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fantasycurse42

Ronnie Hillman, Denver 1/3 STARTING RB

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Very frustrating. Not sure what happend that took CJ from looking like the next in line, getting some touches, to deactivated last week, to not getting any touches this week. Something must have happened. Well at least I can free up another roster spot. :yucky:

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At least I have Hillman as the clear starter now going forward.

Until Ball comes back.

Yea, bc Trent 2014 was so dominant. I say this as a Ball owner, FYI.

I didn't say he would be good. I just not sure about the "clear starter" designation being applied to any of them after Ball returns.

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The irony with Lammey is that he pimped Hillman hard in his first couple of years, then after he disappointed, Hillman was trashed by Lammey almost as much as Moreno...and now we're here and he's still driving the CJ Anderson express.

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Cecil will no doubt find a way to explain this away.

He won't offer an explanation. Bloom will say something about the "theory of rational coaching," which is shorthand for saying that Anderson is the better player, and John Fox is just being dumb. They will then mention Hillman in the waiver wire show later this week, which is too late in 90% of leagues.

And to be clear, I'm a big fan of the Audible and Cecil/Bloom's work. But sometimes they have their favorites and they'll overlook things. Everyone has bias. Bloom thinks Anderson is the better player, and who's to say he's wrong, but sometimes you can outsmart yourself when you start talking about which player has better lateral agility or power between the tackles and ignore things like Anderson being a healthy scratch a week ago. Sometimes bias is a good thing, sometimes it's blinding.

Hopefully nobody took Hillman over Anderson on the wire. Ironically I had leagues where Anderson has been rostered for weeks and Hillman was sitting out there, no doubt a testament to the influence of FBG's and other fantasy guys who were also pimping Anderson.

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Someone is being very un-dude in here.

It's Hillman job accept it and move on.

I am not sure what people are reading, I don't dispute it's his job - for at least another week. But there are enough bad carries in there to be concerned that somebody like Thompson may be called upon to do more.

I don't think you know as much about football as you think you do.

Bad carries >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no carries.

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Someone is being very un-dude in here.

It's Hillman job accept it and move on.

I am not sure what people are reading, I don't dispute it's his job - for at least another week. But there are enough bad carries in there to be concerned that somebody like Thompson may be called upon to do more.

I don't think you know as much about football as you think you do.

Bad carries >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no carries.

There's also the hugely flawed assumption that a 2 yard carry on paper = a carry that the coaches will consider a "bad carry" by the RB.

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Someone is being very un-dude in here.

It's Hillman job accept it and move on.

I am not sure what people are reading, I don't dispute it's his job - for at least another week. But there are enough bad carries in there to be concerned that somebody like Thompson may be called upon to do more.

I don't think you know as much about football as you think you do.

Bad carries >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no carries.

There's also the hugely flawed assumption that a 2 yard carry on paper = a carry that the coaches will consider a "bad carry" by the RB.

It's not about a 2 yard carry - it's about like 16 of them. Same way it wouldn't be about 1-2 long runs (if that was all he had).

Only time will tell. I see plenty of opportunity for Thompson to cut into Hillman's carries as soon as next week.

And it will be fun as it's on national TV.

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The irony with Lammey is that he pimped Hillman hard in his first couple of years, then after he disappointed, Hillman was trashed by Lammey almost as much as Moreno...and now we're here and he's still driving the CJ Anderson express.

It's funny cause on the last show, Bloom was almost covering for him like he was his mother.

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Very frustrating. Not sure what happend that took CJ from looking like the next in line, getting some touches, to deactivated last week, to not getting any touches this week. Something must have happened. Well at least I can free up another roster spot. :yucky:

That's exactly my question too. CJ was producing five yards a clip and by all accounts was liked by the staff. Then he's randomly deactivated, and then he doesn't touch the ball. I'm floored.

Guess it's just time to move on, but I really don't understand what happened with CJ.

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So now Thompson is the new flavor of the month.

The Broncos were more then content to keep trotting out Ball despite below average performance. They will be just as content to keep trotting out Hillman. Until Ball gets back the only thing that will change Hillman's status as the primary back in this offense (by a wide margin) is injury or fumbles in key situations. But inefficient running, which it wasn't, won't allow anyone to pass him on the depth chart.

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Very frustrating. Not sure what happend that took CJ from looking like the next in line, getting some touches, to deactivated last week, to not getting any touches this week. Something must have happened. Well at least I can free up another roster spot. :yucky:

That's exactly my question too. CJ was producing five yards a clip and by all accounts was liked by the staff. Then he's randomly deactivated, and then he doesn't touch the ball. I'm floored.

Guess it's just time to move on, but I really don't understand what happened with CJ.

I'm going with the notion that the Broncos don't think he is as good as Hillman, Thompson.

Clearly they don't think he is as good as people in here think.

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Listening to the Audible recap - Bloom has given you all permission to cut Anderson.

Thanks. Was waiting for that.

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You guys got this figured out yet?

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You guys got this figured out yet?

Yup.

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It's not about a 2 yard carry - it's about like 16 of them. Same way it wouldn't be about 1-2 long runs (if that was all he had).

Only time will tell. I see plenty of opportunity for Thompson to cut into Hillman's carries as soon as next week.

And it will be fun as it's on national TV.

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

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So now Thompson is the new flavor of the month.

The Broncos were more then content to keep trotting out Ball despite below average performance. They will be just as content to keep trotting out Hillman. Until Ball gets back the only thing that will change Hillman's status as the primary back in this offense (by a wide margin) is injury or fumbles in key situations. But inefficient running, which it wasn't, won't allow anyone to pass him on the depth chart.

He already fumbled once yesterday and was lucky the Broncos recovered.....It seems he's a fumble waiting to happen...

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So now Thompson is the new flavor of the month.

The Broncos were more then content to keep trotting out Ball despite below average performance. They will be just as content to keep trotting out Hillman. Until Ball gets back the only thing that will change Hillman's status as the primary back in this offense (by a wide margin) is injury or fumbles in key situations. But inefficient running, which it wasn't, won't allow anyone to pass him on the depth chart.

He already fumbled once yesterday and was lucky the Broncos recovered.....It seems he's a fumble waiting to happen...

So? They kept giving him the ball afterwards. If you pick up Thompson or Anderson you are hoping for a fumble at a critical moment or an injury, which isn't a great talent evaluation strategy.

The only real question is if Hillman keeps performing like yesterday is will Ball regain his full time gig or will there be a bigger split?

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Be nice if people provided some analysis - rather than let who they own determine their objectivity.

Thompsons carries

5

3

1

16

3

4

3

3

Not saying I am right but if I were a coach I would say what we need is more Thompson and his consistency with a balance of Hillman's speed. It's the best of both worlds - RBBC.

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Be nice if people provided some analysis - rather than let who they own determine their objectivity.

Thompsons carries

5

3

1

16

3

4

3

3

Not saying I am right but if I were a coach I would say what we need is more Thompson and his consistency with a balance of Hillman's speed. It's the best of both worlds - RBBC.

Yesterday you were criticizing Hillman because only 30% of his carries went for more than 4 yards. But Thompson's rate is even worse (25%).

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Be nice if people provided some analysis - rather than let who they own determine their objectivity.

Analysis:

Hillman 27 touches, 116 yards, 4.4 yards/touch

Thompson 9 touches, 38 yards 4.2 yards/touch

That's pretty much all you need to know.

It would also be nice if people didn't make false assumptions. I currently own Ball & Anderson I am just objective enough to recognize that this is Hillman's job and Thompson is there to spell him.

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It would also be nice if people did not cache their hopes as analysis.

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Hillman took over last week. He was named the starter. Peyton called him out by name and said they were counting on him.

What did people think here? He was entrenched enough to get the bulk, including closing out the game, after fumbling.

Entrenched as the starter. I'd expect the others to get a few, with Hillman closer to 15-18 in the next few games, but he's the man.

Gonna be funny when Ball comes back...bc he will take back over, but we will have to go through this whole process again. There is a reason he won the job to start the year.

The right answer is in your face guys, stop looking elsewhere.

If Hillman continues at this clip, it would be absurd for the coaches to put Ball back in. Hillman put up 100 yards on a pretty good run defense. Ball has had plenty of chances and has thoroughly stunk it up.

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Hillman took over last week. He was named the starter. Peyton called him out by name and said they were counting on him.

What did people think here? He was entrenched enough to get the bulk, including closing out the game, after fumbling.

Entrenched as the starter. I'd expect the others to get a few, with Hillman closer to 15-18 in the next few games, but he's the man.

Gonna be funny when Ball comes back...bc he will take back over, but we will have to go through this whole process again. There is a reason he won the job to start the year.

The right answer is in your face guys, stop looking elsewhere.

If Hillman continues at this clip, it would be absurd for the coaches to put Ball back in. Hillman put up 100 yards on a pretty good run defense. Ball has had plenty of chances and has thoroughly stunk it up.

Hillman's performance definitely does not bode well for Ball maintaining his previous workload. He will still be the starter and still get the bulk of touches but his touches might drop by 10-20%

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Alright, time to move along. I will see you all in this thread on Sunday night.

If you own Hillman, good luck. I would still pick up Thompson.

If you own Anderson.......

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Be nice if people provided some analysis - rather than let who they own determine their objectivity.

Thompsons carries

5

3

1

16

3

4

3

3

Not saying I am right but if I were a coach I would say what we need is more Thompson and his consistency with a balance of Hillman's speed. It's the best of both worlds - RBBC.

Yesterday you were criticizing Hillman because only 30% of his carries went for more than 4 yards. But Thompson's rate is even worse (25%).

One more cuz this is so indicativie of the lack of objectivity (no offense to Summer directly)

Hillman 10 of 23 carries under 3 yards - 43% (almost half the time you handed the ball to him you would have been better of not doing it)

Thompson 1 of 8 under 3 13%

You can choose to slice these stats however you want to make your argument - you can use the even lamer average per carry stat - that's why I listed all the carries. Which you guys didn't like because ti doesn't paint as pretty a picture.

It may all work out for Hillman - which is fine - I am just stating there are signs that it's not coming up all roses like you guys paint it. Keep on thinking in the now - I love guys like that in my league.

See you Sunday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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So now Thompson is the new flavor of the month.

The Broncos were more then content to keep trotting out Ball despite below average performance. They will be just as content to keep trotting out Hillman. Until Ball gets back the only thing that will change Hillman's status as the primary back in this offense (by a wide margin) is injury or fumbles in key situations. But inefficient running, which it wasn't, won't allow anyone to pass him on the depth chart.

He already fumbled once yesterday and was lucky the Broncos recovered.....It seems he's a fumble waiting to happen...

So? They kept giving him the ball afterwards. If you pick up Thompson or Anderson you are hoping for a fumble at a critical moment or an injury, which isn't a great talent evaluation strategy.

The only real question is if Hillman keeps performing like yesterday is will Ball regain his full time gig or will there be a bigger split?

He's RB that has a propensity to fumble. Unless you have loads of talent, being a fumbler is a major risk. Fumbles have already derailed him a couple of times....

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Cecil will no doubt find a way to explain this away.

He won't offer an explanation. Bloom will say something about the "theory of rational coaching," which is shorthand for saying that Anderson is the better player, and John Fox is just being dumb. They will then mention Hillman in the waiver wire show later this week, which is too late in 90% of leagues.

And to be clear, I'm a big fan of the Audible and Cecil/Bloom's work. But sometimes they have their favorites and they'll overlook things. Everyone has bias. Bloom thinks Anderson is the better player, and who's to say he's wrong, but sometimes you can outsmart yourself when you start talking about which player has better lateral agility or power between the tackles and ignore things like Anderson being a healthy scratch a week ago. Sometimes bias is a good thing, sometimes it's blinding.

Hopefully nobody took Hillman over Anderson on the wire. Ironically I had leagues where Anderson has been rostered for weeks and Hillman was sitting out there, no doubt a testament to the influence of FBG's and other fantasy guys who were also pimping Anderson.

In all my leagues Anderson was rostered prior to last week and Hillman was the hot waiver add as well. That's how the RB tier looked in Denver up until last week so it's not just the influence of FBGs/experts. Sadly I own both Ball and Anderson and was massively outbid for Hillman. I'd rather just cut bait on the whole situation and trade Ball to the new Hillman owner at this rate.

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Be nice if people provided some analysis - rather than let who they own determine their objectivity.

Thompsons carries

5

3

1

16

3

4

3

3

Not saying I am right but if I were a coach I would say what we need is more Thompson and his consistency with a balance of Hillman's speed. It's the best of both worlds - RBBC.

Yesterday you were criticizing Hillman because only 30% of his carries went for more than 4 yards. But Thompson's rate is even worse (25%).

One more cuz this is so indicativie of the lack of objectivity (no offense to Summer directly)

Hillman 10 of 23 carries under 3 yards - 43% (almost half the time you handed the ball to him you would have been better of not doing it)

Thompson 1 of 8 under 3 13%

You can choose to slice these stats however you want to make your argument - you can use the even lamer average per carry stat - that's why I listed all the carries. Which you guys didn't like because ti doesn't paint as pretty a picture.

It may all work out for Hillman - which is fine - I am just stating there are signs that it's not coming up all roses like you guys paint it. Keep on thinking in the now - I love guys like that in my league.

See you Sunday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes you can slice the stats however you want which is why you changed your analysis to suit your conclusion, after your first analysis broke down.

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So now Thompson is the new flavor of the month.

The Broncos were more then content to keep trotting out Ball despite below average performance. They will be just as content to keep trotting out Hillman. Until Ball gets back the only thing that will change Hillman's status as the primary back in this offense (by a wide margin) is injury or fumbles in key situations. But inefficient running, which it wasn't, won't allow anyone to pass him on the depth chart.

He already fumbled once yesterday and was lucky the Broncos recovered.....It seems he's a fumble waiting to happen...

So? They kept giving him the ball afterwards. If you pick up Thompson or Anderson you are hoping for a fumble at a critical moment or an injury, which isn't a great talent evaluation strategy.

The only real question is if Hillman keeps performing like yesterday is will Ball regain his full time gig or will there be a bigger split?

He's RB that has a propensity to fumble. Unless you have loads of talent, being a fumbler is a major risk. Fumbles have already derailed him a couple of times....

Yes he does have a propensity to fumble, and he fumbled against the Jets on the way to 27 touches. The latter number speaks volumes about how Denver views their RB situation.

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Be nice if people provided some analysis - rather than let who they own determine their objectivity.

Thompsons carries

5

3

1

16

3

4

3

3

Not saying I am right but if I were a coach I would say what we need is more Thompson and his consistency with a balance of Hillman's speed. It's the best of both worlds - RBBC.

Yesterday you were criticizing Hillman because only 30% of his carries went for more than 4 yards. But Thompson's rate is even worse (25%).

One more cuz this is so indicativie of the lack of objectivity (no offense to Summer directly)

Hillman 10 of 23 carries under 3 yards - 43% (almost half the time you handed the ball to him you would have been better of not doing it)

Thompson 1 of 8 under 3 13%

You can choose to slice these stats however you want to make your argument - you can use the even lamer average per carry stat - that's why I listed all the carries. Which you guys didn't like because ti doesn't paint as pretty a picture.

It may all work out for Hillman - which is fine - I am just stating there are signs that it's not coming up all roses like you guys paint it. Keep on thinking in the now - I love guys like that in my league.

See you Sunday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do you have any clue at all how ironic your bolded statement is?

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You have to love people that come in here with a biased conclusion and work their way backwards to explain their conclusion with hand-picked partial stats and "I saw it with my own eyes" talent evaluations.

Hillman out-touched Thompson three to one. Hillman was in at the goal line and to close out the game when Denver needed to run down the clock and a first down to essentially ice it. I guess the Denver coaching staff saw things a bit differently than the Dude.

Now for my biased viewpoint; As far as the fumble, it looked like Hillman got blind-sided by Richardson, a fast 300-pounder. The rest of the time he had two hands on the ball. If Denver was worried about him fumbling, then they didn't show it when they had him touch it so many times down the stretch.

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Vereen is far more than a mere backup

Vereen is not a backup and is clearly the best rb talked about here

If that's the way you see it then you keep him!

I don't own him in a single league.

But if I did I would keep him as he is far more than a mere backup.

45th in PPG in my league. It's tough to imagine a league where he is a RB#2 let alone a RB#1

RB1 or RB2?

What are you talking about ??

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These boards are becoming utterly useless thanks to posters like the ones found in this thread.

Yup.

I just skipped ahead when I got to this post.

I may have to drop Anderson (picked him up for free) in my main redraft league.

Hillman did fine other than the fumble

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Be nice if people provided some analysis - rather than let who they own determine their objectivity.

Analysis:

Hillman 27 touches, 116 yards, 4.4 yards/touch

Thompson 9 touches, 38 yards 4.2 yards/touch

That's pretty much all you need to know.

It would also be nice if people didn't make false assumptions. I currently own Ball & Anderson I am just objective enough to recognize that this is Hillman's job and Thompson is there to spell him.

It's Hillman's job, but I'd be lying if I didn't say I was scared every time he carries the ball. His fumbling issue is real.

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Vereen is far more than a mere backup

Vereen is not a backup and is clearly the best rb talked about here

If that's the way you see it then you keep him!

I don't own him in a single league.

But if I did I would keep him as he is far more than a mere backup.

45th in PPG in my league. It's tough to imagine a league where he is a RB#2 let alone a RB#1

RB1 or RB2?

What are you talking about ??

I'm talking about the fact that if he isn't putting up RB1 or RB2 (or RB3, or RB4) numbers then he is not "far more then a mere backup."

He may be very valuable to the Patriots offense but he has been a fantasy nightmare.

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Vereen is far more than a mere backup

Vereen is not a backup and is clearly the best rb talked about here

If that's the way you see it then you keep him!

I don't own him in a single league.

But if I did I would keep him as he is far more than a mere backup.

45th in PPG in my league. It's tough to imagine a league where he is a RB#2 let alone a RB#1

RB1 or RB2?

What are you talking about ??

I'm talking about the fact that if he isn't putting up RB1 or RB2 (or RB3, or RB4) numbers then he is not "far more then a mere backup."

He may be very valuable to the Patriots offense but he has been a fantasy nightmare.

This started by talking about being an "NFL starter" or backup.

In the NFL Vereen is far more than a mere backup

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Vereen is far more than a mere backup

Vereen is not a backup and is clearly the best rb talked about here

If that's the way you see it then you keep him!

I don't own him in a single league.

But if I did I would keep him as he is far more than a mere backup.

45th in PPG in my league. It's tough to imagine a league where he is a RB#2 let alone a RB#1

RB1 or RB2?

What are you talking about ??

I'm talking about the fact that if he isn't putting up RB1 or RB2 (or RB3, or RB4) numbers then he is not "far more then a mere backup."

He may be very valuable to the Patriots offense but he has been a fantasy nightmare.

This started by talking about being an "NFL starter" or backup.

In the NFL Vereen is far more than a mere backup

Meh.

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Vereen is far more than a mere backup

Vereen is not a backup and is clearly the best rb talked about here

If that's the way you see it then you keep him!

I don't own him in a single league.

But if I did I would keep him as he is far more than a mere backup.

45th in PPG in my league. It's tough to imagine a league where he is a RB#2 let alone a RB#1

RB1 or RB2?

What are you talking about ??

I'm talking about the fact that if he isn't putting up RB1 or RB2 (or RB3, or RB4) numbers then he is not "far more then a mere backup."

He may be very valuable to the Patriots offense but he has been a fantasy nightmare.

This started by talking about being an "NFL starter" or backup.

In the NFL Vereen is far more than a mere backup

Meh.

lol, perfect response.

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Be nice if people provided some analysis - rather than let who they own determine their objectivity.

Thompsons carries

5

3

1

16

3

4

3

3

Not saying I am right but if I were a coach I would say what we need is more Thompson and his consistency with a balance of Hillman's speed. It's the best of both worlds - RBBC.

That's not analysis. Those numbers are literally useless without knowing the type of play called, the down and distance, and how the blocking was. Your entire "argument" is based on the presumption that every running play is designed to go for 4 ypc, and a RB can be judged based on how many yards he got on a play relative to that number. It's simply not true.

Some plays are designed to be safer, where you might have a double team at the point of attack, which increases the chances of a second level defender being free to make a tackle. Some plays are riskier, looking for more upside, like a counter, which requires more of the offensive lineman and basically gambles on the defense biting on a misdirection component of the play.

Then of course there's the obvious fact that the yardage on a play is a function of a lot more factors than just how good the RB is playing. Did a pulling guard trip? Did the tackle miss his assignment or not get to the second level as quickly as he should've? Did the defense happen to have the perfect blitz called?

It's incredibly simplistic to say "this RBhad 9 plays under 4 yards, he played bad!"

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Be nice if people provided some analysis - rather than let who they own determine their objectivity.

Thompsons carries

5

3

1

16

3

4

3

3

Not saying I am right but if I were a coach I would say what we need is more Thompson and his consistency with a balance of Hillman's speed. It's the best of both worlds - RBBC.

Yesterday you were criticizing Hillman because only 30% of his carries went for more than 4 yards. But Thompson's rate is even worse (25%).

One more cuz this is so indicativie of the lack of objectivity (no offense to Summer directly)

Hillman 10 of 23 carries under 3 yards - 43% (almost half the time you handed the ball to him you would have been better of not doing it)

Thompson 1 of 8 under 3 13%

You can choose to slice these stats however you want to make your argument - you can use the even lamer average per carry stat - that's why I listed all the carries. Which you guys didn't like because ti doesn't paint as pretty a picture.

It may all work out for Hillman - which is fine - I am just stating there are signs that it's not coming up all roses like you guys paint it. Keep on thinking in the now - I love guys like that in my league.

See you Sunday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yesterday you considered 3 and under to be a bad carry for Hillman. Now for Thompson you change the criteria to under 3 yards.

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Listening to the Audible recap - Bloom has given you all permission to cut Anderson.

picking him up now

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Listening to the Audible recap - Bloom has given you all permission to cut Anderson.

picking him up now

:lmao:

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I thought Thompson looked the best, and I have Hillman on my team. :shrug:

YMMV

I thought Thompson looked like a better runner than Hillman, but I don't think that really matters in the pecking order. The depth chart was set based on hundreds of practice reps. A handful of live-game carries where he was slightly better aren't going to make the slightest difference.

And I still think they all lose their jobs to Ball once he comes back.

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Very frustrating. Not sure what happend that took CJ from looking like the next in line, getting some touches, to deactivated last week, to not getting any touches this week. Something must have happened. Well at least I can free up another roster spot. :yucky:

That's exactly my question too. CJ was producing five yards a clip and by all accounts was liked by the staff. Then he's randomly deactivated, and then he doesn't touch the ball. I'm floored.

Guess it's just time to move on, but I really don't understand what happened with CJ.

In fairness, Anderson was always behind Hillman. In week 4 of the preseason Hillman got the game off and Anderson had to play, the surest sign that the coaches had Hillman running ahead. Hillman wound up in the hospital after the game, and the rumors (which I find credible, based on the evidence) were that Hillman was doing something he shouldn't have been doing and wound up in the coaches' doghouse. Anderson was ahead of Hillman for a couple of weeks, Hillman worked his way out of the doghouse, and then he went back to the #2 role.

I always feel nervous about Hillman just because John Elway has called him a Change of Pace back so many times, but I think he's probably got the job locked down until Ball gets back.

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You guys can have fun with Hillman, Anderson is the guy you want.

This is the post everyone should have paid attention to. Eminence moves markets....

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Hillman has already shown who he is last year. He won't last. I'm trying to get CJ if I can.

Good luck, coming off that 0 carries for 0 yards performance he's gonna be a very hot add this week.

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Hillman has already shown who he is last year. He won't last. I'm trying to get CJ if I can.

Keep holding out hope, you never know when 2013 will roll back around again.

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Hillman has already shown who he is last year. He won't last. I'm trying to get CJ if I can.

Funny because most people (myself included) were saying the same thing about Moreno last year.

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