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RB Ezekiel Elliott, NE (7 Viewers)

travdogg said:
100% disagree. He's just a cog. Maybe a top-10 player on the team...maybe. Pollard is likely only a small drop off. They got over 1,000 yards from end of career Darren McFadden, and several quality starts from Alfred Morris 2 years ago. 

Lawrence is a much better, and more important player than Zeke. Plus he was in a contract year. Paying him over Zeke was a no-brainer. Dak, Cooper, Byron Jones, and Jaylon Smith are all more important than Zeke too, and all of them need contracts soon.

Zeke has even less leverage than Gordon, who has none himself. 90% certain both offenses barely notice they are gone if they hold out into the season.
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Fully agree here. Ability to get to the opposing QB has a higher priority than a position with an average lifespan of less than 3 years.

The list of Super Bowl champions that also feature a rushing champion is pretty short. I doubt that it has happened during this "new era" of the forward pass. Bummer for the RB position, but that is where the NFL is at right now.

Anybody believe the Rams are happy to have all that $$$ tied up in Todd Gurley?

 
matuski said:
I'm good, you seem confused.

Certainly misinformed - about "playing hard ball" (Zeke is under contract), about the Cowboys "gambling" (Zeke's contract is part of the rookie CBA), and about him making less than Witten (he isn't). 

In hindsight, that covers about your entire run here.
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Don’t forget to breathe, son.

When your most important player (Zeke), gets paid a nickel more than your 53rd most important player (Witten), don’t be flabbergasted when the best player wants more. Write that down, son. 

 
Edgar said:
Don’t forget to breathe, son.

When your most important player (Zeke), gets paid a nickel more than your 53rd most important player (Witten), don’t be flabbergasted when the best player wants more. Write that down, son. 
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I think he was pretty clear above with the facts of the situation.  Zeke's contract was dictated by the spot in which he was drafted (which for a RB was extremely high - which is really the only thing that Dallas could have dictated in this situation).  Even with that predetermined contract, Zeke right now (3 years later) is still the 10th highest paid player at his position, and is the 9th highest salary cap number on the Cowboys (and is scheduled to be the 6th highest salary cap number on that team next year, and 3rd highest guaranteed amount, when he's still under contract). 

Zeke's salary (and cap hit) this year is roughly twice was Witten's is, so I have no idea where you're trying to go with that line of thinking. 

 
Payne said:
I don't think what Jerry said was smart at all. It was disrespectful and it certainly didn't help the situation. I think Zeke deserves more money and should get it. 

Dallas isn't going anywhere without him. 
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Deserving more money and being  the highest paid in the league are 2 different things

 
Deamon said:
Anyways back to Zeke.

It's interesting how far he is slipping right now.  Just did a slow draft that started today and he went 1.11.  Another one he went 1.04.  1.07 in a third.  I always thought the Gordon situation was much worse than his but not looking good right now.  Going to need to get Pollard before those owners jump on him.
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I got him in the 3rd round at 3.07 in a superflex draft, with keepers being some of the first two rounds.

 
modogg said:
so weird seeing a fanbase happy their most talented player isn't out there playing, and sitting back encouraging the creepy old pervert owner who has been gifted loads of money
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What do you mean by he has been gifted loads of money?  

 
Edgar said:
Don’t forget to breathe, son.

When your most important player (Zeke), gets paid a nickel more than your 53rd most important player (Witten), don’t be flabbergasted when the best player wants more. Write that down, son. 
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Your efforts to get personal here are a little creepy.

Zeke's prorated pay (matching his cap hit) is more than twice Witten's.  This is the part where I informed/reminded you of the bonus he received upon signing the contract.

You are simply continuing to push an ill informed opinion/position.  At this point, willfully ill informed.

 
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Lost in @Edgar's passive aggressive posting is that I agree that Zeke is in an unfair position.

Unfortunately "fair" really has nothing to do with it.  And he wan't complaining about "fair" a couple years ago when he took the $16M bonus and signed the $25M guaranteed contract.

 
matuski said:
Lost in @Edgar's passive aggressive posting is that I agree that Zeke is in an unfair position.

Unfortunately "fair" really has nothing to do with it.  And he wan't complaining about "fair" a couple years ago when he took the $16M bonus and signed the $25M guaranteed contract.
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Does anybody complain when they sign their slotted draft contract? Of course not.

Next year we could see this predicament with some combo of Kamara/McCaffrey/Mixon and two years from now, Saquon/Chubb.

 
Edgar said:
Does anybody complain when they sign their slotted draft contract? Of course not.

Next year we could see this predicament with some combo of Kamara/McCaffrey/Mixon and two years from now, Saquon/Chubb.
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These are the contracts they agreed to, not just individually, but as a players union.  Trying to characterize the owners/NFL doing exactly what the player and players agreed to as anything other than such is disingenuous.

This "predicament" is a function of the business agreement they made when they signed up to play for the NFL.  

I believe they get a chance to negotiate again soon.  It is business.

 
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matuski said:
These are the contracts they agreed to, not just individually, but as a players union.  Trying to characterize the owners/NFL doing exactly what the player and players agreed to as anything other than such is disingenuous.

This "predicament" is a function of the business agreement they made when they signed up to play for the NFL.  

I believe they get a chance to negotiate again soon.  It is business.
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I’m not being disingenuous. I’m pointing out that nobody complains about their assigned draft slot pay, so your “he wasn’t complaining when he signed his rookie deal” argument doesn’t hold water. 

 
Unfortunately for the players, they play a position that is currently not a priority in today's NFL. QBs, DEs, and WRs get the top money. Just the way of the NFL. RBs are replaceable.

 
Edgar said:
I’m not being disingenuous. I’m pointing out that nobody complains about their assigned draft slot pay, so your “he wasn’t complaining when he signed his rookie deal” argument doesn’t hold water. 
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Actually a lot of players complain about their contracts when they achieve greatness. Running back holdouts seem to get more press than OL, DB or other positions. 

Here’s the thing about rookie contracts - they’re super team friendly. And NFL players - and running backs especially, have a short shelf life. And with nothing guaranteed, they are probably smart to want to get paid now in case they get hurt later.

NFL owners are billionaires, so I don’t blame players for wanting to be paid when they’re earning their team billions for on-field performance, television contracts, jersey sales, etc. 

So I understand a player like Elliott coming in, performing incredibly & wanting to renegotiate if they’re an integral part of what the team does, yet dramatically underpaid compared to their peers. 

People who sign contracts outside the NFL occasionally renegotiate them too. It is business, as you say. 

 
Amused to Death said:
Unfortunately for the players, they play a position that is currently not a priority in today's NFL. QBs, DEs, and WRs get the top money. Just the way of the NFL. RBs are replaceable.
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This is true,  to a degree. The elite running backs are a little more rare than you imply.

Elliott is arguably the best RB in the NFL right now. If the Cowboys believe he’s a JAG benefitting from a great OL, then sure - they can throw some combination of mediocre talent on the field & see how that works for them. They’ll probably save a ton of $ doing it. 

But something tells me they know what they have in Elliott & will eventually get something done. Because the VORP is strong enough to equal wins, and make no mistake, Jerry Jones wants to win above everything else.

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
This is true,  to a degree. The elite running backs are a little more rare than you imply.

Elliott is arguably the best RB in the NFL right now. If the Cowboys believe he’s a JAG benefitting from a great OL, then sure - they can throw some combination of mediocre talent on the field & see how that works for them. They’ll probably save a ton of $ doing it. 

But something tells me they know what they have in Elliott & will eventually get something done. Because the VORP is strong enough to equal wins, and make no mistake, Jerry Jones wants to win above everything else.
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No one believes Elliott is a JAG. Yes, he's a generational talent. Unfortunately its at a position team salary cap structures don't prioritize. There isn't a single RB among the top 25 highest paid players going into 2019.

 
Amused to Death said:
No one believes Elliott is a JAG. Yes, he's a generational talent. Unfortunately its at a position team salary cap structures don't prioritize. There isn't a single RB among the top 25 highest paid players going into 2019.
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That doesn’t mean the cowboys won’t pay him. 

I’d be shocked if he’s out more than 2 games, if any. 

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
This is true,  to a degree. The elite running backs are a little more rare than you imply.

Elliott is arguably the best RB in the NFL right now. If the Cowboys believe he’s a JAG benefitting from a great OL, then sure - they can throw some combination of mediocre talent on the field & see how that works for them. They’ll probably save a ton of $ doing it. 

But something tells me they know what they have in Elliott & will eventually get something done. Because the VORP is strong enough to equal wins, and make no mistake, Jerry Jones wants to win above everything else.
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Elliott isn’t a JAG, but I can’t see the case for him as the best rb in the league. He’s been in a perfect situation his entire career. He’s also only above average in the passing game.  

 
travdogg said:
Elliott isn’t a JAG, but I can’t see the case for him as the best rb in the league. He’s been in a perfect situation his entire career. He’s also only above average in the passing game.  
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I’ve watched him play. He’s incredibly talented. Speed/power combo, with great vision & fluid hips. He’s got moves to make defenders miss in the open field & nose for the end zone. Excels in short yardage. He is above average in the passing game, yes - you imply that’s a negative, which is preposterous. It is in fact yet another tool in his skill set to acknowledge since most RBs tend to be below average unless that’s specifically their role (ala James White)

i have watched a lot of football over my 49 years (today) - and Elliott is arguably the best in the game right now. Easily top 3, and while that could be debated, that he’s in the top 3 validates my statement.

 
travdogg said:
Maybe they win one fewer game without Elliott, but they didn’t miss him much in 2017, and pollard looks better than anyone they had then, plus they had a less talented team overall. 
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You said: "Pollard is likely only a small drop off." Elliot put up 2,001 yards and 9 TDs last season - Pollard wouldn't sniff 75% of that even if he looks good against vanilla preseason defenses.

As far as winning "one fewer game", I have serious doubts about that since their offense flows through Zeke but I guess it's easy to say it since it couldn't ever be proven right or wrong. They went 3-3 without Elliot (2 of the wins came against the 7-9 Redskins and 3-13 Giants) and 6-4 with him in 2017.

You could be right as far as their record but Zeke surely makes things easier for them and to say there would be little drop off with Pollard is taking the "RBs are devalued" thing to hyperbolic levels. 

 
Dr. Octopus said:
You could be right as far as their record but Zeke surely makes things easier for them and to say there would be little drop off with Pollard is taking the "RBs are devalued" thing to hyperbolic levels. 
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Zeke is absolutely a superior player, but the Cowboys went 3-4 to start the 2018 season and 7-2 after they traded for Cooper. Cooper is also looking for a payday and they don't have a franchise QB under a long-term contract.

 
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Dr. Octopus said:
You said: "Pollard is likely only a small drop off." Elliot put up 2,001 yards and 9 TDs last season - Pollard wouldn't sniff 75% of that even if he looks good against vanilla preseason defenses.

As far as winning "one fewer game", I have serious doubts about that since their offense flows through Zeke but I guess it's easy to say it since it couldn't ever be proven right or wrong. They went 3-3 without Elliot (2 of the wins came against the 7-9 Redskins and 3-13 Giants) and 6-4 with him in 2017.

You could be right as far as their record but Zeke surely makes things easier for them and to say there would be little drop off with Pollard is taking the "RBs are devalued" thing to hyperbolic levels. 
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Specifically Pollard looked good against preseason 2nd stringers, AKA “future insurance salesmen”. 

i just read that Elliott has averaged 2000+/13

Pollard + anyone else sharing carries won’t sniff that, I agree. 

 
I’m not saying that there isn’t a drop off from Zeke to pollard, but it’s not as big win/loss wise, to the drop from dak to rush, or cooper to Noah brown, or Byron Jones to whomever. 

 
travdogg said:
I’m not saying that there isn’t a drop off from Zeke to pollard, but it’s not as big win/loss wise, to the drop from dak to rush, or cooper to Noah brown, or Byron Jones to whomever. 
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I’d estimate Zeke at +2 wins over replacement player over the course of the season. 

He’s averaged 2000+/13, & much of that against quality defenses. 

You can’t easily replace that production.  And in a game where every win is critical, 1-2 wins could mean missing the playoffs. 

 
I'm taking him at the end of the first if he is there come my big draft this weekend.  I'll roll the dice he is back before their first game.

 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
I’d estimate Zeke at +2 wins over replacement player over the course of the season. 

He’s averaged 2000+/13, & much of that against quality defenses. 

You can’t easily replace that production.  And in a game where every win is critical, 1-2 wins could mean missing the playoffs. 
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He is there most important player IMO.   Not buying Dak and Cooper are the come first $ guys, especially Dak.   I watched a running back up my way carry a team for years and Zeke is on that level.

 
In a league that devalues RBs, Zeke is the exception that proves the rule. All this talk of Tony Pollard being exceptional is just plain silly. If the Cowboys don't sign Zeke, they are screwed. Sorry, but Dak is good, but not good enough to elevate a team without a superior supporting cast. EVERYTHING Dallas does is predicated on the ability to run the football and control the flow of the game. The Cowboys are in a world of hurt if we play negative game script situations: Garrett cannot manage the clock and Dak turns the ball over too much. 

JJ knows this and will pay him. He's the most important cog in the offensive machinery. 

 
dahabi said:
So important players are only on championship winning teams?
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No, I'm pointing towards the pay scale in today's NFL and how it places a low priority on high priced RBs. Yes, the Vikings had AP and I really don't know what % of the cap he accounted for, but they didn't win a championship with him. So pointing at AP isn't a reason to pay Zeke.

 
Ack88 said:
In a league that devalues RBs, Zeke is the exception that proves the rule. All this talk of Tony Pollard being exceptional is just plain silly. If the Cowboys don't sign Zeke, they are screwed. Sorry, but Dak is good, but not good enough to elevate a team without a superior supporting cast. EVERYTHING Dallas does is predicated on the ability to run the football and control the flow of the game. The Cowboys are in a world of hurt if we play negative game script situations: Garrett cannot manage the clock and Dak turns the ball over too much. 

JJ knows this and will pay him. He's the most important cog in the offensive machinery. 
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And when Dak and Cooper leave, they become the Giants.

 
mozzy84 said:
He is there most important player IMO.   Not buying Dak and Cooper are the come first $ guys, especially Dak.   I watched a running back up my way carry a team for years and Zeke is on that level.
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He’s definitely the engine that makes that team go. Dak / AC are better for his presence. 

 
Amused to Death said:
And they won how many championships during that time?
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Hello, straw man/false dilemma.

Because I suppose nothing else impacts winning or losing. It’s not a team sport & their competition wasn't also trying to win. 🙄

this discussion had been of decent quality until this response. Be better. 👍🏼

 
Ack88 said:
I think Cooper is the guy that they let walk.

Think they eventually (overpay) Dak.
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Very possible. But like I pointed out - they didn't start winning last year until they traded for Cooper. Zeke played all 16 games.

I hope they let him walk and pay Zeke though. Its just against the grain of today's NFL.

 
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