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Dynasty & Redraft: WR Amari Cooper, Cowboys

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49 minutes ago, Football Jones said:

Cowboys & Cooper talking extension.

This is exactly what I had hoped for as a fan. If things go well, get him locked up.

The longer Cooper is under contract & producing, the more you win the trade.

...Unless the contract is an over pay and ends up restricting you from bringing in actual good players, like at qb

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4 hours ago, Dr. Dan said:

...Unless the contract is an over pay and ends up restricting you from bringing in actual good players, like at qb

Which it likely will be.  But they could give the guy 20mil/year and FBJ would run in here and boast how it was the best contract in nfl history for the cowboys.  Don't think I've ever seen such complete blind homerism in all my years following sports.

If only the team had a 1st rounder to spend on a QB next year.

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Key point is Dallas is a VERY young team.

Long way to go here, boys.

I like that we're talking extension with Cooper.

Like I said, Cooper was another piece of the puzzle, but it'll take time to integrate him fully into the offense.

We don't even know who our new HC will be yet.

Edited by Football Jones

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1 hour ago, Deamon said:

Which it likely will be.  But they could give the guy 20mil/year and FBJ would run in here and boast how it was the best contract in nfl history for the cowboys.  Don't think I've ever seen such complete blind homerism in all my years following sports.

If only the team had a 1st rounder to spend on a QB next year.

To just blindly agree with every single thing a franchise does is a bit ridiculous and makes it hard to carry a serious conversation. Sometimes I wonder if it's just trolling. But I imagine it's not. I like the discussion but it's difficult when the counter points aren't even considered

Speaking of :homer:... this kind of blind following reminds me of a Simpson's episode... 

"The leader is good, the leader is great..." 

"nana nana nana nana leader..." 

 

Just substitute Leader for Jerry Jones

Edited by Dr. Dan
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I know that Cooper performed better this week than Antonio Brown did.

All that matters is how Cooper performs now that he is with the Cowboys, his tenure with the Raiders dont matter anymore. Different team, different, QB, different Coach, different owner and different philosophy. Nothing Cooper did with the Raiders matters in fantasy football right now, because so far since he has been a Cowboy he has been a Top 12 WR in my PPR and Standard leagues.

If we are going to unfairly hold Cooper to a higher standard because of his trade value in the NFL, I will hold him to the standard of one game so far, one out performing of the so called best WR in fantasy football. Since Cooper has played a game for the Cowboys he has been better than Brown. What more can you ask of Cooper?

Edited by tackle for loss

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According to the Top 200, Cooper is listed as a top 25 WR (both in standard * .5PPR. 

 

Is the general consensus that he's a WR2 with "upside" the ROS?

 

while anything's possible, I'm skeptical

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On 11/5/2018 at 11:55 PM, Football Jones said:

I'm not going to get suckered in again, LOL.

There are a TON of people who would've liked to have seen Cooper crash & burn. That said, he's not going to score a TD every week nor is he going to have a good game every week. The Cooper trade was more than just about this season.

I'm just talking football, but I don't understand why you would make a post about what I post. Seems kind of silly.

I swear I am not targeting you FJ and I have nothing against Amari.

But...

Yes/No it was all about going all in for this year.  Who makes that in season trade for next year and beyond? I don't know the FA market for 2019 but there will probably be some similar options that won't cost a 1st. And if there aren't then they could always negotiate picks from a better position at that point.

Amari could play well enough to warrant a long term investment at $19 mil/year but that's the secondary value/reason for making the move when they did.

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7 hours ago, 4th&inches said:

According to the Top 200, Cooper is listed as a top 25 WR (both in standard * .5PPR. 

 

Is the general consensus that he's a WR2 with "upside" the ROS?

 

while anything's possible, I'm skeptical

I don’t see why he’s not a high end WR2 with the possibility of WR1 status. He just had a great fantasy game and led the team in receptions after not even two weeks there?  Nowhere to go but up. 

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8 hours ago, 4th&inches said:

According to the Top 200, Cooper is listed as a top 25 WR (both in standard * .5PPR. 

 

Is the general consensus that he's a WR2 with "upside" the ROS?

 

while anything's possible, I'm skeptical

Cooper is a good but not great WR and was added mid-season to a run-first team.  I expect WR3 steady stats of 50 to 60 yards/game but not big games.  I own Cooper and am starting him this week due to bye week issues so I continue to root for him and hope for big games. 

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3 hours ago, Otis said:

I don’t see why he’s not a high end WR2 with the possibility of WR1 status. He just had a great fantasy game and led the team in receptions after not even two weeks there?  Nowhere to go but up. 

I can appreciate your view on him, and his  5/58/1 last week, while a good game (even better when you consider it's his first in a DAL uni), I don't necessarily think it's a "great" fantasy game. And by no means can we extrapolate those stats and say there's nowhere to go but up. I'm definitely optimistic, but am also tempering my expectations of him as I've seen him play over the last few years (albeit in OAK). 

If he could be a mid to low WR2, I'd be ecstatic. Personally, until i see more data points from him in Dallas, i have him pegged as more of a WR3 with potential WR2 upside. 

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13 hours ago, Chaka said:

I swear I am not targeting you FJ and I have nothing against Amari.

But...

Yes/No it was all about going all in for this year.  Who makes that in season trade for next year and beyond? I don't know the FA market for 2019 but there will probably be some similar options that won't cost a 1st. And if there aren't then they could always negotiate picks from a better position at that point.

Amari could play well enough to warrant a long term investment at $19 mil/year but that's the secondary value/reason for making the move when they did.

No need to worry about targeting me, but absolutely NO WAY that trade was mainly about his season.

The details say otherwise. Cooper's age, the fact he has the 5th-year option, not to mention they're already looking at extending him means this trade was more about the future.

You don't give a 1st with the season half-way over unless it mostly about the future, especially with a 3-4 record (at the time of the deal). The trade was a no-brainer for Dallas because young guys who've been productive with no major off the field issues rarely become available, not to mention their need at the position. Teams typically keep players like Cooper instead of trading them away.

The Tate trade was a good example of something done for the current season in mind. Everybody is entitled to their opinion, but make no mistake, this move was mainly about 2019+. If Dallas was worried about his season, alone, a lesser move would've been made. 

Edited by Football Jones

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On 11/6/2018 at 1:49 PM, tackle for loss said:

I know that Cooper performed better this week than Antonio Brown did.

All that matters is how Cooper performs now that he is with the Cowboys, his tenure with the Raiders dont matter anymore. Different team, different, QB, different Coach, different owner and different philosophy. Nothing Cooper did with the Raiders matters in fantasy football right now, because so far since he has been a Cowboy he has been a Top 12 WR in my PPR and Standard leagues.

If we are going to unfairly hold Cooper to a higher standard because of his trade value in the NFL, I will hold him to the standard of one game so far, one out performing of the so called best WR in fantasy football. Since Cooper has played a game for the Cowboys he has been better than Brown. What more can you ask of Cooper?

:lmao:  Day drinking on a Tuesday?

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As much as I like the move for Dallas, I'd temper expectations this season. Cooper has outstanding raw ability, but it's likely going to take time to see the full dynamic of how he helps the offense.

Also, the Cowboys don't have a lot of holes so QB could very well be their next project. A strong passer would REALLY optimize Cooper so there's that upside down the road as far as dynasty leagues.

 

 

Edited by Football Jones

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On 11/6/2018 at 1:49 PM, tackle for loss said:

I know that Cooper performed better this week than Antonio Brown did.

All that matters is how Cooper performs now that he is with the Cowboys, his tenure with the Raiders dont matter anymore. Different team, different, QB, different Coach, different owner and different philosophy. Nothing Cooper did with the Raiders matters in fantasy football right now, because so far since he has been a Cowboy he has been a Top 12 WR in my PPR and Standard leagues.

If we are going to unfairly hold Cooper to a higher standard because of his trade value in the NFL, I will hold him to the standard of one game so far, one out performing of the so called best WR in fantasy football. Since Cooper has played a game for the Cowboys he has been better than Brown. What more can you ask of Cooper?

This is an absurd way to look at Cooper and completely incorrect. I clear example of "I bought him, was pretty disappointed this season, but now I'm going to talk myself into thinking I've got a league winner on my hands."

 

Certainly Cooper's value goes up with the subtraction of Gruden. His situation doesn't change a whole lot though... he goes from one dysfunctional offense with a bad coach and bad QB to another dysfunctional offense with a bad coach and bad QB. I imagine there is pressure from Jerrah to use Cooper since they did pony up a 1st for him. Gruden didn't seem to want to use him, or he didn't fit Gruden's offense for some weird reason. 

Cooper is not better than Antonio Brown. Cooper is at best a WR2 rest of the season. The volume opportunity is intriguing, and I'd be more excited about him on Dallas than the Raiders if I owned him. But at the end of the day he is a WR2. 

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Quote

Amari Cooper - WR -  Cowboys

Amari Cooper caught 6-of-10 targets for 75 yards in the Cowboys' Week 10 win over the Eagles.

Cooper got off to a fast start with 50 yards in the first half. He had just one catch after that, but it's another encouraging game after Cooper scored in his Cowboys' debut. Cooper was open on multiple downfield plays, but was overthrown by Dak Prescott. His rest-of-season value is up in Dallas, where Cooper is the clear featured wideout. Cooper is a WR2 for a Week 11 matchup with the Falcons.

Nov 11 - 11:50 PM

 

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8 minutes ago, Faust said:

 

Watching Cooper play with Cowboys, and looking at how he breaks off the line, creates separation, runs great routes and gets open, and it is hard to understand why he failed so badly last two years in Oakland. Anyone who thought he can't play is dead wrong.

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1 minute ago, az_prof said:

Watching Cooper play with Cowboys, and looking at how he breaks off the line, creates separation, runs great routes and gets open, and it is hard to understand why he failed so badly last two years in Oakland. Anyone who thought he can't play is dead wrong.

He disappears at times with effort problems and has had issues with drops.  Carr would also go towards Crabtree more during clutch situations.

Keep in mind he still had two 1k yard season coming in, then was injured last season playing banged up and this season was a #### show in Oakland.  The talent is there he's in a great situation.

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1 minute ago, Skeletore Eh said:

this is the play darby tore his acl, so...

Instead of breaking ankles, he's tearing ACL's? 

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2 minutes ago, Skeletore Eh said:

this is the play darby tore his acl, so...

#### now that I watch it again knowing that is not as impressive. Poor kid. He was gutting it out like a Japanese relay runner girl

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4 minutes ago, tombonneau said:

#### now that I watch it again knowing that is not as impressive. Poor kid. He was gutting it out like a Japanese relay runner girl

yeah sucks for darby.   would have gotten paid this offseason, and paid well

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10 hours ago, tombonneau said:

Dude can play. Period. 

 

10 hours ago, menobrown said:

What do you base that conclusion?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3adOPE0W08

this is just one example of giving up on a route.  i'm not going to find the other ones but i've watched every amari game since he got drafted and they've been times where he just doesn't finish routes.  great route runner when he actually runs them tho.  

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Yeah got to used to Carr getting rid of the ball so quickly earlier this season.

you also see him looking at Bryant as if he thought the ball went to that route, how many times has Carr gone deep this year.

5 hours ago, flipcuplegend said:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3adOPE0W08

this is just one example of giving up on a route.  i'm not going to find the other ones but i've watched every amari game since he got drafted and they've been times where he just doesn't finish routes.  great route runner when he actually runs them tho.  

Got another example there?

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12 hours ago, flipcuplegend said:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3adOPE0W08

this is just one example of giving up on a route.  i'm not going to find the other ones but i've watched every amari game since he got drafted and they've been times where he just doesn't finish routes.  great route runner when he actually runs them tho.  

Sorry but that's pretty inconclusive,  seems more miscommunication to me. I've also watched every game of his and don't think he gives up on his routes but the way he was often ignored in Oakland I would.

 

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God help me I'm likely going to start him this week over Alshon who has a tough match up and Baldwin who plain stinks.

Depending on PPR volume and targeting, as opposed to Cooper and this offense's talent. Despite the 1K seasons, Cooper has never solidified himself as a bona fide WR1 in this league, and the current DAL offense -- run first, run often, and rely on Dak's mobility -- isn't exactly set up to fully take advantage of a bona fide WR1.

 

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24 minutes ago, oswizzle said:

so far averaging around 15 points per game... WR2 with WR1 upside ...Big games coming 

Not in my league he's not, but safe to assume in his last two games he's netted near or over 10 points average for owners in both PPR and standard. So definitely better upside (I'd argue not really WR1 however). 

A better baseline to hang hats on for all is that he's averaging 9 targets per game instead of 5.3 in the games he had as a Raider -- that 5.3 also disguises a bit of a skewed distribution as it's thrown off by just two games with over 10 targets with the rest with 5 or less (including two games where Cooper had just a single target).

He's also averaging 5.5 receptions vs 3.7 with the Raiders.

With better volume comes better chance of success. I still don't think the DAL offense is one that delivers a lot of aerial firepower, but the increased volume definitely makes Cooper more useable as a WR2/flex than he was as a Raider.

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I am starting to think that a big chunk of Amari Cooper's issues in Oakland were Derek Carr related. I still see that presser after their 2nd/3rd game (big dud for Cooper) where Gruden is obviously pissed, stating that Amari Cooper is running wide open and the QB has to find him.

He is MUCH more engaged and involved in Dallas. Maybe it's the newness of it all, and it wears off over time? For now it's good (hopefully pointing towards great).

Carr is like a mayfly... he may have been a beautiful thing to see at one time... but now he's just laying spent on the surface, going wherever the currents will carry him before getting swallowed up. Like his brother.

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3 hours ago, Dizzy said:

I am starting to think that a big chunk of Amari Cooper's issues in Oakland were Derek Carr related.

He is MUCH more engaged and involved in Dallas. Maybe it's the newness of it all, and it wears off over time? For now it's good (hopefully pointing towards great).

 

The bolded suggests this has been a problem for him and I don't agree that it has. I just don't think all those games he disappeared was because he was not engaged in anyway.

The issue you addressed already in the opening line. Carr. Read a telling tweet/stat earlier today on Carr that to me is so telling. This past Sunday was the 4th or 5th time in his career he threw the ball away on 4th down.

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1 hour ago, menobrown said:

The bolded suggests this has been a problem for him and I don't agree that it has. I just don't think all those games he disappeared was because he was not engaged in anyway.

The issue you addressed already in the opening line. Carr. Read a telling tweet/stat earlier today on Carr that to me is so telling. This past Sunday was the 4th or 5th time in his career he threw the ball away on 4th down.

He hasn't been the same since that late season injury a few years back IMO.

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On 11/13/2018 at 3:50 PM, Dizzy said:

He hasn't been the same since that late season injury a few years back IMO.

Carr has never been good when pressured, dated back to college. It's why he (rightfully) fell in the draft. The Raiders, and really all of football, were duped by Carr's 2016 season where he played behind the best pass blocking OL in the league. The OL has fallen apart since, and so has he.

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4 hours ago, tombonneau said:

So who is starting him today? I might be forced into it. Has Josh Norman been that good this year or still coasting off hype of one season with Carolina?

Have him in as WR-3 over Baldwin

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6 hours ago, tombonneau said:

So who is starting him today? I might be forced into it. Has Josh Norman been that good this year or still coasting off hype of one season with Carolina?

Norman has not been as elite this year as in past years -- he has been beat a lot.

That said, Cooper isn't historically stellar when pressed in coverage. Between him and Alshon Jeffrey for me, and I think I'm going with Jeffrey -- Alshon is also a risky play as he is up and down, and Tate is likely going to be utilized more and more. 

Not sure of it, but that's how I'm rolling.

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6 hours ago, tombonneau said:

So who is starting him today? I might be forced into it. Has Josh Norman been that good this year or still coasting off hype of one season with Carolina?

Have him in as a WR3. With Hill on a bye, I don't have much of a choice. I'm not expecting very much, though.

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4 minutes ago, IheartGuinness said:

Have him in as a WR3. With Hill on a bye, I don't have much of a choice. I'm not expecting very much, though.

Yeah I'm in the Hill bye boat too. Someone smack me in the face, but was actually considering going with Doctson over him. Showed some life with McCoy in. And I'm playing the guy who cut Doctson this year in dynasty which would be a fun subplot.

Thanks for those pointing out Norman has been a little off. Feelign a little better about having to go with Coop.

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