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timschochet's thread- Mods, please move this thread to the Politics Subforum, thank you (2 Viewers)

69. White Men Can't Jump (1992)

Directed by: Ron Shelton

Starring: Wesley Snipes, Woody Harrelson, Rosie Perez

Easily my favorite Ron Shelton film, despite the fact that Rosie Perez has probably the single most annoying voice I have ever encountered in a movie. But the basketball, the humor, the hustling scenes reminiscent of The Sting, and most of all the interaction between Snipes and Harrelson are all great. Harrelson is so good at playing this character (street smart but dumb and impetuous) that I have to wonder if this is basically who he is.

Love the scene with Marques Johnson- he was actually quite funny. Should have been in more movies.

Up next: I'll tell you what you gonna do. You gonna get a job. That's what you gonna do. You're gonna get a little job. Some job a convict can get, like scraping off trays in a cafeteria. Or cleaning out toilets. And you're gonna hold onto that job like gold. Because it is gold. Let me tell you, Jack, that is gold. You listenin' to me? And when that man walks in at the end of the day. And he comes to see how you done, you ain't gonna look in his eyes. You gonna look at the floor. Because you don't want to see that fear in his eyes when you jump up & grab his face, and slam him to the floor, and make him scream & cry for his life. So you look right at the floor, Jack. Pay attention to what I'm sayin', mother####er! And then he's gonna look around the room - see how you done. And he's gonna say "Oh, you missed a little spot over there. Jeez, you didn't get this one here. What about this little bitty spot?" And you're gonna suck all that pain inside you, and you're gonna clean that spot. And you're gonna clean that spot. Until you get that shiny clean. And on Friday, you pick up your paycheck. And if you could do that, if you could do that, you could be president of Chase Manhattan... corporations! If you could do that.

 
69. White Men Can't Jump (1992)

Directed by: Ron Shelton

Starring: Wesley Snipes, Woody Harrelson, Rosie Perez

Easily my favorite Ron Shelton film, despite the fact that Rosie Perez has probably the single most annoying voice I have ever encountered in a movie. But the basketball, the humor, the hustling scenes reminiscent of The Sting, and most of all the interaction between Snipes and Harrelson are all great. Harrelson is so good at playing this character (street smart but dumb and impetuous) that I have to wonder if this is basically who he is.

Love the scene with Marques Johnson- he was actually quite funny. Should have been in more movies.

Up next: I'll tell you what you gonna do. You gonna get a job. That's what you gonna do. You're gonna get a little job. Some job a convict can get, like scraping off trays in a cafeteria. Or cleaning out toilets. And you're gonna hold onto that job like gold. Because it is gold. Let me tell you, Jack, that is gold. You listenin' to me? And when that man walks in at the end of the day. And he comes to see how you done, you ain't gonna look in his eyes. You gonna look at the floor. Because you don't want to see that fear in his eyes when you jump up & grab his face, and slam him to the floor, and make him scream & cry for his life. So you look right at the floor, Jack. Pay attention to what I'm sayin', mother####er! And then he's gonna look around the room - see how you done. And he's gonna say "Oh, you missed a little spot over there. Jeez, you didn't get this one here. What about this little bitty spot?" And you're gonna suck all that pain inside you, and you're gonna clean that spot. And you're gonna clean that spot. Until you get that shiny clean. And on Friday, you pick up your paycheck. And if you could do that, if you could do that, you could be president of Chase Manhattan... corporations! If you could do that.
I agree! God she was awful. 

 
69. White Men Can't Jump (1992)

Love the scene with Marques Johnson- he was actually quite funny. Should have been in more movies.
Came in to mention Marques Johnson ... but as a UCLA fan, I shoulda known you wouldn't have missed it :thumbup:

Going by memory -- I think that was about the time Marques Johnson started with broadcasting. Might have figured it would be hard to pursue acting work while maintaining a full broadcast schedule.

 
69. White Men Can't Jump (1992)

Directed by: Ron Shelton

Starring: Wesley Snipes, Woody Harrelson, Rosie Perez

Easily my favorite Ron Shelton film, despite the fact that Rosie Perez has probably the single most annoying voice I have ever encountered in a movie. But the basketball, the humor, the hustling scenes reminiscent of The Sting, and most of all the interaction between Snipes and Harrelson are all great. Harrelson is so good at playing this character (street smart but dumb and impetuous) that I have to wonder if this is basically who he is.

Love the scene with Marques Johnson- he was actually quite funny. Should have been in more movies.
The one movie even Woody Harrelson disowns....

:X

 
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69. White Men Can't Jump (1992)

Directed by: Ron Shelton

Starring: Wesley Snipes, Woody Harrelson, Rosie Perez

Easily my favorite Ron Shelton film, despite the fact that Rosie Perez has probably the single most annoying voice I have ever encountered in a movie. But the basketball, the humor, the hustling scenes reminiscent of The Sting, and most of all the interaction between Snipes and Harrelson are all great. Harrelson is so good at playing this character (street smart but dumb and impetuous) that I have to wonder if this is basically who he is.

Love the scene with Marques Johnson- he was actually quite funny. Should have been in more movies.
Many fond memories of this movie with a couple of baller friends in college.  Good times.

 
68. Runaway Train (1985)

Directed by: Andrei Konchalovsky

Starring: Jon Voight, Eric Roberts, Rebecca De Mornay, John P. Ryan

This film is largely forgotten now but is a great thriller that features Jon Voight in what I consider to be his finest acting performance. The plot is based on an Akira Kurosawa story: two convicts escape from an Alaska prison onto the first train they can find, but it's a runaway train that can't be stopped or slowed down.

All of the acting in this film is excellent, particularly Voight and Eric Roberts, both of whom were nominated for Academy Awards. The action is both extremely suspensful and grueling. As with all of Konchalovsky's films, the cinematography is awesome, particularly the last few minutes of the film in which Voight stands on top of the train, a rebellious figure victorious yet going to his death. Unfortunately this film is not available on instant video nor, to the best of my knowledge, has it been on TV in years. If you want to see it you have send away for the DVD. But its a worthwhile watch.

Next up: I'm an excellent driver.

 
What Trump is doing by challenging the legitimacy of the election results is rather unprecedented.  I tried to think about the past Presidential elections to figure out if his hinting at possibly not accepting them matches anything that has happened in the past.

1800 - the problem in this election actually led to an Amendment to the Constitution.  Jefferson beat Adams, that was not in issue.  What was in issue was that Jefferson tied his supposed VP Aaron Burr in the electoral college and the Constitution gave the seat of the VP to the person that came in second in the EC.  Burr didn't equivocally back down and it created chaos in the government.  For a time.  The federalists had to help get Jefferson the vote in the House to give him the Presidency and in doing so Alexander Hamilton began what turned into the duel, and his death, at the hands of Aaron Burr.

So Trump hinting he would not accept the results would make him Burr here.  The Congress got the right thing done, and Burr killed the former Secretary of the Treasury and founding father, ended up being a traitor, and is remember in history as nothing more than the example of the very kind of power hungry aristocrats the founders were trying to protect the country from.

1824 - Andrew Jackson accused his political enemies of a corrupt bargain in the victory of John Quincy Adams.  Jackson won the popular vote and the most college votes with Quincy Adams coming in second, but neither had a majority.  Henry Clay came in third.  And after weeks of backroom deals and trying to figure out how to solve the problem, Speaker of the House Clay led the House to give the election to Adams, and then Clay was appointed Secretary of State.  Jackson and the Democrats were furious but Adams was sworn in and they spent the next four years fighting him tooth and nail and then obliterating him in the next election.

So Trump hinting he would not accept the results would make him Jackson here.  Except Jackson did accept the results though he made it clear that it was political gamesmanship and then built a new Democratic Party that stood in its basic form until after the Civil War and into the 1960's.  Trump is no Jackson, and if you want to say that Trump is going to rebuild the Republican Party after this election like Jackson did the Democrats, you would be wrong.  Jackson brought more people into the party, Trump is doing the opposite.

1876 - Hayes Tilden.  Another one that went to the House.  Instead of doing their job like they did in previous years they created a committee to decide the election and the committee selected Hayes.  But at least we get close to Trump's problem here.  Because the reason it went to the House was that while Tilden won the popular vote by a lot, he was one vote shy of the majority of the electoral college requirement.  And the reason for that was that four states were disputing their own results and each party in those states was accusing each other of fraud in the election.  So this might be the closest thing we have to what is going on now.  Except that once it was figured out that nothing like this had happened before - fraud accusations stopping states from counting their ballots or certifying their results - the two party's worked together and came up with the idea for the commission inside the House.  And then that commission chose.  So while there were accusations all of the place, in the end, the party's worked together to figure out a resolution and then abided by that resolution.

So Trump hinting he would not accept the results would make him... the states of South Carolina, Oregon, Florida and/or Louisiana here as they were the states that alleged voter fraud within their state systems.  But they never fought the ultimate result of the House. 

1960 - Nixon Kennedy.  The stories are replete with tales of the Chicago Democratic Party throwing ballot boxes into the river to ensure Kennedy won the state.  His margin was small indeed but he did win.  And Nixon, never seriously challenged the results  - at least in public.  The Republican Party was apoplectic about the results and the accusations of fraud.  Current histories teach that Nixon decided that the country was better served by not fighting, but the party didn't follow that line.  Three days after the election several republican agents and officials began trying to challenge the results, filing suits in several states to demand a recount, and some recounts did take place.  In the end though it didn't matter and Kennedy was sworn in.  In a really really close election.

So Trump hinting he would not accept the results would make him.... Republican Party Chairman and Senator, Thurston Morton, who led the recount charge. Who lost.  And then ran the 1964 campaign for the GOP as well.  But Morton also eventually resigned his power because of the deaths of Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King and the fact that his party failed to address the issues of the country like he thought they should.  He was trying to be a good servant after the '60 election by most accounts.  So comparing Trump to him isn't fair.  But at least this is close.  A little.  Ultimately, Kennedy didn't finish his term so the problems the GOP caused him didn't really matter in the end, but the social upheaval of 1960 has lasting marks on the country.

2000 - Bush Gore.  This went ultimately to the Supreme Court with accusations of every kind made against everyone who dared offer an opinion on the election from any side.  Bush was tainted with the results but other factors ultimately led the country to focus their attention elsewhere.  And after the recounts, and the Supreme Court and everything else that happened, Al Gore gave one of the most moving political speeches by a "loser" that you can give in that capacity.  And accepted the results.  And Bush was sworn in.

So Trump hinting he would not accept the results would make him..... no one.  Because Al Gore had more class than Trump seems to have at the moment.  Although you do have to grant that Gore led the effort for the recounts.  In what was another extremely close election.

And all brings this back to Trump now - because by all accounts right now, this is not going to be an extremely close election.  We should grant, for mental gymnastics alone, that if this election is very close - on the Bush Gore, or Kennedy Nixon, or Tilden Hayes scale, that sure, Trump calling for recounts and the GOP accusing the DNC of voter fraud, and mass hysteria by the political class is all warranted and pretty expected.  But if it's not close?  If Clinton gets to 300, 340, 360 or more electoral votes?  What in the hell is he challenging?  Voter fraud on the scale necessary to even come to that would be something that no political system outside of Iraq and North Korea could function with, and for all the outrage at the left in this country, there can't seriously be a member of this GOP who would, with a straight face, say that those elections are more fair than ours.

If this election ends up close, more power to Trump.  Get every right wing lawyer in the country to file every injunction you can and let the system support itself and correct itself in the manner it was designed to do.  But if you lose huge, which it looks like you are going to do?  Then you better man up, stand in front of the cameras and make it very clear that the results are conceded.  Because if you don't there is no precedent for that in our history.  None.  There is nothing close on this scale.  And for someone running for President of this country to actually have the gonads to stand in front of 70 million people and say that he might not agree to the results?  That is a person who doesn't deserve the honor of running for the office to begin with.  And it is certainly someone that no one who has any respect for this country and its political institutions should vote for, support or even acknowledge.  He may have been the very worst form of what a current GOPer looks like right now in this nation before.  But now, he is a clear and present danger to the United States of America.  And the people that would grant him the backing to give him the ability to make that statement as the current national leader of the GOP have no right to ever again call themselves a supporter of a party that gave us Abraham Lincoln, William McKinley, Dwight Eisenhower and Ronald Reagan. 

I would say he should be ashamed of himself, but he clearly has no shame.  Nor ability to understand what his ridiculous statement/non-statement means.  This isn't a banana republic.  This isn't 18th century France on her third republic in 14 years.  This is a nation that has put in the hard work to make a republic that spans more acreage than any republic ever has, controlling more people than any republic ever has, influencing the world with more power than any republic ever has and it is a nation that requires adults in positions of power.  We deserve to proud of this nation, even with all of its faults and failures, for what it has managed to do - exist for this long allowing the civilian transfer of ultimate power every 2 or 4 years without issue save one in 1861 when our greatest leader held it all together with his will, determination and life.  Our right to vote in this nation is a calling to that form of leadership, not this.  This is disgusting.  And I am ashamed that I ever supported this party.  And everyone that is member now should be to.  His nomination should be rescinded immediately.  Let Clinton win every state by default.  That is the price we should pay for this. The GOP is dead to me. 

 
What Trump is doing by challenging the legitimacy of the election results is rather unprecedented.  I tried to think about the past Presidential elections to figure out if his hinting at possibly not accepting them matches anything that has happened in the past.

1800 - the problem in this election actually led to an Amendment to the Constitution.  Jefferson beat Adams, that was not in issue.  What was in issue was that Jefferson tied his supposed VP Aaron Burr in the electoral college and the Constitution gave the seat of the VP to the person that came in second in the EC.  Burr didn't equivocally back down and it created chaos in the government.  For a time.  The federalists had to help get Jefferson the vote in the House to give him the Presidency and in doing so Alexander Hamilton began what turned into the duel, and his death, at the hands of Aaron Burr.

So Trump hinting he would not accept the results would make him Burr here.  The Congress got the right thing done, and Burr killed the former Secretary of the Treasury and founding father, ended up being a traitor, and is remember in history as nothing more than the example of the very kind of power hungry aristocrats the founders were trying to protect the country from.

1824 - Andrew Jackson accused his political enemies of a corrupt bargain in the victory of John Quincy Adams.  Jackson won the popular vote and the most college votes with Quincy Adams coming in second, but neither had a majority.  Henry Clay came in third.  And after weeks of backroom deals and trying to figure out how to solve the problem, Speaker of the House Clay led the House to give the election to Adams, and then Clay was appointed Secretary of State.  Jackson and the Democrats were furious but Adams was sworn in and they spent the next four years fighting him tooth and nail and then obliterating him in the next election.

So Trump hinting he would not accept the results would make him Jackson here.  Except Jackson did accept the results though he made it clear that it was political gamesmanship and then built a new Democratic Party that stood in its basic form until after the Civil War and into the 1960's.  Trump is no Jackson, and if you want to say that Trump is going to rebuild the Republican Party after this election like Jackson did the Democrats, you would be wrong.  Jackson brought more people into the party, Trump is doing the opposite.

1876 - Hayes Tilden.  Another one that went to the House.  Instead of doing their job like they did in previous years they created a committee to decide the election and the committee selected Hayes.  But at least we get close to Trump's problem here.  Because the reason it went to the House was that while Tilden won the popular vote by a lot, he was one vote shy of the majority of the electoral college requirement.  And the reason for that was that four states were disputing their own results and each party in those states was accusing each other of fraud in the election.  So this might be the closest thing we have to what is going on now.  Except that once it was figured out that nothing like this had happened before - fraud accusations stopping states from counting their ballots or certifying their results - the two party's worked together and came up with the idea for the commission inside the House.  And then that commission chose.  So while there were accusations all of the place, in the end, the party's worked together to figure out a resolution and then abided by that resolution.

So Trump hinting he would not accept the results would make him... the states of South Carolina, Oregon, Florida and/or Louisiana here as they were the states that alleged voter fraud within their state systems.  But they never fought the ultimate result of the House. 

1960 - Nixon Kennedy.  The stories are replete with tales of the Chicago Democratic Party throwing ballot boxes into the river to ensure Kennedy won the state.  His margin was small indeed but he did win.  And Nixon, never seriously challenged the results  - at least in public.  The Republican Party was apoplectic about the results and the accusations of fraud.  Current histories teach that Nixon decided that the country was better served by not fighting, but the party didn't follow that line.  Three days after the election several republican agents and officials began trying to challenge the results, filing suits in several states to demand a recount, and some recounts did take place.  In the end though it didn't matter and Kennedy was sworn in.  In a really really close election.

So Trump hinting he would not accept the results would make him.... Republican Party Chairman and Senator, Thurston Morton, who led the recount charge. Who lost.  And then ran the 1964 campaign for the GOP as well.  But Morton also eventually resigned his power because of the deaths of Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King and the fact that his party failed to address the issues of the country like he thought they should.  He was trying to be a good servant after the '60 election by most accounts.  So comparing Trump to him isn't fair.  But at least this is close.  A little.  Ultimately, Kennedy didn't finish his term so the problems the GOP caused him didn't really matter in the end, but the social upheaval of 1960 has lasting marks on the country.

2000 - Bush Gore.  This went ultimately to the Supreme Court with accusations of every kind made against everyone who dared offer an opinion on the election from any side.  Bush was tainted with the results but other factors ultimately led the country to focus their attention elsewhere.  And after the recounts, and the Supreme Court and everything else that happened, Al Gore gave one of the most moving political speeches by a "loser" that you can give in that capacity.  And accepted the results.  And Bush was sworn in.

So Trump hinting he would not accept the results would make him..... no one.  Because Al Gore had more class than Trump seems to have at the moment.  Although you do have to grant that Gore led the effort for the recounts.  In what was another extremely close election.

And all brings this back to Trump now - because by all accounts right now, this is not going to be an extremely close election.  We should grant, for mental gymnastics alone, that if this election is very close - on the Bush Gore, or Kennedy Nixon, or Tilden Hayes scale, that sure, Trump calling for recounts and the GOP accusing the DNC of voter fraud, and mass hysteria by the political class is all warranted and pretty expected.  But if it's not close?  If Clinton gets to 300, 340, 360 or more electoral votes?  What in the hell is he challenging?  Voter fraud on the scale necessary to even come to that would be something that no political system outside of Iraq and North Korea could function with, and for all the outrage at the left in this country, there can't seriously be a member of this GOP who would, with a straight face, say that those elections are more fair than ours.

If this election ends up close, more power to Trump.  Get every right wing lawyer in the country to file every injunction you can and let the system support itself and correct itself in the manner it was designed to do.  But if you lose huge, which it looks like you are going to do?  Then you better man up, stand in front of the cameras and make it very clear that the results are conceded.  Because if you don't there is no precedent for that in our history.  None.  There is nothing close on this scale.  And for someone running for President of this country to actually have the gonads to stand in front of 70 million people and say that he might not agree to the results?  That is a person who doesn't deserve the honor of running for the office to begin with.  And it is certainly someone that no one who has any respect for this country and its political institutions should vote for, support or even acknowledge.  He may have been the very worst form of what a current GOPer looks like right now in this nation before.  But now, he is a clear and present danger to the United States of America.  And the people that would grant him the backing to give him the ability to make that statement as the current national leader of the GOP have no right to ever again call themselves a supporter of a party that gave us Abraham Lincoln, William McKinley, Dwight Eisenhower and Ronald Reagan. 

I would say he should be ashamed of himself, but he clearly has no shame.  Nor ability to understand what his ridiculous statement/non-statement means.  This isn't a banana republic.  This isn't 18th century France on her third republic in 14 years.  This is a nation that has put in the hard work to make a republic that spans more acreage than any republic ever has, controlling more people than any republic ever has, influencing the world with more power than any republic ever has and it is a nation that requires adults in positions of power.  We deserve to proud of this nation, even with all of its faults and failures, for what it has managed to do - exist for this long allowing the civilian transfer of ultimate power every 2 or 4 years without issue save one in 1861 when our greatest leader held it all together with his will, determination and life.  Our right to vote in this nation is a calling to that form of leadership, not this.  This is disgusting.  And I am ashamed that I ever supported this party.  And everyone that is member now should be to.  His nomination should be rescinded immediately.  Let Clinton win every state by default.  That is the price we should pay for this. The GOP is dead to me. 
best review of Runaway Train i ever read.

 
I tried to think about the past Presidential elections to figure out if his hinting at possibly not accepting them matches anything that has happened in the past.
Fwiw in 2004 Kerry did not give his concession speech the night of the election even though he was pretty well beat by Bush.

Although you do have to grant that Gore led the effort for the recounts.  In what was another extremely close election.
Gore sued Bush in the USSC. He finally conceded because he had to.

Both of these are 'ok'. The problem is people who claimed 'stolen!' after and maybe some still do. And it's not just that in and of itself but it's corrosive. 2008 & 2012 some Republicans claimed that Obama was illegitimate as president because he wasn't qualified, So 2000, 2004, 2008, 2012, now 2016... this stuff is catching up to us.

 
Fwiw in 2004 Kerry did not give his concession speech the night of the election even though he was pretty well beat by Bush.

Gore sued Bush in the USSC. He finally conceded because he had to.

Both of these are 'ok'. The problem is people who claimed 'stolen!' after and maybe some still do. And it's not just that in and of itself but it's corrosive. 2008 & 2012 some Republicans claimed that Obama was illegitimate as president because he wasn't qualified, So 2000, 2004, 2008, 2012, now 2016... this stuff is catching up to us.
I know.  I blame the GOP.  I printed out the change of voter declaration for my state today.  I'm done with this party.

 
1876 - Hayes Tilden.  Another one that went to the House.  Instead of doing their job like they did in previous years they created a committee to decide the election and the committee selected Hayes.  But at least we get close to Trump's problem here.  Because the reason it went to the House was that while Tilden won the popular vote by a lot, he was one vote shy of the majority of the electoral college requirement.  And the reason for that was that four states were disputing their own results and each party in those states was accusing each other of fraud in the election.  So this might be the closest thing we have to what is going on now.  Except that once it was figured out that nothing like this had happened before - fraud accusations stopping states from counting their ballots or certifying their results - the two party's worked together and came up with the idea for the commission inside the House.  And then that commission chose.  So while there were accusations all of the place, in the end, the party's worked together to figure out a resolution and then abided by that resolution.

So Trump hinting he would not accept the results would make him... the states of South Carolina, Oregon, Florida and/or Louisiana here as they were the states that alleged voter fraud within their state systems.  But they never fought the ultimate result of the House. 


Louisiana was the Florida of the day.

 
Love Runaway train, Jon Voigt, Eric Roberts and Rebecca Demornay are all great as is the head guy in the control room particularly when they send them on the dead end track

 
Well Yankee you didn't mention the most obvious one which is 1860. It's true that no candidate challenged the legitimacy of that election, but a whole state did. The state government of South Carolina determined that if a Republican was elected President that was an illegitimate result, and they had the right to leave the USA because of that result. 

 
timschochet said:
68. Runaway Train (1985)

Directed by: Andrei Konchalovsky

Starring: Jon Voight, Eric Roberts, Rebecca De Mornay, John P. Ryan

This film is largely forgotten now but is a great thriller that features Jon Voight in what I consider to be his finest acting performance. The plot is based on an Akira Kurosawa story: two convicts escape from an Alaska prison onto the first train they can find, but it's a runaway train that can't be stopped or slowed down.

All of the acting in this film is excellent, particularly Voight and Eric Roberts, both of whom were nominated for Academy Awards. The action is both extremely suspensful and grueling. As with all of Konchalovsky's films, the cinematography is awesome, particularly the last few minutes of the film in which Voight stands on top of the train, a rebellious figure victorious yet going to his death. Unfortunately this film is not available on instant video nor, to the best of my knowledge, has it been on TV in years. If you want to see it you have send away for the DVD. But its a worthwhile watch.

Next up: I'm an excellent driver.
I watched this movie a few months ago on one of the streaming services for premium cable channels (e.g. HBOGo, Showtime Anytime). 

It held up very well.  The setting doesn't date it as an 80s movie which hurts many other films of the era.  Voight and Roberts overact but it somehow works in the context of the movie.  The DeMornay character seems is a plot device but not a ridiculous one.  The action sequences and stunt work are first rate.  The closed environments of the prison and the train add to the tautness of the story.

It's the finest production from schlockmeisters Menahem Golan and Yorum Globus (Cannon Films).

 
Well Yankee you didn't mention the most obvious one which is 1860. It's true that no candidate challenged the legitimacy of that election, but a whole state did. The state government of South Carolina determined that if a Republican was elected President that was an illegitimate result, and they had the right to leave the USA because of that result. 
I don't get it, SC did send its electors (all Breckenridge) to the Electoral College, no?

 
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Well Yankee you didn't mention the most obvious one which is 1860. It's true that no candidate challenged the legitimacy of that election, but a whole state did. The state government of South Carolina determined that if a Republican was elected President that was an illegitimate result, and they had the right to leave the USA because of that result. 
If the GOP starts a civil war I'll be on the other side.

 
That's a great question. I don't know but I'll bet they didn't. By the time the electors voted I think SC had already seceded. Yankee do you know? 
The vote for secession was on December 20. South Carolina didn't hold a popular vote and the legislature voted to give their electors to Breckenridge.  They were counted for him in the official tally that was ultimately certified in February because back them the office didn't start until March. But by then secession already was underway.

 
The vote for secession was on December 20. South Carolina didn't hold a popular vote and the legislature voted to give their electors to Breckenridge.  They were counted for him in the official tally that was ultimately certified in February because back them the office didn't start until March. But by then secession already was underway.
Ok so technically SC accepted the election but no longer wanted to be in the Union it had created.

 
timschochet said:
68. Runaway Train (1985)

Directed by: Andrei Konchalovsky

Starring: Jon Voight, Eric Roberts, Rebecca De Mornay, John P. Ryan

This film is largely forgotten now but is a great thriller that features Jon Voight in what I consider to be his finest acting performance. The plot is based on an Akira Kurosawa story: two convicts escape from an Alaska prison onto the first train they can find, but it's a runaway train that can't be stopped or slowed down.

All of the acting in this film is excellent, particularly Voight and Eric Roberts, both of whom were nominated for Academy Awards. The action is both extremely suspensful and grueling. As with all of Konchalovsky's films, the cinematography is awesome, particularly the last few minutes of the film in which Voight stands on top of the train, a rebellious figure victorious yet going to his death. Unfortunately this film is not available on instant video nor, to the best of my knowledge, has it been on TV in years. If you want to see it you have send away for the DVD. But its a worthwhile watch.

Next up: I'm an excellent driver.
Great movie! Took me awhile to realize that was Jon Voight. 

 
67. Rain Man (1988)

 Directed by: Barry Levinson

Starring: Dustin Hoffman, Tom Cruise

Hoffman won an Academy Award for Best Actor, but I've always felt that, unlike other films of his (a few of which we'll get to) he probably didn't deserve it because his character was somewhat easier to portray, with all of his ticks. 

Conversely, the guy who really deserved the kudos for a great acting performance in this film is Cruise. He's the one whose character evolves and who displays great emotion. Tom Cruise is generally considered more of a movie star than a great actor, but he has been in some of the best serious dramas of his era, and this is one of them. Rain Man represents IMO his finest performance. The chemistry between the two actors is great throughout, owing to the excellent dialogue and fine direction. The Italian girl is pretty hot too.

Up next: Now that's what I call a close encounter! 

 
67. Rain Man (1988)

 Directed by: Barry Levinson

Starring: Dustin Hoffman, Tom Cruise

Hoffman won an Academy Award for Best Actor, but I've always felt that, unlike other films of his (a few of which we'll get to) he probably didn't deserve it because his character was somewhat easier to portray, with all of his ticks. 

Conversely, the guy who really deserved the kudos for a great acting performance in this film is Cruise. He's the one whose character evolves and who displays great emotion. Tom Cruise is generally considered more of a movie star than a great actor, but he has been in some of the best serious dramas of his era, and this is one of them. Rain Man represents IMO his finest performance. The chemistry between the two actors is great throughout, owing to the excellent dialogue and fine direction. The Italian girl is pretty hot too.

Up next: Now that's what I call a close encounter! 
I think Hoffman was great in it and Cruise was good, but nothing outstanding. I think that his best role came in Born On The Fourth of July.

 
66. Independence Day (1996)

Directed by: Roland Emmerich

Starring: Will Smith, Bill Pullman, Jeff Goldblum

On my list there are going to be a few movies that I would call "comic book"- these are not serious films, they have plots that are hardly believable, but their entertainment value is almost matchless. Independence Day clearly falls into this category. You have to suspend logical thinking through most of it, and that's always going to cause certain types to disparage such films. But it's a cinematic wonder, suspense filled- and it's fun. It's one of the most fun movies I've ever witnessed on the big screen.

Do NOT waste your time on the sequel. I did. 20 years later, all the fun was somehow removed. It was awful.

Up next: Who was that pointy-eared *******?

 
65. Star Trek (2009)

Directed by: JJ Abrams

Starring: Chris Pine, Zachary Quinto, Leonard Nimoy

Awesome reboot of the Star Trek franchise. One of the most entertaining movies of the last decade. The great relationship between Kirk and Spock is recaptured here, and the action is terrific. The sequel wasn't nearly as good: way too dark and the reversal from Wrath of Khan (Kirk dies instead of Spock) was just silly. I haven't seen the 3rd one yet. But this movie easily makes my list. IMO it's the second best Star Trek film ever made.

Up next: I was a stand-up tomato: a juicy, sexy, beefsteak tomato. Nobody does vegetables like me. I did an evening of vegetables off-Broadway. I did the best tomato, the best cucumber... I did an endive salad that knocked the critics on their ###.

 
64. Tootsie (1982)

Directed by: Sydney Pollack

Starring: Dustin Hoffman, Jessica Lange, Bill Murray, Dabney Coleman, Teri Garr

Arguably Hoffman's greatest role, and one of the most brilliant comedies ever filmed. As a teenager watching this film I fell in love with Jessica Lange. The only sad part is that the misogynistic treatment of women portrayed in this movie apparently hasn't changed much in the last 35 years, if Donald Trump is any example. 

I just watched this again recently and it's as entertaining as ever.

Up next: Now hold it, hold it. We're about to accuse Haldeman, who only happens to be the second most important man in this country, of conducting a criminal conspiracy from inside the White House. It would be nice if we were right.

 
Star Trek was good but needed a better villain.

Not a fan of Tootsie.

I've always disliked ID4. The first half was good. The second was terrible B-movie.

 
I've always disliked ID4. The first half was good. The second was terrible B-movie.
I agree with this. Independence Day had a great first half, with an exciting build up.

The second half became typical action movie junk along with the "computer virus" that saves the world!?

I still remember at the end, Bill Pullman smiling, while holding his daughter - Hey, you're wife died yesterday, remember?

 
63. All The President's Men (1976)

Directed by: Alan J. Pakula

Starring: Dustin Hoffman, Robert Redford, Jason Robards, Hal Holbrook

Taut, thoroughly compelling newsroom drama about Watergate. We don't really learn too much about the characters involved, their personal lives, etc., but that would be a distraction from the storyline. This movie isn't suspenseful in the way other films are; at no time will the viewer jump in his seat as a result of some shock on screen. Yet the allure of the mystery unfolding is impossible to turn away from. 

This film is a throwback to the days when the news media was thought by almost all to be objective and honorable. I still think it is, but sadly, we now live in a society where a majority don't. That makes this movie into what it was never meant to be: a portrayal of an idealized time in the past. 

Up next: You get out there, and the stands are full and everybody's cheerin'. It's like everybody in the world come to see you. And inside of that there's the players, they're yakkin' it up. The pitcher throws and you look for that pill... suddenly there's nothing else in the ballpark but you and it. Sometimes, when you feel right, there's a groove there, and the bat just eases into it and meets that ball. When the bat meets that ball and you feel that ball just give, you know it's going to go a long way. Damn, if you don't feel like you're going to live forever.

 
62. Eight Men Out (1988)

Directed by: John Sayles

Starring: John Cusack, Charlie Sheen, Christopher Lloyd, John Mahoney

The story of the 1919 Chicago Black Sox, in which 8 players got paid to lose the World Series, and were banned from baseball forever. But really John Sayles is attempting an expose here on American sports in general, and gambling. This is a riveting and brilliant film with an excellent cast, perhaps the best movie ever made about professional team sports in my opinion. 

There are no heroes in this story. John Cusack as Buck Weaver is presented as reasonably honest; he doesn't take any money and attempts to play hard in every game. But he knew what was going on, and said nothing. The Sox owner, Charles Comiskey, is presented as an extreme cheapskate in an era where players have no protection whatsoever, but that doesn't excuse the cheating. Naturally in the end the only guy that ends up making money is the main gambler Art Rothstein- everybody else loses their shirt, including all the other gamblers involved. This movie is somewhat like The Sting but without the happy ending. The viewer does feel, however, that it's a just ending, except... as the film wistfully shows in the end, we'll never know if Shoeless Joe might have been one of the all time greatest baseball players...

Up next: There was a moment, when I used to blame everything and everyone for all the pain and suffering and vile things that happened to me, that I saw happen to my people. Used to blame everybody. Blamed White people, blamed society, blamed God. I didn't get no answers 'cause I was asking the wrong questions. You have to ask the right questions.

 
61. American History X (1998)

Directed by: Tony Kaye

Starring: Edward Norton, Edward Furlong, Avery Brooks, Fairuza Balk

Riveting movie about skinheads. This is probably Edward Norton's best performance on screen; he is immediately both likable and repellent as a neo-Nazi. Likewise, there is something both incredibly sexy and scary about Fairuza Balk in this film. But even beyond them, Ethan Surplee (playing the exact opposite in his role from Remember The Titans) is simply unforgettable on screen. The direction is also superb; this movie has the look of a 90s Sublime video. Everything about it is fascinating.

A scary aspect of this film is that a lot of the message that was so attractive to the skinheads (white people feeling alienated and outnumbered) still resonates today, except with even more people, and we see it's rhetoric moderated and toned down slightly influencing the alt-right movement and the campaign of Donald Trump. 18 years later, the hate and fear remain, unfortunately. 

Next up: You're not perfect, sport, and let me save you the suspense: this girl you've met, she's not perfect either. But the question is whether or not you're perfect for each other.

 
61. American History X (1998)
In college, a few years before AM X came out, I shaved my head during pledge season and then grew out a full beard. I looked 100% skinhead.

Now, I'm not a big guy, at all - but on three separate occasions when I sat down on the NYC subway, the people next to me / near me literally got up and walked to the other end of the subway car. 

 
Look at me, I'm a baaaad white supremacist.

Whoa! That's what power is all about? That sucks and really makes me rethink my life.

Hey kid. Don't be like me or else...OH SNAP YOU DIDN'T LISTEN AND NOW YOU'RE DEAD!

Did you get the message John Q  Audience? 
Least he made it out of prison only getting butt ####ed a handful of times instead of a handful of years  :shrug:

 
Look at me, I'm a baaaad white supremacist.

Whoa! That's what power is all about? That sucks and really makes me rethink my life.

Hey kid. Don't be like me or else...OH SNAP YOU DIDN'T LISTEN AND NOW YOU'RE DEAD!

Did you get the message John Q  Audience? 
See I don't worry about stuff like that. I have a feeling you'll find several of my upcoming films heavy handed, because many of them have moral messages, and I like feel good films (though this is not a feel good film). 

But the key is entertainment. Does the film keep me riveted? This one certainly does. 

 
See I don't worry about stuff like that. I have a feeling you'll find several of my upcoming films heavy handed, because many of them have moral messages, and I like feel good films (though this is not a feel good film). 

But the key is entertainment. Does the film keep me riveted? This one certainly does. 
I like movies that deliver a message. They just need to be more subtle than curb stomping me with it.

 
60. Good Will Hunting (1997)

Directed by: Gus Van Sant

Starring: Robin Williams, Matt Damon, Minnie Driver, Ben Affleck

This film is so well written that it almost makes me think that Matt Damon and Ben Affleck have wasted their careers as movie star actors, because this script seriously rises to the level, IMO, of some of the very greats of the movie industry: Paddy Chayefsky, Aaron Sorkin, Woody Allen, etc. It is sharp, smart, witty and profound, and while it's doubtful that people would speak this way in real life, it works very well in a movie (or a play).

The acting is marvelous too, particularly Damon and Williams, both of them in their best roles ever I believe. The chemistry between the two is excellent. But everybody is really good in this film, including Affleck, who doesn't have a big role but has one great scene in which he does a fine job. Minnie Driver is also good, and very sexy. I would be amiss in not mentioning the songs by the late Eliot Smith, a Nick Drake disciple which gives the film a certain slow feel that works tremendously well.

Next up: People are frightened by what they don't understand.

 
For you fans of Runaway Train, it just became available on Blu Ray from Twilight Time (a site that specializes in releasing limited number runs of certain movies - they're legit).

 
59. The Elephant Man (1980)

Directed by: David Lynch

Starring: Anthony Hopkins, John Hurt, Anne Bancroft, John Gielgud, Wendy Hiller

Eraserhead with a plot.

For those who have never seen Eraserhead, it was David Lynch's first film, and it's visually stunning. But it doesn't make my top 100 favorite films because it lacks a plot and is just too damn slow. (I feel the same way about many of the films of Fellini and Ingmar Bergman: extraordinary visual masterpieces, but slowwwww to watch.)

The Elephant Man uses much of Lynch's technique from the earlier film: black and white, disturbing and fascinating visual scenes, and some just plain weirdness (like the mother in the moon spouting poetry in the last moments of the movie- what the hell is that?) But this time there is a plot as well, and a tragic one: the real life story of John Merrick, the Elephant Man who was treated as a freak in Victorian London and then became a celebrity.

The acting is superb in this movie as most of the actors come from a distinguished stage background. The dialogue and script are crisp. But Lynch's strange direction is what gives this movie such a unique flavor.

Up next: You know, every now and then, I think you might like to hear something from us nice and easy. But there's just one thing: we never, ever do nothing nice and easy, we always do it nice and rough. So we're gonna take the beginning of this song and do it easy, and then we're gonna do the finish rough.

 
58. What's Love Got to Do with It (1993)

Directed by: Brian Gibson

Starring: Angela Bassett, Laurence Fishburne

For my money the best rock bio film ever made. Part of the reason is the tremendous music (Tina Turner redoes her own singing on most of her classic songs), another is the fine perfomance by Bassett, and part of it is the excellent script based on the book by Tina and Rolling Stone journalist Kurt Loder. The "A Fool In Love" scene at the Apollo is one of my favorite moments ever on screen- it captures the excitement of early rock and roll like nothing else I've seen.

But most of all, it's Laurence Fishburne as Ike Turner. This is IMO Fishburne's best performance by far, and he manages to make Ike both charming and menacing at the same time. It is just as interesting to watch his character fall as it is to watch Bassett's character rise. This is one of the great villains in movie history. The rape scene is especially brutal and hard to watch. In the end, though, Tina Turner's life is a triumph and a great character to root for.

Up next: The richest one percent of this country owns half our country's wealth, five trillion dollars. One third of that comes from hard work, two thirds comes from inheritance, interest on interest accumulating to widows and idiot sons and what I do, stock and real estate speculation. It's bull####. You got ninety percent of the American public out there with little or no net worth. I create nothing. I own. We make the rules, pal. The news, war, peace, famine, upheaval, the price per paper clip. We pick that rabbit out of the hat while everybody sits out there wondering how the hell we did it. Now you're not naive enough to think we're living in a democracy, are you buddy? It's the free market. And you're a part of it. You've got that killer instinct. Stick around pal, I've still got a lot to teach you.

 
Which ones do you especially dislike? 
Quite a few.  Some I've never heard of.  Some I've heard of and aggressively avoided (Can't Buy Me Love.  Really?).  All that said, I will go with Independence Day as my especially disliked choice here.  The entire film is just insipid, with the most awful moment being when they take down the aliens with a home-brewed virus.  That's bad even by summer blockbuster standards.   

 

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