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Official Nick Chubb - RB Georgia, Dynasty

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26 minutes ago, FF Ninja said:

Nobody in their right mind would call that a drop. Stop it.

I'm also not seeing all the wide open field ahead of him.

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On 10/10/2018 at 10:57 AM, Dr. Octopus said:

I'm also not seeing all the wide open field ahead of him.

I was at the stadium and he had 20 yards of open vertical field and a step on the trailing defender.  Nick chubb had less than a step with defenders with angles on both of his long TD runs the week before in Oakland so I consider that an open field.

Per the drop.  The NFL does not keep official stats for drops but curiously has a definition of a drop as not making a catch that could have been made with a reasonable effort but Chubb did two things wrong with his effort.  First he did not have proper height with his hands since the ball was above his shoulders and he positioned his hands at his waist and was slow to raise them to the proper height.  Second he did not use basic NFL triangle hand technique and never got his hands in proper hand placement at any time.

Baker got the ball to him in stride and he got his hands on the ball which would constitute a drop for a good NFL receiver but the fact he failed to get his hands at the proper height and failed to extend his hands using basic hand placement technique means he is responsible for the incomplete pass.

Edited by Bracie Smathers

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It feels like shtick at this point. But the opposite of soulfly shtick. It's like the universe's balancing force for soulfly. Instead of nonsensical positivity, it's nonsensical negativity. 

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11 minutes ago, Bracie Smathers said:

I was at the stadium and he had 20 yards of open vertical field and a step on the trailing defender.  Nick chubb had less than a step with defenders with angles on both of his long TD runs the week before in Oakland so I consider that an open field.

Per the drop.  The NFL does not keep official stats for drops but curiously has a definition of a drop as not making a catch that could have been made with a reasonable effort but Chubb did two things wrong with his effort.  First he did not have proper height with his hands since the ball was above his shoulders and he positioned his hands at his waist and was slow to raise them to the proper height.  Second he did not use basic NFL triangle hand technique and never got his hands in proper hand placement at any time.

Baker got the ball to him in stride and he got his hands on the ball which would constitute a drop for a good NFL receiver but the fact he failed to get his hands at the proper height and failed to extend his hands using basic hand placement technique means he is responsible for the incomplete pass.

Not to start another long journey of conversation...but I assume you are not a Chubb fan and think he is overrated correct?

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19 minutes ago, FF Ninja said:

It feels like shtick at this point. But the opposite of soulfly shtick. It's like the universe's balancing force for soulfly. Instead of nonsensical positivity, it's nonsensical negativity. 

my positivity is always based on facts.

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16 hours ago, King of the Jungle said:

Not to start another long journey of conversation...but I assume you are not a Chubb fan and think he is overrated correct?

I posted multiple times about Chubb's great game because it was amazing but BEFORE last week's game I noted his poor pass-pro and said he wasn't going to replace Hyde until he improved his pass-pro.  What happened?

  • 11 touches
  • 3 runs
  • 2 yards
  • 1 target
  • 0 receptions
  • 1 DROP

Not once in 8 passing attempts was he in pass-pro.  

Browns OC Haley tried to get him on the field in the passing game so the Ravens couldn't key on him as a runner but they didn't respect him as a pass protector or receiver and keyed on him and that is why they were able to shut him down.  He is a liability in the passing game at this time.

They tried but it wasn't working and hurt the offense.  Duke Johnson is the guy who is solid in pass-pro and an excellent receiver and he runs tougher than advertised.  His numbers have suffered and before you automatically say I'm a Duke fan/owner/whatever I don't own any of the Browns backfield.  I am a Browns fan but not a fanboi of any player but Duke needs more touches.

Duke Johnson, frustrated by his lack of chances  After five games last season, he had 23 catches for 270 yards and a TD. This year, he has 10 for 91 yards. At his current clip, he'll finish with 32 catches for 291 yards, and 55 rushes for 240 yards.

Duke had 74 receptions last year and I think Haley will give Duke more touches because Duke is more effective than Chubb in the passing game. 

Its far to easy to accuse anyone who posts positively of being a Chubb owner and then naysay anyone in a Chubb  thread but I've posted positive things about Chubb in this thread and saw the excitement of the Oakland game clouded what to expect when right now he can't pass protect and he shouldn't see the field unless he improves or we'll see more of what we saw against the Ravens.

I have no idea what Haley will do but I would expect Duke to get more touches and that Chubb won't be used as much in the passing game.  Pretty simple take.

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Pass protection is something that can be learned at this level though, correct? It might just not be this year where he sees the field, without an injury to Hyde.

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19 minutes ago, skycriesmary said:

Pass protection is something that can be learned at this level though, correct? It might just not be this year where he sees the field, without an injury to Hyde.

I'll admit to rostering Hyde so I'm biased, but Hyde just runs hard and effectively between the tackles. I'm good with RB's and Chubb has shown me one week with missed blocks. Granted, missed blocks are no way to measure a back, but he hasn't even looked as good as Hyde has. And the Browns won with Hyde toting the rock.That's the answer when Baker is your QB.  

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10 minutes ago, rockaction said:

I'll admit to rostering Hyde so I'm biased, but Hyde just runs hard and effectively between the tackles. I'm good with RB's and Chubb has shown me one week with missed blocks. Granted, missed blocks are no way to measure a back, but he hasn't even looked as good as Hyde has. And the Browns won with Hyde toting the rock.That's the answer when Baker is your QB.  

Sure, Hyde has looked great so far, but he has had an injury history in the past. I am rostering both, fwiw. I was just more curious if my assumption that pass pro could be learned at this level fairy easily over time. I'm assuming plenty of others have come up at this level and made the adjustment. 

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3 minutes ago, skycriesmary said:

Sure, Hyde has looked great so far, but he has had an injury history in the past. I am rostering both, fwiw. I was just more curious if my assumption that pass pro could be learned at this level fairy easily over time. I'm assuming plenty of others have come up at this level and made the adjustment. 

I agree. I think they can learn, which is why I was sort of couching my assessment in bias. I truly don't know, but have always been a Hyde supporter. That's really all I can say, as a fan.  

eta* I'm nodding as I read this. Chubb may indeed be the better back. I just don't know, and like Hyde.  

Edited by rockaction

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2 hours ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Got a football take with your personal attacks and emoticons?  

Yeah, here you go: that off target pass was not a drop.

Your continued insistence that it was a drop is just weird. Not a good look. It's obvious it wasn't a drop so when you double and triple down on it being a drop, it just makes you seem like you've got a bone to pick with Chubb or that you are related to Hyde.

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38 minutes ago, skycriesmary said:

Pass protection is something that can be learned at this level though, correct? It might just not be this year where he sees the field, without an injury to Hyde.

The crazy thing is that Chubb's scouting reports said he was a good not great pass blocker. Anyone telling you he's awful at it is wrong.

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4 minutes ago, FF Ninja said:

Yeah, here you go: that off target pass was not a drop.

Your continued insistence that it was a drop is just weird. Not a good look. It's obvious it wasn't a drop so when you double and triple down on it being a drop, it just makes you seem like you've got a bone to pick with Chubb or that you are related to Hyde.

Being related to Hyde is not an automatic assumption of bias in talent judgment other than what we've seen out of an Ohio State product at a pro level. That's hardly stupid. You do this frequently, but I trust pro evaluation over yours at this point given the whiffed block and fumble/punt block a few weeks ago.   

Edited by rockaction

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Just now, rockaction said:

Being related to Hyde is not an automatic assumption of bias in talent judgment other than what we've seen out of an Ohio State product at a pro level. That's hardly stupid. You do this frequently, but I trust pro evaluation over yours at this point given the whiffed block and fumble a few weeks ago.   

I do, too! That's why I read scouting reports on guys rather than use my own eyeball tests. 

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2 minutes ago, FF Ninja said:

I do, too! That's why I read scouting reports on guys rather than use my own eyeball tests. 

Well, in the words of Good Will Hunting, that's smaht. Still disagree on Hyde, though. :)

Edited by rockaction

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On 10/10/2018 at 7:03 AM, kneeshooter said:

Looks like it hit him in the hands AND was too high:

https://youtu.be/DrcfJN8mImw?t=201

Tough catch, I wouldn't knock him for that one

 

The pass was thrown a bit too firm as well. Would rather see him loft it over the head of defender there as Chubb had defender beat and was pulling away with plenty of field between him and sideline. Good case where the antagonist sees this as a "catchable ball that hit him in the hands" and the protagonist sees this same event as a "bad pass that was thrown too high". Really this micro analysis is not necessary. Nobody is starting Chubb until he starts to get more than 3 carries. This is better than splitting carries in my mind and getting the occasional 20+ point game followed by stinker starts and you are left guessing and splitting will also keep Hyde more fresh and Chubb less fresh for a nice run EOS.

In a perfect world, this usage continues, he stays fresh and Hyde continues to get overworked and Chubb comes in week 10-12ish and gets the same volume of carries as Hyde is now (2nd most in the league iirc) vs tired defenses all impacted by injuries around the league, Chubb having had time to improve his game (including pass protection) and owners will be yelling "King Me" on the game board by December. Seen this happen so many times with similar situations. That potential is worth hanging on to Chubb if you can get through the bye weeks.

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2 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Well, in the words of Good Will Hunting, that's smaht. Still disagree on Hyde, though. :)

And FWIW, I also quoted the FBG writeup of Chubb's performance on page 25 in this comment: https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/722506-official-nick-chubb-rb-georgia-dynasty/?do=findComment&comment=21419794

So you don't have to trust one of two random internet posters... just trust the unbiased FBG summary. Or trust the video which showed the pass was just a little too high to catch.

And just so we're clear, what do we disagree about in regard to Hyde? For the record, I think he's an above average runner, above average pass protector, and awful receiver. These things have been well documented by people better versed on the topics than me, so that's why I hold these opinions of him. Despite this overall positive opinion on Hyde, I also believe that, as a whole package, Chubb is already better than Hyde and gives the team a better chance to win.

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1 minute ago, FF Ninja said:

And FWIW, I also quoted the FBG writeup of Chubb's performance on page 25 in this comment: https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/722506-official-nick-chubb-rb-georgia-dynasty/?do=findComment&comment=21419794

So you don't have to trust one of two random internet posters... just trust the unbiased FBG summary. Or trust the video which showed the pass was just a little too high to catch.

And just so we're clear, what do we disagree about in regard to Hyde? For the record, I think he's an above average runner, above average pass protector, and awful receiver. These things have been well documented by people better versed on the topics than me, so that's why I hold these opinions of him. Despite this overall positive opinion on Hyde, I also believe that, as a whole package, Chubb is already better than Hyde and gives the team a better chance to win.

I agree. I just think he's a better back than rotisserie gives him credit for. I think we don't disagree at all; though I think he's a better receiver than you or many people think. I've been watching him since OSU, and just think he's a professional, quality back. In all respects, though your mileage may vary, as they say.  

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2 minutes ago, rockaction said:

I agree. I just think he's a better back than rotisserie gives him credit for. I think we don't disagree at all; though I think he's a better receiver than you or many people think. I've been watching him since OSU, and just think he's a professional, quality back. In all respects, though your mileage may vary, as they say.  

He led the league in drop rate last year (13.2%:shock:) and I think he's always graded out rather poorly in receiving by PFF metrics. 

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Speaking Monday, Browns coach Hue Jackson once again claimed he would work to get Nick Chubb more carries.

"We do need to get Nick Chubb more carries," was Jackson's exact quote. He said the same thing two weeks away and has proceeded to give Chubb the ball six times over the past two games. With Carlos Hyde averaging just 3.35 yards per carry, perhaps Jackson means it this time. Chubb remains worth holding in 12-team leagues.

Source: Mary Kay Cabot on Twitter 

Oct 15 - 2:45 PM

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15 hours ago, Faust said:

 

 

I think we’ve heard this before. It’ll take a Hyde injury before Hue gives him significant carries. 

Edited by ffweasel
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