Lesean McCoy? How concerned are we?

[The Frankman 2,238]

Quote

LeSean McCoy rushed 12 times for 64 yards in the Chiefs' Week 7 win over the Broncos, adding two receptions for 12 additional yards.

McCoy and Damien Williams were both on the field for the Chiefs' opening drive, but McCoy set the tone by out-touching Williams 4-1 on that possession. He ended up winning the touch battle just 14-11, but soundly out-gained him 76-6. Perhaps clarity might finally be coming to the Chiefs' backfield, as McCoy has a 20-10 carries advantage over the past two games. McCoy will have RB2 appeal for Week 8 against the Packers, though Patrick Mahomes' (knee) potential absence downgrades the entire Chiefs offense.

 

Edited October 18, 2019 by The Frankman

[wormburner 333]

Well, shoot, what to do now! Since we have a few days to speculate and make crap up, I’ll start. 

First, Andy’s going to have to start earning his paycheck again and stop being lazy. He has no choice but to try and balance this offense. Matt Moore cannot impersonate PM, but I think he can do enough to keep defenses from stacking the box. McCoy keeps showing that he can do more than he’s being asked, and the best argument for more of Darrel is Damien.  I dropped Darrel last week but will hold McCoy for now. 

I’m just shooting spitwads, guys, what does the SP think?

[need2know 5,299]

I want to see a whole game without PM

[ShamrockPride 4,766]

Could be checkdown city without PM, but I don't know which RB would be the primary beneficiary of that.

[candian fantasy guy 106]

20 hours ago, ShamrockPride said:

Could be checkdown city without PM, but I don't know which RB would be the primary beneficiary of that.

That didn't really happen last game though, McCoy had 5+ points on the first drive(with/PM) and only managed 4 more points for the entire game. 

 

Color me concerned  in terms of possible checkdowns going to McCoy next game. If it happens, it will be from my bench. 

[TheWinz 1,297]

In the 5 games both Damien and LeSean have played, they each have 41 carries.  Damien has amassed 70 yards (1.7 YPC), while LeSean has 212 yards (5.2 YPC).  Why the 50/50 split when LeSean has clearly been the better RB?  What am I missing?

 

[DocHolliday 2,867]

2 hours ago, TheWinz said:

In the 5 games both Damien and LeSean have played, they each have 41 carries.  Damien has amassed 70 yards (1.7 YPC), while LeSean has 212 yards (5.2 YPC).  Why the 50/50 split when LeSean has clearly been the better RB?  What am I missing?

 

Reid

[crazy8 2]

Looks like McCoy has now moved into the starting role.. played extensively on the early downs

throughout the first three quarters with the game being out of reach didn't play in the fourth qtr.

Poor Damien got some carries late but with the OL in shambles and Denver expecting the run didn't have a chance.

 

[ShamrockPride 4,766]

Anyone playing him tonight? Pretty good RB matchup against this GB defense.

[KingPrawn 1,417]

23 minutes ago, ShamrockPride said:

Anyone playing him tonight? Pretty good RB matchup against this GB defense.

I've got him going with Kamara injured and Elliott on bye. Need a big game from him

[Stinkin Ref 1,072]

posted this in the KC/GB thread but posting here just for future reference and McCoy hate.....

 

Chiefs fan..... I have been telling my wife since McCoy joined the team that the way he carries the ball like a loaf of bread is going to cost them games.....its just a matter of time....you can see it coming...I just don't get it...I sit here on my couch and I can see it from day one with him....do the coaches not see it....does Shady not know he does it?.....is he not coach-able when it comes to tucking it...?....I just don't get it......I know he can "produce" but in these games when each possession is so valuable and your defense can't stop anybody, you have to covet the football...in a normal game, with Mahomes on your team, really the ONLY thing you need to do is not turn the ball over.....let alone if Moore is our QB....."fU" shady....so tired of him not changing his game and protecting the ball...I cringe EVERY time he touches the ball because he just cannot tuck it in.....he leaves it out there like a piece of candy and it's Halloween....

Edited October 28, 2019 by Stinkin Ref

[LawFitz 959]

8 minutes ago, Stinkin Ref said:

posted this in the KC/GB thread but posting here just for future reference and McCoy hate.....

 

Chiefs fan..... I have been telling my wife since McCoy joined the team that the way he carries the ball like a loaf of bread is going to cost them games.....its just a matter of time....you can see it coming...I just don't get...I sit here on my couch and I can see it from day one with him....do the coaches not see it....does Shady not know he does it?.....is he not coach-able when it comes to tucking it...?....I just don't get it......I know he can "produce" but in these games when each possession is so valuable and your defense can't stop anybody, you have to covet the football...in a normal game, with Mahomes on your team, really the ONLY thing you need to do is not turn the ball over.....let alone if Moore is our QB....."fU" shady....so tired of him not changing his game and protecting the ball...I cringe EVERY time he touches the ball because he just cannot tuck it in.....he leaves it out there like a piece of candy and it's Halloween....

I've wondered for years how this habit hasn't caught up with him. Walrus needs to got Tiki's Barber on the phone.

 

[Judge Smails 2,870]

42 minutes ago, Stinkin Ref said:

posted this in the KC/GB thread but posting here just for future reference and McCoy hate.....

 

Chiefs fan..... I have been telling my wife since McCoy joined the team that the way he carries the ball like a loaf of bread is going to cost them games.....its just a matter of time....you can see it coming...I just don't get it...I sit here on my couch and I can see it from day one with him....do the coaches not see it....does Shady not know he does it?.....is he not coach-able when it comes to tucking it...?....I just don't get it......I know he can "produce" but in these games when each possession is so valuable and your defense can't stop anybody, you have to covet the football...in a normal game, with Mahomes on your team, really the ONLY thing you need to do is not turn the ball over.....let alone if Moore is our QB....."fU" shady....so tired of him not changing his game and protecting the ball...I cringe EVERY time he touches the ball because he just cannot tuck it in.....he leaves it out there like a piece of candy and it's Halloween....

I completely agree. And now D Williams has fire in his belly. Shady blew it 

[Don Hutson 591]

43 minutes ago, Stinkin Ref said:

posted this in the KC/GB thread but posting here just for future reference and McCoy hate.....

 

Chiefs fan..... I have been telling my wife since McCoy joined the team that the way he carries the ball like a loaf of bread is going to cost them games.....its just a matter of time....you can see it coming...I just don't get it...I sit here on my couch and I can see it from day one with him....do the coaches not see it....does Shady not know he does it?.....is he not coach-able when it comes to tucking it...?....I just don't get it......I know he can "produce" but in these games when each possession is so valuable and your defense can't stop anybody, you have to covet the football...in a normal game, with Mahomes on your team, really the ONLY thing you need to do is not turn the ball over.....let alone if Moore is our QB....."fU" shady....so tired of him not changing his game and protecting the ball...I cringe EVERY time he touches the ball because he just cannot tuck it in.....he leaves it out there like a piece of candy and it's Halloween....

McCoy has two fumbles in 2018 and 2019 combined.

[Faust 3,827]

Quote

LeSean McCoy had nine carries for 40 yards and caught four passes for 23 yards in Week 8 against the Packers.

McCoy led the backfield in touches and was the featured back early. He went in Andy Reid’s doghouse after fumbling on a late third-quarter handoff that gave the Packers the lead. McCoy had been slowly distancing himself from Damien Williams, but his ball security issues are becoming a concern. With half the season over, McCoy is on pace for 982 total yards and six touchdowns. He'll be an RB3 play for a tough Week 9 matchup with the Vikings.

Oct 27, 2019, 11:49 PM ET

 

[Stinkin Ref 1,072]

5 minutes ago, Don Hutson said:

McCoy has two fumbles in 2018 and 2019 combined.

lol....you could make a case that his fumbles have cost the chiefs two games this year...ball security is and has been an issue with him....anybody watching the game can see how its an issue....my wife who is a casual football fan asked why he "carries it like that"...then when Williams came in we watched some of his runs in slow motion and she was like why doesn't McCoy carry it up there like that guy....I had no answer....

[Stinkin Ref 1,072]

Urban Dictionary.....but spot on when it comes anybody that has watched Shady play....

Like a loaf of bread

If you hold a loaf of bread tightly, you will damage it. The term refers to holding the ball LIGHTLY as you would a LOAF OF BREAD, which means it can be easily dislodged from the player.

"To avoid a fumble, running backs should grip the ball tightly and not like a loaf of bread"

by SwimUpRiver February 02, 2016

 

Like a loaf of bread

The way TV sports announcers, usually following a fumble, describe a football player's style of holding the ball, when he has it in one hand away from his body. It's ridiculous because no one has ever actually seen anyone hold a loaf of bread that way, but they say it every time anyway.

No wonder he fumbled. Look how he was carrying it out there like a loaf of bread.

#football#player#loaf#bread#ball

by Ooooooya January 20, 2011

[Super King 349]

He has 24 fumbles in 11 years in his nfl. He's fumbled once about every ~120 touches. 

Emmitt Smith: 1 fumble every 80 touches

Barry Sanders: 1 fumble every 83 touches

Jim Brown: 1 fumble every 46 touches

[Don Hutson 591]

39 minutes ago, Stinkin Ref said:

lol....you could make a case that his fumbles have cost the chiefs two games this year...ball security is and has been an issue with him....anybody watching the game can see how its an issue....my wife who is a casual football fan asked why he "carries it like that"...then when Williams came in we watched some of his runs in slow motion and she was like why doesn't McCoy carry it up there like that guy....I had no answer....

Well I talked to my aunt and she disagrees.  Shady has fumbled twice in his last 29 games.  He does not have a fumbling problem.

[Stinkin Ref 1,072]

Discus coaches at D1 schools use his tape as training videos....

[elmanx 54]

Yeah, McCoy is kind of weird in this regard.  Even in his peak Philly days, he would routinely carry the ball that way (he doesn't do it all the time, but he does it frequently).   But when you look at his stats over a large sample, he doesn't really have a problem. 

I suppose one could argue that opponents have picked up on his style and are now exploiting it, so if left unchanged we would see a dramatic increase in fumbling rate.   I don't know if that's the case, but it is plausible. 

I also think if you're going to assign blame, Reid deserves at least some.  McCoy has always done this.  It's not something new.  If he felt it was a problem, then he should have addressed it by coaching him to hold it differently. 

[Stinkin Ref 1,072]

18 minutes ago, Don Hutson said:

Well I talked to my aunt and she disagrees.  Shady has fumbled twice in his last 29 games.  He does not have a fumbling problem.

Then why didn't he play after the fumble...

[Don Hutson 591]

14 minutes ago, Stinkin Ref said:

Then why didn't he play after the fumble...

The Chiefs only had 2 more series after the fumble.  Damien Williams looked great in the first of those series.  He had runs of 8 yards and 9 yards and the 3 yard touchdown run.  It would have been foolish to take out Williams when he had the hot hand.

[ShamrockPride 4,766]

And just like that, as we were starting to get some kind of predictability in the KC backfield, it all unravels. Everyone is back to my bench the next couple weeks until we figure this thing out, AGAIN.

[Stinkin Ref 1,072]

7 hours ago, Don Hutson said:

The Chiefs only had 2 more series after the fumble.  Damien Williams looked great in the first of those series.  He had runs of 8 yards and 9 yards and the 3 yard touchdown run.  It would have been foolish to take out Williams when he had the hot hand.

Point is Williams really only came in because of the fumble....

[davearm 744]

7 minutes ago, Stinkin Ref said:

Point is Williams really only came in because of the fumble....

Or because Reid's deployment of his RBs is completely indecipherable.

The "Why is Damien getting touches over Darrel/Shady/Thompson?" question has been asked about a thousand times before this latest fumble.

[Stinkin Ref 1,072]

1 hour ago, davearm said:

Or because Reid's deployment of his RBs is completely indecipherable.

The "Why is Damien getting touches over Darrel/Shady/Thompson?" question has been asked about a thousand times before this latest fumble.

Shady did not play after the fumble.....he did not play anymore because of ball security issues.....Williams performing "well/hot hand" was done after the fumble..... Reid wasn't magically thinking " I bet Williams has the hot hand right now, I should put him in"......

[davearm 744]

19 minutes ago, Stinkin Ref said:

Shady did not play after the fumble.....he did not play anymore because of ball security issues.....Williams performing "well/hot hand" was done after the fumble..... Reid wasn't magically thinking " I bet Williams has the hot hand right now, I should put him in"......

I understand you believe ball security to be the reason.  You may be right, or it might be any one of several other reasons.

[yoman 54]

I can't decipher Reid's RB usage this year when it comes to the Williams brothers.  Shady has been much better than I thought he was going to be when they signed him because I thought he was done. It seems clear he was removed from the Packers game because of his fumble but I doubt that will take him out of the starting lineup.   He has seemed fine from a health perspective since his ankle injury earlier this year.  Darrel has been more productive than Damien but gets fewer touches.  I thought Thompson would be in the mix this season but he has barely seen the field.  Historically owning a Reid back has been fantasy gold but this year it seems like fool's gold. 

[LawFitz 959]

10 hours ago, elmanx said:

I suppose one could argue that opponents have picked up on his style and are now exploiting it, so if left unchanged we would see a dramatic increase in fumbling rate.   I don't know if that's the case, but it is plausible. 

I also think if you're going to assign blame, Reid deserves at least some.  McCoy has always done this.  It's not something new.  If he felt it was a problem, then he should have addressed it by coaching him to hold it differently. 

I doubt they've just this year picked up on it. He's been doing it routinely his entire career. Perhaps the difference is he's lost a bit of explosiveness and now defenders are more regularly able to get close enough to make him pay. Or perhaps it's just coincidence and flukey. I suspect the former.

If I could bet on it, I'd wager a ton that Reid and pretty much every coach McCoy has had over his entire career, probably dating back all the way to high school, has been trying to coach him out of bread loafing. The problem has always been enforcement. Until now, he didn't fumble often enough, and he was indispensable. Both of those factors are slipping away from McCoy's favor, or so it seems.

I said it before, I'll say it again. McCoy needs to study Tiki Barber. Dude went from fumbling-bumbling scat back to all-world feature back simply by learning to hold the ball conservatively. It took nothing away from his game and gave him some all-world seasons to finish his career.

[Chaka 6,241]

Who cares about something that has been going on for over a decade and clearly no professional coaches have a problem with?

The real issue is Reid calling 36 passes and 18 runs for his RBs.  It's Matt Freaking Moore ANDY. WTF?!?!?!?!!

[Stinkin Ref 1,072]

13 minutes ago, Chaka said:

Who cares about something that has been going on for over a decade and clearly no professional coaches have a problem with?

The real issue is Reid calling 36 passes and 18 runs for his RBs.  It's Matt Freaking Moore ANDY. WTF?!?!?!?!!

seeing that he didn't return to the game and it appeared he never was going to, might indicate that Reid had a problem with it......was it a little late....you bet....but hopefully the message has been sent.....IMO would be happy to welcome him back to the field if he makes an adjustment.....if not I hope he stays on the sideline.....

[Biabreakable 4,397]

11 hours ago, Stinkin Ref said:

Urban Dictionary.....but spot on when it comes anybody that has watched Shady play....

Like a loaf of bread

If you hold a loaf of bread tightly, you will damage it. The term refers to holding the ball LIGHTLY as you would a LOAF OF BREAD, which means it can be easily dislodged from the player.

"To avoid a fumble, running backs should grip the ball tightly and not like a loaf of bread"

by SwimUpRiver February 02, 2016

 

Like a loaf of bread

The way TV sports announcers, usually following a fumble, describe a football player's style of holding the ball, when he has it in one hand away from his body. It's ridiculous because no one has ever actually seen anyone hold a loaf of bread that way, but they say it every time anyway.

No wonder he fumbled. Look how he was carrying it out there like a loaf of bread.

#football#player#loaf#bread#ball

by Ooooooya January 20, 2011

Yes.

I learned from Booger that one can throw the ball like a loaf of brad as well although it is poor technique to do so. 

You want to throw it more like fish.

[Chaka 6,241]

24 minutes ago, Stinkin Ref said:

seeing that he didn't return to the game and it appeared he never was going to, might indicate that Reid had a problem with it......was it a little late....you bet....but hopefully the message has been sent.....IMO would be happy to welcome him back to the field if he makes an adjustment.....if not I hope he stays on the sideline.....

McCoy is going to start and get the majority of touches next week.  I hope it doesn't happen but it would be foolish to think it won't.

[Stompin' Tom Connors 3,047]

40 minutes ago, Chaka said:

McCoy is going to start and get the majority of touches next week.  I hope it doesn't happen but it would be foolish to think it won't.

Agree. We may see Damien find a little more touches based on a solid performance, so share might shift but likely not impact anything substantial.

This is still a RBBC nightmare backfield. 

[Chaka 6,241]

10 minutes ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Agree. We may see Damien find a little more touches based on a solid performance, so share might shift but likely not impact anything substantial.

This is still a RBBC nightmare backfield. 

Damien in the third was my worst pick.  The worst part is that if my draft was three hours later, I wouldn't have done it (same day they signed McCoy).

[coachjim 10]

Shady's two fumbles might have realistically cost KC  two games in the win column.  

[efactor 781]

18 hours ago, Don Hutson said:

Well I talked to my aunt and she disagrees.  Shady has fumbled twice in his last 29 games.  He does not have a fumbling problem.

Nice

Your aunt is a very wise woman.  McCoy is obviously their best RB in Andy's eyes since he has gotten the majority of the carries lately.  A couple fumbles and he now has a fumbling problem?  I think coaches overreact in these situations.  Benching your best back isn't gonna make him not fumble down the road, so unless you plan on making the benching permanent, why do it in a close game where it could have cost you the game?   

[fred_1_15301 3,640]

How concerned are we?  Pretty concerned.  Pretty, pretty, concerned.

[Payne 352]

Yeah I've been on the Shady bandwagon all year. However, now I'm starting to think Damien might be the play moving forward. Reid cannot be happy about those fumbles. 

[Team Smokin' 208]

It's the same thing Belichick would do as a head coach. You sit em because fumbles are costly and the coach (Reid) emphasizes it.

I do believe Shady will get another crack this week. He may not be the best of plays, but in this thin RB situation, serviceable as a low end RB 2 or Flex?

I'll be following the entire KC team being moderately invested with Mahomes, Hill, and Butker in three different leagues. Shady is a FA in one league with short benches. 

[ConnSKINS26 4,807]

Inactive today

[rockaction 15,766]

That happened fast.

I added Darrel Williams. He's got to get some run today. 

[Twenty-Four Eighty-Four 429]

2 minutes ago, rockaction said:

That happened fast.

I added Darrel Williams. He's got to get some run today. 

Just did the same.

[zamboni 3,707]

Or maybe the long lost Darwin Thompson finally gets a chance to show something?

[Ministry of Pain 3,398]

5 minutes ago, rockaction said:

That happened fast.

I added Darrel Williams. He's got to get some run today. 

 

3 minutes ago, Twenty-Four Eighty-Four said:

Just did the same.

Ditto, you can't leave him out there at this point in the season and McCoy getting a healthy scratch at his age? Perhaps he is a potential cut/release although that's hard to fathom honestly. 

[joffer 10,419]

wow

[ShamrockPride 4,766]

Well dang. Damien is probably a pretty decent play today.

[ChuckLiddell 616]

Fire back up the Darwin train!

[rockaction 15,766]

6 minutes ago, zamboni said:

Or maybe the long lost Darwin Thompson finally gets a chance to show something?

He looks like freakin' Kyler Murray out there.