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Lesean McCoy? How concerned are we?

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2 hours ago, JohnnyU said:

I seem to remember Ray Carruth being even more stupid.  I definitely could see McCoy hiring someone to do this.  It will come out in the wash eventually, whether true or false.

true

sometimes what seems impossible does happen, like OJ Simpson

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37 minutes ago, Stealthycat said:

true

sometimes what seems impossible does happen, like OJ Simpson

Or Aaron Hernandez. I offered what I thought would be a late first for him when the news first broke in a TE premium league, thought no way could he be that dumb.

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1 hour ago, Stuart Ullman said:

Dyno. Pulled the trigger on a deal for him last night.

What did he cost?  His value had already been dropping quite a bit before this new nonsense.

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2 minutes ago, tangfoot said:

What did he cost?  His value had already been dropping quite a bit before this new nonsense.

It's a contract dynasty so keep that in mind.

McCoy (1 year contract)
Tannehil (1 year contract)

for

Cam Newton (TBD 1-4 contract)
Devin Funchess (1 year contract)

 

I offered Newton for McCoy straight up and this is what he countered with.

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36 minutes ago, pantherclub said:

guys he aint playing this year

What makes you believe that? 

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20 hours ago, Stuart Ullman said:

I'm thinking of trading for him.

I picked up Ivory off of waivers a month ago (I must be psychic) and sent some feelers out to the McCoy owner a few days ago with either me sending Ivory or me getting McCoy. No response at all.

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Just now, Buckna said:

I picked up Ivory off of waivers a month ago (I must be psychic) and sent some feelers out to the McCoy owner a few days ago with either me sending Ivory or me getting McCoy. No response at all.

I traded for McCoy and am now trying to acquire Ivory as the handcuff. Price is probably going to be stupid to get him though.

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1 hour ago, menobrown said:

Or Aaron Hernandez. I offered what I thought would be a late first for him when the news first broke in a TE premium league, thought no way could he be that dumb.

another good example

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Here's my perspective on it for Dynasty owners. I understand there's a chance he doesn't play this year or misses a few games.

But my Dynasty team is average at best with a glaring hole at RB. If he plays, my team will make the playoffs. I have confidence in that. If he doesn't play, my team will disappoint and I'll have a very low pick in next year's draft.

His career wouldn't be over either. Based on the discount I received in trading for him now with these problems looming, I can probably get as much back as I spent - if not more come this time next year.

I like the risk - reward in my particular situation. For redraft, I'm not sure but assuming you can get Ivory on the cheap it seems like he could be a bargain there too. But I'm sure we will have more clarity by the time we start drafting teams in redraft.

Edited by Stuart Ullman
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On 7/16/2018 at 2:18 PM, bokbok said:

It won't matter.  The NFL will come down hard on him, no matter what charges are dismissed.  They made an example out of Zeke, and they won't back down.

There are no charges to dismiss.  There isn't even an accusation right now.  

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8 minutes ago, matuski said:

There are no charges to dismiss.  There isn't even an accusation right now.  

um, there is a huge accusation out there now and police are in the middle of an investigation 

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4 minutes ago, pantherclub said:

um, there is a huge accusation out there now and police are in the middle of an investigation 

I see speculation, where is the accusation?

The friend deleted and the lawyer backed away from linking McCoy.

There is a crime, that is what they are investigating.

Edited by matuski
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3 minutes ago, matuski said:

I see speculation, where is the accusation?

The friend deleted and the lawyer backed away from linking McCoy.

There is a crime, that is what they are investigating.

and you think goodell forgot about that?

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1 minute ago, pantherclub said:

and you think goodell forgot about that?

Forgot that the lawyer for the victim is not linking McCoy to the crime?

You said there was a huge accusation.. where is it?

Edited by matuski
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10 minutes ago, pantherclub said:

um, there is a huge accusation out there now and police are in the middle of an investigation 

The accusation was hearsay.  And it isn't being backed by the party or most of the evidence in regards to the whole of the statement.

Maybe he is suspended.  Maybe not.  There is not enough information made public for us to make that determination.  I would think if there was anything damning the punishment would have been (and will be) swift.  So, for now, unless there is more, I think he is going to play. 

 

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5 minutes ago, matuski said:

Forgot that the lawyer for the victim is not linking McCoy to the crime?

You said there was a huge accusation.. where is it?

the friend accused him of being involved and gave examples as to why goodell isnt going to simply forget that

Edited by pantherclub

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Folks, the only reason the lawyer had the client back away from linking McCoy to the incident was that Shady could potentially sue for slander. 

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Just now, pantherclub said:

the friend accused him of being involved and gave examples as to why goodell isnt going to simply forget that

There was (no longer) an IG post.  There is (still) documented and recorded police reports and calls all going directly in the face of the IG post (that no longer exists) that was disowned by the victim's lawyer.

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1 minute ago, matuski said:

There was (no longer) an IG post.  There is (still) documented and recorded police reports and calls all going directly in the face of the IG post (that no longer exists) that was disowned by the victim's lawyer.

its still an accusation regardless if she deleted it

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Just now, pantherclub said:

its still an accusation regardless if she deleted it

Beyond it being deleted, the victim has specifically backed away from it.

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3 minutes ago, higgins said:

Folks, the only reason the lawyer had the client back away from linking McCoy to the incident was that Shady could potentially sue for slander. 

And THAT is the same reason he will play. 

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Just now, matuski said:

That "accusation" (IG post) no longer exists.  Killin me smalls.

dude that doesnt matter things dont exist in a vacuum.  do you think the friend is going to backtrack when interviewed by the cops?

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Just now, pantherclub said:

dude that doesnt matter things dont exist in a vacuum.  do you think the friend is going to backtrack when interviewed by the cops?

For about the 5th time now.

The VICTIM has backtracked from it.  Already happened.

Edited by matuski
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1 minute ago, matuski said:

Beyond it being deleted, the victim has specifically backed away from it.

And the original accusation is inadmissible hearsay

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1 minute ago, Hairy Snowman said:

And the original accusation is inadmissible hearsay

not for goodell

 

this isnt hard people

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2 minutes ago, matuski said:

For about the 5th time now.

The VICTIM has backtracked from it.  Already happened.

is there a link where she says he wasnt involved? if so i missed it

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Just now, pantherclub said:

not for goodell

 

this isnt hard people

But the league faces the same exposure for slander/defamation/libel, maybe even moreso, because of the public nature of the league.  If false, they will have done irreparable damage to his reputation AND career. 

Or, they wait it out until there is a clear path.  

My guess is they are going to give time time.  

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1 minute ago, pantherclub said:

is there a link where she says he wasnt involved? if so i missed it

what are you talking about?  :lmao:

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5 minutes ago, Hairy Snowman said:

And the original accusation is inadmissible hearsay

Not if she appears in court.

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@pantherclub

Nobody has said he wasn't involved - this is what they are investigating, to find out who was involved.

The lawyer has not said he WAS involved and had the friend delete the IG post for that reason.

IN OTHER WORDS THE VICTIM AND HER LAWYER ARE NOT ACCUSING HIM.

eta - obviously this could change pending the investigation, but if the facts stay the same there is no reason for goodell to do anything as McCoy is not linked to the crime.

 

Edited by matuski
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1 minute ago, Hairy Snowman said:

But the league faces the same exposure for slander/defamation/libel, maybe even moreso, because of the public nature of the league.  If false, they will have done irreparable damage to his reputation AND career. 

Or, they wait it out until there is a clear path.  

My guess is they are going to give time time.  

my guess is he sits until its clear

 

err on side of caution and such

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1 minute ago, pantherclub said:

my guess is he sits until its clear

 

err on side of caution and such

Clear of what.

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2 minutes ago, matuski said:

Clear of what.

until the case or investigation is resolved

 

its a huge black eye for goodell if he lets him play and it comes out mccoy had something to do with it

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8 minutes ago, pantherclub said:

um, there is a huge accusation out there now and police are in the middle of an investigation 

I do not see how folks are comparing the Elliott case to the McCoy case under the current evidence.

 

In the Elliott case, the league found enough evidence to conclude that Elliot was violent towards a woman on three separate occasions.

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/11/19/16666714/ezekiel-elliott-nfl-suspension-cowboys-ex

Because the victim did not support the prosecution, the State decided not to pursue criminal charges.  Simply put, the victim flopped on her statement.  Happens all the time in domestic abuse cases. 

The criminal standard is beyond a reasonable doubt... that can be hard to reach when the primary accuser is not supporting the case.  In my experience, the victim will try to explain their injuries as coming only after she had attacked or physically threatened her abuser.  Unlike the old "door knob" claims, these are much harder to disprove and still reach the high beyond a reasonable doubt standard.

The league is not bound by that high standard.  The language of the deal says that the commissioner can act "where the circumstances and evidence warrant doing so."  They are careful to note that this is not the same as a criminal trial standard, but they also avoid using other legal standards like probably cause, preponderance of the evidence or clear and convincing evidence.  

I think there is no dispute that the victim was hit and that Elliott did the hitting... the only issue was if it was in defense or not.  The League findings were innocuous "violent toward the woman on three separate occasions"  avoiding the self-defense issue.  So they hang their hat on either he attacked her or he used to much force in defending himself.  (I.e. the Mixon fact pattern)

The McCoy case is different ball of wax.  If the investigators cannot turn up any direct evidence linking McCoy to the attacker, then the Commish has nothing to hang his hat on to punish.  

Said another way... if the police can ID the attacker and link that attacker to McCoy they will prosecute whether they have the support of the victim or not.  If they cant ID the attacker and/or prove the link, then they wont prosecute and the Commish will not have anything to justify action either.

 

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18 minutes ago, Hairy Snowman said:

And the original accusation is inadmissible hearsay

Inadmissible where?

The ban on hearsay is a legal rule of evidence used in court proceedings, but the league policy is not bound by the rules of evidence.  For example, it carefully points out that players have no 5th Amendment rights concerning league actions and that they can be compelled to answer questions.

(Even though admissibility is not an issue, the credibility and weight of the original claim is certainly less if it is second hand information.) 

Side note:  per the policy, it appears the league is probably required to investigate every allegation contained in the original tweet.  "Whenever the league office becomes aware of a possible violation of the Personal Conduct Policy, it will undertake an investigation."  Note the language of "it will".  Poor word choice if you ask me because it makes it mandatory to investigate every accusation that rises to the incredibly low level of "possible violation."    However, they do give themselves some wiggle room with the next clause: "...the timing and scope of which will be based upon the particular circumstances of the matter."

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Stuart Ullman said:

Didn't Marvin Harrison kill somebody that one time?

No

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15 minutes ago, pantherclub said:

until the case or investigation is resolved

 

its a huge black eye for goodell if he lets him play and it comes out mccoy had something to do with it

and a huge black eye, and a huge lawsuit on their hands, if he doesn't play and it comes out McCoy had nothing to do with it. 

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6 minutes ago, pantherclub said:

where did i compare this to ee?

Your claim that McCoy will sit because of "Goodell" caused me to presume that you were looking at his most recent controversial action dealing with Elliott as many others have on this thread.  

If not ee, then please list which cases you are referencing that led you to believe that Goodell would act in the McCoy case, and then we can compare those situations to the current issues.

Edited by Brisco54

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30 minutes ago, pantherclub said:

my guess is he sits until its clear

 

err on side of caution and such

Goodell is not going to suspend a player based on an unproven allegation on social media. There will have to be more to it than this for him to act.

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7 minutes ago, matttyl said:

and a huge black eye, and a huge lawsuit on their hands, if he doesn't play and it comes out McCoy had nothing to do with it. 

I think it would be a tough case to win if he did in fact sue the NFL, but we don't need to debate the outcome of a lawsuit that doesn't exist. 

The NFL isn't going to do anything until at least the investigation is over. If he's charged he's done. 

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Each case is different. He isn't

38 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Not if she appears in court.

Unless the friend was in the apartment (which maybe she was), AND Shady was actually there beating the woman, or the child, or shooting growth hormones right in front of her, or had at some other time, he friend would have no first hand experience to attest to. 

At least from what I read (I could be wrong), she wasn't at the scene and had no specific personal experiences which could substantiate the accusations.   

 

33 minutes ago, pantherclub said:

its a huge black eye for goodell if he lets him play and it comes out mccoy had something to do with it

It is a bigger black eye if he suspends him and Shady had nothing to do with it.  
 

Edit to add: I simply think it is premature for the league to act.  And I understand that the league is not a court of law.  But if they suspend him, and he did not do it, that is where it will be headed IMHO.  Shady just hired a terrific trial attorney.

Edited by Hairy Snowman
Added

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1 minute ago, squistion said:

Goodell is not going to suspend a player based on an unproven allegation on social media. There will have to be more to it than this for him to act.

Agreed, but the question is how much more.  The Policy gives the Commish to suspend a player on the "Commissioner Exempt List" if "a violation relating to violence is suspected but further investigation is required."  

As I read the policy, I think the Commish has enough now to take action.  The evidence that there was no forced entry and that the specific items that were asked for were specific items that McCoy had previously requested combined with the uncontroverted fact that the victim was physically assaulted rise to the level where an ordinary reasonable person would "suspect" McCoy's involvement.  

So I think he could take action, but in his shoes I would want a little more.

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3 minutes ago, Brisco54 said:

Agreed, but the question is how much more.  The Policy gives the Commish to suspend a player on the "Commissioner Exempt List" if "a violation relating to violence is suspected but further investigation is required."  

As I read the policy, I think the Commish has enough now to take action.  The evidence that there was no forced entry and that the specific items that were asked for were specific items that McCoy had previously requested combined with the uncontroverted fact that the victim was physically assaulted rise to the level where an ordinary reasonable person would "suspect" McCoy's involvement.  

So I think he could take action, but in his shoes I would want a little more.

This is great information

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