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NFL Domestic Violence update - 6 games followed by Lifetime ban (1 Viewer)

Will be funny if the players fight this, and all the Tyrant Goodell folks come out of the woodwork.

 
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Great steps. But I'd like to read the fine print. Arrest? Conviction? Half the time the guy gets arrested and then convinces the woman to drop the case.

 
Is everyone happy now? Does everyones life feel much better? Is everyone gonna stop crying about it now?

I'm against domestic violence as much as the next guy, but people whining for the extra suspension got it, now I guess they can stop using that as reasoning for when players use drugs and get suspended for a year.

Just rule change IMO.

 
shader said:
Great steps. But I'd like to read the fine print. Arrest? Conviction? Half the time the guy gets arrested and then convinces the woman to drop the case.
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I'm not sure about across the board, but many jurisdictions these days don't allow the woman to drop the case once the state presses charges for this exact reason.
 
Stupid question, but how can this just be a new rule, I thought in the Josh Gordon thread everyone was saying, you can't just change the rules willy nilly, everything has to be collectively bargained and agreed upon by both the NFL and NFLPA. Seems odd that the NFLPA would concede a lifetime ban on anything without getting something in return?

 
False Start said:
Is everyone happy now? Does everyones life feel much better? Is everyone gonna stop crying about it now?

I'm against domestic violence as much as the next guy, but people whining for the extra suspension got it, now I guess they can stop using that as reasoning for when players use drugs and get suspended for a year.

Just rule change IMO.
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this makes 0 sense

the league did change the rule

if you are talking about the drug rules, the league cannot change them as they were collectively baragined. that'd be like the league just saying every team gets 4 franchise tags.

 
NJ said:
Stupid question, but how can this just be a new rule, I thought in the Josh Gordon thread everyone was saying, you can't just change the rules willy nilly, everything has to be collectively bargained and agreed upon by both the NFL and NFLPA. Seems odd that the NFLPA would concede a lifetime ban on anything without getting something in return?
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This is the difference between player conduct and what was agreed upon in the CBA. Two different situations and consequences.

 
i do give him credit for admitting he got it wrong, i thought he would avoid that or say "based on the policies at the time we did what was right" or some such nonsense

 
Godsbrother said:
eNdblu said:
Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter
So the Ray Rice Fallout continues with a new domestic violence policy. Six games for 1st offense, lifetime ban for 2nd.
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So why did they only give Ray Rice 2 games just a few weeks ago? Doesn't make sense to me
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Goodell said he got it wrong

ok he technically said he did not get it right

basically he made a mistake, the public let him know, they are making sure the mistake is not repeated

 
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massraider said:
Holy Christmas. Lifetime ban for 2nd offense? We gonna lose some players here, fellas.
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as someone pointed out

lifetime ban where you cvan apply for reinstatement after 1 year

Violations of the Personal Conduct Policy regarding assault, battery, domestic violence and sexual assault that involve physical force will be subject to enhanced discipline. A first offense will be subject to a suspension of six weeks without pay. Mitigating circumstances will be considered, and more severe discipline will be imposed if there are aggravating circumstances such as the presence or use of a weapon, choking, repeated striking, or when the act is committed against a pregnant woman or in the presence of a child. A second offense will result in banishment from the league; an offender may petition for reinstatement after one year but there is no assurance that the petition will be granted. These disciplinary consequences apply to all NFL personnel.

 
B-Deep said:
massraider said:
Holy Christmas. Lifetime ban for 2nd offense? We gonna lose some players here, fellas.
Click to expand...
as someone pointed out

lifetime ban where you cvan apply for reinstatement after 1 year

Violations of the Personal Conduct Policy regarding assault, battery, domestic violence and sexual assault that involve physical force will be subject to enhanced discipline. A first offense will be subject to a suspension of six weeks without pay. Mitigating circumstances will be considered, and more severe discipline will be imposed if there are aggravating circumstances such as the presence or use of a weapon, choking, repeated striking, or when the act is committed against a pregnant woman or in the presence of a child. A second offense will result in banishment from the league; an offender may petition for reinstatement after one year but there is no assurance that the petition will be granted. These disciplinary consequences apply to all NFL personnel.
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Gotcha.

Still a very big deal.

 
massraider said:
B-Deep said:
massraider said:
Holy Christmas. Lifetime ban for 2nd offense? We gonna lose some players here, fellas.
Click to expand...
as someone pointed out

lifetime ban where you cvan apply for reinstatement after 1 year

Violations of the Personal Conduct Policy regarding assault, battery, domestic violence and sexual assault that involve physical force will be subject to enhanced discipline. A first offense will be subject to a suspension of six weeks without pay. Mitigating circumstances will be considered, and more severe discipline will be imposed if there are aggravating circumstances such as the presence or use of a weapon, choking, repeated striking, or when the act is committed against a pregnant woman or in the presence of a child. A second offense will result in banishment from the league; an offender may petition for reinstatement after one year but there is no assurance that the petition will be granted. These disciplinary consequences apply to all NFL personnel.
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Gotcha.

Still a very big deal.
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yup

i give the nfl credit, this was a pretty noticeable black eye, they corrected it quickly and admitted they screwed up. not much else they could have done after the fact

 
I find it hypocritical that Josh Gordon gets a year suspension for weed/dui while Ray Rice can drag his wife around by the hair and get 2 games. Crazy.

Also think its crazy that the league doles out pain meds to players like candy but cracks down on weed like its totally illegal in every part of the US.

I'm all for DUI suspensions...innocent people get killed (Little, Stallworth, etc.) but a dude smoking a bone on his free time, especially in a State where it is legal...c'mon.

 
In my mind Goodell will forever be the man who was tough on marijuana (which nobody cared about) and soft on domestic violence (which everybody cared about). This CYA move does nothing to restore my faith in that piece of garbage.

 
The Gordon/Rice comparisons are dumb.

Not condoning what Rice did...or defending the joke of a punishment Goodell gave.

But Gordon was a multi time offender of a policy that has been known for some time.

 
Beefeaters said:
In my mind Goodell will forever be the man who was tough on marijuana (which nobody cared about) and soft on domestic violence (which everybody cared about). This CYA move does nothing to restore my faith in that piece of garbage.
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well you are choosing to ignore that the players association agreed to the penalties, which makes them as "tough on marijuana" as goodell

he's never once punished someone for weed above what the CBA said

 
sho nuff said:
The Gordon/Rice comparisons are dumb.

Not condoning what Rice did...or defending the joke of a punishment Goodell gave.

But Gordon was a multi time offender of a policy that has been known for some time.
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Agreed, but 10-20% of the audience to the comparisons was going to recognize the significant differences between the two cases. The other 80-90% was going to hear and digest that the NFL is easier on wife beating than weed smoking.

It's not about reality, but perception. And IMO, the NFL made the right call changing the domestic violence rule asap.

 
B-Deep said:
Beefeaters said:
In my mind Goodell will forever be the man who was tough on marijuana (which nobody cared about) and soft on domestic violence (which everybody cared about). This CYA move does nothing to restore my faith in that piece of garbage.
Click to expand...
well you are choosing to ignore that the players association agreed to the penalties, which makes them as "tough on marijuana" as goodell

he's never once punished someone for weed above what the CBA said
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Exactly. The outrage here is because Goodell wasn't tough enough on Rice to begin with, not that he was "too tough" on the drug policy. The substance policy is out of his control where the personal conduct is within his control and not part of the CBA.

 
Bad idea. This gives women in the men's lives too much power and incentive to lie or exaggerate. Women instigate a lot of domestic abuse; this is a typically over-emotional reaction to a horrendous beating caught on videotape.

 
rockaction said:
Bad idea. This gives women in the men's lives too much power and incentive to lie or exaggerate. Women instigate a lot of domestic abuse; this is a typically over-emotional reaction to a horrendous beating caught on videotape.
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Stephen A. Smith, is that you?

 
Braktastic said:
rockaction said:
Bad idea. This gives women in the men's lives too much power and incentive to lie or exaggerate. Women instigate a lot of domestic abuse; this is a typically over-emotional reaction to a horrendous beating caught on videotape.
Click to expand...
Stephen A. Smith, is that you?
Click to expand...
Yes, the women of the twentieth and twenty-first century are shrinking violets, innocent as pie in all instances.

*watches burning building, etc.*

 
sho nuff said:
The Gordon/Rice comparisons are dumb.

Not condoning what Rice did...or defending the joke of a punishment Goodell gave.

But Gordon was a multi time offender of a policy that has been known for some time.
Click to expand...
This. Like it or not, pot smoking has been banned forever and to get caught doing it over and over again is just plain stupid.

Good change and overdue, but let's quit castrating Goodel and the NFL over it. Domestic violence has been an in the closet problem for literally thousands of years- and is still legal throughout much of the world. Give the NFL some credit for taking the stand on it even if it's a decade (or more) slower than most would like. Compared to thousands of years, a decade is nothing.

 
LawFitz said:
sho nuff said:
The Gordon/Rice comparisons are dumb.

Not condoning what Rice did...or defending the joke of a punishment Goodell gave.

But Gordon was a multi time offender of a policy that has been known for some time.
Click to expand...
Agreed, but 10-20% of the audience to the comparisons was going to recognize the significant differences between the two cases. The other 80-90% was going to hear and digest that the NFL is easier on wife beating than weed smoking.

It's not about reality, but perception. And IMO, the NFL made the right call changing the domestic violence rule asap.
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Agree with you there. This was a change that was needed.

 
KellysHeroes said:
so is this collectively bargained?
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About to run out the door so saying this without double checking. Both this and the substance abuse policy are collectively bargained.

The substance abuse policy sets punishments and test policy explicitly, so there is not much leeway for change that won't violate what was bargained.

The personal conduct policy is not as explicit, and leaves more of the decision making on issues in the hands of the NFL. The NFL here is clarifying what is going to guide those decisions. Their actions still fall within what was collectively bargained though.

 
shader said:
Great steps. But I'd like to read the fine print. Arrest? Conviction? Half the time the guy gets arrested and then convinces the woman to drop the case.
Click to expand...
What it will amount to without video evidence is the player pays off the woman to keep the cake hole shut.

 
B-Deep said:
massraider said:
Holy Christmas. Lifetime ban for 2nd offense? We gonna lose some players here, fellas.
Click to expand...
as someone pointed outlifetime ban where you cvan apply for reinstatement after 1 year

Violations of the Personal Conduct Policy regarding assault, battery, domestic violence and sexual assault that involve physical force will be subject to enhanced discipline. A first offense will be subject to a suspension of six weeks without pay. Mitigating circumstances will be considered, and more severe discipline will be imposed if there are aggravating circumstances such as the presence or use of a weapon, choking, repeated striking, or when the act is committed against a pregnant woman or in the presence of a child. A second offense will result in banishment from the league; an offender may petition for reinstatement after one year but there is no assurance that the petition will be granted. These disciplinary consequences apply to all NFL personnel.
Click to expand...
The wording of this is a bit scary and I'm all in favor of punishing domestic violence offenders harshly. What exactly is going to constitute weather or not a guy is punished? A conviction? In light of how drastic these punishments are I would sure as heck hope so. If decisions are going to be made without a conviction this is a total disaster waiting to happen. Also, what happens to the player in question while the court proceedings are taking place? Will he be suspended until the verdict is issued? I could to on and on with questions and gray areas that are extremely problematic right now. Maybe they have all this worked out but I haven't seen it yet.

 
jurb26 said:
B-Deep said:
massraider said:
Holy Christmas. Lifetime ban for 2nd offense? We gonna lose some players here, fellas.
Click to expand...
as someone pointed outlifetime ban where you cvan apply for reinstatement after 1 year

Violations of the Personal Conduct Policy regarding assault, battery, domestic violence and sexual assault that involve physical force will be subject to enhanced discipline. A first offense will be subject to a suspension of six weeks without pay. Mitigating circumstances will be considered, and more severe discipline will be imposed if there are aggravating circumstances such as the presence or use of a weapon, choking, repeated striking, or when the act is committed against a pregnant woman or in the presence of a child. A second offense will result in banishment from the league; an offender may petition for reinstatement after one year but there is no assurance that the petition will be granted. These disciplinary consequences apply to all NFL personnel.
Click to expand...
The wording of this is a bit scary and I'm all in favor of punishing domestic violence offenders harshly. What exactly is going to constitute weather or not a guy is punished? A conviction? In light of how drastic these punishments are I would sure as heck hope so. If decisions are going to be made without a conviction this is a total disaster waiting to happen. Also, what happens to the player in question while the court proceedings are taking place? Will he be suspended until the verdict is issued?I could to on and on with questions and gray areas that are extremely problematic right now. Maybe they have all this worked out but I haven't seen it yet.
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:goodposting: they do need to tread carefully here. What if some players side chick accuses him falsely? Sometimes they player will settle to avoid controversy. Will that be a suspension?

 
rockaction said:
Braktastic said:
rockaction said:
Bad idea. This gives women in the men's lives too much power and incentive to lie or exaggerate. Women instigate a lot of domestic abuse; this is a typically over-emotional reaction to a horrendous beating caught on videotape.
Click to expand...
Stephen A. Smith, is that you?
Click to expand...
Yes, the women of the twentieth and twenty-first century are shrinking violets, innocent as pie in all instances.

*watches burning building, etc.*
Click to expand...
Date/marry better women.

 
This still overshadows a huge fault in our criminal justice system. These people should be in jail with no chance in playing. It shouldn't be on the NFL to do this

 
Bri said:
This still overshadows a huge fault in our criminal justice system. These people should be in jail with no chance in playing. It shouldn't be on the NFL to do this
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This, this, this.

The NFL breathlessly running around to (over)react to every Facebook-firestorm-du-jour is not the answer; it's primarily the legal system's job to take care of these things without any special treatment for the players.

The NFL cannot and will not be able to handle the intricacies of the legal system and cherry-picking the issues-du-jour to attempt to setup a system for them will inevitably have huge gaps that will only cause more problems.

Im all for an employer doing whatever it wants re any policy for/against just about any behavior, but the NFL's surgical approach to this only (1) invites more meddling by other groups when the next issue pops up and, (2) is doomed to failures because the NFL is effectively setting up its own little legal system that will not be complete enough to administer justice without various failures.

 
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