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The ***OFFICIAL*** Lorenzo Taliaferro Thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Otis
- Start date
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
Re-watching the game, he seems to possess the one thing Pierce seems to lack..vision. In a ZBS you need a RB who can press the hole and read the gaps in the zone to be successful and by all accounts Pierce has looked unable to do so while Taliaferro has. To me, it's that simple. Even if Pierce is more athletic than Taliaferro, it means zip if you're constantly running into the back of one of your lineman. Time will tell, but I think Taliaferro comes out on top of what I presume to initially be a committee.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
I invested a lot in him .... I hope he is the out of nowhere RB that seems to come along every year.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Pietaster2
Footballguy
I was shocked when I got him off of the WW today with the 9th priority in a 12 man league. People are somehow still sleeping on him when his only competition is a banged up Bernard Pierce and mediocre journeyman Justin Forsett. Even if he's only above average, he doesn't have a whole lot of competition to break out.
Good things might happen as the season goes on.
Good things might happen as the season goes on.
th3f00l
Footballguy
I was watching his combine and college highlights. He does have great vision, follows his blockers. Not so much hesitant, but patient. Looks like he really waits for the play to develop. I always thought that Ray Rice was more the product of a system. The offensive line was great for opening lanes. My main worry for the Baltimore running game is the absence of a FB like Vonta Leach. I don't think Ray Rice could have had half as much success if he wasn't hiding behind that man (not a short joke [ok, kind of a short joke]).
That being said. I can Also see why LozTaf wasn't drafted higher. He isn't very fast (4.58 40). His college highlight reel doesn't show a lot of burst, although he does change direction well. He will have to rely on his 229lbs body to bruise his way through a few tackles, which he didn't have to much trouble with against poor defenses in college. He isn't built like that type of power runner. I don't think he will be strong enough to run through NFLline backers, so again, he will really need to rely on his blockers to get to the second level.
That being said. I can Also see why LozTaf wasn't drafted higher. He isn't very fast (4.58 40). His college highlight reel doesn't show a lot of burst, although he does change direction well. He will have to rely on his 229lbs body to bruise his way through a few tackles, which he didn't have to much trouble with against poor defenses in college. He isn't built like that type of power runner. I don't think he will be strong enough to run through NFLline backers, so again, he will really need to rely on his blockers to get to the second level.
Otis
Footballguy
In that sense you can imagine a comparison to a guy like Alfred Morris. Not ultra dynamic as a runner or athlete, but runs for hard yards, decisively, in a one cut/cutback run blocking scheme, and it works well. If Taliaferro ends up being that, I'm good with it.SameSongNDance said:
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
Ghost Rider
Footballguy
I am still raging about the fact that I had him on several teams two weeks ago, but had to cut him last week, after he didn't get a touch against the Steelers, cause of needs in other areas. Had I known that Pierce might not play last week, I would have never cut him. Now it will cost me blind bidding dollars to get him today. Such is FF life. 
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CentralPA
Footballguy
Hindsight is a mother penetration.I am still raging about the fact that I had him on several teams two weeks ago, but had to cut him last week cause of needs in other areas, and after he didn't get a touch against Pittsburgh. Had I known that Pierce might not play last week, I would have never cut him. Now it will cost me blind bidding dollars to get him today. Such is FF life.
shoecrew22
Footballguy
I always see people say "Rewatching the game" are you a homer who had the game DVRd? I work for TWC and have NFL Ticket max on DTV so I have every single channel and all their online on demand stuff...where can I go to rewatch games?SameSongNDance said:
JMJ
Footballguy
The thing I like about him is that Kubkiak picked him himself. He inherited Pierce. And while he signed Forsett in free agency, it was to be a scatback, not a feature back.
Think of all the great fantasy seasons that have come from the Shannahan/Kubiak tree; Terrell Davis, Mike Anderson, Olandis Gary, Clinton Portis, Reuben Droughns, Dominick Davis, Steve Slaton, Arian Foster, Alfred Morris, and I'm probably missing one.
Kubiak knows exactly what a RB needs to be successful in his offense. Good vision and the ability to make one cut and go. He must have seen this in LT or he wouldn't have drafted him. I'd rather have who Kubiak chose rather than who he inherited even if it takes another few weeks for him to fully win the job (I expect Pierce to get the start initially when healthy again but LT to keep outperforming him).
Think of all the great fantasy seasons that have come from the Shannahan/Kubiak tree; Terrell Davis, Mike Anderson, Olandis Gary, Clinton Portis, Reuben Droughns, Dominick Davis, Steve Slaton, Arian Foster, Alfred Morris, and I'm probably missing one.
Kubiak knows exactly what a RB needs to be successful in his offense. Good vision and the ability to make one cut and go. He must have seen this in LT or he wouldn't have drafted him. I'd rather have who Kubiak chose rather than who he inherited even if it takes another few weeks for him to fully win the job (I expect Pierce to get the start initially when healthy again but LT to keep outperforming him).
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
i don't believe it - I think its Talliaferro with the bulk of carries until he plays himself out of it (fumbles or Trent Rich type YPC) and goal line as big a boy as he is. i didn't see a negative yard on any replays I saw - he always gets ya something
don't catch well maybe ?
dschuler
Footballguy
With NFL Rewind, you can watch an entire game in about 35 minutes. It cuts all the other crap out. Or you can watch it with all the commentating, commercial free.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
thanks for the writeup. this was helpful.
I went big in waivers trying to get him in two leagues, but only got him in one. Thankfully it was a dynasty league, so I could see some long-term upside. Good luck to us new "LozTaf" owners! LOL
im pretty sure people just call him Zo for short
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
I get the sense he may not be startable this week, but maybe wait until he emerges and the situation clears up. Anyone see an argument for starting him with Pierce back?
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JFS171
Footballguy
I want to see it another week, but Pierce all season has looked extremely mediocre to me. Forsett looked better in the last game they both played, and we know what Forsett is. Taliaferro was running like a mack truck in preseason, and then went out last week and performed when given the opportunity. I would imagine it's a committee for now, but my bets would be placed on Taliaferro.
CentralPA
Footballguy
I do think it's only a matter of time until Talafero takes over. Just like Crowell, he'll eventually be the starting back.
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Fat Nick
Footballguy
Agree here. I think people are always quick to overvalue the "new guy" based on running alone. If the NFL has proven anything over the years, it's that in order to be an every-down back, you've got to run well, AND be able to pass protect, catch, and know the full playbook.
We see on the field that Taliaferro is a good runner.
We might notice his blocking ability.
We might notice his hands.
We really don't know if they have to limit the playbook because he's a rookie.
There are a lot of things that go into play, and I think time and time again, we've seen that veterans tend to get the benefit of the doubt in cases like this. Pierce had an awful week 1. He was pretty good in week 2, despite what some would lead you to believe. He was hurt week 3, when they played Cleveland, who is giving up the 2nd most points to fantasy RB's (give or take), and Taliaferro went off. I don't think going off against the 2nd worst run defense in the league is enough to earn a starting job. Many many RB's could probably have done that. Heck, we don't know if Pierce might have put up more yards and more TD's...
Bottom line...He's a rookie. He might start eventually, but I don't think they would've kept Pierce around and talked about him as a future starting back when Rice was still around if they were just going to dismiss him after a rookie RB puts up yards against Cleveland.
Tanner9919
Footballguy
go up a few posts, and read the one from JMJ, #15.it's dead-on,100% accurate..quoting him :
"Think of all the great fantasy seasons that have come from the Shannahan/Kubiak tree; Terrell Davis, Mike Anderson, Olandis Gary, Clinton Portis, Reuben Droughns, Dominick Davis, Steve Slaton, Arian Foster, Alfred Morris, and I'm probably missing one."
were Mike Anderson, Droughns, Slaton,Davis, Morris, Gary , anything special? no,they were borderline scrap heap players that became studs under Kubiak/Shanny..you can probably add Lorenzo to that list..he's going to thrive in Balt this season..
cloppbeast
Footballguy
Like the situation in Cleveland, I think folks overstate the demise of veterans running backs. Could be wrong, but I believe a healthy Pierce assumes his starting role this week. As some have mentioned already, there's a lot more that goes into playing running back in the NFL than carrying the football.
It seems like everybody around here always loves the new guy, but forget that, not long ago Pierce and Tate were the hyped new guys with all the potential. Now all of the sudden they're garbage? In two or three years, posters will call Crowell, West, and Taliaferro bums in favor of the shiny new toy.
It seems like everybody around here always loves the new guy, but forget that, not long ago Pierce and Tate were the hyped new guys with all the potential. Now all of the sudden they're garbage? In two or three years, posters will call Crowell, West, and Taliaferro bums in favor of the shiny new toy.
cloppbeast
Footballguy
As far as Talaiferro, if he represents another Kubiak/Shanahan runningback hidden gem, he fits more of the Mike Anderson/Olandis Gary/Rueben Droughns model than Terrell Davis/Alfred Morris/Arian Foster.
Just my two cents.
Just my two cents.
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JFS171
Footballguy
In fairness, people said Morris fit more in that tier after his first month, claiming it was just the system. And he had done a whole lot more than Tal has to this point (albeit with a whole lot more opportunity). Unfair IMO to label Tal until we see him get a legit shot with 18-20 carries a week.
cloppbeast
Footballguy
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
Pierce isn't a veteran, he's merely 7 months older than Taliaferro. This isn't overstating the demise of a veteran, it's people believing Pierce will never take off. You're also correct, there are a lot of tangibles and intangibles that go into the position. The poster above who brought this up mentioned pass blocking, pass catching and understanding the playbook but hilariously didn't even bother to analyze them as they pertain to Taliaferro. Believe it or not, at least the first two aforementioned qualities can be considered some his strengths. He was an outstanding pass protector in college and displayed good hands. I've heard him referred to as a "smart" football player as well which would likely lend to him understanding the playbook quicker. If you want to focus on the knocks then look at his top end speed or rigidity in his run form; pass pro. most certainly is not one of them.
Anyway, I still contend all three will render each other unplayable for the time being but still like Taliaferro to come out on top. Hopefully it will be made clearer sooner rather than later, especially when they both get touches in the same game.
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cloppbeast
Footballguy
For all the excitement backing Pierce this pre-season, I'm surprised only 28 carries has washed it away. I just don't think Harbs shares the fickleness of the shark pool. The Ravens still have him on top on the depth chart, which to me has significance. I think Taliaferro needs Pierce to continue to 'struggle' (using the term loosely) in order to get significant carries.
I think you have to be right about Pierce in order to be right about Taliaferro. Granted, it's definitely possible that Pierce now has a short leash given Taliaferro's competent performance against Cleveland, so I guess the situation has some fluidity. I personally willl put my money on Pierce though.
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Xue
Footballguy
Fat Nick
Footballguy
I won't argue with the fact that Shannahan/Kubiak have resulted in great fantasy seasons from average guys...but I don't understand why people are so quick to say that Lorenzo > Pierce based on one game against the Browns. One. Game.
Fat Nick
Footballguy
This.
I'm not saying Lorenzo will not get carries...but people are talking about him like he's going to instantly slot in as the starter.
For those of you on the Kubiak band wagon, look at Ben Tate...He was a star when he first started subbing in for an injured Foster. He'd regularly put up 100+ and a TD. Who got the starting nod when Foster returned? Foster. Yes...I know Pierce <> Foster, but Pierce was good enough to be in the discussion of replacing Rice. He had 1 good game and 1 bad one. That's not enough to just forget about him.
Fat Nick
Footballguy
Why? Because he had one bad game this year? He stumbled out of the gate. His whole team had a bad week 1, and Cincy has one of the better run defenses in the league. He ran 22 times for 96 yards and a 4.4 YPC in the second game. That's a solid effort by anybody's standards.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Taliaferro played better last week than Pierce has since 2012.
cloppbeast
Footballguy
In his bad game, Pierce only received 6 carries, hardly enough for a confident takeaway.
Ever Present Lurker
Footballguy
HOLY CRAP! I got his nickname! We HAVE to call him Zorro!!!! Take it viral, right now.
Zorro!
ETA: A little research has shown me suspicious that he may already be known as Zo-bot. I want Zorro. The fox, so cunning and free.
Zorro!
ETA: A little research has shown me suspicious that he may already be known as Zo-bot. I want Zorro. The fox, so cunning and free.
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Fat Nick
Footballguy
Based on what metric? You can't just go making random statements without any factual basis.
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
The eyeball test metric. You can point to the box score from week 2 and say Pierce has improved from last year but if you had watched the game you'd see him constantly misreading gaps and running with much less power than expected. I agree that the sample size with Taliaferro is likely too small to pass an legitimate judgement yet but I like his odds better than Pierce's at this point. Pierce flashed during his rookie year and we haven't seen any of that since. Taliaferro already has a longer rush in his one measly start than Pierce had all last year.
