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Fact or Fiction? Rolling Stone's UVA Gang Rape Story (1 Viewer)

Powerful stuff. If it is true, hope the guys are strung up by their balls.

Seems like there is too much smoke for there not to be something pretty bad going on.

I think the college culture is an unintended consequence of raising the drinking age to 21.

 
I have doubts that story is all true.

College frat brutal gang rape? Everyone is "too afraid of backlash" to report it?

Seems way too Hollywood, IMO.

I'm not saying it's impossible or that there aren't a ton of unreported rapes, but that particular story seems far fetched.

 
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It's probably as true as The Invisible War

Which is to say the story is based on some true parts but sensationalized to create a message.

Universities have an incentive to keep this stuff quiet.

Frats consist of young males.

Young males commit more rapes than other demographics.

Alcohol adds to the possibility of getting raped.

Frats usually throw large parties where people get drunk.

Some college kids (both male and female) are naive and get themselves in bad situations.

Some college kids (both male and female) take advantage of the naivety of others.

There is some fear in reporting these incidents, fear of being ostracized and not believing the alleged victim being two of the key issues.

Phi Kappa Psi is one of the premier frats on UVA's campus.

They got the Phi Kappa Psi national executive director's name right.

Rolling Stone wants to sell their magazine.

Sensationalism sells.

Those are the facts we can probably agree on.

 
Both the report and "Jackie" need to be prosecuted. This type of thing sets back awareness and perception of these types of issues an damages the reputation of future actual assault victims who bring legitimate claims.

 
Drifter said:
Both the report and "Jackie" need to be prosecuted. This type of thing sets back awareness and perception of these types of issues an damages the reputation of future actual assault victims who bring legitimate claims.
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The president of UVA needs to resign immeditely as well.

 
Drifter said:
Both the report and "Jackie" need to be prosecuted. This type of thing sets back awareness and perception of these types of issues an damages the reputation of future actual assault victims who bring legitimate claims.
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I'm not sure if there's technically anything to prosecute here (/pedantry), but I hope this fraternity and it's members collect boatloads in a civil suit from Rolling Stone. I also hope Jackie spends the rest of her life having her wages garnished to pay off the resulting slander lawsuit as well.

 
Ugh... even more horrific than the story as this really sets back so many who have legitimately been assaulted. Just awful.

 
DCThunder said:
Drifter said:
Both the report and "Jackie" need to be prosecuted. This type of thing sets back awareness and perception of these types of issues an damages the reputation of future actual assault victims who bring legitimate claims.
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The president of UVA needs to resign immeditely as well.
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The president overreacted, but she was placed in a no-win situation. I know most won't agree with me, but I see her as a victim in this.

 
Koya said:
Ugh... even more horrific than the story as this really sets back so many who have legitimately been assaulted. Just awful.
Click to expand...
My thoughts exactly. There are so few false claims of rape, if one of the most high-profile cases turns out to be fictional it would be a tragedy both for the falsely accused frat members and the rape victims who will end up facing a lot of skepticism as a result. What a disaster.

 
Drifter said:
Both the report and "Jackie" need to be prosecuted. This type of thing sets back awareness and perception of these types of issues an damages the reputation of future actual assault victims who bring legitimate claims.
Click to expand...
To certain people, it will not matter that the story may not be true. When we're talking about frat boys at a perceived "white privilege" school engage in an alleged gang rape, it is a moment for the #notallwomen people to have their day in the sun again.

Much like Duke lacrosse, the narrative is more important than the truth.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Koya said:
Ugh... even more horrific than the story as this really sets back so many who have legitimately been assaulted. Just awful.
Click to expand...
My thoughts exactly. There are so few false claims of rape, if one a second of the most high-profile cases (Duke lacrosse team being the first) turns out to be fictional it would be a tragedy both for the falsely accused frat members and the rape victims who will end up facing a lot of skepticism as a result. What a disaster.
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Fixed

 
Seems less and less likely to be true.

The shame of the current debate on this issue is that it ignores the real issue concerning sexual issues on campus. The stats indicate that forced sexual assault rates actually drop from high school to college (stats are from survey). Where the rates skyrocket is in encounters involving alcohol/drugs where consent is not in question or in which one person regrets the next morning.

Instead of addressing and questioning the culture of alcohol fueled sexcapades, we continue to encourage the rampant partying and bad decisions. This puts men at risk because it creates blurred lines when it comes to consent and puts them in serious legal jeopardy. It puts women at risk both physically, in that decision making and even consciousness becomes issues, and mentally/emotionally from drunken hookups that they regret.

 
dhockster said:
TobiasFunke said:
Koya said:
Ugh... even more horrific than the story as this really sets back so many who have legitimately been assaulted. Just awful.
Click to expand...
My thoughts exactly. There are so few false claims of rape, if one a second of the most high-profile cases (Duke lacrosse team being the first) turns out to be fictional it would be a tragedy both for the falsely accused frat members and the rape victims who will end up facing a lot of skepticism as a result. What a disaster.
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Fixed
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Yes, that was awful too.

Take it easy on the "fixed" shtick, though. Nothing in my post says that this would be the first ever high profile false rape accusation.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Koya said:
Ugh... even more horrific than the story as this really sets back so many who have legitimately been assaulted. Just awful.
Click to expand...
My thoughts exactly. There are so few false claims of rape, if one of the most high-profile cases turns out to be fictional it would be a tragedy both for the falsely accused frat members and the rape victims who will end up facing a lot of skepticism as a result. What a disaster.
Click to expand...
How the hell do you know that?

 
I should add, I do think another serious issue regarding sexual assault on campuses is how colleges handle them. I have no idea why our legal system has allowed them to treat them as some sort of internal administrative issue rather than the heinous crimes they actually are.

 
Officer Pete Malloy said:
TobiasFunke said:
Koya said:
Ugh... even more horrific than the story as this really sets back so many who have legitimately been assaulted. Just awful.
Click to expand...
My thoughts exactly. There are so few false claims of rape, if one of the most high-profile cases turns out to be fictional it would be a tragedy both for the falsely accused frat members and the rape victims who will end up facing a lot of skepticism as a result. What a disaster.
Click to expand...
How the hell do you know that?
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By reading about it?

2-8% is usually the reported figure. I have no reason to doubt it and have never really seen anyone challenge it.

The first three pages here give a nice little summary of the data collected from a variety of studies of the subject.

ETA: turns out Wikipedia also has a decent summary, giving the typical finding of studies,."conventional scholarly wisdom, and DOJ conclusion that the number is around 2% but also acknowledging that some people think it's 8% or more.

 
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IvanKaramazov said:
DCThunder said:
Drifter said:
Both the report and "Jackie" need to be prosecuted. This type of thing sets back awareness and perception of these types of issues an damages the reputation of future actual assault victims who bring legitimate claims.
Click to expand...
The president of UVA needs to resign immeditely as well.
Click to expand...
The president overreacted, but she was placed in a no-win situation. I know most won't agree with me, but I see her as a victim in this.
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The UVA president, Theresa Sullivan, has had issues before....

Sullivan was unanimously elected on January 11, 2010, and became the University's first female president on August 1, 2010.[3] However, on June 10, 2012, it was announced to the University that Sullivan would step down from her position on August 15, 2012, after serving only two years of a five-year contract. Leaders of the university’s governing board decided to remove Sullivan, "largely because of her unwillingness to consider dramatic program cuts in the face of dwindling resources and for her perceived reluctance to approach the school with the bottom-line mentality of a corporate chief executive".[5] Other sources presented the dispute as being more about differing view of the academic culture and future direction of the university than immediate financial concerns; whether less popular traditional-classical academic studies should be cut, with funding refocussed on more profitable and business-oriented courses and programs.[citation needed] Later news reports presented the resignation as an "ouster" organized by Helen Dragas, rector of the university's Board of Visitors; with strong suggestions of Dragas' conflicting views of the future of the university, and personal ambitions playing a role in her actions.[5] Although a formal meeting and vote of the full board was not held at the time, Sullivan was presented with the news of her loss of majority support within the board, and given the 'opportunity' to resign.

The announcement of her resignation was communicated via an email by Dragas on behalf of the Board of Visitors. The message quoted from Sullivan's resignation letter and cited "philosophical differences" on how the University was to be run.[2] Large-scale protest against the action, and support for Sullivan from students, faculty, alumni, as well as the national academic community, resulted, including a faculty senate demand for the removal of the Board of Visitors leaders - Rector Helen Dragas and Vice Rector Mark J. Kington[6] - and demands from the student government for an explanation for the ouster.[7] In the face of this pressure, including a statement from Virginia Governor Robert McDonnell that he would remove the entire board if they failed to resolve the issue at their June 26 meeting,[8] the board unanimously voted to reinstate Sullivan as president.

 
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IvanKaramazov said:
DCThunder said:
Drifter said:
Both the report and "Jackie" need to be prosecuted. This type of thing sets back awareness and perception of these types of issues an damages the reputation of future actual assault victims who bring legitimate claims.
Click to expand...
The president of UVA needs to resign immeditely as well.
Click to expand...
The president overreacted, but she was placed in a no-win situation. I know most won't agree with me, but I see her as a victim in this.
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As a Duke ('92) grad, I have little sympathy for that president.

 
I don't think the false accusations hurt future accusers, they just help remind us how important due dilligence is, right Rolling Stone?

 
If this is the story I read about the other day, I have to admit I was at least initially skeptical. I believe they are alleging a frat ritual of raping women as an initiation, spanning multiple years, maybe decades.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Koya said:
Ugh... even more horrific than the story as this really sets back so many who have legitimately been assaulted. Just awful.
Click to expand...
My thoughts exactly. There are so few false claims of rape, if one of the most high-profile cases turns out to be fictional it would be a tragedy both for the falsely accused frat members and the rape victims who will end up facing a lot of skepticism as a result. What a disaster.
Click to expand...
Yep. And it seems like even a little bit of competent journalism would have nipped this in the bud, instead of giving people ammunition to deny that rapes on college campuses are a problem.

 
Tom Servo said:
Drifter said:
Both the report and "Jackie" need to be prosecuted. This type of thing sets back awareness and perception of these types of issues an damages the reputation of future actual assault victims who bring legitimate claims.
Click to expand...
To certain people, it will not matter that the story may not be true. When we're talking about frat boys at a perceived "white privilege" school engage in an alleged gang rape, it is a moment for the #notallwomen people to have their day in the sun again.

Much like Duke lacrosse, the narrative is more important than the truth.
Click to expand...
The truth is a good amount of sexual assault happens in male dominated settings. I know it because I've unfortunately had to deal with it. I've seen behaviors on sports teams, in a frat and in general.

The problem is that we all look to these individual cases and place the weight of the whole issue on the outcome of that case - and it's a terribly narrow minded view that I have, admittedly, been a part of (i.e. jumping to conclusions with the Duke case).

Same goes for the issue of police brutality. Regardless what 'really' happened in Ferguson or in NY (which we know cause we saw it), there is a huge issue of injustice and at best, complete mistrust. So, those on either side of the issue go "all in" for their side of the case as opposed to admitting that regardless of the facts nor outcome of one case, the real issue is what needs to be tended to.

 
I have the feeling that false rape claims are pretty common.

When I was in the Army my roommate was accused of rape by a girl he was seeing but had stopped seeing. She accused him of raping her at X time in our room, not realizing that I had stayed in town over that weekend (it was a long weekend) and I was in the room when she claimed it occurred. My roommate was already in the base jail having been arrested by CID. My testimony freed him the though. Nothing happened to his accuser... and this was apparently the 3rd dude she has accused of rape during her brief time in the military thus far.

 
DCThunder said:
Drifter said:
Both the report and "Jackie" need to be prosecuted. This type of thing sets back awareness and perception of these types of issues an damages the reputation of future actual assault victims who bring legitimate claims.
Click to expand...
The president of UVA needs to resign immeditely as well.
Click to expand...
They should probably just burn down the entire campus immediately as well.

 
TobiasFunke said:
2-8% is usually the reported figure. I have no reason to doubt it and have never really seen anyone challenge it.
Click to expand...
Without digging into any of the articles cited in this piece, I walked away from the first three pages completely convinced that "2%-8%" is junk science. The actual number of false or mistaken (two totally different things BTW) accusations is inherently unknowable.

 
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(HULK) said:
I have the feeling that false rape claims are pretty common.

When I was in the Army my roommate was accused of rape by a girl he was seeing but had stopped seeing. She accused him of raping her at X time in our room, not realizing that I had stayed in town over that weekend (it was a long weekend) and I was in the room when she claimed it occurred. My roommate was already in the base jail having been arrested by CID. My testimony freed him the though. Nothing happened to his accuser... and this was apparently the 3rd dude she has accused of rape during her brief time in the military thus far.
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:no: but every false accusation is tragic. Every true incident is tragic.

 
No way that story as it told could possibly happen. Its bundled too nicely in the worst case scenario and reads like a lifetime movie script

 
IvanKaramazov said:
TobiasFunke said:
2-8% is usually the reported figure. I have no reason to doubt it and have never really seen anyone challenge it.
Click to expand...
Without digging into any of the articles cited in this piece, I walked away from the first three pages completely convinced that "2%-8%" is junk science. The actual number of false or mistaken (two totally different things BTW) accusations is inherently unknowable.
Click to expand...
false, mistaken, unprosecutable, acquittals, etc. Who knows really?

 
TobiasFunke said:
Officer Pete Malloy said:
TobiasFunke said:
Koya said:
Ugh... even more horrific than the story as this really sets back so many who have legitimately been assaulted. Just awful.
Click to expand...
My thoughts exactly. There are so few false claims of rape, if one of the most high-profile cases turns out to be fictional it would be a tragedy both for the falsely accused frat members and the rape victims who will end up facing a lot of skepticism as a result. What a disaster.
Click to expand...
How the hell do you know that?
Click to expand...
By reading about it?

2-8% is usually the reported figure. I have no reason to doubt it and have never really seen anyone challenge it.

The first three pages here give a nice little summary of the data collected from a variety of studies of the subject.

ETA: turns out Wikipedia also has a decent summary, giving the typical finding of studies,."conventional scholarly wisdom, and DOJ conclusion that the number is around 2% but also acknowledging that some people think it's 8% or more.
Click to expand...
2...8...who's counting?

 
IvanKaramazov said:
TobiasFunke said:
2-8% is usually the reported figure. I have no reason to doubt it and have never really seen anyone challenge it.
Click to expand...
Without digging into any of the articles cited in this piece, I walked away from the first three pages completely convinced that "2%-8%" is junk science. The actual number of false or mistaken (two totally different things BTW) accusations is inherently unknowable.
Click to expand...
Probably, but there seems to be an academic consensus on the number, and DOJ agrees, according to the wikipedia entry and its citations.

Regardless of whether that number is accurate or not, I think my initial statement that there are "so few" false claims was reasonable. I'm pretty confident that the number of false claims is a small fraction of the total number of claims.

 
TobiasFunke said:
dhockster said:
TobiasFunke said:
Koya said:
Ugh... even more horrific than the story as this really sets back so many who have legitimately been assaulted. Just awful.
Click to expand...
My thoughts exactly. There are so few false claims of rape, if one a second of the most high-profile cases (Duke lacrosse team being the first) turns out to be fictional it would be a tragedy both for the falsely accused frat members and the rape victims who will end up facing a lot of skepticism as a result. What a disaster.
Click to expand...
Fixed
Click to expand...
Yes, that was awful too.

Take it easy on the "fixed" shtick, though. Nothing in my post says that this would be the first ever high profile false rape accusation.
Click to expand...
I was responding more to your "there are so few false claims of rape". I think there are more than you think. Tawana Braley is another high profile case.

And no, I am not defending rapists. I would love for all rapists to tried and convicted. I would also like for false charges of rape to go away and not ruin lives and reputations.

 
TobiasFunke said:
IvanKaramazov said:
TobiasFunke said:
2-8% is usually the reported figure. I have no reason to doubt it and have never really seen anyone challenge it.
Click to expand...
Without digging into any of the articles cited in this piece, I walked away from the first three pages completely convinced that "2%-8%" is junk science. The actual number of false or mistaken (two totally different things BTW) accusations is inherently unknowable.
Click to expand...
Probably, but there seems to be an academic consensus on the number, and DOJ agrees, according to the wikipedia entry and its citations.

Regardless of whether that number is accurate or not, I think my initial statement that there are "so few" false claims was reasonable. I'm pretty confident that the number of false claims is a small fraction of the total number of claims.
Click to expand...
There's also a "consensus" on the statistic that one in five women is sexually assaulted in college, but that number is best understood as an urban legend as well.

I'll go ahead and be blunt on this one. The academics who compile statistics on these sorts of issues tend to come from fields where rigorous quantitative analysis is not in surplus, but ideological agendas are. So when somebody in Criminal Justice (or whatever) says "Well, police say that 41% of complaints are false, but what do the police know?" and proceed to come up with a figure of 1/20 that amount, I am incredibly skeptical. Especially when we're talking about a topic that requires mind-reading to have any level of certainty.

Edit: That's not to say that the 41% number is right either. No matter how you do this, you are going to have massive tradeoffs of Type 1 and Type 2 errors. If you classify every report that simply causes a jaded detective's BS detector to go off, you're going to get a number that's probably unreasonably high. And if your standard is "proven without a doubt to be false," you're going to get what is likely an unreasonably low number.

 
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Long Ball Larry said:
Joe T said:
DCThunder said:
Drifter said:
Both the report and "Jackie" need to be prosecuted. This type of thing sets back awareness and perception of these types of issues an damages the reputation of future actual assault victims who bring legitimate claims.
Click to expand...
The president of UVA needs to resign immeditely as well.
Click to expand...
They should probably just burn down the entire campus immediately as well.
Click to expand...
:goodposting:
Click to expand...
two V-Tech fans?

dhockster said:
TobiasFunke said:
dhockster said:
TobiasFunke said:
Koya said:
Ugh... even more horrific than the story as this really sets back so many who have legitimately been assaulted. Just awful.
Click to expand...
My thoughts exactly. There are so few false claims of rape, if one a second of the most high-profile cases (Duke lacrosse team being the first) turns out to be fictional it would be a tragedy both for the falsely accused frat members and the rape victims who will end up facing a lot of skepticism as a result. What a disaster.
Click to expand...
Fixed
Click to expand...
Yes, that was awful too.

Take it easy on the "fixed" shtick, though. Nothing in my post says that this would be the first ever high profile false rape accusation.
Click to expand...
I was responding more to your "there are so few false claims of rape". I think there are more than you think. Tawana Braley is another high profile case.

And no, I am not defending rapists. I would love for all rapists to tried and convicted. I would also like for false charges of rape to go away and not ruin lives and reputations.
Click to expand...
just so we're on the same page; what would be an acceptable number of false claims?

 
The original story reads like a bad after school special.....everything from the "Hold IT'S LEG" to the kind of sweet guy who couldn't get it up yet felt pressured to do it to the "her reputation will be destroyed for the next four years comment.

 
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