasion of Crimea and the shooting-down of MH17,” the Australian News Corp site added.
During the Cold War, Soviet bombers sought to trigger US air defenses as preparation for a potential nuclear conflict.
The recent spike in activity after a surface-to-air missile brought down the Malaysia Airlines plane is not the first time Russian military planes were detected in US ADIZs this summer. On June 9, a pair of Tu-95 Bear H aircraft maintained by Russia came close to US airspace during practice bombing while four of the planes were conducting bombing runs near Alaska, a NORAD spokesman told Gertz.
“After tracking the bombers as they flew eastward, two of the four Bears turned around and headed west toward the Russian Far East,” he wrote of the June incident. “The remaining two nuclear-capable bombers then flew southeast and around 9:30 P.M. entered the US northern air defense zone off the coast of Northern California.”
Those two aircraft, Gertz added, made it within 50 miles of the coast before turning around after a US F-15 intercepted them.
Russian aircraft have also made incursions into other countries’ airspace this year. In June, the UK’s Royal Air Force scrambled Typhoon fighter jets to intercept four flights of aircraft in the airspace around the Baltic states. The planes included advanced Tu-22M Backfire bombers, Su-27 Flanker interceptors, an A-50 Mainstay radar aircraft and a transport aircraft, News.com.au wrote. Russian-owned Tu-95 bombers skirted UK airspace and have come close to US property in both Guam and California, The Aviationist reported in May.
In an April incident in international airspace between Russia and Japan, two Russian Su-27 Flanker interceptors flew beneath a US Air Force reconnaissance plane, then “popped up” ahead of the jet, which was forced to take evasive maneuvers, according to News.com.au.
The United States has been flying spy missions of its own, however. Over the weekend, US officials confirmed Swedish media reports that an American spy plane invaded Sweden’s airspace in mid-July. The maverick plane was spying on Russia when it was intercepted, and was evading a Russian fighter jet when it entered Swedish airspace without permission. Air traffic control had denied the Boeing RC-135 Rivet Joint entrance, Svenska Dagbladet (SvD) newspaper said. The incident occurred on July 18, the day after MH17 was shot down.
From his perch as Vladimir Putin's adviser for building ties with fellow former Soviet republics, Sergei Glazyev perceives the world shifting to a war footing.
There's a war waged against Russia with economic sanctions and military conflicts roiling Ukraine to Iraq, according to Glazyev, 53, an academician and a native of Ukraine who for the past two years has advised Putin on integration with Belarus and Kazakhstan. Putin struck back this week with a ban on U.S. and European food imports that may benefit the former Soviet allies.
Setting the world ablaze is the U.S., where "hawks" are provoking a global conflict "with the aim of establishing control not only in Europe, but also in Russia, Ukraine," Glazyev said in an interview in Moscow on Staraya Ploshchad, where the presidential staff has its headquarters. On his office's walls are a picture of Putin and an updated map of Russia that marks the annexed Crimea peninsula as its territory.
Months of a slow boil of European and U.S. sanctions against Russia over Ukraine have done little more than harden a siege mentality in the Kremlin, thrusting controversial advisers like Glazyev to the forefront in Putin's showdown against erstwhile Cold War foes. With the country's richest businessmen shaken by the deepening rift, Glazyev's flair for provocation is needed to "intimidate the elites," according to Mikhail Vinogradov, head of the St. Petersburg Politics Foundation.
Twice Sanctioned
Glazyev, a Soviet-educated economist, has been sanctioned by both the European Union and the U.S. for allegedly meddling in Ukraine's sovereign affairs. A former State Duma deputy and co-founder of the nationalist Rodina party, he ran against Putin for president in 2004.
In 1992-1993, he was the minister for external economic relations, and later served as a senior official at the Eurasian Economic Community and the Customs Union of Russia, Belarus and Kazakhstan. Last year he was considered as a candidate to replace Sergey Ignatiev at the helm of Russia's central bank, according to Reuters. The job went to Elvira Nabiullina, a former economy minister and aide to Putin.
While some of Glazyev's proposals have been rebuffed by the government, such as his list of 15 countermeasures against countries that penalize Russia and calls for the central bank to lower interest rates, his denunciation of outside meddling in Ukraine's internal affairs in January and a defense of then-President Viktor Yanukovych highlighted the turn taken by Kremlin during the crisis, which culminated in the seizure of Crimea in March.
Destabilizing Russia?
Putin, who's repeatedly denied any involvement in the pro-Russian insurrection raging in eastern Ukraine, said last month that "ultimatums" made by the U.S. and the EU are aiming to destabilize his country. He also accused the U.S. and its allies of exploiting the crash of Malaysian Air Flight 17 to force him to renounce support for people of Russian heritage in Ukraine.
These arguments resonate with Glazyev, who said the U.S. is trying to grow stronger at the expense of others, thwarting integration across Eurasia and checking China's clout.
In May, Putin signed a treaty with his counterparts from Kazakhstan and Belarus to create a trading bloc of more than 170 million people. Kyrgyzstan and Armenia are seeking to join by the end of the year. The union, effective from the start of 2015, is intended to yield a free flow of goods, capital and workers, and will level tariff and non-tariff regulations.
‘Anti-War Coalition'
Putin has sought to lure Ukraine and its more than 40 million people into the alliance to build a trading bloc to rival the EU. Yanukovych pursued closer ties with the customs union and pulled out of an association agreement with the EU before his ouster in February. His successor, President Petro Poroshenko, signed the free-trade accord with the 28-nation bloc in June.
Russia can't go it alone against the U.S. and must create an "anti-war coalition" to check the "aggressor," Glazyev said.
"The point of a series of regional wars organized by the Americans, especially today's catastrophe in Ukraine, centers on the U.S. securing control over all of north Eurasia" to bolster "its position against China," Glazyev said. "That's how the U.S. military and oligarchs are trying to maintain leadership in the global competition with China."
Collateral Damage
The effort will backfire, said Glazyev, who spoke before a round of retaliatory steps announced by Russia yesterday banning food and agricultural products for one year from the U.S., the EU, Norway, Canada and Australia. The U.S.-led "economic war" against Russia will ricochet, leaving the EU to pay the steepest costs in the conflict, he said.
The trading bloc stands to lose about 1 trillion euros ($1.3 billion), an estimate he says includes the possible bankruptcy of several European banks and companies toppled after the cutoff in financial and economic ties. An energy crisis in Europe will bring a sharp spike in prices and a loss of competitiveness for European producers. Meanwhile, Turkish, Chinese and east Asian nations will fill the void left by the departure of their European rivals from the Russian market.
The fallout will cost 250 billion euros for Germany alone while pushing the three Baltic states to the brink of an "economic catastrophe," he said. Lithuania and Latvia will lose the equivalent of half of their entire economic output, and the cost for Estonia will reach 50 percent more than its gross domestic product, Glazyev said.
Where does that leave Russia?
Priority Task
"Task no. 1 is to block those threats to economic security that are now coming from the U.S., neutralize them by reducing the dependence of our external economic activity on the mercy of American politicians, whose aggressiveness threatens the entire world," he said.
To further insulate its economy, Russia should abandon the use of the U.S. dollar as a reserve currency, according to Glazyev. Russia, which international reserves are the world's fifth-biggest, needs to diversify its holdings to include China's yuan, India's rupee and Brazil's real.
"If a country aspires to reserve status for its currency, it should behave properly, and that isn't the case today," Glazyev said.
Still, turning Russia into a ringed-off economic fortress isn't at the heart of Glazyev's prescriptions. Faced with a souring climate abroad, the country should promote import substitution and policies aimed at reversing the brain drain that's sapped Russia's scientific prowess.
Paranoid Leadership
"What could serve as our chief response is the implementation of a plan for fast-track development of the Russian economy on the basis of a new technological order," he said. "This plan includes a transition to a sovereign monetary system underpinned by internal sources of credit, an active policy of innovation and support for progress in science and technology."
Glazyev is at pains to emphasize that Russia, a "victim of aggression," must build bridges with the international community to rein in America's "aggressive, paranoid political leadership." Penalizing European or U.S. companies is "counterproductive" because they can serve as allies in a conflict that doesn't serve their interest, according to Glazyev.
_________________________________
Russian nuclear-capable bombers ‘tested’ US air defences 16 times in last 10 days
Russian strategic nuclear bombers and other military aircraft entered US air defense identification zones (ADIZs) at least 16 times over the past ten days, American defense officials confirmed on Thursday.
“Over the past week, NORAD has visually identified Russian aircraft operating in and around the US air defense identification zones,” said Maj. Beth Smith, spokeswoman for US Northern Command and the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD).
Smith sought to downplay the incursions that she called “a spike in activity,” telling the Washington Free Beacon’s Bill Gertz that the flights were assessed as routine training missions and exercises.
But an unnamed defense official familiar with the incursion reports disagreed with Smith’s assessment. “These are not just training missions,” the official told Gertz, saying that Russian strategic nuclear forces appear to be “trying to test our air defense reactions, or our command and control systems.”
NORAD scrambled fighter jets several times when Russian strategic aircraft flew along US ADIZs. The planes included a mix of Tu-95 Bear H heavy bombers and Tu-142 Bear F maritime reconnaissance aircraft, as well as one IL-20 intelligence collection aircraft, Smith said.
The bomber flights took place mainly along the Alaskan air defense identification zone that covers the Aleutian Islands and the continental part of the state, and one incursion involved entry into Canada’s air defense zone, she added.
“Such aerial bravado has been rare since the fall of the Soviet Union,” News.com.au wrote. “Until now.”
“And it all appears to be a direct result of the cooling of relations between the West and Russia over the invasion of Crimea and the shooting-down of MH17,” the Australian News Corp site added.
During the Cold War, Soviet bombers sought to trigger US air defenses as preparation for a potential nuclear conflict.
The recent spike in activity after a surface-to-air missile brought down the Malaysia Airlines plane is not the first time Russian military planes were detected in US ADIZs this summer. On June 9, a pair of Tu-95 Bear H aircraft maintained by Russia came close to US airspace during practice bombing while four of the planes were conducting bombing runs near Alaska, a NORAD spokesman told Gertz.
“After tracking the bombers as they flew eastward, two of the four Bears turned around and headed west toward the Russian Far East,” he wrote of the June incident. “The remaining two nuclear-capable bombers then flew southeast and around 9:30 P.M. entered the US northern air defense zone off the coast of Northern California.”
Those two aircraft, Gertz added, made it within 50 miles of the coast before turning around after a US F-15 intercepted them.
Russian aircraft have also made incursions into other countries’ airspace this year. In June, the UK’s Royal Air Force scrambled Typhoon fighter jets to intercept four flights of aircraft in the airspace around the Baltic states. The planes included advanced Tu-22M Backfire bombers, Su-27 Flanker interceptors, an A-50 Mainstay radar aircraft and a transport aircraft, News.com.au wrote. Russian-owned Tu-95 bombers skirted UK airspace and have come close to US property in both Guam and California, The Aviationist reported in May.
In an April incident in international airspace between Russia and Japan, two Russian Su-27 Flanker interceptors flew beneath a US Air Force reconnaissance plane, then “popped up” ahead of the jet, which was forced to take evasive maneuvers, according to News.com.au.
The United States has been flying spy missions of its own, however. Over the weekend, US officials confirmed Swedish media reports that an American spy plane invaded Sweden’s airspace in mid-July. The maverick plane was spying on Russia when it was intercepted, and was evading a Russian fighter jet when it entered Swedish airspace without permission. Air traffic control had denied the Boeing RC-135 Rivet Joint entrance, Svenska Dagbladet (SvD) newspaper said. The incident occurred on July 18, the day after MH17 was shot down.
if by it, you mean the plane, then yes. They know where the plane shot down in the Ukraine is - or at least what is left of it.
El Floppo
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
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Apple Jack
Footballguy
