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Damien Wiliams - RB - Oklahoma

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28 minutes ago, -jb- said:

😮

 Dude went for $60 out of 500 in my recent dynasty auction draft. That’s the same price that Bell went for. :doh: 

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Rotoworld take:

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Speaking Thursday, coach Andy Reid replied, "We'll do that here," when asked if he'll use a RB-by-committee approach this season.

"I did a little bit of that back when I was in Philadelphia," Reid said. " Kind of a running back by committee deal and we had some success with it. We’ll do that here. ... They all have their strengths and we’ll try to exploit their strengths there." Reid mentioned both Damien and Darrel Williams, Carlos Hyde, and rookie Darwin Thompson all in the same breath. Damien has missed almost all of camp with a strained hamstring but returned to individual drills this week. Hyde has gotten most of the run with the ones in his absence. Damien was a legit RB1 stud down the stretch and into the playoffs last season, but his injury may have spooked Reid. Damien has never been a true workhorse outside of the second half of last season.

RELATED: 

Carlos Hyde

, Darrel Williams

, Darwin Thompson

SOURCE: Sirius XM NFL Radio

Aug 9, 2019, 12:03 PM ET

 

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i wouldnt be dropping williams down the draft board just yet. reid has said many times before he wants to get all his backs involved only to still lean on one for 66% of the work.

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23 minutes ago, iamkoza said:

i wouldnt be dropping williams down the draft board just yet. reid has said many times before he wants to get all his backs involved only to still lean on one for 66% of the work.

True, but Reid is equally maddening in his tendency to give important snaps to scrubs and gameplan away from star RBs inexplicably.  

Damien is not a star, so whether RBBC or Reid-pass-happiness, I think a lower expectation is in order.

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26 minutes ago, Arodin said:

True, but Reid is equally maddening in his tendency to give important snaps to scrubs and gameplan away from star RBs inexplicably.  

Damien is not a star, so whether RBBC or Reid-pass-happiness, I think a lower expectation is in order.

Reid rarely has had anything but scrubs or situational guys, and I don't think that's by accident.  Anyone thinking Damien is anything but an easily-replaceable part has been drinking serious Kool-Aid.

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I'll start by saying that I have Williams in my main league.

This is not a surprising development at all. At no point during any tenure in his college or professional career has Williams been a lead back with a touch dominant workload. If anything, he's been more of a complementary player, set aside the last half-dozen or so games last year. He can play and will put up points in that offense, but I think the bigger reality should be clear to all of us: the speculation that Williams was a back end RB1 was too robust. 

Instead, he will be a solid RB 2 with some nice spike weeks. I take Reid at his work and, although I expect Williams to start, the camp injury opened the door to a more convoluted backfield rotation. 

I'm disappointed in that his ceiling has been lowered significantly, but he is the starter and will likely finish between RB 16-22. 

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14 minutes ago, cobalt_27 said:

Reid rarely has had anything but scrubs or situational guys, and I don't think that's by accident.  Anyone thinking Damien is anything but an easily-replaceable part has been drinking serious Kool-Aid.

Ummmm....

Brian Westbrook

Shady McCoy

Jamaal Charles

Kareem Hunt

 

Edited by Skoo
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14 minutes ago, Skoo said:

Ummmm....

Brian Westbrook

Shady McCoy

Jamaal Charles

Kareem Hunt

 

Right, Shady, Charles, Hunt all spent a couple years each with Reid, but... 

Reid spent more years than not defined by Duce Staley, Buckhalter, Levens, Spencer Ware, Charcandrick West types.  

Williams is more relevant to the second group than the first, which is fine.  That's Reid's comfort zone.

Edited by cobalt_27
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3 minutes ago, cobalt_27 said:

Right, Shady, Charles, Hunt all spent a couple years each with Reid, but... 

Reid spent more years than not defined by Duce Staley, Buckhalter, Levens, Spencer Ware, Charcandrick West types.  

Williams is more relevant to the second group than the first, which is fine.  That's Reid's comfort zone.

I feel like much of that scrub list aren’t so much “defining Reid” as forced by injury.  Ware/West were only ever relevant due to injuries to Charles and Hunt, and likewise for Buckhalter to some extent.

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D. Williams has 73 touches to his name for 2018, 66 for 2017. you simply can't get all juiced up over this guy. he'll start the season as the #1, sure,  but that will fizzle out and one of the others will step up. 

it brings up the bigger issue: KC has the 5th toughest schedule , the single toughest schedule weeks 8-16 ( fantasy playoffs included in there). 

with the perceived lack of a quality run game that I think we're headed for in KC, do teams stack the box and force mahomes to throw more?

 

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4 minutes ago, Tanner9919 said:

D. Williams has 73 touches to his name for 2018, 66 for 2017. you simply can't get all juiced up over this guy. he'll start the season as the #1, sure,  but that will fizzle out and one of the others will step up. 

it brings up the bigger issue: KC has the 5th toughest schedule , the single toughest schedule weeks 8-16 ( fantasy playoffs included in there). 

with the perceived lack of a quality run game that I think we're headed for in KC, do teams stack the box and force mahomes to throw more?

 

they can try

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21 hours ago, Ack88 said:

 

I'm disappointed in that his ceiling has been lowered significantly, but he is the starter and will likely finish between RB 16-22. 

Maybe we wait until we actually play some games before predicting doom ?  Damien was electric last year.  I think Coach is just pissed he missed time with an injury and trying to light a fire under Damien.  This could work out great for drafting he fell to 4.06 last night when he was going in the 2nd round in many a drafts a week ago.

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2 hours ago, Dez said:

Maybe we wait until we actually play some games before predicting doom ?  Damien was electric last year.  I think Coach is just pissed he missed time with an injury and trying to light a fire under Damien.  This could work out great for drafting he fell to 4.06 last night when he was going in the 2nd round in many a drafts a week ago.

I like him a lot better at 4.06 with the handcuff of your choice at 15.06 over anywhere near the 2nd Round.

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2 hours ago, Dez said:

Maybe we wait until we actually play some games before predicting doom ?  Damien was electric last year.  I think Coach is just pissed he missed time with an injury and trying to light a fire under Damien.  This could work out great for drafting he fell to 4.06 last night when he was going in the 2nd round in many a drafts a week ago.

 

4.06 is probably where Damien should have been going all along.  Or maybe a little earlier but not end of the second round.  And you're probably right that Reid is just trying to motivate him.  No running back is going to lose their job because they missed 10 days early in camp.  Damien still looks like the best option.  He certainly fits the system better than Hyde.  We know he prospered in the system last year and that Hyde has struggled the last couple of years.  But ultimately, nothing has already been decided.  How the running backs play will determine who is the starter.  A lot times us fantasy footballers act like the coaches know for sure who will be the main running back.  Andy Reid might have no idea who will end up being his main ball carrier.

 

Edited by Don Hutson
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On 8/9/2019 at 3:19 PM, cobalt_27 said:

Reid rarely has had anything but scrubs or situational guys, and I don't think that's by accident.  Anyone thinking Damien is anything but an easily-replaceable part has been drinking serious Kool-Aid.

Westbrook, McCoy and Charles were the lead back for 65% of Reid’s coaching career. Not quite “rare”. 

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1 hour ago, Raptors409 said:

I like him a lot better at 4.06 with the handcuff of your choice at 15.06 over anywhere near the 2nd Round.

Sure why don't I just choose to get my handcuff in round 15..........well maybe there is this little thing called reality.  When Damien goes down Hyde goes up.  Hyde is now going 9th or 10th round if you want to pair him with Damien and that isn't a lock if you let him fall
 

Also that was 1 draft I seen 2 others today Damien went 3.02 and 3.04.  Maybe that 1 draft of mine everyone got scared so he fell to 4.06 no one scared in the last 2 drafts.

I am thinking 4.06 is on the side of rare not the norm but he probably isn't going in the 2nd anymore.

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16 minutes ago, Dez said:

Sure why don't I just choose to get my handcuff in round 15..........well maybe there is this little thing called reality.  When Damien goes down Hyde goes up.  Hyde is now going 9th or 10th round if you want to pair him with Damien and that isn't a lock if you let him fall
 

Also that was 1 draft I seen 2 others today Damien went 3.02 and 3.04.  Maybe that 1 draft of mine everyone got scared so he fell to 4.06 no one scared in the last 2 drafts.

I am thinking 4.06 is on the side of rare not the norm but he probably isn't going in the 2nd anymore.

Is it just me or hasn't Hyde looked very mediocre during his NFL career?  That 3.3 avg and 10 receptions look very beatable to me.   I wouldn't be very comfortable with Hyde should Williams go down.

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5 hours ago, Dez said:

Maybe we wait until we actually play some games before predicting doom ?  Damien was electric last year.  I think Coach is just pissed he missed time with an injury and trying to light a fire under Damien.  This could work out great for drafting he fell to 4.06 last night when he was going in the 2nd round in many a drafts a week ago.

Rb 16-22 is far from doom. It is a more likely assessment of where he will ultimately end up. 

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50 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

Is it just me or hasn't Hyde looked very mediocre during his NFL career?  That 3.3 avg and 10 receptions look very beatable to me.   I wouldn't be very comfortable with Hyde should Williams go down.

I think Hyde has had over 4 yards a carry every year until last year. It's a little unfair to compare Hyde in Cleveland/Jacksonville to Williams in KC and not look at their past histories before that. I don't think there would be much of an argument who was the better player before the 2018 season. Let's see what Hyde looks like on a high powered offense.

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8 hours ago, Tanner9919 said:

with the perceived lack of a quality run game that I think we're headed for in KC, do teams stack the box and force mahomes to throw more?

 

I’m missing something? If KC has a poor running game why would teams stack the box and force Mahomes to beat them? That seems like the opposite of what they would want to do?

ETA: The appeal of Williams is mostly because teams will worry more about Mahomes and also he’s involved in the passing game.

Edited by Dr. Octopus

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12 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I’m missing something? If KC has a poor running game why would teams stack the box and force Mahomes to beat them? That seems like the opposite of what they would want to do?

 

 

:brush:

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RotoWire) Williams looked sharp at Tuesday's practice, with his workload including goal-line carries, Brooke Pryor of The Kansas City Star reports

Analysis: Rookie sixth-round pick Darwin Thompson was the only other running back to get work in goal-line drills, and Brandon Kiley of 610 Sports Radio reports that Williams got the vast majority of reps with the starting offense. Williams also took the first snap at Monday's practice, stepping right in as the No. 1 back after missing two weeks with a hamstring injury. Coach Andy Reid and offensive coordinator Eric Bieniemy both made multiple offseason comments supporting Williams as their starter, with Bieniemy reinforcing the sentiment Aug. 4 when the 27-year-old was still on the shelf, per Blair Kerkhoff of the Kansas City Star. "Obviously he's the starter," Bieniemy said. "We need to make sure that Damien continues to do the things he needs to do in order to help him be ready when called upon. But right now we're not worried about him."

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I am handcuffing with Thompson not Hyde.  I believe he will be the back to own if Damien goes down.  jmo.  On the plus side it is a cheaper handcuff atm.

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16 minutes ago, The Finist said:

I am handcuffing with Thompson not Hyde.  I believe he will be the back to own if Damien goes down.  jmo.  On the plus side it is a cheaper handcuff atm.

Yeah, to me he's the one to watch out of all the back ups. 

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34 minutes ago, The Finist said:

I am handcuffing with Thompson not Hyde.  I believe he will be the back to own if Damien goes down.  jmo.  On the plus side it is a cheaper handcuff atm.

I believe that is the thing to do. 

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The Athletic's Nate Taylor left Carlos Hyde off his latest 53-man roster projection for the Chiefs.

Taylor's prediction is surely based on more than this, but his explanation in the article is mostly related to Hyde's quiet preseason opener. "Hyde can find his way back on the roster with a good performance against the Steelers," Taylor added. That's not usually how it works for a veteran like Hyde. His spot figures to be won or lost in practice. We would still guess Hyde makes it, though all signs in recent days have pointed toward Damien Williams maintaining a stranglehold on No. 1 duties.

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24 minutes ago, The Finist said:

The Athletic's Nate Taylor left Carlos Hyde off his latest 53-man roster projection for the Chiefs.

Taylor's prediction is surely based on more than this, but his explanation in the article is mostly related to Hyde's quiet preseason opener. "Hyde can find his way back on the roster with a good performance against the Steelers," Taylor added. That's not usually how it works for a veteran like Hyde. His spot figures to be won or lost in practice. We would still guess Hyde makes it, though all signs in recent days have pointed toward Damien Williams maintaining a stranglehold on No. 1 duties.

I'll eat my hat.

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On 8/13/2019 at 12:33 PM, The Finist said:

I am handcuffing with Thompson not Hyde.  I believe he will be the back to own if Damien goes down.  jmo.  On the plus side it is a cheaper handcuff atm.

What about Darrel Williams? 

My guess is he is ahead of Thompson for now at least. 

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10 hours ago, kittenmittens said:

What about Darrel Williams? 

My guess is he is ahead of Thompson for now at least. 

I am not concerned with the depth chart.  I believe Darwin will score the most fantasy points if DW fails or gets injured.  Just a gut feel.  

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I think a Chiefs beat writer mentioned that Reid thinks of Thompson as another 'Brian Westbrook'. I don't think Williams holds the #1 spot for long.he , of course, has just 73 touches  to his name from last season, and 66 the year before.now we think he's miraculously going to carry the ball 235 times and catch 50 balls? not happening. 

time to think of Thompson as a big sleeper possible championship winning player.

Edited by Tanner9919

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58 minutes ago, Tanner9919 said:

I think a Chiefs beat writer mentioned that Reid thinks of Thompson as another 'Brian Westbrook'. I don't think Williams holds the #1 spot for long.he , of course, has just 73 touches  to his name from last season, and 66 the year before.now we think he's miraculously going to carry the ball 235 times and catch 50 balls? not happening. 

time to think of Thompson as a big sleeper possible championship winning player.

DW avgd 19.2 touches a game (115 touches) with 10 TDs over his final 6 gms including playoffs.  

I agree there are big concerns as he has never been a lead back in the NFL for a season.  but if he keeps that up he wont be losing his job to a rookie anytime soon.  He will need to fail or get injured.  I think  Thompson is a great handcuff though.  I read about the Westbrook comp as well. 

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@Faust posted in the D Thompson thread thread that not only has Darwin jumped Hyde--he's getting goal line work with the 1st team offense.  Seems like  a big blow for Damien Williams he loses out on GL work.

Edited by jm192

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The worries about Hyde did not age well here as expected.

 

I think there is room for sharing in this offense. I dont see Darwin being a fulltime GL rb. 

As an owner of both id love to see one guy get the majority of work.  But even if its close to a 50/50 split I think it will be rb2 type numbers.  Which is all I was after.  RB2 plus potential big upside.  So right on track. 

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Has anyone bought Williams in dynasty? 

With his career trajectory in the doubts as a laid-back going into the season, and now Darwin Thompson’s pipe, I feel like we may be able to buy them cheaper.

 The Williams owner in my league is thin on receivers, I’m trying to work a deal with Boyd, but worried it may take Keenan Allen. I really don’t like Williams a lot for the long term. And I feel like Allen may be overpaying. 

What’s the right price to be paying for him?

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Serious Q - last RB to break out at age 27?

I guess Justin Forsett (28 turned 29 in his big year, 2014.) Anyone else come to mind?

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I sold him a week and a half ago in my dynasty auction league ($220 salary) - he was a free agent pickup and could be kept for the 2019 season at $10 or for the 2019 and 2020 seasons at $15 for each season.

In return he fetched WR D.J. Moore $16 (signed until the end of the 2022 season) and a 2020 second round rookie pick. 

I have great depth at RB in this league and going into our auction, I was light for WR depth. In half point PPR Williams was ranked at RB #13 and Moore was ranked at WR #24 so with the longer contract length and the second round rookie pick added in - it felt like a good trade. The guy who acquired Williams opted to keep him for two years at $15.

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5 hours ago, BobbyLayne said:

Serious Q - last RB to break out at age 27?

I guess Justin Forsett (28 turned 29 in his big year, 2014.) Anyone else come to mind?

Thomas Jones maybe? Priest Holmes maybe?

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5 hours ago, BobbyLayne said:

Serious Q - last RB to break out at age 27?

I guess Justin Forsett (28 turned 29 in his big year, 2014.) Anyone else come to mind?

Jones was 26 when he broke out for the Bears. I would argue that Damien Williams broke out already last season. He was 26. Will he repeat that breakout (at 27) is another question.

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The discussion with Williams May have been too focused on Williams skill and not focused enough on how good this offense is. He basically just needs to not screw it up and he should return low end rb1 value, with room for upside

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On 8/23/2019 at 5:21 PM, BobbyLayne said:

Serious Q - last RB to break out at age 27?

I guess Justin Forsett (28 turned 29 in his big year, 2014.) Anyone else come to mind?

Cedric Benson's first 1k season came when he was 27, RIP. It's not common but there have been a few. 

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7 minutes ago, foxco said:

Cedric Benson's first 1k season came when he was 27, RIP. It's not common but there have been a few. 

Was on pace to run for 980 and 997 in the two seasons prior to that which were shortened by injury

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On 8/16/2019 at 7:42 AM, The Finist said:

I am not concerned with the depth chart.  I believe Darwin will score the most fantasy points if DW fails or gets injured.  Just a gut feel.  

What's important is how Andy Reid thinks, not a gut feel.   His thoughts may very well be that Thompson would be the guy, but is that what Reid is thinking?  How is he with regards to to a 6th round rookie vs a veteran? 

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18 minutes ago, JohnnyU said:

What's important is how Andy Reid thinks, not a gut feel.   His thoughts may very well be that Thompson would be the guy, but is that what Reid is thinking?  How is he with regards to to a 6th round rookie vs a veteran? 

Exactly. 

I think Reid has told us exactly what he thinks by running Thompson out there in the preseason & keeping DWill in bubble wrap with the rest of his starters outside of game 3. 

I wouldn’t expect to see DWill in game 4 either.

historically, this is how Reid has told everyone how he intends to run his offense.

I’ll draft DWill with extreme confidence PPR.  If he gets hurt he gets hurt. Players get hurt all the time. 

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1 hour ago, JohnnyU said:

What's important is how Andy Reid thinks, not a gut feel.   His thoughts may very well be that Thompson would be the guy, but is that what Reid is thinking?  How is he with regards to to a 6th round rookie vs a veteran? 

What does Andy Reid think? 

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2 hours ago, BobbyLayne said:

Was on pace to run for 980 and 997 in the two seasons prior to that which were shortened by injury

Good point, though he was generally looked at as a bust his first few seasons. 

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6 minutes ago, foxco said:

Good point, though he was generally looked at as a bust his first few seasons. 

high expectations from a 4th overall pick 

held out most of his rookie year, few good games but people dogged him for not beating out Thomas Jones (who was actually pretty competent and had a good career)

IIRC he got hurt a LOT, it was always something 

4th pick though, you expect a guy to be a perennial Pro Bowler

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