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Dynasty & Redraft: WR Amari Cooper, Cowboys

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2 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Honestly I don’t get the relevance.

Is he saying  that because Tom Brady, arguably the greatest quarterback of all time, (along with the patriots offense)  managed to score points against the Bears defense that somehow Kahlil Mack   is not a generational talent at DL?

:unsure:

 Somehow the calculus escapes me here. 

 Perhaps we should point out the concept of a team sport, or maybe point to the stats that Kahlil Mack has put up to date as a Chicago bear?  That might seem a bit more an apples to apples comparison. 

And Mack is not healthy. 

The way that Mack plays and how he makes plays.... a bum ankle is one of the worst things he can play with and still go. 

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45 minutes ago, Otis said:

I’ll call it now. A bunch of hundred yard games going forward.  Get him in your lineups. 

Wait, Dallas go a new QB today too?

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53 minutes ago, Otis said:

I’ll call it now. A bunch of hundred yard games going forward.  Get him in your lineups. 

Sell high.  You won't get better value the rest of the season.

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Cooper is such a hard WR to evaluate. He’s so good at route running and so bad at winning contested balls, everything about him is weirdly uneven. When Cooper is “on” he looks freaking unstoppable and when he’s “off” he looks like a baseball player with the case of the yips. Nothing about his early career and the wild week by week swings feels normal to me or easy to project going forward.

The deciding factor on whether he turns his career around will likely be his mind, his work ethic, and dedication to football. This, to us, is pretty unknowable. I think we can all agree that the Cowboys overpaid a bit but saying that we know Cooper is a future stud or we know Dallas got fleeced feels kind of silly to me because I feel like we have no idea.

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2 hours ago, Bigboy10182000 said:

This deal feels like Trent Richardson to Indy for me. He’s tranding all the wrong ways and you don’t deal a 24 year old potential #1 WR unless you know something. 

 

 

45 minutes ago, voiceofunreason said:

Reminds of Richardson getting traded to the colts. Seems like the cowboys are just figuring out their wrs suck and panicking.

My immediate reaction was the same. I will say, however, that it's far more likely a WR can have his "talent" schemed right out of the box score on a weekly basis. Running fast and hard into the backs of your lineman is much tougher to blame on scheme.

Time will tell, but I'd sell on Cooper hoping it'll be high value right now. I can't really see the Cowboys suddenly being more pass happy now.

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39 minutes ago, Judge Smails said:

so who is Gruden building around? Marshawn?

Carr, Kolton Miller, Gabe Jackson, and Chris Warren. And Osemele and Hudson if they can hold on for another few years at their generally high level of potential play. 

Carr might be on the hot seat, but I do think Gruden still thinks he has a guy in Carr who can execute his vision of what the offense can be. 

We will definitely need to score on some WRs, which has plagued us now for years, and it's too early to tell if we can build around some defensive promise in Hall, Hurst, and Key, but the promise is definitely there. If we hold on and can actually develop Conley and Joseph, they have some raw talent to build around there, too, though less hopeful.

We have some pieces, and now a lot more options to start building around them immediately. May not fully pay off until 2020 or later, but that's why Gruden was brought in under a 10 year deal, after all. 

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I still like Cooper and the guys got some talent, so I won't say he can't have some good fantasy days with his new situation (all you need is to bust a long TD and he's certainly capable of that.)

But the Cowboys have thrown for less than 200 yards per game in 5 out of 7 games this year. Here is their passing yardage by game this year:

138

160

137

231

194

172

250

Those of you thinking this is a fantasy football slam-dunk upgrade for Cooper, let that sink in a bit.

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Some could argue they lack a player like Cooper who can take the top off and bust some big yardage plays. Maybe they paid a 1st for Cooper because they have big intentions on using him. Sure it can flop, but sometimes change of scenery really does wonders for a player.

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5 minutes ago, Buckna said:

Here is their passing yardage by game this year:

138

160

137

231

194

172

250

Those of you thinking this is a fantasy football slam-dunk upgrade for Cooper, let that sink in a bit.

That might also be because they didn’t have a legit WR though. Chicken & the egg & all that. 

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1 hour ago, menobrown said:

How sweet would one of these landings spots have been?:

Michael Silver‏Verified account @MikeSilver 1h1 hour ago

I’m told the Eagles offered a second-round pick to the Raiders for Amari Cooper last week. Raiders held out for a 1. Got it today from Philly’s NFC East rival. Colts also had interest. @AroundTheNFL @nflnetwork

OMG I would have loved it if Luck had gotten Cooper.

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7 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

 

That might also be because they didn’t have a legit WR though. Chicken & the egg & all that. 

As someone who owns him, at this point it is highly debatable if Cooper is a legit WR. His struggles with drops, contested catches and press coverage are well documented in this thread.

I'd argue it's much more likely that they play in a run-oriented offense and have a crap QB then they were missing a magic WR1 to suddenly turn them into NOT a bottom 3 passing offense.

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Given how bad things have been in Oakland, a change of scenery can't help but be good for Cooper. The fact that Dallas gave up a first for him tells you that they think he is still very talented and that means they should be motivated to involve him.  He is still very young too.

Another positive is that he steps into a void where he should be able to dominate targets.

Nevertheless, Dak hasn't been great and Dallas has its own struggles. And as others have pointed out, Dallas has been more run focussed than pass focussed.

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, King of the Jungle said:

Dak doesn’t strike me as a good deep ball thrower. I would think that a big bodied/large radius WR would be a better fit for the offense. 

He doesn't (he won't) throw deep unless the WR is schoolyard open.  See the Gallup TD this weekend.

Large reason Dez struggled with him was Dez's strength (high pointing the ball) versus Daks inabilty or refusal to put it up.

Edited by matuski

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9 minutes ago, King of the Jungle said:

Dak doesn’t strike me as a good deep ball thrower. I would think that a big bodied/large radius WR would be a better fit for the offense. 

Which is fine, as it's debatable whether the deep long ball is really Cooper's forte. 

He also has had historic trouble with separation when jammed at the line.

His success (I don't have next gen or other stats to support this other than a history of watching a ton of Raider games) is more mid-distance passes out of a slot or against off-man or zone (non-press) coverage where he can augment existing separation and cleanly catch the ball.

Not sure how Dak's game correlates to this, or how/where they plan to utilize and line up Cooper, but that's how I would do it if I were Garrett.

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Defenses totally disrespect Dallas passing game and have been totally fixated on stopping Zeke and the short passing game.  Amari’s hands can be brutal, but he’s a legit downfield threat.

Don't know about the pick, but it’s being reported that Eagles already offered a second for him, so there was definitely competition.  I agree it’s a risky move, but you can’t blame Jerry for Taking a chance when the division is wide open.

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24 minutes ago, az_prof said:

Given how bad things have been in Oakland, a change of scenery can't help but be good for Cooper. The fact that Dallas gave up a first for him tells you that they think he is still very talented and that means they should be motivated to involve him.  He is still very young too.

Another positive is that he steps into a void where he should be able to dominate targets.

Nevertheless, Dak hasn't been great and Dallas has its own struggles. And as others have pointed out, Dallas has been more run focussed than pass focussed.

 

 

 

He should have been dominating targets in OAK but rarely was the case. The positive comes from Jerry spending a first on him so he will be given a strong chance to succeed.

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25 minutes ago, matuski said:

He doesn't (he won't) throw deep unless the WR is schoolyard open.  See the Gallup TD this weekend.

Large reason Dez struggled with him was Dez's strength (high pointing the ball) versus Daks inabilty or refusal to put it up.

It’s interesting how Dak and Amari’s weaknesses correlate. Dak hates throwing contested balls and Amari seems to hate catching them. Like two lost souls who meet at Alcoholics Anonymous maybe they can have a beautiful dysfunctional relationship together…

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1 hour ago, electric Ape said:

It’s interesting how Dak and Amari’s weaknesses correlate. Dak hates throwing contested balls and Amari seems to hate catching them. Like two lost souls who meet at Alcoholics Anonymous maybe they can have a beautiful dysfunctional relationship together…

Even if Amari's wide open, Dak won't see him. Gallup was open all day in Washington and Dak always seemed to be looking somewhere else. Its going to be cold this winter in Dallas and no 1st round pick next year.

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3 hours ago, BusterTBronco said:

How many points did Brady and Co put up against your so-called "generational talent"?

 

3 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Mack plays DB? :o 

And apparently he plays alone.

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This seems like somewhat of a lateral move for Cooper. I wouldn't expect him to do anything the rest of this year, it will probably take him that long to get up to speed with the offense and I'm not sure they will throw enough anyways.  The QB in Dallas sucks at putting up big numbers in the passing game, and the offensive scheme and coaching sucks too. 

For those saying that Cooper just isn't a good player, you're probably wrong about that.  You have to remember that crap scheme/coaching and crap QB play makes good WRs look bad, and plays a huge factor in fantasy numbers.  

Cooper was good when Oakland and Carr were good... It's not a coincidence. I'm worried about Dallas... I'd sell in redraft if you can, and if you can't hang on to him not expecting anything until next year I'd be selling in Dynasty too.  The problem with that is I don't expect my league mates to be buying even though Cooper is pretty high up in Dynasty consensus rankings due to youth and talent. 

Also, Dallas paid wayyy too much. 

 

Edited by kittenmittens

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a 1st is crazy but I get why Dallas is doing it. the NFC East is a dumpster fire where no one wants to win the division

 

Not a huge fan of the perceived volume he would be getting. hes got to be better off than he was in Oakland. might at least have a higher floor

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7 hours ago, beerbuff said:

trade as fast as you can, Chubb is the guy to own in that deal.

What if you had to add Goff for Ben?  Dynasty.  

Ive got Ryan Goff and Mayfield at QB.  Hunt, Drake, Mack, Breida, Clement

Evans, Landry, Cooper, MJones, Agholor, Enunwa

 

My rb2 and flex is a problem. 

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Most overrated QB in the league paired with the most overrated WR... I love it

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12 hours ago, electric Ape said:

It’s interesting how Dak and Amari’s weaknesses correlate. Dak hates throwing contested balls and Amari seems to hate catching them. Like two lost souls who meet at Alcoholics Anonymous maybe they can have a beautiful dysfunctional relationship together…

Yah.  It'll b great if he can block down field for when Dak tucks and runs 15 times per game.

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10 minutes ago, Faust said:

Cowboys admit WR committee was a mistake, hope Cooper is a No. 1

Quote

The Cowboys hope he develops into a Dez Bryant, Miles Austin, Terrell Owens or Michael Irvin, who served as the Cowboys’ No. 1 receivers for the bulk of Jerry Jones’ tenure as owner and general manager.

 

Austin, Dez, and Owens had Romo; Irvin had Aikman.

Dak is decidedly neither in terms of talent.

Rooting for Cooper as both a fan (loved him on our Raiders) and an owner this year, as it's clear he has a chance to be the feature. In PPR, he'll likely have the targets.

But just like Jones got fleeced on this trade, trying to fleece another GM by trading up for high-end RB2 or better. While targets will be there, it's not like Cooper fared well against press/double coverage, and as a featured talent on a weak WR corps, he'll just be facing more of the same, without a fantastic QB delivering the rock like the ones this article brings up in comparison.

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22 hours ago, (HULK) said:

Most overrated QB in the league paired with the most overrated WR... I love it

Sammy Watkins would like a word with you.

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It'll be interesting.....Im not sure Dak is an upgrade over Carr, but I still think Carr was more of the issue.....whether or not Jerrah got fleeced, our WR corps got better.

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I have to admit, I’m rooting for Amari to bounce back. I hate the Cowboys but I like Cooper. He seems like a good kid.

I’m not optimistic, but I believe he’ll be better in DAL than he was in Oakland. 

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6 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

I have to admit, I’m rooting for Amari to bounce back. I hate the Cowboys but I like Cooper. He seems like a good kid.

I’m not optimistic, but I believe he’ll be better in DAL than he was in Oakland. 

I never get to see the Raiders play.. loved this guy at Alabama.

The Cowboys will have to draft/sign a QB soon, I wouldn't expect much this year.  Moving forward he should benefit from a team with a strong RB and OL.

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17 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

mahomes is overrated? weird thing to say

not what I said, but I would say that.

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49 minutes ago, matuski said:

not what I said, but I would say that.

he said it was the most overrated wr with the most overrated QB. you said Watkins would want a word which insinuates you're saying mahomes and Watkins are more overrated than cooper and dak. which is absurd

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Dallas faithful seem to agree that the Boys gave up too much.

Honestly this looks like another brilliant move by Philadelphia making it known they we're willing to give up a second, forcing the Cowboys to give up more or go home.

Philadelphia played chicken with Dallas and the early returns suggest Phili won.

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1 minute ago, Chaka said:

Dallas faithful seem to agree that the Boys gave up too much.

Honestly this looks like another brilliant move by Philadelphia making it known they we're willing to give up a second, forcing the Cowboys to give up more or go home.

Philadelphia played chicken with Dallas and the early returns suggest Phili won.

I am not sure this reflects so much on the brilliance of Philly as it does on the idiocy of Jerry Jones.

What's more plausible, that Philly only put in a high bid hoping that DAL would match? Or that they put in what they thought it was valued at and would take to get him, and Jones' ego, not being willing to be outbid by a rival, went all in?

The brilliant one here is actually Reggie Mackenzie. I do hope he stays next year, given what he's done for the team, this last draft, and for this trade alone.

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15 minutes ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

I am not sure this reflects so much on the brilliance of Philly as it does on the idiocy of Jerry Jones.

What's more plausible, that Philly only put in a high bid hoping that DAL would match? Or that they put in what they thought it was valued at and would take to get him, and Jones' ego, not being willing to be outbid by a rival, went all in?

The brilliant one here is actually Reggie Mackenzie. I do hope he stays next year, given what he's done for the team, this last draft, and for this trade alone.

Why would Philly really want Cooper? They really willing to give up a 2nd for, what would effectively be, their 4th read?

Coop's the clear #1 read in Dallas, not so much in Philly.

Philly played Dallas.

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38 minutes ago, Dr. Dan said:

he said it was the most overrated wr with the most overrated QB. you said Watkins would want a word which insinuates you're saying mahomes and Watkins are more overrated than cooper and dak. which is absurd

no, not what I said.

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It is simple. If Cooper plays like he has over his career with the Raiders- the Raiders win this trade. If he ends up fulfilling his talent potential, becomes a consistent producer without having to get him going and he stops dropping balls then the Raiders win. 

Let me explain. 

If Cooper ends up fully becoming what he I think he can become due to his talent, then the Cowboys are coming up against a new contract for him. I don't follow them too closely in terms of their cap situation but I do remember they were up against the wall this off season. They will need to pay up. Meanwhile the Raiders get what looks like a top 15 player on a rookie deal and unless they bust they get tons of value and cap space to sign veterans. 

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