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Merged Spygate thread (1 Viewer)

Why are y'all SO sensitive about this issue? All shtick aside... why?

Fwiw, spygate alone is not the reason so many don't like the Pats coaches / organization. It's actually an interesting dichotomy.

Outside the lines, the Patriots are as classy as it gets (from what we see/hear as NFL fans). When it comes to the game itself, that is where the questions lie (again, from what we see/hear)

 
FYI... apparently, this thread is old hat now.

Maybe not my best work. I apologize. Fun as hell, nonetheless.

:cheers: for the banter, Patsies.

PS: Cheers is not a smiley? Not good Joe and Dave. Lets get with it before Nipsey finds out.

 
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Great could tell this was biased as soon as I saw a NE fan posted. Did it matter in a 2 touchdown game....maybe not. Did it matter in the Superbowls coming down to last plays/drives, hell yes.

 
bostonfred said:
Out of curiosity, what did you think would happen when you started this thread?
Click to expand...
My hope is we can stick to the facts and those who want a real discussion and those who want to hate\taunt will expose themselves soon enough. Lets ignore the haters and try to work constructively and see if we can't get somewhere.

 
Since we know stealing signals was\is legal, I think it makes sense to start with the rules that were in place before and after 2006.

In summary (also from wiki), the Sept 2006 memo said:

In a September 2006 memorandum sent out by NFL Vice President of Football Operations Ray Anderson, though, all teams were told that "videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game
Click to expand...
So we know between Sept of 2006 and Sept of 2007 BB and co violated the 2006 memorandum.

Does anyone have a link to the video taping of signals rules that were in place before the Sept 2006 memo?

All I have been able to find is a reference to page 105 section of the NFL handbook below. I don't pretend that a Wikipedia page is authoritative, but the page does have some good info on it so I am going to reference it with that caveat that I would welcome any challenges to the validity of its contents. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_National_Football_League_videotaping_controversy

Page 105 of the 2007 NFL Game Operations Manual states, "No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game...All video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead."[17] Belichick stated that he believed that if footage so collected was not used during the game, its collection was legal, as the NFL Constitution and Bylaws stipulate that "...any communications or information-gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, shall be prohibited...including without limitation...any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game."[18] In a September 2006 memorandum sent out by NFL Vice President of Football Operations Ray Anderson, though, all teams were told that "videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game."[18]
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Does anyone have the specific rule(s) that stated video taping signals was illegal?

 
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As I said, I will earnestly try to engage anyone who wants to have a serious discussion and I urge everyone to ignore the haters and see if we can't get somewhere.

 
Remember how good the Jags were 15 years ago? They stink now, so it makes me fell good to talk about how good they were back then.

 
so I cut Jerod Mayo today because he hurt his leg. that's a bummer.

is there anyone worth picking up in pats for IDP whilst he's out? assuming Josh McDaniels doesn't have his buddy Steve Scarnecchia videotaping more pregame walkthroughs for the pats, is there a legit IDP option on the D? Jamie Collins maybe?

also, Go Bills

 
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Wasn’t the Rams (Marshall Faulk) issue was that their walk through a few days before the Super Bowl being filmed by the Patriots not the signal stealing?

It was a long time ago so I really don’t recall the whole situation

 
Yenrub said:
Wasn’t the Rams (Marshall Faulk) issue was that their walk through a few days before the Super Bowl being filmed by the Patriots not the signal stealing?

It was a long time ago so I really don’t recall the whole situation
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yes, and after Scarnecchia was caught videotaping a 49ers walkthrough, current and former pats OC Josh McDaniels went on to tell the Denver staff how the pats coached and worked on the taping.

“That was practiced, that was coached, that was worked on,” McDaniels said in reference to the Patriots’ past practices, per Glazer.
Click to expand...
 
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“We didn’t lose the game because of any 'Spygate,' because of them having any additional things,” Cowher told 93.7 The Fan on Wednesday. “[if] they’re guilty of anything they’re guilty of arrogance because they were told not to do something but it was something everybody does. They got caught doing it with a camera.”
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ILLEGAL.

 
Did the Patriots steal signals? Did Oswald act alone? Animal House or Caddy Shack?

In the end it doesn't really matter... no hard feelings.

 
Amazing how Pats fans went from near dynasty to pathetic, whining, laughingstock so quickly.

I guess cheating and hubris catches up to ya.

 
NE_REVIVAL said:
bostonfred said:
Out of curiosity, what did you think would happen when you started this thread?
Click to expand...
My hope is we can stick to the facts and those who want a real discussion and those who want to hate\taunt will expose themselves soon enough. Lets ignore the haters and try to work constructively and see if we can't get somewhere.
Click to expand...
I care little enough about spygate that I didn't know that other thread existed, nor do I care to open it. The thing is haters on message boards didn't destroy non-existant evidence so they could have an excuse to troll NE fans. Goddell destroyed evidence for reasons still unknown, as if discovery of said evidence would've been a breach of national security. There are your facts. It's open to interperation I guess. I don't know how incriminating the evidence was. What I do know is that the league didn't want me to know. That in itself is pretty sketchy imo. It's not something I ever bring up but if others want to, well, suck it up; other fans get trolled for a lot less. And stop with the faux left-brain objective approach pretending like you're a cross between Joe Friday and Ed Murrow.

 
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NE_REVIVAL said:
Since we know stealing signals was\is legal, I think it makes sense to start with the rules that were in place before and after 2006.

In summary (also from wiki), the Sept 2006 memo said:

In a September 2006 memorandum sent out by NFL Vice President of Football Operations Ray Anderson, though, all teams were told that "videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game
Click to expand...
So we know between Sept of 2006 and Sept of 2007 BB and co violated the 2006 memorandum.

Does anyone have a link to the video taping of signals rules that were in place before the Sept 2006 memo?

All I have been able to find is a reference to page 105 section of the NFL handbook below. I don't pretend that a Wikipedia page is authoritative, but the page does have some good info on it so I am going to reference it with that caveat that I would welcome any challenges to the validity of its contents. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_National_Football_League_videotaping_controversy

Page 105 of the 2007 NFL Game Operations Manual states, "No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game...All video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead."[17] Belichick stated that he believed that if footage so collected was not used during the game, its collection was legal, as the NFL Constitution and Bylaws stipulate that "...any communications or information-gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, shall be prohibited...including without limitation...any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game."[18] In a September 2006 memorandum sent out by NFL Vice President of Football Operations Ray Anderson, though, all teams were told that "videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game."[18]
Click to expand...
Does anyone have the specific rule(s) that stated video taping signals was illegal?
Click to expand...
No one even has the signal taping rule they allegedly broke?

I'm challenging you to debate without the hate.

It appears defending the Patriots from scurrilous accusations isn't the hard part.

The hard part is finding someone, anyone willing to have an honest discussion on the subject; that and ignoring the noise from the haters.

 
First of all, what did you expect him to say? He's part of the coaching fraternity plus whining about cheating is pretty damned uncool for a head coach.

Secondly, he said this:

“Stealing someone’s signals was a part of the game and everybody attempted to do that. We had people that always tried to steal signals,” said Cowher, whose 2004 team won 16 consecutive games before losing to the Patriots in the AFC title game. “What happened when we lost that game is they outplayed us. It had nothing to do with stealing signals or cheating or anything else.”
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Yes, during the game and on the field. He didn't say the Steelers were filming the Pats' or others' games at any time.

 
NE_REVIVAL said:
NE_REVIVAL said:
Since we know stealing signals was\is legal, I think it makes sense to start with the rules that were in place before and after 2006.

In summary (also from wiki), the Sept 2006 memo said:

In a September 2006 memorandum sent out by NFL Vice President of Football Operations Ray Anderson, though, all teams were told that "videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game
Click to expand...
So we know between Sept of 2006 and Sept of 2007 BB and co violated the 2006 memorandum.

Does anyone have a link to the video taping of signals rules that were in place before the Sept 2006 memo?

All I have been able to find is a reference to page 105 section of the NFL handbook below. I don't pretend that a Wikipedia page is authoritative, but the page does have some good info on it so I am going to reference it with that caveat that I would welcome any challenges to the validity of its contents. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_National_Football_League_videotaping_controversy

Page 105 of the 2007 NFL Game Operations Manual states, "No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game...All video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead."[17] Belichick stated that he believed that if footage so collected was not used during the game, its collection was legal, as the NFL Constitution and Bylaws stipulate that "...any communications or information-gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, shall be prohibited...including without limitation...any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game."[18] In a September 2006 memorandum sent out by NFL Vice President of Football Operations Ray Anderson, though, all teams were told that "videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game."[18]
Click to expand...
Does anyone have the specific rule(s) that stated video taping signals was illegal?
Click to expand...
No one even has the signal taping rule they allegedly broke?

I'm challenging you to debate without the hate.

It appears defending the Patriots from scurrilous accusations isn't the hard part.

The hard part is finding someone, anyone willing to have an honest discussion on the subject; that and ignoring the noise from the haters.
Click to expand...
This begs the question why Goodell would bust the Pats for something that was neither illegal nor unique to the Pats.

Believe me I know Goodell is FOS and rules without evidence, we know this, he has been discredited repeatedly, but in every instance there was a selfish motive for the NFL. We know what the alleged motive for the NFL not doing an inventory of all tapes, ie possibly revealing that the SBs were compromised. What then was the NFL's motive for slapping down the Pats for this?

 
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SaintsInDome2006 said:
NE_REVIVAL said:
NE_REVIVAL said:
Since we know stealing signals was\is legal, I think it makes sense to start with the rules that were in place before and after 2006.

In summary (also from wiki), the Sept 2006 memo said:

In a September 2006 memorandum sent out by NFL Vice President of Football Operations Ray Anderson, though, all teams were told that "videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game
Click to expand...
So we know between Sept of 2006 and Sept of 2007 BB and co violated the 2006 memorandum.

Does anyone have a link to the video taping of signals rules that were in place before the Sept 2006 memo?

All I have been able to find is a reference to page 105 section of the NFL handbook below. I don't pretend that a Wikipedia page is authoritative, but the page does have some good info on it so I am going to reference it with that caveat that I would welcome any challenges to the validity of its contents. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_National_Football_League_videotaping_controversy

Page 105 of the 2007 NFL Game Operations Manual states, "No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game...All video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead."[17] Belichick stated that he believed that if footage so collected was not used during the game, its collection was legal, as the NFL Constitution and Bylaws stipulate that "...any communications or information-gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, shall be prohibited...including without limitation...any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game."[18] In a September 2006 memorandum sent out by NFL Vice President of Football Operations Ray Anderson, though, all teams were told that "videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game."[18]
Click to expand...
Does anyone have the specific rule(s) that stated video taping signals was illegal?
Click to expand...
No one even has the signal taping rule they allegedly broke?

I'm challenging you to debate without the hate.

It appears defending the Patriots from scurrilous accusations isn't the hard part.

The hard part is finding someone, anyone willing to have an honest discussion on the subject; that and ignoring the noise from the haters.
Click to expand...
This begs the question why Goodell would bust the Pats for something that was neither illegal nor unique to the Pats.

Believe me I know Goodell is FOS and rules without evidence, we know this, he has been discredited repeatedly, but in every instance there was a selfish motive for the NFL. We know what the alleged motive for the NFL not doing an inventory of all tapes, ie possibly revealing that the SBs were compromised. What then was the NFL's motive for slapping down the Pats for this?
Click to expand...
Fair question.

I think they primarily got punished for arrogantly ignoring the memorandum that went out in Sept 2006.

 
Kool-Aid Larry said:
they take brady out of the game, who takes helmet off and sets it down

flutie mistakenly picks helmet up and enters game

brady goes up to concession stand

belichick, not realizing flutie's mistake, assumes brady still has helmet on and calls him to pick up an extra box of nachos

pretty simple if you think about it
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Actually, Vinatieri's helmet had all the extra hardware. How else could he kick a 45 yard FG in a snow storm? So, Flutie picks up Vinatieri's helmet by mistake because he was deep in a recap of the "Miracle in Miami" with the head cheer leader. So, with Flutie in shot-gun position, he hears Belichick mutter "just kick the f*** extra point... somebody will get hurt on this play some day... the league should just eliminate it... I'm gonna give a ####ty press conference and file a false injury next week if we miss this... No, Tom, I haven't seen your Uggs for men... did you look under the bench?"... confused, Doug did all he could do, hit the first dropkick since the 1940s.

The dropkick... a true NFL classic.

 
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Koya said:
Why are y'all SO sensitive about this issue? All shtick aside... why?

Fwiw, spygate alone is not the reason so many don't like the Pats coaches / organization. It's actually an interesting dichotomy.

Outside the lines, the Patriots are as classy as it gets (from what we see/hear as NFL fans). When it comes to the game itself, that is where the questions lie (again, from what we see/hear)
Click to expand...
I am unclear about the classy outside the lines thing. That is where the ongoing cheating was done. That is where Belichick petulantly mocks NFL policy from the injury report to participating in press conferences. That is where their T.E's party to the detriment of the team, other T.E.'s kill folks, and their Q.B.'s wife throws their best receiver under the bus. That is where the owner, after making a big to do over his dead wife shows up with a chippy just months later. Nope, the organization is not particularly classy outside the lines. News flash, none of them are.

 
I like the Pats - a little. I guess you could say they are one of my favorite teams, if that means anything. But there have been times when I've despised the Pats with the heat of a million suns. I was personally involved with some of their shenanigans in the late 90's when they used and screwed Hartford to get a new stadium. Talk about an under-reported scandal that really did impact a lot of lives...

This being said, Spygate is the most overblown scandal in the history of sports. I mean, really - there is nothing to see here except for a bunch of whiny, immature fans from other teams looking for an opportunity to knock the Pats and the city of Boston off it's perch as the center of the Sports universe the last 10 years. I can understand the draw in doing this. Boston fans can be pretty damn obnoxious at times. But for those who are genuinely interested in learning about the issue and understanding the truth, you won't find any of this in the Shark Pool. And that's a little unfortunate because it is such an interesting issue and deserves a lot of old discussion. If you want to learn about it, read up on it. You'll be blown away at how insignificant it really was.

I've done videotape work for local high schools and colleges over the years, and if it's one thing I've learned it's this - football people lose all sense of intelligence when it comes to a video camera. I was almost arrested once at a high school football game because the athletic director saw me taping and came over to tell me that I couldn't do that "on his field". I educated him on the CIAC rules on videotaping (it's ok as long as it's not done in the end zone and not shown to any coaches during the game), told him that I didn't work for the team and that I was a private videographer hired by the parents to do a highlight video for the students, and lastly (probably shouldn't have said this) reminded him that the taxpayers might think otherwise about it being "his field" - to which this lunatic proceeded to call the police and try to have me arrested on the field!!! When I told the cops what was going on they looked at the guy and basically laughed in his face. And believe me - this was just one of a handful of ridiculous run-ins I had over the years. Something about football and sideline cameras just brings out the crazy in people.

Personally, what I've always found most fascinating about Spygate is the Patriots' total lack of interest in defending the team's legacy and the reputation of the franchise. They have sat idly by while the press, the players, the fans, just about everyone - continues to put forth an onslaught of lies and unsubstantiated innuendoes. Think about it - their own hometown newspaper, the Boston Globe, put out the bogus news story about them taping the walkthrough of the Rams practice at the Superbowl. They could have sued for libel but instead just settled for the front page retraction the Globe put out a few days later. That to me is the most interesting part of this story. In my opinion BB and Kraft are so focused on internal excellence that they have no time or energy left to devote to public relations. Or perhaps it's their own arrogance in thinking that they are above the fray. Whatever it is, it interests the hell out of me.

 
Good post GT.

I only disagree that it isn't possible to have an honest and civil discussion; I think we can if everyone (myself included) can put their emotions to the side and try to determine fact from fiction. It sure as heck won't be easy, I am counting on Patriot fans to ignore the haters and keep it civil. I am also hoping that the mods recognize that the haters are trying to get the thread shut down and maybe help keep the tool factor down in the thread (both sides).

I know I am as guilty as anyone at letting my emotions get the best of me and figured why not at least try and have a civil discussion about an important topic.

We can disagree and still be excellent to one and other.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
This begs the question why Goodell would bust the Pats for something that was neither illegal nor unique to the Pats.

Believe me I know Goodell is FOS and rules without evidence, we know this, he has been discredited repeatedly, but in every instance there was a selfish motive for the NFL. We know what the alleged motive for the NFL not doing an inventory of all tapes, ie possibly revealing that the SBs were compromised. What then was the NFL's motive for slapping down the Pats for this?
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The memo was a clarification of the rule. If league thought enough of the matter to issue a memo then it's clear to be they considered it cheating.

 
NE_REVIVAL said:
Good post GT.

I only disagree that it isn't possible to have an honest and civil discussion; I think we can if everyone (myself included) can put their emotions to the side and try to determine fact from fiction. It sure as heck won't be easy, I am counting on Patriot fans to ignore the haters and keep it civil. I am also hoping that the mods recognize that the haters are trying to get the thread shut down and maybe help keep the tool factor down in the thread (both sides).

I know I am as guilty as anyone at letting my emotions get the best of me and figured why not at least try and have a civil discussion about an important topic.

We can disagree and still be excellent to one and other.
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Honest and civil? In this place? Dude, you're dealing with 40 year old men who spend way too much time not just talking about football, but fantasy football. Think about how twisted and sad that is.
 
I wish there were ignore functions for entire threads. I can't stay away from useless trainwrecks like these and it would keep me out of trouble. The OP seems to have a great desire to be considered a dooshy Pats fan (Why? Because THERE IS A WHOLE OTHER THREAD ON A TOPIC SEVERAL YEARS OLD): Mission Accomplished. And, still, no one cares about this topic no matter how many threads are started. If the league cared (coaches, players, FO) it would have been talked about a lot more back then. So what has time done to make this important again? You got your panties in a wad because people don't like the Pats? Can't imagine why they don't. Funny thing is prior to the first World Series victory the country had fond feelings towards Boston's passion. Now you all make Cleveland, Philadelphia and Oakland look like a bunch of grounded, no nonsense saints.

 
cstu said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
This begs the question why Goodell would bust the Pats for something that was neither illegal nor unique to the Pats.

Believe me I know Goodell is FOS and rules without evidence, we know this, he has been discredited repeatedly, but in every instance there was a selfish motive for the NFL. We know what the alleged motive for the NFL not doing an inventory of all tapes, ie possibly revealing that the SBs were compromised. What then was the NFL's motive for slapping down the Pats for this?
Click to expand...
The memo was a clarification of the rule. If league thought enough of the matter to issue a memo then it's clear to be they considered it cheating.
Click to expand...
Do you have a link to the rule or any reference to it prior to the memo?

 
Alonzo Mosely said:
cstu said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
This begs the question why Goodell would bust the Pats for something that was neither illegal nor unique to the Pats.

Believe me I know Goodell is FOS and rules without evidence, we know this, he has been discredited repeatedly, but in every instance there was a selfish motive for the NFL. We know what the alleged motive for the NFL not doing an inventory of all tapes, ie possibly revealing that the SBs were compromised. What then was the NFL's motive for slapping down the Pats for this?
Click to expand...
The memo was a clarification of the rule. If league thought enough of the matter to issue a memo then it's clear to be they considered it cheating.
Click to expand...
Do you have a link to the rule or any reference to it prior to the memo?
Click to expand...
:goodposting: What was the rule in place prior to 2006; fair question to ask is it not?

 
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NE_REVIVAL said:
No baseless rumors from some doochbag trying to sell a book, just facts from someone who would know and has no reason to lie.

PITTSBURGH -- Bill Cowher has a message for Pittsburgh Steelers fans who think their team was cheated out of a trip to the Super Bowl 10 years ago: Get over it.The Steelers were drummed by New England, 41-27, in the 2004 AFC Championship Game at Heinz field, a loss that came under suspicion a couple of years later when the Patriots were caught trying to steal signals and formations by illegally videotaping opposing teams.

“We didn’t lose the game because of any 'Spygate,' because of them having any additional things,” Cowher told 93.7 The Fan on Wednesday. “[if] they’re guilty of anything they’re guilty of arrogance because they were told not to do something but it was something everybody does. They got caught doing it with a camera.”

Cowher, who coached the Steelers from 1992-2006, said what the Patriots did happened regularly in the NFL before the league allowed coordinators to relay plays to their quarterback and defensive signal-caller via a helmet radio.

“Stealing someone’s signals was a part of the game and everybody attempted to do that. We had people that always tried to steal signals,” said Cowher, whose 2004 team won 16 consecutive games before losing to the Patriots in the AFC title game. “What happened when we lost that game is they outplayed us. It had nothing to do with stealing signals or cheating or anything else.”

Scott Brown | ESPN.com

From the ESPN Steeler site:

http://espn.go.com/blog/pittsburgh-steelers/post/_/id/4294/cowher-dismisses-impact-of-spygate
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Lets have a good discussion, no name calling and unlike that other thread we aren't going to allow any of that "possible" or "rumor" type crap. Lets stick to the facts and see where it leads us.

More to come...
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Pats needed an obscure, never used before or since 'Tuck Rule' to get to the SB the first time.that's not cheating, but it's a gift from the refs..again, Kraft + Goodell = best buddies..they get the breaks when they need to.Bogus PI call against Rams - gift from refs.listen to Faulk and Warner about the game..

let Mangini tell you what happened,someone INSIDE the Patriots offices..not Bill Cowher..Mangini, an insider, spoke about the wrongdoings, because he was an active participant..once he spoke, the $#@$ hit the fan..it's not a case of 'everyone' was doing it.obviously,the Pats were doing something extra, something more hardcore.something they weren't supposed to be doing..if everyone was doing it, how come the league only came down hard on the Pats?!

then Goodell comes along and burns the tapes, and fines the team,and sweeps it all under the rug.in the history of organized professional sports, have you ever heard of such a preposterous thing as a commish burning tapes?! and to 'pay him back', Kraft comes to his defense with the Rice fiasco..damage control done by Bob Kraft.

Kraft + Goodell - best buds..notice the pattern here?

if you dont want to call it cheating, thats fine.they worked in the grey area of the rules , even after they were told to stop..they violated league policies.broke league laws. still did it last year by attempting an illegal move on a FG attempt in a game v. Jets.where there's smoke , there's fire.they have a history of bending the rules or attempting to do so.'catch me if you can' sort of stuff..

I suppose we should kill Rex Ryan for opening his mouth about the cheating they saw in previous Pats games ( on tape) regarding FG attempts..?

cheating or not, BB is a dirty coach , plain and simple..

that's not hating on the Pats..I love the Pats.they gave my Giants two of the biggest , juiciest,tastiest SB wins in franchise history!!! so for that, I say thanks!!

 
NE_REVIVAL said:
NE_REVIVAL said:
Since we know stealing signals was\is legal, I think it makes sense to start with the rules that were in place before and after 2006.

In summary (also from wiki), the Sept 2006 memo said:

In a September 2006 memorandum sent out by NFL Vice President of Football Operations Ray Anderson, though, all teams were told that "videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game
Click to expand...
So we know between Sept of 2006 and Sept of 2007 BB and co violated the 2006 memorandum.

Does anyone have a link to the video taping of signals rules that were in place before the Sept 2006 memo?

All I have been able to find is a reference to page 105 section of the NFL handbook below. I don't pretend that a Wikipedia page is authoritative, but the page does have some good info on it so I am going to reference it with that caveat that I would welcome any challenges to the validity of its contents. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_National_Football_League_videotaping_controversy

Page 105 of the 2007 NFL Game Operations Manual states, "No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game...All video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead."[17] Belichick stated that he believed that if footage so collected was not used during the game, its collection was legal, as the NFL Constitution and Bylaws stipulate that "...any communications or information-gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, shall be prohibited...including without limitation...any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game."[18] In a September 2006 memorandum sent out by NFL Vice President of Football Operations Ray Anderson, though, all teams were told that "videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game."[18]
Click to expand...
Does anyone have the specific rule(s) that stated video taping signals was illegal?
Click to expand...
No one even has the signal taping rule they allegedly broke?

I'm challenging you to debate without the hate.

It appears defending the Patriots from scurrilous accusations isn't the hard part.

The hard part is finding someone, anyone willing to have an honest discussion on the subject; that and ignoring the noise from the haters.
Click to expand...
It appears that stealing signals is legal (even today) and there was no rule in place regarding recording said signals before the 2006 memorandum.

This isn't the end of it obviously, but we need to separate fact from fiction as we proceed.

You have all been challenged to show the rule that was broken, does anyone have anything factual to disprove what I just wrote?

 
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