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georg013

Isaiah Crowell

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What are your expectations for him?

This year?

Short term (2-3 years)

Long term (4+ years)

Is he a speculative hold at this point? He is starting to remind me of Ben Tate without the production. Possibly stuck behind a solid starter until his rookie contract is up.

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I drafted him this year in the 3rd. Complete roll of the dice IMO. He's talented but who knows if he can get his head on straight. Tate and West don't seem insurmountable competition; not like he got drafted behind AD or McCoy.

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not like he got drafted behind AD or McCoy.

Yeah, because he wasn't drafted at all.

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I like him as a speculative add for dynasty teams that are either really good or really bad. If your team is really bad, his talent is worth sitting on for awhile even if he doesn't play or make the 53 man roster every week assuming he doesn't have huge off the field issues. If your team is really good, you should know whether he will turn it around as a professional and get some playing time by mid-year or sooner and if not, just dump him for another speculative add.

ETA: For teams in between where roster spots are more important and valuable, I wouldn't touch him.

Edited by ConstruxBoy

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Spent a late 3rd on him as well, and my hope is for him to just wait and learn. Tate WILL get hurt, Baker and Ogbonnaya are just guys and I doubt they would give every single carry to West even thought the reports are pretty good on him so far. That makes Crowell's wait for carries not very long and I'm expecting to see him get some useful snaps this year. Hopefully that leads to us getting a good enough read if he has it or not.

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not like he got drafted behind AD or McCoy.

Yeah, because he wasn't drafted at all.
Ha, yes, but the but gist is the same.

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I like him as a speculative add for dynasty teams that are either really good or really bad. If your team is really bad, his talent is worth sitting on for awhile even if he doesn't play or make the 53 man roster every week assuming he doesn't have huge off the field issues. If your team is really good, you should know whether he will turn it around as a professional and get some playing time by mid-year or sooner and if not, just dump him for another speculative add.

ETA: For teams in between where roster spots are more important and valuable, I wouldn't touch him.

Makes a ton of sense.

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Worst argument against Crowell: He didn't dominate his team's carries so he must not have been that talented.

So what if Andre Williams and Matt Forte had declared as Juniors? Does makes them less "talented"? Did they somehow "get more talented" in their Senior season? Does that mean we think Crowell's teammate Malcolm Cyrus has some talent as well? How about If Karlos Williams had declared last year? He didn't even lead his team in carries, so he must be less talented than Freeman. Who's to say that Crowell couldn't have gotten a larger share of carries if he had stayed another year?

Does Ka'Deem Carey's dominance of his team's carries make him more talented than Isaiah Crowell? Does it even say he's "talented"?

Here's an old school one: Deuce McAllister. He was in a virtual timeshare with Joe Gunn. I guess McAllister wasn't that talented.

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A good exchange here involving Dane Brugler: https://twitter.com/dpbrugler/status/494899412611522560

My two favorite lines:

Dane Brugler @dpbrugler Jul 31

@DavyWhite Did you study the tape? Talk to his coaches and ask why? Talk to Crowell about why? Or just make assumptions from box scores?

@DavyWhite Seriously? So instead of getting the full story, you make wild assumptions from box scores? You have to be smarter than that...

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A good exchange here involving Dane Brugler: https://twitter.com/dpbrugler/status/494899412611522560

My two favorite lines:

Dane Brugler @dpbrugler Jul 31

@DavyWhite Did you study the tape? Talk to his coaches and ask why? Talk to Crowell about why? Or just make assumptions from box scores?

@DavyWhite Seriously? So instead of getting the full story, you make wild assumptions from box scores? You have to be smarter than that...

The knock on Crowell is not how he totes the rock. It's that he's acted like he's dumb like a box of 'em

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A good exchange here involving Dane Brugler: https://twitter.com/dpbrugler/status/494899412611522560

My two favorite lines:

Dane Brugler ‏@dpbrugler Jul 31

@DavyWhite Did you study the tape? Talk to his coaches and ask why? Talk to Crowell about why? Or just make assumptions from box scores?

@DavyWhite Seriously? So instead of getting the full story, you make wild assumptions from box scores? You have to be smarter than that...

Intense, although I stopped listening when that other guy said something to the effect of "I don't scount players, etc." how can you argue talent if you've never scouted players. Didnt he even admit he doesn't watch tape?

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Terrence West looked like garbage...

Not true at all.
What'eves

I watched the entire game- he looked like shizzle...

Edited by Brewtown

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Did he even see the field tonight?

No. I was coming here to see if I could get any insight as to why that is. I guess the upside from last night is that Manziel was the team's leading rusher and none of the backs that did play looked particularly good although the Lions are a tough team to run against.

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The fact that Crowell missed all of the OTAs because of injury and didn't even play in the first pre-season game is not a good sign. If he is going to make the team he has a lot of ground to make up.

Clearly Tate is the #1 and West is #2 at this time and Crowell isn't in the conversation yet.

Edited by az_prof

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I watched all of the RB carries last night. It will be an interesting battle between Tate and West. Both guys seem to have some viability, but I'm not yet sold that either guy is long term starter material. I almost have it as a coin flip between the two and could see it going either way. West has nice thump, but may lack a little bit of suddenness in his cuts.

The fact that Crowell didn't get any carries doesn't bode that well for him unless he's carrying an injury. If you want to get tin foil hat, you could say they're hiding him because they want to sneak him onto the practice squad. More often than not though, Occam's razor applies in these cases. The simplest answer is the correct answer. If he's not playing, he probably hasn't been practicing well enough to justify the PT. The Browns aren't so stacked at RB that he shouldn't have a good chance to be competing, but it looks like the other guys are ahead of him.

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While I agree az_prof and EBF, the fact that Dion Lewis was so brutacular does give me some hope that Crowell sticks around as the number three back.

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Terrence West looked like garbage...

Not true at all.
What'eves

I watched the entire game- he looked like shizzle...

I question if you watched it if this is the conclusion you came to. Completely untrue that he looked like garbage.
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To be fair looking like garbage and playing like garbage are 2 very different things... He looked like garbage because those uniforms are terrible IMO...

He played okay from what I saw... Decent quicks and fought forward a few times without a lot of room to do so...

As far as Crowell I think it's more abt wanting to see what they have in dion Lewis and the battle between west and Tate... I believe we will get to see plenty of Crowell later this preseason

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What I watched of the game - every time I looked up at the 2nd TV with the Browns games on West was getting stuffed and looked slow...

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What I watched of the game - every time I looked up at the 2nd TV with the Browns games on West was getting stuffed and looked slow...

watch the game again. The second tv didn't help your analysis.

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West looked fine. That 2nd string offensive line was doing him no favors. His YPC got blown up on two carries for big losses where they completely missed their assignments and there were multiple unblocked guys in the backfield before West even got the handoff.

He had a merely moderate burst but ran with a lot of strength and surprising agility.

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What I watched of the game - every time I looked up at the 2nd TV with the Browns games on West was getting stuffed and looked slow...

when the second string og wasn't letting the dt walk into the back field West continually juked defenders out of their shoes.

If I had one complaint, he bounced outside one or two too many times. That's it.

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He's overbought at this point for a supposed sleeper who wasn't drafted. In mfl he's between Andre Brown and James White in the runningback draft list.

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The Browns need to cut him immediately so he can go to a team that will use him. Tons of teams were interested but his Agent wrongly thought Cleveland was his best shot. The sooner he gets cut the better for Crowell owners.

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The Browns need to cut him immediately so he can go to a team that will use him.

Wut?

dont remember the last time I have read that

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The Browns need to cut him immediately so he can go to a team that will use him.

Wut?

It's obvious the Browns don't value him. Not even a snap in the first preseason game? He had plenty of other suitors lined up. They will line up again. He needs to get out and get a shot with a team that is more depleted and value what he can do. It's obvious the Browns aren't even going to give him a shot at climbing the depth chart. I'd like to see him with a team where he Walks in as the clear cut #2.

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The Browns need to cut him immediately so he can go to a team that will use him.

Wut?

It's obvious the Browns don't value him. Not even a snap in the first preseason game? He had plenty of other suitors lined up. They will line up again. He needs to get out and get a shot with a team that is more depleted and value what he can do. It's obvious the Browns aren't even going to give him a shot at climbing the depth chart. I'd like to see him with a team where he Walks in as the clear cut #2.

if there was a situation where he'd be handed the clear #2 don't you think that team would've drafted him?

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I'd like to see him with a team where he Walks in as the clear cut #2.

:huh:

You're aware that every team in the league bypassed him for the entire draft, right?

Where do you think he walks in as a clear cut #2? People keep talking about how awesome his talent is. I guess NFL management without exception are missing it.

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The Browns need to cut him immediately so he can go to a team that will use him.

Wut?

It's obvious the Browns don't value him. Not even a snap in the first preseason game? He had plenty of other suitors lined up. They will line up again. He needs to get out and get a shot with a team that is more depleted and value what he can do. It's obvious the Browns aren't even going to give him a shot at climbing the depth chart. I'd like to see him with a team where he Walks in as the clear cut #2.

if there was a situation where he'd be handed the clear #2 don't you think that team would've drafted him?

There are plenty of situations where he could have an easier path to the primary backup. If nfl scouts never missed on anyone then there would be no busts and no successful UDFAs

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The Browns need to cut him immediately so he can go to a team that will use him. Tons of teams were interested but his Agent wrongly thought Cleveland was his best shot. The sooner he gets cut the better for Crowell owners.

Well, he didn't do himself any favors by being hurt and unable to participate in OTAs.

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I'd like to see him with a team where he Walks in as the clear cut #2.

:huh:

You're aware that every team in the league bypassed him for the entire draft, right?

Where do you think he walks in as a clear cut #2? People keep talking about how awesome his talent is. I guess NFL management without exception are missing it.

Maybe "walks in as the #2" was a poor choice of words. How about Arizona? After Ellington it's trash. Have you watched his tape? I think most would agree he's got NFL talent.

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I'd like to see him with a team where he Walks in as the clear cut #2.

:huh:

You're aware that every team in the league bypassed him for the entire draft, right?

Where do you think he walks in as a clear cut #2? People keep talking about how awesome his talent is. I guess NFL management without exception are missing it.

Maybe "walks in as the #2" was a poor choice of words. How about Arizona? After Ellington it's trash. Have you watched his tape? I think most would agree he's got NFL talent.

By most I assume you must mean except NFL management and coaches.

I saw a guy who looked pretty good in limited action as a freshman followed by some solid play against substantially lesser competition. He didn't jump off the page for me at ASU, and he should have. I think he's living off the laurels of his freshman year and others here have soaked that up.

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I'd like to see him with a team where he Walks in as the clear cut #2.

:huh:

You're aware that every team in the league bypassed him for the entire draft, right?

Where do you think he walks in as a clear cut #2? People keep talking about how awesome his talent is. I guess NFL management without exception are missing it.

Maybe "walks in as the #2" was a poor choice of words. How about Arizona? After Ellington it's trash. Have you watched his tape? I think most would agree he's got NFL talent.

first of all, I doubt the coaching staff thinks those guys are trash

secondly, if arizona valued this dude why didn't they draft him?

and lastly, I'm still trying to figure out how you think cle is going to cut everybody who isn't a #2 so they can go find greener pastures --- that really makes some kind of sense to you, or were you joking?

I'd assume joking, but you never know on this board

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Rotoworld:

Isaiah Crowell - RB - Browns

Browns UDFA RB Isaiah Crowell was active for Saturday night's preseason opener, but didn't play an offensive snap.

Ben Tate, Terrance West, Dion Lewis, and Edwin Baker all got carries, while Crowell was relegated to the sideline. The NFL.com Gamebook had Crowell entering the game at some point, presumably on a special teams play. Either way, it's not a great sign for Crowell's chances of making the Browns' final roster.

Aug 10 - 8:44 PM

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He played some on special teams. I saw he had one tackle. Is it possible that the Browns want to see how he'll react to playing just special teams?

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He played some on special teams. I saw he had one tackle. Is it possible that the Browns want to see how he'll react to playing just special teams?

Anything is possible. What's most likely is that they don't think he's that good. It's possible he changes that but that appears to be where we stand right now.

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I wouldn't read too much into him not getting any snaps at RB. All reports I've seen have Crowell looking good in camp. Many times, he's been the 3rd RB in behind Tate & West at practice.

I figured this is the way the Browns would handle it. He's got a short leash and most definitely has to prove himself. The question is can he realize his potential.

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He played some on special teams. I saw he had one tackle. Is it possible that the Browns want to see how he'll react to playing just special teams?

Anything is possible. What's most likely is that they don't think he's that good. It's possible he changes that but that appears to be where we stand right now.

I doubt that is what is most likely. I think he is just getting some humble pie.

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He played some on special teams. I saw he had one tackle. Is it possible that the Browns want to see how he'll react to playing just special teams?

Anything is possible. What's most likely is that they don't think he's that good. It's possible he changes that but that appears to be where we stand right now.

I doubt that is what is most likely. I think he is just getting some humble pie.
Not getting drafted, at all, wasn't enough "humble pie?"

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He played some on special teams. I saw he had one tackle. Is it possible that the Browns want to see how he'll react to playing just special teams?

Anything is possible. What's most likely is that they don't think he's that good. It's possible he changes that but that appears to be where we stand right now.

I doubt that is what is most likely. I think he is just getting some humble pie.
Not getting drafted, at all, wasn't enough "humble pie?"

Apparently not, because even after not getting drafted, Crowell was quoted as saying he feels if he could have made any team and he does not have anything to prove because he knows what he can do. Sounds like someone who needs more humble pie.

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I saw a guy who looked pretty good in limited action as a freshman followed by some solid play against substantially lesser competition. He didn't jump off the page for me at ASU, and he should have. I think he's living off the laurels of his freshman year and others here have soaked that up.

I'm in this boat. Forgetting about the character concerns for a minute and just evaluating his play on the field, I personally don't think he stands out among the best in this class. I want to see Charles Johnson, Jeff Janis, Da'Rick Rogers, and shockingly Terrance West type domination (I know Johnson and Janis are D2 guys).

If you think Crowell is being held back by situation or coaches for motivational purposes, and he really is the most "talented" back in this class, then you must believe that without character concerns he would've been one of the Top 5 RBs off the board in the draft. To me, someone like Jeremy Hill looked far better against the SEC than Crowell did in the SWAC. I'd definitely be among the more surprised if he turns out to be anything decent.

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