What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Child injured at day camp- what to do legally with the camp? (1 Viewer)

Ned Ryerson

Footballguy
My son, who is 7, was at camp at the pool for instructional swim. He had gotten to the edge of the pool and jumped in. Seeing as how there were no other campers in his swim group and only the lifeguard in the pool, he walked out of the pool and jumped again, but this time turned so that his back was facing the pool and jumped backwards attempting a "reverse canonball". In doing so, his head hit the edge of the pool giving him a two inch cut to the bone above his eyebrow, and he was diagnosed with a concussion.

Thank goodness he seems to be no worse for the wear cognitively, and it appears that his scar, which was fixed by a plastic surgeon, should hopefully be minimal.

After the accident he was taken by an ambulance to the emergency room at the camp's suggestion. Unfortunately my insurance plan has a punitive $500 co-pay at emergency rooms. In addition, he has had followups at his pediatrician and the plastic surgeon. Further, he missed 9 days of camp, and is currently on a half day schedule for at least this week because he is restricted from playing sports as a precaution related to the wound and the concussion.

With that background, here is the question-

Do I take the approach that "accidents happen" and say nothing eating the missed camp time and medical bills?

or

Do i take the approach to say that I understand that accidents happen, but this was under your supervision, at your pool, next to your lifeguard, and my 7 year old was not properly supervised. I would like to compensated for my medical bills and his next summer free, in exchange for a release to not take any further action against the camp.

Generally speaking I am happy with his camp, and would like him to return so i don't want to burn any bridges, but that said I don't want to be taken advantage of. FWIW I am an attorney and the camp knows that.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Was the accident due to negligence on the part of the counselors, or just a kid being a kid? Sounds like the latter to me.

 
how much are you out of pocket for the medical bills? Seems reasonable to ask them to cover that as well as a refund for what he missed.

 
Not sure I understand what the first half of this sentence has to do with anything...it implies to me that you think this had something to do with the accident but I'm not sure what that would be.

Seeing as how there were no other campers in his swim group and only the lifeguard in the pool, he turned so that his back was facing the pool
I'm also not sure why you feel he wasn't properly supervised. Not saying he wasn't, but can't really tell from the details provided. There was a lifeguard on duty. I don't know how a lifeguard would be guaranteed to stop a kid from doing what your son did anyway. Were his counselors present? If so, I'm not sure where they went wrong there either.

 
Was the accident due to negligence on the part of the counselors, or just a kid being a kid? Sounds like the latter to me.
That's the question. Was it a kid being a kid, or should the lifeguard standing next to him be telling him that he should not be doing what he was doing. Arguably the level of supervision and duty of care should be higher for a 7 year old than if the lifeguard was watching a 14 year old, for example.

 
Little kids tend to get hurt, and I'm having a hard time seeing what the lifeguard did wrong here (assuming that jumping into the pool is okay).

 
Not sure I understand what the first half of this sentence has to do with anything...it implies to me that you think this had something to do with the accident but I'm not sure what that would be.

Seeing as how there were no other campers in his swim group and only the lifeguard in the pool, he turned so that his back was facing the pool
I'm also not sure why you feel he wasn't properly supervised. Not saying he wasn't, but can't really tell from the details provided. There was a lifeguard on duty. I don't know how a lifeguard would be guaranteed to stop a kid from doing what your son did anyway. Were his counselors present? If so, I'm not sure where they went wrong there either.
FWIW, we spoke to one of the counselors after he got hurt.

Prior to him getting hurt the camp said that non-pool counselors were permitted to sit by the pool deck and watch the kids, whereas after the injury, they were required to be in the pool. I know that remedial measures do not establish liability, but they can show that other more careful measures were available.

 
Not sure I understand what the first half of this sentence has to do with anything...it implies to me that you think this had something to do with the accident but I'm not sure what that would be.

Seeing as how there were no other campers in his swim group and only the lifeguard in the pool, he turned so that his back was facing the pool
I'm also not sure why you feel he wasn't properly supervised. Not saying he wasn't, but can't really tell from the details provided. There was a lifeguard on duty. I don't know how a lifeguard would be guaranteed to stop a kid from doing what your son did anyway. Were his counselors present? If so, I'm not sure where they went wrong there either.
FWIW, we spoke to one of the counselors after he got hurt.

Prior to him getting hurt the camp said that non-pool counselors were permitted to sit by the pool deck and watch the kids, whereas after the injury, they were required to be in the pool. I know that remedial measures do not establish liability, but they can show that other more careful measures were available.
just answer the question about the language of the waiver you signed. there is zero chance you didn't sign one.

 
Would have to look into the waiver issue. As a lawyer who doesn't practice in this area, certainly a good question.

 
:lmao: At going on a message board looking for advice on how to make money from this situation before reading any waivers you previously signed.

 
You want them to admit their supervision was not very good BUT you want your kid to return their next summer for free? Either you think the camp is unsafe or you don't. That makes it sound like you care more about saving a few bucks than the health of your child.

 
I was a lifeguard for about 8 years back in the day. Not sure how you stop a kid from doing a reverse cannonball while they're in the middle of it. After they do something like that you tell them they can't do it again... but I wasn't, and I doubt this lifeguard was, capable of precognition.

 
Not sure I understand what the first half of this sentence has to do with anything...it implies to me that you think this had something to do with the accident but I'm not sure what that would be.

Seeing as how there were no other campers in his swim group and only the lifeguard in the pool, he turned so that his back was facing the pool
I'm also not sure why you feel he wasn't properly supervised. Not saying he wasn't, but can't really tell from the details provided. There was a lifeguard on duty. I don't know how a lifeguard would be guaranteed to stop a kid from doing what your son did anyway. Were his counselors present? If so, I'm not sure where they went wrong there either.
FWIW, we spoke to one of the counselors after he got hurt.

Prior to him getting hurt the camp said that non-pool counselors were permitted to sit by the pool deck and watch the kids, whereas after the injury, they were required to be in the pool. I know that remedial measures do not establish liability, but they can show that other more careful measures were available.
I worked as a camp counselor for a bunch of years. Being in the pool wouldn't have stopped your son from doing a reverse cannonball off the edge if that's what he wanted to do. That's where I think the issue is. I think negligence would come into play if the counselors had lost track of your kid and he ran into an unsupervised pool area through a gate that wasn't properly locked.

 
Was the accident due to negligence on the part of the counselors, or just a kid being a kid? Sounds like the latter to me.
That's the question. Was it a kid being a kid, or should the lifeguard standing next to him be telling him that he should not be doing what he was doing. Arguably the level of supervision and duty of care should be higher for a 7 year old than if the lifeguard was watching a 14 year old, for example.
You need to flesh this out more. Were kids not allowed to jump in the pool?

 
This is why I come here, for the reality check. I am not looking to sue, and in general, am happy with the camp. I was merely asking if seeking compensation for his missed days and medical bills was unreasonable.

 
Was the accident due to negligence on the part of the counselors, or just a kid being a kid? Sounds like the latter to me.
That's the question. Was it a kid being a kid, or should the lifeguard standing next to him be telling him that he should not be doing what he was doing. Arguably the level of supervision and duty of care should be higher for a 7 year old than if the lifeguard was watching a 14 year old, for example.
You expect a pool to have the same number of lifeguards as young kids, with each guard standing next to a kid at a pool monitoring their every move and reading their thoughts of what they are about to do?That does not make a lot of sense to me. Since this appears to me to be well beyond what most pools provide, I think it is up to the parent to inquire a head of time to see if this extreme level of supervision was available before sending your kid.

Or you could just say it was a kid being a kid and be done with it.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
For what it is worth, the following is the law of the State of NY, where I am from-

§ 5-326. Agreements exempting pools, gymnasiums, places of public amusement or recreation and similar establishments from liability for negligence void and unenforceable. Every covenant, agreement or understanding in or in connection with, or collateral to, any contract, membership application, ticket of admission or similar writing, entered into between the owner or operator of any pool, gymnasium, place of amusement or recreation, or similar establishment and the user of such facilities, pursuant to which such owner or operator receives a fee or other compensation for the use of such facilities, which exempts the said owner or operator from liability for damages caused by or resulting from the negligence of the owner, operator or person in charge of such establishment, or their agents, servants or employees, shall be deemed to be void as against public policy and wholly unenforceable.

IF I signed I waiver, which I would have to check, i don't know that it would be enforceable under this statute.

 
Not sure I understand what the first half of this sentence has to do with anything...it implies to me that you think this had something to do with the accident but I'm not sure what that would be.

Seeing as how there were no other campers in his swim group and only the lifeguard in the pool, he turned so that his back was facing the pool
I'm also not sure why you feel he wasn't properly supervised. Not saying he wasn't, but can't really tell from the details provided. There was a lifeguard on duty. I don't know how a lifeguard would be guaranteed to stop a kid from doing what your son did anyway. Were his counselors present? If so, I'm not sure where they went wrong there either.
FWIW, we spoke to one of the counselors after he got hurt.

Prior to him getting hurt the camp said that non-pool counselors were permitted to sit by the pool deck and watch the kids, whereas after the injury, they were required to be in the pool. I know that remedial measures do not establish liability, but they can show that other more careful measures were available.
I might not be understanding the logistics, but what difference would it have made if there were counselors in the pool when your son jumped?

 
Already been said by others that it's part of having a kid.

In all honesty, what would you have expected someone to do? Jump toward him while he's mid jump and swoop him away from the ledge?

 
For what it is worth, the following is the law of the State of NY, where I am from-

§ 5-326. Agreements exempting pools, gymnasiums, places of public amusement or recreation and similar establishments from liability for negligence void and unenforceable. Every covenant, agreement or understanding in or in connection with, or collateral to, any contract, membership application, ticket of admission or similar writing, entered into between the owner or operator of any pool, gymnasium, place of amusement or recreation, or similar establishment and the user of such facilities, pursuant to which such owner or operator receives a fee or other compensation for the use of such facilities, which exempts the said owner or operator from liability for damages caused by or resulting from the negligence of the owner, operator or person in charge of such establishment, or their agents, servants or employees, shall be deemed to be void as against public policy and wholly unenforceable.

IF I signed I waiver, which I would have to check, i don't know that it would be enforceable under this statute.
but only if you prove negligence, correct?

 
Not sure I understand what the first half of this sentence has to do with anything...it implies to me that you think this had something to do with the accident but I'm not sure what that would be.

Seeing as how there were no other campers in his swim group and only the lifeguard in the pool, he turned so that his back was facing the pool
I'm also not sure why you feel he wasn't properly supervised. Not saying he wasn't, but can't really tell from the details provided. There was a lifeguard on duty. I don't know how a lifeguard would be guaranteed to stop a kid from doing what your son did anyway. Were his counselors present? If so, I'm not sure where they went wrong there either.
FWIW, we spoke to one of the counselors after he got hurt.

Prior to him getting hurt the camp said that non-pool counselors were permitted to sit by the pool deck and watch the kids, whereas after the injury, they were required to be in the pool. I know that remedial measures do not establish liability, but they can show that other more careful measures were available.
I might not be understanding the logistics, but what difference would it have made if there were counselors in the pool when your son jumped?
Potentially-" Hey, Ned Jr. What the hell are you doing attempting to jump into the pool backwards" is easier to do from in the pool than 10 feet away.

 
IF I signed I waiver, which I would have to check, i don't know that it would be enforceable under this statute.
No offense, but of any profession, shouldn't you understand how important it is to know exactly what documents you are signing your name to?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
For what it is worth, the following is the law of the State of NY, where I am from-

§ 5-326. Agreements exempting pools, gymnasiums, places of public amusement or recreation and similar establishments from liability for negligence void and unenforceable. Every covenant, agreement or understanding in or in connection with, or collateral to, any contract, membership application, ticket of admission or similar writing, entered into between the owner or operator of any pool, gymnasium, place of amusement or recreation, or similar establishment and the user of such facilities, pursuant to which such owner or operator receives a fee or other compensation for the use of such facilities, which exempts the said owner or operator from liability for damages caused by or resulting from the negligence of the owner, operator or person in charge of such establishment, or their agents, servants or employees, shall be deemed to be void as against public policy and wholly unenforceable.

IF I signed I waiver, which I would have to check, i don't know that it would be enforceable under this statute.
but only if you prove negligence, correct?
Obviously, but everyone here was implying that the execution of a waiver would absolve the camp of liability in the face of negligence. Based on this law, i am merely stating that such a waiver, for a child, might be worthless.

 
Not sure I understand what the first half of this sentence has to do with anything...it implies to me that you think this had something to do with the accident but I'm not sure what that would be.

Seeing as how there were no other campers in his swim group and only the lifeguard in the pool, he turned so that his back was facing the pool
I'm also not sure why you feel he wasn't properly supervised. Not saying he wasn't, but can't really tell from the details provided. There was a lifeguard on duty. I don't know how a lifeguard would be guaranteed to stop a kid from doing what your son did anyway. Were his counselors present? If so, I'm not sure where they went wrong there either.
FWIW, we spoke to one of the counselors after he got hurt.

Prior to him getting hurt the camp said that non-pool counselors were permitted to sit by the pool deck and watch the kids, whereas after the injury, they were required to be in the pool. I know that remedial measures do not establish liability, but they can show that other more careful measures were available.
I might not be understanding the logistics, but what difference would it have made if there were counselors in the pool when your son jumped?
Potentially-" Hey, Ned Jr. What the hell are you doing attempting to jump into the pool backwards" is easier to do from in the pool than 10 feet away.
You need to understand that by the time the word "Hey" is out of the lifeguard's mouth, your kid has already hit his head on the wall.

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top