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Asiata vs. McKinnon (2 Viewers)

MaxThreshold said:
SameSongNDance said:
Mr. Retukes said:
TheFanatic said:
montana_grizzly_bears said:
More importantly for FF is that it's 9-0 in terms of points for Asiata to Mckinnon.
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That's a myopic view of it. If Asiata can't run he's not going to stay on the field in the NFL. If he's not on the field in the NFL, he's not going to score any of those FF points.
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This is an example of a fantasy football logical fallacy.

You think that because Asiata is mediocre, it will lead to Asiata being benched, which will lead to McKinnon taking his place, which will lead to McKinnon scoring points.
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Yeah, it totally ignores the fact that Asiata being the superior pass protector will likely keep him on the field regardless.
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i'm guessing theFanatic lost out on Asiata and had to settle for McKinnon on the waiver wire.
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Or worse, thought he was smarter than NFL coaches and picked up McKinnon over Asiata.

 
Cassel was sacked a ton this vs. NE and I think it's going to be important to re-watch the game to see if any of the sacks can be directly attributed to either Asiata or McKinnon.

 
SameSongNDance said:
Cassel was sacked a ton this vs. NE and I think it's going to be important to re-watch the game to see if any of the sacks can be directly attributed to either Asiata or McKinnon.
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I doubt it --- hightower and chandler each had a couple off the edge, but I think there was one where arrington snuck through on a blitz that somebody might've missed.

that's just from memory, though.

I don't think it's any big mystery that asiata is currently the guy, but my concern as a peterson owner is more the long term.

hopefully we'll get some info this week on peterson's status.

 
Kool-Aid Larry said:
SameSongNDance said:
Cassel was sacked a ton this vs. NE and I think it's going to be important to re-watch the game to see if any of the sacks can be directly attributed to either Asiata or McKinnon.
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I doubt it --- hightower and chandler each had a couple off the edge, but I think there was one where arrington snuck through on a blitz that somebody might've missed.

that's just from memory, though.

I don't think it's any big mystery that asiata is currently the guy, but my concern as a peterson owner is more the long term.

hopefully we'll get some info this week on peterson's status.
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Yeah. What we saw from Asiata today is likely his realistic PPR ceiling save the unpredictable multi touchdown game. From what I saw, his hands were softer than I expected and Cassel looked to checkdown to him quite often (I'm going to assume he had ~7 targets on the day). What I'm most afraid of is him simply deviating closer to the mean in match-ups moving forward (especially if McKinnon sees a non-zero uptick in snaps/touches), in which case we could see TRich type ugly stat lines if he doesn't punch in a TD. Asiata is lucky there isn't a Bradshaw type in this backfield, as we all know Bradshaw is a top notch pass protector and can make plays when healthy. As it stands however, there's simply no one else the coaching staff trusts in passing situations and pass pro is obviously pivotal to every offense.


Matt Vensel ✔ @mattvensel
FollowMatt Asiata received unsolicited praise in camp from the coaching staff, who seemingly trust him in all situations, including pass pro.
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Here's a quote from a very recent bleacherreport article..

This leads into the second point, which is that Minnesota has no other options right now. McKinnon is an exciting athletic talent who could become something down the road. He doesn’t look ready right now, especially with pass-blocking concepts. There was one play in particular on Sunday where McKinnon got spun in a circle by his own indecisiveness, leaving Cassel a sitting duck in the pocket.

Even when McKinnon has gotten the ball in his hands, he’s failed to flash the kind of athleticism that his timed numbers suggest he has. There’s no doubt he possesses more high-end potential than Asiata, but the lumps Minnesota might have to take in order to get there are daunting.
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So yeah, assuming AP doesn't play in the immediate future (far from a sure thing), Asiata could still make for a good RB2/flex play but you'll need to mull over the match-up and keep close tabs on the situation. I actually think the best case scenario for Asiata are game states like the ones we saw vs. NE, as he can buoy his floor with receptions.


 
Also, as an aside..

I know Asiata isn't near half the athlete/RB that AP is, but you have to find it funny that Asiata's 25 yard reception is longer than any reception AP has had over the past 3 years. That TD also ties AP's career high receiving TDs in a season. Maybe NE simply didn't think receiving was even remotely apart of Asiata's repertoire, and it caught them by surprise, but yeah, I find it funny. He's at least a much better receiver than he's likely ever been given credit for.

 
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in the norv turner offense you're going to catch balls, which is why I took peterson 1.01 and why this situation is so irritating.

that td was pure scheme, with norv encouraging a coverage lapse by the pats d getting them to bite on patterson.

#######g mckinnon and asiata had 10 targets between them, and meanwhile peterson is sitting there on my bench.

 
Kool-Aid Larry said:
in the norv turner offense you're going to catch balls, which is why I took peterson 1.01 and why this situation is so irritating.

that td was pure scheme, with norv encouraging a coverage lapse by the pats d getting them to bite on patterson.

#######g mckinnon and asiata had 10 targets between them, and meanwhile peterson is sitting there on my bench.
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Could have been worse, you could have had no warning and had him in your starting lineup.

 
MaxThreshold said:
SameSongNDance said:
Mr. Retukes said:
TheFanatic said:
montana_grizzly_bears said:
More importantly for FF is that it's 9-0 in terms of points for Asiata to Mckinnon.
Click to expand...
That's a myopic view of it. If Asiata can't run he's not going to stay on the field in the NFL. If he's not on the field in the NFL, he's not going to score any of those FF points.
Click to expand...
This is an example of a fantasy football logical fallacy.

You think that because Asiata is mediocre, it will lead to Asiata being benched, which will lead to McKinnon taking his place, which will lead to McKinnon scoring points.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it totally ignores the fact that Asiata being the superior pass protector will likely keep him on the field regardless.
Click to expand...
i'm guessing theFanatic lost out on Asiata and had to settle for McKinnon on the waiver wire.
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Actually, I owned both in two leagues. One in one league and the other in the other league.

Pass blocking can be taught. Running the ball cannot. Asiata looked good catching the ball and in pass pro, but looked terrible running the ball. Asiata looked like a 3rd down back, not a three down back.

McKinnon will get drilled on pass blocking every day until Asiata runs better or McKinnon has it down and can run and block.

 
TheFanatic said:
Pass blocking can be taught. Running the ball cannot. Asiata looked good catching the ball and in pass pro, but looked terrible running the ball. Asiata looked like a 3rd down back, not a three down back.
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Other than the 25 yard TD where the defense completely lost track of him (busted coverage), he was 5 for 25 yards in the receiving game. Fairly sure that he's a guy who can block, but will ultimately be ineffective with the ball in his hands.

 
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wdcrob said:
TheFanatic said:
Pass blocking can be taught. Running the ball cannot. Asiata looked good catching the ball and in pass pro, but looked terrible running the ball. Asiata looked like a 3rd down back, not a three down back.
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Other than the 25 yard TD where the defense completely lost track of him (busted coverage), he was 5 for 25 yards in the receiving game. Fairly sure that he's a guy who can block, but will ultimately be ineffective with the ball in his hands.
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You got that from one game?

 
All I can say is that Asiata filled in pretty well last year when called upon. He seemed to do a decent job yesterday. I really don't know how this will shake out long term but in the short term I would easily take Asiata over McKinnon.

 
TheFanatic said:
Kool-Aid Larry said:
Jerick McKinnon played on 21-of-66 snaps in Sunday's loss to the Patriots.
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that's actually better than I expected
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And only a couple touches so the rest were pass blocking. If that doesn't show that the kid is getting a crash course, I don't know what else to tell you.
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Anyone know how many of the six sacks happened with McKinnon in the game? Not that he necessarily was responsible, of course.

 
Avery said:
wdcrob said:
TheFanatic said:
Pass blocking can be taught. Running the ball cannot. Asiata looked good catching the ball and in pass pro, but looked terrible running the ball. Asiata looked like a 3rd down back, not a three down back.
Click to expand...
Other than the 25 yard TD where the defense completely lost track of him (busted coverage), he was 5 for 25 yards in the receiving game. Fairly sure that he's a guy who can block, but will ultimately be ineffective with the ball in his hands.
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You got that from one game?
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No, I got that from the fact that his career Y/C (3.6) and Y/R (5.7) are exactly what you'd expect to see from a guy with his pre-draft profile who also went undrafted. Yesterday just looked like more of the same.

I'm not saying he's not a useful NFL player, just that he's almost certainly not good enough to hold onto a starting job for very long even if Peterson is gone. Too many guys floating around that are better (including one on his own team, probably).

 
End thread? http://www.vikings.com/news/article-1/Statement-From-The-Vikings-Regarding-Adrian-Peterson/ffba4f28-6620-44b5-b707-241c1ea783b2?campaign=social_20140915_31638756

Minnesota Vikings running back Adrian Peterson will fully participate in this week’s practices and meetings and is expected to play this Sunday in New Orleans.

The following statement is from Vikings Owners Zygi Wilf and Mark Wilf:

Today’s decision was made after significant thought, discussion and consideration. As evidenced by our decision to deactivate Adrian from yesterday’s game, this is clearly a very important issue. On Friday, we felt it was in the best interests of the organization to step back, evaluate the situation, and not rush to judgment given the seriousness of this matter. At that time, we made the decision that we felt was best for the Vikings and all parties involved.

To be clear, we take very seriously any matter that involves the welfare of a child. At this time, however, we believe this is a matter of due process and we should allow the legal system to proceed so we can come to the most effective conclusions and then determine the appropriate course of action. This is a difficult path to navigate, and our focus is on doing the right thing. Currently we believe we are at a juncture where the most appropriate next step is to allow the judicial process to move forward.

We will continue to monitor the situation closely and support Adrian’s fulfillment of his legal responsibilities throughout this process.
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It was a fun ride fellas. Won a match because of Asiata in one league, lost a match to a guy who grabbed Asiata in another. Until next time..

 
Here's a fun Asiata story:

I was decimated by injuries to my rbs yesterday. Lost Mathews, Moreno, and Ingram. Picked up. Khiry on Friday and played him in my flex against the Peterson owner.

The Peterson owner also owns khiry robsinson.

Just now after the news broke of another investigation into Peterson possibly abusing another child in June.

I offered Asiata for khiry and he accepted. So basically I turned a talent lacking plodding waiver wire pickup for a pretty good Rb that was drafted.

 
rickyg said:
Here's a fun Asiata story:

I was decimated by injuries to my rbs yesterday. Lost Mathews, Moreno, and Ingram. Picked up. Khiry on Friday and played him in my flex against the Peterson owner.

The Peterson owner also owns khiry robsinson.

Just now after the news broke of another investigation into Peterson possibly abusing another child in June.

I offered Asiata for khiry and he accepted. So basically I turned a talent lacking plodding waiver wire pickup for a pretty good Rb that was drafted.
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Honestly, that's what I call a cool story bro. Such a riveting tale, I honestly copy and pasted it to word, saved on my hard drive, backed it up on a jump drive, drove to the bank, put the jump drive in the safe deposit box, and will leave it there until my kids turn about 12 (when they can actually state their age, and ask what it is I'm showing them), when I will pick it up, put it in an old USB drive reader and relay this cool story to them and tell them, "kids, this is what a cool story should look and sound like...not like the stories your generation tells."

 
tone1oc said:
rickyg said:
Here's a fun Asiata story:

I was decimated by injuries to my rbs yesterday. Lost Mathews, Moreno, and Ingram. Picked up. Khiry on Friday and played him in my flex against the Peterson owner.

The Peterson owner also owns khiry robsinson.

Just now after the news broke of another investigation into Peterson possibly abusing another child in June.

I offered Asiata for khiry and he accepted. So basically I turned a talent lacking plodding waiver wire pickup for a pretty good Rb that was drafted.
Click to expand...
Honestly, that's what I call a cool story bro. Such a riveting tale, I honestly copy and pasted it to word, saved on my hard drive, backed it up on a jump drive, drove to the bank, put the jump drive in the safe deposit box, and will leave it there until my kids turn about 12 (when they can actually state their age, and ask what it is I'm showing them), when I will pick it up, put it in an old USB drive reader and relay this cool story to them and tell them, "kids, this is what a cool story should look and sound like...not like the stories your generation tells."
Click to expand...
Yeah, I figured if get a "cool story bro" on that one. I must say I appreciate the effort you put into that one!

 
rickyg said:
Here's a fun Asiata story:

I was decimated by injuries to my rbs yesterday. Lost Mathews, Moreno, and Ingram. Picked up. Khiry on Friday and played him in my flex against the Peterson owner.

The Peterson owner also owns khiry robsinson.

Just now after the news broke of another investigation into Peterson possibly abusing another child in June.

I offered Asiata for khiry and he accepted. So basically I turned a talent lacking plodding waiver wire pickup for a pretty good Rb that was drafted.
Click to expand...
you got some odd rules in that league

 
Yes. We're also waiting to see the Vikings' next step. Their first step was to stand in front of a sponsor logo and give a nonsensical defense a child abuser, which caused the sponsor to withdraw support the same day.

 
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This whole situation is still up in the air. If more sponsors start threatening to boycott the NFL they will have to step in and do something. Certainly things could also settle down a bit and people could buy into the due process idea as well.

 
Johnny Blood said:
Yes. We're also waiting to see the Vikings' next step. Their first step was to stand in front of a sponsor logo and give a nonsensical defense a child abuser, which caused the sponsor to withdraw support the same day.
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They didn't quite withdraw support. I believe the word I heard was "suspend" support. Basically they are reacting to the SoMe outcry and all the faux outrage by saying they are suspending their support. Does that mean they skip a couple payments and the Vikings cover some signs? I have no idea. Maybe nothing changes other than they said they suspended their support. Basically, they left the door open to jump right back in if this thing blows over.

 
Paid about 30% for Asiata so I'm holding for as long as possible regardless of whether AP plays. I think a long deactivation and/or a league suspension is right around the corner.

 
They also mentioned on ESPN that PepsiCo was threatening to withdrawal sponsorship if the NFL didn't take some type of action. It's only a matter of time really.

 
Haven't followed this mess, just need to know if I can let go of McKinnon tonight (in redraft) because I need the space. However, from the limited info I have, my gut says to keep him because the Vikes are going to reverse course yet again, after all the pressure.

Thoughts on McKinnon going forward? Thanks.

 
I can see AP missing another couple of weeks, but not long term.

I just don't think McKinnon will be startable in any format during that span, so unless you've got room to stash him or noone worthy on the wire, he's a drop.

 
I'll say it again, I want to see McKinnon in a super-Sproles role. Whether or not Norvous can make that happen is very questionable.

Just to clarify, I am talking about a longterm RB, not immediate handcuff. I too believe Peterson's days are numbered in Minny.

With both McKinnon and Patterson, Minny has a totally unique positional advantage to exploit defenses. It'll be very sad if they do not take advantage.

 
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Kool-Aid Larry said:
rickyg said:
Here's a fun Asiata story:

I was decimated by injuries to my rbs yesterday. Lost Mathews, Moreno, and Ingram. Picked up. Khiry on Friday and played him in my flex against the Peterson owner.

The Peterson owner also owns khiry robsinson.

Just now after the news broke of another investigation into Peterson possibly abusing another child in June.

I offered Asiata for khiry and he accepted. So basically I turned a talent lacking plodding waiver wire pickup for a pretty good Rb that was drafted.
Click to expand...
you got some odd rules in that league
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Is this one of those leagues where everyone gets to own Khiry? Because THAT is a cool angle and something I would like to document for future generations.

 
The Vikings announced early Wednesday morning that they're placing Adrian Peterson on the Exempt/Commissioner's Permission list, requiring the running back to stay away from the team until further notice.
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Everyone can now go back to focusing their attention to this backfield. I'm going to quote myself..

What we saw from Asiata today is likely his realistic PPR ceiling save the unpredictable multi touchdown game. From what I saw, his hands were softer than I expected and Cassel looked to checkdown to him quite often (I'm going to assume he had ~7 targets on the day). What I'm most afraid of is him simply deviating closer to the mean in match-ups moving forward (especially if McKinnon sees a non-zero uptick in snaps/touches), in which case we could see TRich type ugly stat lines if he doesn't punch in a TD. Asiata is lucky there isn't a Bradshaw type in this backfield, as we all know Bradshaw is a top notch pass protector and can make plays when healthy. As it stands however, there's simply no one else the coaching staff trusts in passing situations and pass pro is obviously pivotal to every offense.
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MIN travels to NO this week who are 10 point favorites (line is probably going to move some with AP out). Brees is pissed and is likely going to unleash an aerial assault upon MIN the likes of which has never been seen before. Oddly enough, this is the place where I feel most comfortable starting Asiata. If/when MIN goes down a couple scores, they'll be forced to use Asiata in pass pro. Inevitably, this will also lead to some receptions.

BTW, we can't rule out free agency. I'm not quite sure who is available but it's most definitely possible that MIN picks someone up.

 
i got asiata in 2 leagues. hes on my bench behind gore and leveon at rb and niles paul at flex (te premium.) but if reed plays, i may flex terrance west over him.

im starting him in the other league over pierce and gerhart.

i think hes a pretty decent ppr play going forward. 15 carries and 4 catches is highly likely.

 
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