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Physics and astronomy thread (1 Viewer)

Plenty of water on the moon

The Moon Loses Water When Meteoroids Smack the Lunar Surface

The researchers suggested that meteoroid impacts kicked up these puffs of water from the moon, and said that four of these puffs were apparently caused by previously undetected meteoroid streams.

"One would think we know all of the meteoroid streams that are out there, but apparently we don't," Benna said.

By analyzing the amount of water released by meteoroid streams of different sizes, the scientists estimated that the uppermost 3.15 inches (8 centimeters) of lunar soil is dehydrated — any less, and smaller meteoroids would have excavated more water. Below this desiccated layer, the researchers suggest, water comprises up to about 0.05% of the weight of the rock up to at least 10 feet (3 meters) deep.

"With our measurements, we could see exactly the water extracted from the moon in a very dynamic way by micrometeroid impacts, and by analyzing the data, see how much water was stored in the lunar reservoir and where it was going," Benna said.

The researchers estimated that meteoroid impacts cause the moon to lose as much as 220 tons (200 metric tons) of water annually. To sustain this amount of loss over time, they suggested that this water either was present when the moon formed, about 4.5 billion years ago, or was delivered by cosmic impacts from water-laden rocks soon after the moon was born.

The lunar samples from the Apollo missions may have appeared devoid of water because the water on those rocks was likely not incorporated into the rocks themselves, but only weakly coated them. As such, any water on the rocks was likely fragile and difficult to hold onto during the return trips, Benna said.
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This could be a game changer, could it not?

 
The good folks from the XENON Collaboration project have witnessed perhaps the rarest event ever recorded.   Their device designed to detect dark matter interactions with xenon has recorded evidence of a xenon proton converting into a neutron.  No big deal, right?  This happens all the time in nuclear decay processes.  Well, not so much for the xenon-124 isotope.   The half-life of this isotope is on the order of 10^22 years!  This is the first ever direct observation of such an occurrence. Although dark matter is the true white whale of this project, this is a noteworthy achievement in its own right and demonstrates the levels of sensitivity of their equipment.

https://phys.org/news/2019-04-dark-detector-rarest-event.html?fbclid=IwAR3hCQczt4hssZZnrWZc6q4yCjnHGfF7XZ3dHua_a_vnUjvcc9K4wApxFoQ

 
matttyl said:
You know, I had read that distance before and (think) I understand what it means in terms of distance from us.  But it just hit me that it also means that what we "saw" and thus what created the image to be....is what it looked like 55 million years ago.  We're talking about nearly the time of the dinosaurs.  It could have gone "boom" since then, and we still wouldn't know it.
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So let's say this black hole has gotten bigger over the last 55 million years, and has been swallowing up the universe since that time.  Given that light moves faster than the black hole swallowing universes, how much warning do we get before we know earth will be gone?  I'll go over/under at 100,000 years.

 
Buttonhook said:
So let's say this black hole has gotten bigger over the last 55 million years, and has been swallowing up the universe since that time.  Given that light moves faster than the black hole swallowing universes, how much warning do we get before we know earth will be gone?  I'll go over/under at 100,000 years.
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How distant is the nearest star in the direction of the black hole? When that whole part of the night sky is black we should know.

ETA for the slow people in the back. I'll take the over

 
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Galileo said:
And also insane that we can image them from such a ridiculous distance away.  Hubble's career has been amazing.
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:goodposting: especially considering the inauspicious start.  really hoping the JWST is a success.

 
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Galileo said:
Are you ready?  Alright, I guess you don't need to do much, but the revised International System of Units officially takes effect next week!!  All fundamental units of measure will be defined in terms of constants of nature.  
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Hmmm...🤔

The mole, symbol mol, is the SI unit of amount of substance. One mole contains exactly 6.022 140 76 × 1023 elementary entities. This number is the fixed numerical value of the Avogadro constant, NA, when expressed in the unit mol–1 and is called the Avogadro number.
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What's avocados gotta do with moles?

Can ya catch 'em that way?

My back lawn is overrun with at least 6.022 140 76 × 1023  F'n moles! ☹️

 
Maybe no 9th planet after all?  Astronomers have been looking for a large, distant 9th planet that would explain some orbital oddities of a handful of trans Neptunian objects.  A new computer model and calculations suggest that the observed orbital effects could be accounted for by the cumulative gravitational influence of a disk of smaller objects out beyond Neptune's orbit rather than a single large planetary object.  This is, of course, a model, but it is perhaps simpler than the 9th planet hypothesis.  For now, the search goes on...

 
Galileo said:
Maybe no 9th planet after all?  Astronomers have been looking for a large, distant 9th planet that would explain some orbital oddities of a handful of trans Neptunian objects.  A new computer model and calculations suggest that the observed orbital effects could be accounted for by the cumulative gravitational influence of a disk of smaller objects out beyond Neptune's orbit rather than a single large planetary object.  This is, of course, a model, but it is perhaps simpler than the 9th planet hypothesis.  For now, the search goes on...
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Of course there's a ninth planet.  It's called Pluto.  Just because some people got in a room and made up some strange standards to exclude it doesn't mean crap.  If both Jupiter and Mercury can be planets, yet have almost zero in common, then Pluto is a planet too.  

 
TheIronSheik said:
Of course there's a ninth planet.  It's called Pluto.  Just because some people got in a room and made up some strange standards to exclude it doesn't mean crap.  If both Jupiter and Mercury can be planets, yet have almost zero in common, then Pluto is a planet too.  
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dwarf planet, like Ceres, Makemake and Eris

 
joffer said:
are the other three planets?
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Yes.  I have no issue with having 500 planets in our solar system.  It's just a word.  And I'm OK with calling the first nine the "main planets" and anything found going forward that's small just a normal planet.  

I think going back and editing Pluto's status was idiotic.  It would be like saying that starting today, only rocky planets are true planets.  The gas giants are no longer planets because they are now called Big Gas Planets.  So now our solar system only has 4 planets.  

 
TheIronSheik said:
Yes.  I have no issue with having 500 planets in our solar system.  It's just a word.  And I'm OK with calling the first nine the "main planets" and anything found going forward that's small just a normal planet.  

I think going back and editing Pluto's status was idiotic.  It would be like saying that starting today, only rocky planets are true planets.  The gas giants are no longer planets because they are now called Big Gas Planets.  So now our solar system only has 4 planets.  
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seems like you have to draw the line somewhere if the word is to have any meaning.  rocky planets form in close, gas giants further out.  if everything is a planet than there's a heck of a lot more than 500 given the asteroid belt alone.  seems like the correct distinction to me given what we know now vs what we knew when we discovered Pluto.

 
TheIronSheik said:
Of course there's a ninth planet.  It's called Pluto.  Just because some people got in a room and made up some strange standards to exclude it doesn't mean crap.  If both Jupiter and Mercury can be planets, yet have almost zero in common, then Pluto is a planet too.  
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Just out of curiosity, how would you define "planet"? 

And assuming Pluto fits your description, then shouldn't you be advocating for other objects to be classified as planets as well...Eris? Haumea? Sedna? Makemake? Ceres?

ETA...I guess I should have continued reading the thread before responding.

 
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TheIronSheik said:
Yes.  I have no issue with having 500 planets in our solar system.  It's just a word.  And I'm OK with calling the first nine the "main planets" and anything found going forward that's small just a normal planet.  

I think going back and editing Pluto's status was idiotic.  It would be like saying that starting today, only rocky planets are true planets.  The gas giants are no longer planets because they are now called Big Gas Planets.  So now our solar system only has 4 planets.  
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Eris is bigger than Pluto, and Ceres was discovered 130 years before Pluto.  Are those "main planets"?

 
Galileo said:
Eris is bigger than Pluto, and Ceres was discovered 130 years before Pluto.  Are those "main planets"?
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Sure.  Why not?  

I subscribe to the Star Trek rule.  If the Enterprise were to see one of these objects in their window, would Spock say "We're approaching a planet"?  If yes, it's a planet.  If the only argument is "Well, then we'd have too many planets", that's a ridiculous argument.  I mean 50 states is a lot.  Maybe we should just have 8 states and then 42 dwarf states.  Also, probably only 5 US Presidents.  And 40 goblin Presidents.  

 
TheIronSheik said:
Sure.  Why not?  

I subscribe to the Star Trek rule.  If the Enterprise were to see one of these objects in their window, would Spock say "We're approaching a planet"?  If yes, it's a planet.  If the only argument is "Well, then we'd have too many planets", that's a ridiculous argument.  I mean 50 states is a lot.  Maybe we should just have 8 states and then 42 dwarf states.  Also, probably only 5 US Presidents.  And 40 goblin Presidents.  
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Well, why introduce the term "main planet" at all?  It is just another designation.  For the record, I don't necessarily disagree with you.  The definition of planet (like most other definitions) is a bit arbitrary.  Nothing wrong with arbitrary if it is agreed upon and promotes communication.  The definition is actually a bit silly and definitely leaves a grey area.  In fact, by strict application of the definition, some would rule out Earth as a planet.  But where does one draw the line?  Is every chunk of debris orbiting the sun a planet then?  Does "not a star" = "planet" in your scheme?

 
Galileo said:
Well, why introduce the term "main planet" at all?  It is just another designation.  For the record, I don't necessarily disagree with you.  The definition of planet (like most other definitions) is a bit arbitrary.  Nothing wrong with arbitrary if it is agreed upon and promotes communication.  The definition is actually a bit silly and definitely leaves a grey area.  In fact, by strict application of the definition, some would rule out Earth as a planet.  But where does one draw the line?  Is every chunk of debris orbiting the sun a planet then?  Does "not a star" = "planet" in your scheme?
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I get what you're saying and I pretty much agree.  I was asked to create a planet naming system on the spot so it might have some loose ends.  :lol:

My main point was that I think it's dumb to go back and remove a title from something.  I don't like that.  Because when you do that, it opens a whole new can of worms.  So the whole reason I said "main planets" was because I was grandfathering them into any new classification going forward.  In 200 years, when we discover that gas giants are actually space station power plants made by an alien race, Jupiter will still be called a planet.  But any new power plant can be called just that.  

Don't forget to subscribe to my YouTube channel to hear more crazy ramblings of why things should be called certain things.  Updated every Tuesday morning.

 
TheIronSheik said:
I get what you're saying and I pretty much agree.  I was asked to create a planet naming system on the spot so it might have some loose ends.  :lol:

My main point was that I think it's dumb to go back and remove a title from something.  I don't like that.  Because when you do that, it opens a whole new can of worms.  So the whole reason I said "main planets" was because I was grandfathering them into any new classification going forward.  In 200 years, when we discover that gas giants are actually space station power plants made by an alien race, Jupiter will still be called a planet.  But any new power plant can be called just that.  

Don't forget to subscribe to my YouTube channel to hear more crazy ramblings of why things should be called certain things.  Updated every Tuesday morning.
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Incidentally, Ceres was discovered in 1801 and was originally classified as a planet for several decades.  It was busted down to asteroid status for a while, but now shares a place with Pluto designated as a dwarf planet.

 
I'd rather they eliminate Pluto than add other Kuiper belt objects to the list of planets.  It's like calling every island a continent.

Less is more!

 
an article about 10 upcoming space missions to look forward to (some more upcoming than others).

10 future space missions to look forward to

The future of space travel is looking good, and there are plenty more space missions to get excited about in the near and distant future.

By Alexander McNamara

21st May, 2019 at 21:00

Our unquenchable thirst for space exploration and pushing the boundaries of science will see us going deeper into our Solar System and beyond for as long as humanity exists.

Here are some of the ambitious future space missions that will help us understand the very fabric of the Universe, deliver people and resources to and from Earth, and inspire the next generation of space scientists:

James Webb Space Telescope (JWST)

James Webb Space Telescope: Worth the Wait (YouTube/James Webb Space Telescope (JWST)
Operator: NASA, ESA & CSA

Launch: March 2021

Mission objectives: The telescope’s four infrared instruments will search for the first galaxies formed after the Big Bang, determine how galaxies evolved, observe the formation of stars from the first stages, measure the physical and chemical properties of planetary systems, including our own Solar System, and investigate the potential for life in those systems.

What to expect: Like the Hubble Space Telescope before it, we can expect to see some magnificent images from the JWST, but at nearly seven times larger we’ll be able to see deeper into our Universe and closer at the celestial bodies in our own Solar System.

Unlike Hubble, which measures visible, near-ultraviolet and near-infrared light, JWST focuses on the mid- to long-infrared spectrum, which means it will be better able to penetrate dust and clouds to study dimmer, cooler objects.

Operating at around -230°C means the telescope’s own infrared emissions won’t affect the signal received from the target, and by orbiting around the Lagrange point 2 it will travel around the Sun at the same speed as Earth, providing a stable environment for observations.

Laser Interferometer Space Antenna (LISA)

Operator: ESA

Launch: 2034

Mission objectives: Following the successful test of the LISA Pathfinder mission, LISA aims to detect and measure gravitational waves produced by compact binary systems and mergers of supermassive black holes.

What to expect: Gravitational waves are the ripples in spacetime that Albert Einstein predicted in his theory of general relativity.

It took nearly 100 years for them to be confirmed by the LIGO detector here on Earth, but the LISA mission will use three satellites precisely measured around 2.5 million km apart that will be able to detect much fainter gravitational waves, with signals smaller than 20 picometres (tinier than an atom) over a million kilometres.

From this we will be able to determine more about the nature and location of black holes, as well rigorously testing Einstein’s theories.

Breakthrough Starshot

Operator: Breakthrough Initiatives

Launch: Around 2036

Mission objectives: To send spacecraft to Alpha Centauri, our neighbouring star system, in a journey lasting only 20 years.

What to expect: Announced in 2016, the mission sounds like the stuff of pure sci-fi.

Breakthrough Initiatives are a group including the likes of the late Stephen Hawking and Mark Zuckerberg, and will launch 1,000 tiny light sail spacecraft called StarChips on a 4.37 light year-journey to Alpha Centauri at 15-20 per cent of the speed of light using lasers on Earth.

The mission hopes to test the possibility of ultra-fast space travel and will flyby Proxima Centauri b, an exoplanet in the habitable zone of the star system.

ExoMars 2020

Operator: ESA & Roscosmos

Launch: 2020

Mission objectives: To discover if life ever existed on Mars

What to expect: The first stage of the mission, the Trace Gas Orbiter has already arrived in orbit around the Red Planet and is on the hunt for methane and other gases, which suggest the presence of organic compounds, in the atmosphere.

Stage 2 is a rover that will land in 2020 and drill two metres under the Martian surface, before analysing samples in an on-board lab in search for organic compounds.

It is hoped that at this depth any well-preserved organic matter will be safe from the harsh radiation at the planet’s surface due to the thin atmosphere.

Prospector 1

Prospecting for Asteroid Resources – Deep Space Industries (YouTube/DeepSpaceIndustries)

Operator: Deep Space Industries (DSi)

Launch: Sometime in the 2020s

Mission objectives: To commercially mine asteroids

What to expect: Although still far from being confirmed, DSi plans to send Prospector 1 to a nearby asteroid and assess its suitability for mining precious materials. It will then land on the asteroid, creating humanity’s first commercial base on another celestial body.

This is all in preparation for a much grander mission, which is to build a new type of spacecraft that will mine the asteroid on an industrial scale, and then bring the harvest back into Earth’s orbit.

The company hopes that by being a commercial rather than government project, they are able to reduce the total time from start to completion of the mission.

JUpiter ICy moons Explorer (JUICE)

JUICE – Exploring Jupiter’s icy Moons (YouTube/Airbus Defence and Space)

Operator: ESA

Launch: 2022

Mission objectives: To collect detailed observations of Jupiter and three of its largest moons, Ganymede, Callisto and Europa.

What to expect: When the explorer arrives in the Jovian system in 2030, its main focus is to understand the conditions that might have led to habitable environments on Jupiter’s satellites, particularly on Ganymede.

JUICE will also provide the first subsurface sounding of Enceledus, which measures the minimal thickness of the most recently active regions.

OSIRIS-REx

NASA’s OSIRIS-REx Asteroid Sample Return Mission (YouTube/NASA Goddard) 

Operator: NASA

Launched: 8 September 2016

Expected return: September 2023

Mission objectives: To return a sample of rock to Earth from the asteroid Bennu.

What to expect: The ORISIS-REx mission arrived at Bennu in December 2018, and is currently spending a year analysing the asteroid for suitable sample sites. Once found, a robotic arm will spend only five seconds collecting samples before it begins its two and a half year journey back to Earth.

Scientists hope that the mission will be able to help us understand the early Solar System and the hazards and resources of near-Earth objects. They will also study the Yarkovsky effect, where the asteroid absorbs sunlight and changes its direction as it loses this energy through heat, potentially putting it on collision course with Earth.

Square Kilometer Array

Discovering the unknown: the world’s largest radio telescope (YouTube/Square Kilometre Array)

Operator: A global project with 12 member countries, headquartered in Jodrell Bank, UK

Launch: 2020

Mission objectives: To create the world’s most sensitive radio telescope, addressing a wide range of cosmic questions.

What to expect: The enormous array of dishes across the deserts of South Africa and Australia will be 50 times more sensitive than the Hubble Space Telescope, which will help test the theory of relativity by Albert Einstein, measure the effect hypothetically caused by dark energy, and discover more about the large-scale structure of the cosmos.

But this is only the first phase, which is only 10 per cent of the total size. Phase 2 will be sensitive enough for us to be able to see as far back as 300,000 years after the Big Bang and perhaps pick up faint radio signals from any potential extra-terrestrial civilisation.

The modern Space Race

Opening Space (YouTube/Blue Origin)

Operator: Blue Origin, SpaceX and Virgin Galactic, among others

Launch: Ongoing

Mission objectives: To provide reusable space vehicles able to reliably transport people and resources to and from space.

What to expect: The modern Space Race is already going at warp speed at the moment, and barely a month goes by without SpaceX announcing the successful landing of a reusable rocket or Virgin Galactic creeping ever closer to delivering tourists into space.

The big issue is cost, as currently only eight tourists have visited space, costing between $20-40m a time, but this could be massively reduced with reusable vehicles and more efficient transport, with Virgin Galactic offering tickets for a comparatively paltry $250k.

Once this reusable technology has been perfected, it opens the way to launching manned crews to the Moon or Mars, and beyond.

Parker Solar Probe

Operator: NASA

Launched: 12 August 2018

Closest approach to the Sun: 2025

Mission objectives: To provide new data on the Sun to more accurately measure and forecast the solar wind and the effect space-weather will have for life on Earth.

Try 3 issues from just $9.95

Promoted by Science Focus

What to expect: The Parker Solar Probe (formerly Solar Probe Plus) is built to with withstand the intense 1,377°C heat from the Sun as it “touches” it from within six million kilometres, seven times closer than any spacecraft before it.

Once there, it will help us answer why the Sun’s corona is hotter than the surface of the Sun and why we have solar wind. It will also travel at 200km/s, making it the fastest man-made object ever made.
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El Floppo said:
where do I find a subscription for this star trek planet naming scene?
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There was an astronomer on one of those Science Channel shows who used this example.  He was basically saying we're making this hard for no reason and we're caught up on a name and trying to make space objects all fit into it.  When in reality if it looks like a planet when you approach it, it's a planet. :shrug:

 
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