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Judge Smails

It's been a great run Peyton - now enjoy retirement..

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Three touchdown passes. Looked great after a rocky start. He's 39 years old. Of course he was better when he was 28. But he's still a top 10 quaterback in the NFL. And top 5 in fantasy.

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Definitely not top-5 in fantasy. But we can re-visit that in a few weeks when your enthusiasm subsides a bit :)

However, this was a beyond impressive performance from a 39-year old. Obviously, his arm strength is lacking and no one respects his deep ball. Obviously, his O-line is horrible at run blocking and both of his RBs do not seem anything special. Yet - without a deep ball and without a viable run game and with only two stand-out WRs - Manning repeatedly dissected one of the superior NFL defenses. He did this with ~100% short-to-intermediate throws. He seemed to connect with Demaryius and Sanders almost at will and despite the defense's concerted efforts to cover only them. When BOTH were double-covered, he moved the chains using random guys like Norwood, Virgil and Daniels. Overall, the only reason the Broncos were in position to win this one was Manning's surgical performance in the short and intermediate game.

I don't think he will be throwing for 250 and 3TDs most weeks, so temper your enthusiasm as a fantasy owner. But in the real NFL world, if that defense unit continues to hold on to its end of the bargain, I do think Denver might have its best shot at a SB during its entire Manning period.

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This reminds me of his first three weeks in Denver. He had just missed a year and people were afraid his neck might never be the same. His arm strength was noticeably weaker. He was working with good receivers in a new system. And he was missing them, sometimes badly.

We all know how he ended up doing that year, and the year after. But the thing I'm interested in is the adjustment. It took him a couple weeks to figure out his timing. Like a batter starting his swing a little earlier, or a pitcher who uses smarts instead of speed to get guys out, manning needs to figure out how much to adjust his timing because the ball isn't just coming out slower, his arm is taking longer to release.

If you go back and watch some of the throws last week and early last night, he was underthrowing guys on deep balls, then slightly overthrowing them on the next pass. It looks like he's just inaccurate, but I think he's learning. If I want to hit Thomas in stride I need to let go now, not a split second later the way I used to. Which means I need to anticipate a little earlier, and start my arm moving a little earlier.

By the end of the game he looked better than at the start of last game. You'd think he'd have worked these things out in preseason, but it's different when you're avoiding an actual pass rush that isn't going to pull up on a hit.

I don't know if he can reinvent himself as a quarterback with a noodle arm who can still throw for 4500/40. But I think we're going to see continued adjustments and a transformation. He seems more locked in to sanders both games than I had expected, and seemed more willing to throw jump balls towards Thomas last night. I don't own him, but I see the upside starting to happen.

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I asked this elsewhere, but is there any truth to what some people were saying last night that when Manning was doing Kubiak's thing it wasn't working, but when Peyton reverted to a Manning game things worked?

ETA: I'm super curious about the "head-butting" between Manning and Kubiak that has been alleged. Seems like ticking trouble....

Edited by Old Smiley

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I feel more comfortable rolling him out there next week after his late surge in the game. He has fantastic WR and a juicy schedule.

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I asked this elsewhere, but is there any truth to what some people were saying last night that when Manning was doing Kubiak's thing it wasn't working, but when Peyton reverted to a Manning game things worked?

ETA: I'm super curious about the "head-butting" between Manning and Kubiak that has been alleged. Seems like ticking trouble....

Kubiak asks him to go under center and do playaction. He likes being in shotgun

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I asked this elsewhere, but is there any truth to what some people were saying last night that when Manning was doing Kubiak's thing it wasn't working, but when Peyton reverted to a Manning game things worked?

ETA: I'm super curious about the "head-butting" between Manning and Kubiak that has been alleged. Seems like ticking trouble....

Kubiak asks him to go under center and do playaction. He likes being in shotgun

Well Peyton's just a HOF QB and top 5 all time. Gary Kubiak coached the Texans to the tune of 61-64!

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Bryan McWethy @BryanMcWethyOCS
The question now, how long until Peyton tells Kubiak they're running his system from start to finish each wk?

Sigmund Bloom ‏@SigmundBloom 1m1 minute ago
Imagine we won't see much of the Kubiak system again this year. Would be great news for Manning/Thomas/Sanders

That's the back and forth I'm wondering about... Some people here last night were conjecturing that Manning actually went rogue a few times.

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I asked this elsewhere, but is there any truth to what some people were saying last night that when Manning was doing Kubiak's thing it wasn't working, but when Peyton reverted to a Manning game things worked?

ETA: I'm super curious about the "head-butting" between Manning and Kubiak that has been alleged. Seems like ticking trouble....

If there's a question about who's method is more effective, it was answered last night. Manning was a different player once he dropped back into the shotgun. Would love to find out that he made the decision on his own.

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Bryan McWethy @BryanMcWethyOCS

The question now, how long until Peyton tells Kubiak they're running his system from start to finish each wk?

Sigmund Bloom ‏@SigmundBloom 1m1 minute ago

Imagine we won't see much of the Kubiak system again this year. Would be great news for Manning/Thomas/Sanders

That's the back and forth I'm wondering about... Some people here last night were conjecturing that Manning actually went rogue a few times.

I have no evidence but my eyes showed me Peyton Manning looking the most uncomfortable he has looked at QB since he was a rookie. Then they go no huddle shotgun and Peyton starts marching up and down the field.

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Do you guys really think Manning decided on his own to #### the coach and just start lining up in the shotgun?

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Do you guys really think Manning decided on his own to #### the coach and just start lining up in the shotgun?

I couldn't see the game. I was following here and at the NFL game center gizmo. Couple people in the game thread said that the first time there was a stretch of what you'd call "Peyton's offense" that Kubiak looked PO'd on the sideline.

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Do you guys really think Manning decided on his own to #### the coach and just start lining up in the shotgun?

No I don't, however I could see a meeting with Elway Kubes and Peyton, and basically saying, lets scrap all the roll out play action bootleg nonsense and let peyton play ball.

After they smash Detroit next week all will be right with the world

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Do you guys really think Manning decided on his own to #### the coach and just start lining up in the shotgun?

No I don't, however I could see a meeting with Elway Kubes and Peyton, and basically saying, lets scrap all the roll out play action bootleg nonsense and let peyton play ball.

After they smash Detroit next week all will be right with the world

Agree with that 100%. Looks like they took the first steps towards that last night. I think the 0-ine will play better.They have 3 guys making only their second starts last night. Funny thing is so far they have been better then the 2 pro bowl veterans.

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Do you guys really think Manning decided on his own to #### the coach and just start lining up in the shotgun?

No I don't, however I could see a meeting with Elway Kubes and Peyton, and basically saying, lets scrap all the roll out play action bootleg nonsense and let peyton play ball.

After they smash Detroit next week all will be right with the world

All the talk in Denver today concludes with the following;

They're going to continue to work on Kub's offense, which means the O Line has to get A LOT better, but in a pinch, they can go back to the 'ol PM offense if it comes down to it.

No matter what happens with the old PM offense, we all know it won't work in the playoffs, so they've got a few weeks to work out the kinks.

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Do you guys really think Manning decided on his own to #### the coach and just start lining up in the shotgun?

No I don't, however I could see a meeting with Elway Kubes and Peyton, and basically saying, lets scrap all the roll out play action bootleg nonsense and let peyton play ball.

After they smash Detroit next week all will be right with the world

All the talk in Denver today concludes with the following;

They're going to continue to work on Kub's offense, which means the O Line has to get A LOT better, but in a pinch, they can go back to the 'ol PM offense if it comes down to it.

No matter what happens with the old PM offense, we all know it won't work in the playoffs, so they've got a few weeks to work out the kinks.

Every agrees the o-line needs to play better, they need to run more and Manning needs to line up in the shotgun.

Edited by Mile High

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Do you guys really think Manning decided on his own to #### the coach and just start lining up in the shotgun?

No I don't, however I could see a meeting with Elway Kubes and Peyton, and basically saying, lets scrap all the roll out play action bootleg nonsense and let peyton play ball.

After they smash Detroit next week all will be right with the world

All the talk in Denver today concludes with the following;

They're going to continue to work on Kub's offense, which means the O Line has to get A LOT better, but in a pinch, they can go back to the 'ol PM offense if it comes down to it.

No matter what happens with the old PM offense, we all know it won't work in the playoffs, so they've got a few weeks to work out the kinks.

Damn, that has to be frustrating for Broncos fans. Use the prolific offense that works and all the players want to use, or force Kubiak's proven-to-be-unsuccessful offense down their throats. I can see a major blowout between Manning and Kubiak in the future.

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Do you guys really think Manning decided on his own to #### the coach and just start lining up in the shotgun?

No I don't, however I could see a meeting with Elway Kubes and Peyton, and basically saying, lets scrap all the roll out play action bootleg nonsense and let peyton play ball.

After they smash Detroit next week all will be right with the world

All the talk in Denver today concludes with the following;

They're going to continue to work on Kub's offense, which means the O Line has to get A LOT better, but in a pinch, they can go back to the 'ol PM offense if it comes down to it.

No matter what happens with the old PM offense, we all know it won't work in the playoffs, so they've got a few weeks to work out the kinks.

Damn, that has to be frustrating for Broncos fans. Use the prolific offense that works and all the players want to use, or force Kubiak's proven-to-be-unsuccessful offense down their throats. I can see a major blowout between Manning and Kubiak in the future.

But the problem is that prolific offense only works in the regular season, and John Elway and Kubiac know it. You have to have a running game...

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Do you guys really think Manning decided on his own to #### the coach and just start lining up in the shotgun?

No I don't, however I could see a meeting with Elway Kubes and Peyton, and basically saying, lets scrap all the roll out play action bootleg nonsense and let peyton play ball.

After they smash Detroit next week all will be right with the world

All the talk in Denver today concludes with the following;

They're going to continue to work on Kub's offense, which means the O Line has to get A LOT better, but in a pinch, they can go back to the 'ol PM offense if it comes down to it.

No matter what happens with the old PM offense, we all know it won't work in the playoffs, so they've got a few weeks to work out the kinks.

Damn, that has to be frustrating for Broncos fans. Use the prolific offense that works and all the players want to use, or force Kubiak's proven-to-be-unsuccessful offense down their throats. I can see a major blowout between Manning and Kubiak in the future.

But the problem is that prolific offense only works in the regular season, and John Elway and Kubiac know it. You have to have a running game...
Yeah their running game is killing it right now.

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Do you guys really think Manning decided on his own to #### the coach and just start lining up in the shotgun?

No I don't, however I could see a meeting with Elway Kubes and Peyton, and basically saying, lets scrap all the roll out play action bootleg nonsense and let peyton play ball.

After they smash Detroit next week all will be right with the world

All the talk in Denver today concludes with the following;

They're going to continue to work on Kub's offense, which means the O Line has to get A LOT better, but in a pinch, they can go back to the 'ol PM offense if it comes down to it.

No matter what happens with the old PM offense, we all know it won't work in the playoffs, so they've got a few weeks to work out the kinks.

Damn, that has to be frustrating for Broncos fans. Use the prolific offense that works and all the players want to use, or force Kubiak's proven-to-be-unsuccessful offense down their throats. I can see a major blowout between Manning and Kubiak in the future.

But the problem is that prolific offense only works in the regular season, and John Elway and Kubiac know it. You have to have a running game...

A football game is a football game. Last year, Manning was hurt. And it showed. Yes, you need some semblance of a running game, but wasn't CJ Anderson running great at the end of the season? You run your offense based on the personnel you have. To waste Manning's skills by trying to force him to be something he's not (a 5 step drop back passer), you are making your team worse. And I still don't understand why a playoff game is different than a regular season game.

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Peyton's offense works fine in the playoffs

Wild card and divisional rounds of the playoffs.

So there's a special offense that works best in AFC Championship games?

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Do you guys really think Manning decided on his own to #### the coach and just start lining up in the shotgun?

No I don't, however I could see a meeting with Elway Kubes and Peyton, and basically saying, lets scrap all the roll out play action bootleg nonsense and let peyton play ball.

After they smash Detroit next week all will be right with the world

All the talk in Denver today concludes with the following;

They're going to continue to work on Kub's offense, which means the O Line has to get A LOT better, but in a pinch, they can go back to the 'ol PM offense if it comes down to it.

No matter what happens with the old PM offense, we all know it won't work in the playoffs, so they've got a few weeks to work out the kinks.

Damn, that has to be frustrating for Broncos fans. Use the prolific offense that works and all the players want to use, or force Kubiak's proven-to-be-unsuccessful offense down their throats. I can see a major blowout between Manning and Kubiak in the future.

But the problem is that prolific offense only works in the regular season, and John Elway and Kubiac know it. You have to have a running game...

I must be mistaken but I'm pretty sure they destroyed everyone a couple years ago until they got to the Super Bowl against an all time great defense. Seemed to work ok then.

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Peyton's offense works fine in the playoffs

Wild card and divisional rounds of the playoffs.

apparently it was the type of offense that made them lose and not running into a better team?

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Who gives a crap what the offense did two seasons ago? Peyton looks like a girl throwing out there right now.

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Who gives a crap what the offense did two seasons ago? Peyton looks like a girl throwing out there right now.

Another guy who fell asleep after the first quarter last night.

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Who gives a crap what the offense did two seasons ago? Peyton looks like a girl throwing out there right now.

Another guy who fell asleep after the first quarter last night.

He was throwing slow, behind the target, wounded ducks all night long. Twice for touchdowns.

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Who gives a crap what the offense did two seasons ago? Peyton looks like a girl throwing out there right now.

Another guy who fell asleep after the first quarter last night.

He was throwing slow, behind the target, wounded ducks all night long. Twice for touchdowns.

280 yards and three TDs. In one of the most hostile environments in the NFL. Those ducks seemed to be pretty effective.

He's 39 years old. He doesn't have a howitzer for an arm. But he showed last night that he is still a very effective quarterback out of the shotgun.

Quack quack

Edited by JuniorNB

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Peyton's offense works fine in the playoffs

Wild card and divisional rounds of the playoffs.

So there's a special offense that works best in AFC Championship games?

Yes, it's called a balanced offense. I don't know how many seasons we need to go through where Manning has all world numbers in the regular season, and then the whole circus turns to $H!7 in the playoffs.

It's not all Manning, but you have to be able to do more than one thing.

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Peyton's offense works fine in the playoffs

Wild card and divisional rounds of the playoffs.

So there's a special offense that works best in AFC Championship games?

Yes, it's called a balanced offense. I don't know how many seasons we need to go through where Manning has all world numbers in the regular season, and then the whole circus turns to $H!7 in the playoffs.

It's not all Manning, but you have to be able to do more than one thing.

Sometimes you're simply not the best team in the NFL. Denver looked like crap last night doing it the Kubiak way. And looked great doing it Manning's way. He hasn't been in Denver that long and already took them to the Super Bowl. Their clock is almost striking midnight. This is probably Manning's last year. Next year at the very latest. Change it for Osweiler after that. To move away from Peyton's strengths is just idiotic.

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If you go back and watch some of the throws last week and early last night, he was underthrowing guys on deep balls, then slightly overthrowing them on the next pass. It looks like he's just inaccurate, but I think he's learning. If I want to hit Thomas in stride I need to let go now, not a split second later the way I used to. Which means I need to anticipate a little earlier, and start my arm moving a little earlier.

Isn't this the kind of thing you're supposed to be dialing in throughout training camp, practices, preseason? Not your 2nd live NFL game of the season?

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If you go back and watch some of the throws last week and early last night, he was underthrowing guys on deep balls, then slightly overthrowing them on the next pass. It looks like he's just inaccurate, but I think he's learning. If I want to hit Thomas in stride I need to let go now, not a split second later the way I used to. Which means I need to anticipate a little earlier, and start my arm moving a little earlier.

Isn't this the kind of thing you're supposed to be dialing in throughout training camp, practices, preseason? Not your 2nd live NFL game of the season?

Of course. And believe me, I'm no apologist. But there's no way to practice dealing with an actual pass rush that is trying to hit you hard. And when the time from thinking I should throw this to your arm getting rid of the ball goes up just a little, that additional pressure makes you fall back on old instincts so you throw a split second late. Then you realize it and throw a split second early. Then you find yourself a little off, and now you're throwing a little earlier and a little higher than you wanted. Then you find the groove you had in practice, when you were wearing a red no contact jersey and the defense would run up screaming then pull up at the last second.

When Manning first came back from his year off, it took about three games. He seems to be on a similar pace now.

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Who gives a crap what the offense did two seasons ago? Peyton looks like a girl throwing out there right now.

Another guy who fell asleep after the first quarter last night.

He was throwing slow, behind the target, wounded ducks all night long. Twice for touchdowns.

280 yards and three TDs. In one of the most hostile environments in the NFL. Those ducks seemed to be pretty effective.

He's 39 years old. He doesn't have a howitzer for an arm. But he showed last night that he is still a very effective quarterback out of the shotgun.

Quack quack

And he throws like a girl. :shrug:

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Peyton's offense works fine in the playoffs

Wild card and divisional rounds of the playoffs.

So there's a special offense that works best in AFC Championship games?

Yes, it's called a balanced offense. I don't know how many seasons we need to go through where Manning has all world numbers in the regular season, and then the whole circus turns to $H!7 in the playoffs.

It's not all Manning, but you have to be able to do more than one thing.

Sometimes you're simply not the best team in the NFL. Denver looked like crap last night doing it the Kubiak way. And looked great doing it Manning's way. He hasn't been in Denver that long and already took them to the Super Bowl. Their clock is almost striking midnight. This is probably Manning's last year. Next year at the very latest. Change it for Osweiler after that. To move away from Peyton's strengths is just idiotic.

Oh, no doubt... I readily admit that the Broncos weren't the best team. Thinking about this a different way... Elway won two Super Bowls late in his carrer, when the team wasn't ENTIRELY dependent on him. This is what he is trying to create now. Elway had pedestrian numbers in the SB against Green Bay, passing for 123 yds. I think even he would suggest that the best player in that game, and maybe the best player that season, was Terrell Davis.

You don't have to have a QB put up massive numbers to win big games, you need a balanced attack. Elway could burn them when he needed to, and TD was nearly unstoppable.

Good defenses know exactly how to defend Manning. KC had his number until they went all "prevent us from winning" D... and Manning knew it. If you're a one trick pony, your hosed... as the Broncos were last evening, until the D pulled it out.

Edited by charlatan

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Who gives a crap what the offense did two seasons ago? Peyton looks like a girl throwing out there right now.

Another guy who fell asleep after the first quarter last night.

He was throwing slow, behind the target, wounded ducks all night long. Twice for touchdowns.

280 yards and three TDs. In one of the most hostile environments in the NFL. Those ducks seemed to be pretty effective.

He's 39 years old. He doesn't have a howitzer for an arm. But he showed last night that he is still a very effective quarterback out of the shotgun.

Quack quack

And he throws like a girl. :shrug:

first girl to ever throw for three touchdowns in a NFL game. She's doing well.

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Don't buy that there's certain offenses that work better in the playoffs. This is the NFL. The opposing teams get a week to prepare for you so it's not like teams start suddenly scheming in the playoffs. It's just that the 1 game playoff has some randomness to it, you need to catch fire and get a bit lucky.

And last time I checked, it's easiest to run the ball when the defense is scared of the passing attack.

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Peyton had 2 good drives the entire game. Everything else he was over thinking and looked a little scared on his throws. BUT when they were down 14-0 he stopped thinking so much and just went for it and looked really good on that drive to end the half. Then they tie it up and he goes back inot a shell over thinking everything and beign timid. Like in the first half they go down 7 with 2 minutes he again just lets it go and he looks great ...... granted DT made him look great on some passes -- but Peyton trusted his WR to get the ball.

People it's not arm strength -- Peyton never had much especially after he cam to Denver -- his arm is the exact same it was 3 years ago his issue right now is mental IMO. Once he gets more confidence he should be pretty good ........... will he be what he was the last 3 years - likely not but that is due to his oline not being that great or even good. They suck at run blockign almost as much as pass blocking. Once Peyton learns how to work with it he will be solid. Top 5 solid ........ has a good shot. I can very much see a 3800 30 TD season for Peyton this year. Is that what he has done recently -- no but still worthy of being a every week FF starter.

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Just because he's never had a really strong arm doesn't mean he couldn't have lost arm strength. In a way, it makes it harder to overcome when you didn't have much margin for error to begin with.

It's certainly not only arm strength, but I don't see how you can watch him throw the ball and say he hasn't lost anything.

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If Chiefs #30 didn't have hands of stone... may have been ugly (and these were EZ pics too... right in his hands). Another guy dropped one as well.

I'm not sold that Manning is fixed, but I am sold that Andy Reid/Alex Smith are not winning anything.

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Just because he's never had a really strong arm doesn't mean he couldn't have lost arm strength. In a way, it makes it harder to overcome when you didn't have much margin for error to begin with.

It's certainly not only arm strength, but I don't see how you can watch him throw the ball and say he hasn't lost anything.

He had some bad throws and some really good ones. I think the arm strength issue is overblown. Guys like Cutler, Stafford, and Flacco can sling it, but I would still rather have a 39 year old Peyton than any of them in real games and fantasy. I really liked what I saw from him on that last drive.

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Just because he's never had a really strong arm doesn't mean he couldn't have lost arm strength. In a way, it makes it harder to overcome when you didn't have much margin for error to begin with.

It's certainly not only arm strength, but I don't see how you can watch him throw the ball and say he hasn't lost anything.

He had some bad throws and some really good ones. I think the arm strength issue is overblown. Guys like Cutler, Stafford, and Flacco can sling it, but I would still rather have a 39 year old Peyton than any of them in real games and fantasy. I really liked what I saw from him on that last drive.

Problem is Flacco, Stafford, Cutler are not preaeason top 10 QBs If you bought into Peyton more then likely you drafted him at a spot where you wont see return in value.

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Noodle-Armed Peyton Manning should be the next DirecTV commercial.

He already has two. Skinny legs Peyton should have been dead arm Peyton.

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