Patriots being investigated after Colts game (3 Viewers)

Old Smiley said:

From the Dowd piece:

By telling Brady they didn't "want to take access" to his cellphone, the league effectively set Brady up for an ambush when he was unable to produce it upon appeal.

The phone was a huge bummer for me. Super WTF. But think about that above for a minute. They told him they didn't want it!

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Bayhawks said:

Old Smiley said:

From the Dowd piece:

By telling Brady they didn't "want to take access" to his cellphone, the league effectively set Brady up for an ambush when he was unable to produce it upon appeal.

The phone was a huge bummer for me. Super WTF. But think about that above for a minute. They told him they didn't want it!

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You're right; destroying it so they couldn't get the into they DID want didn't look suspicious AT ALL.

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Sabertooth said:

Meh, they will always have an asterisk anywhere besides Boston. And they should.

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Jercules said:

I don't think they deflated those footballs for the AFCCG.

That's why Brady isn't perjuring himself by constantly proclaiming his and others' innocence.

The only concrete proof of shenanigans is the text messages, which pertain to past instances. For whatever reason, they didn't do in in January, so when he's asked "did you instruct or induce the illegal deflation of footballs for the AFCCG, he can legitimately say no (and even text Jastremski, some time after the game: "You did nothing wrong").

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Old Smiley said:

Bayhawks said:

Old Smiley said:

From the Dowd piece:

By telling Brady they didn't "want to take access" to his cellphone, the league effectively set Brady up for an ambush when he was unable to produce it upon appeal.

The phone was a huge bummer for me. Super WTF. But think about that above for a minute. They told him they didn't want it!

Click to expand...

You're right; destroying it so they couldn't get the into they DID want didn't look suspicious AT ALL.

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No. The phone looked awful. Read back in the thread. I was dumbfounded. So so stupid. But again, think about it. They didn't want the phone. They told him that. After that it's just getting a new phone. And as far as the iPhone 6 being out for a while, you know there are actually a number of things I don't like about Brady's persona -- not waiting in line at the Apple store is not one of them.

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Bayhawks said:

Brady made it clear he gets his phones free; he didn't have to wait in the Apple store.

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Bayhawks said:

Old Smiley said:

Bayhawks said:

Old Smiley said:

From the Dowd piece:

By telling Brady they didn't "want to take access" to his cellphone, the league effectively set Brady up for an ambush when he was unable to produce it upon appeal.

The phone was a huge bummer for me. Super WTF. But think about that above for a minute. They told him they didn't want it!

Click to expand...

You're right; destroying it so they couldn't get the into they DID want didn't look suspicious AT ALL.

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No. The phone looked awful. Read back in the thread. I was dumbfounded. So so stupid. But again, think about it. They didn't want the phone. They told him that. After that it's just getting a new phone. And as far as the iPhone 6 being out for a while, you know there are actually a number of things I don't like about Brady's persona -- not waiting in line at the Apple store is not one of them.

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Brady made it clear he gets his phones free; he didn't have to wait in the Apple store.If he always destroys his phones, why was his previous one intact.

He destroyed the phone so the NFL couldn't get the info they wanted.

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Run It Up said:

Get home late from work. Read some briefs from the case.

The NFL describes Brady's actions as "a scheme intended to vitiate the game officials' efforts to ensure fair competetion."

He went from generally aware that something might have happened, to being found guilty by Goodell of actively scheming to undermine the integrity of the game...

I mean, the league has to move the goal posts now because its becoming much more clear how slimey they've been in all this, but holy ####.

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dschuler said:

Bayhawks said:

Old Smiley said:

Bayhawks said:

Old Smiley said:

From the Dowd piece:

By telling Brady they didn't "want to take access" to his cellphone, the league effectively set Brady up for an ambush when he was unable to produce it upon appeal.

The phone was a huge bummer for me. Super WTF. But think about that above for a minute. They told him they didn't want it!

Click to expand...

You're right; destroying it so they couldn't get the into they DID want didn't look suspicious AT ALL.

Click to expand...

No. The phone looked awful. Read back in the thread. I was dumbfounded. So so stupid. But again, think about it. They didn't want the phone. They told him that. After that it's just getting a new phone. And as far as the iPhone 6 being out for a while, you know there are actually a number of things I don't like about Brady's persona -- not waiting in line at the Apple store is not one of them.

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Brady made it clear he gets his phones free; he didn't have to wait in the Apple store.If he always destroys his phones, why was his previous one intact.

He destroyed the phone so the NFL couldn't get the info they wanted.

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Or so the public couldn't see him sexting his wife, or maybe some other road slut. Or maybe so the public doesn't get access to important phone numbers, private texts, nude pictures, bank account info, Internet passwords, etc...

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biju said:

Run It Up said:

Get home late from work. Read some briefs from the case.

The NFL describes Brady's actions as "a scheme intended to vitiate the game officials' efforts to ensure fair competetion."

He went from generally aware that something might have happened, to being found guilty by Goodell of actively scheming to undermine the integrity of the game...

I mean, the league has to move the goal posts now because its becoming much more clear how slimey they've been in all this, but holy ####.

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I could not be more in the camp of "does not give a ####" but I think the Patriots have done far more to try to move the target off them then the NFL has done. I suspect a large majority would agree with me.

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Run It Up said:

biju said:

Run It Up said:

Get home late from work. Read some briefs from the case.

The NFL describes Brady's actions as "a scheme intended to vitiate the game officials' efforts to ensure fair competetion."

He went from generally aware that something might have happened, to being found guilty by Goodell of actively scheming to undermine the integrity of the game...

I mean, the league has to move the goal posts now because its becoming much more clear how slimey they've been in all this, but holy ####.

Click to expand...

I could not be more in the camp of "does not give a ####" but I think the Patriots have done far more to try to move the target off them then the NFL has done. I suspect a large majority would agree with me.

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Wait what?

Im trying to understand how you could have possibly even misconstrued what the league and what the Pats are doing as something even in the same realm.

The league had to WORK to suspend Brady, with zero evidence of more probably than not, being generally aware of ball deflation. They have now changed their summation of Bradys role to an active scheme to undermine the integrity of the league.

All the Patriots are doing is defending themselves.

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Run It Up said:

biju said:

Run It Up said:

Get home late from work. Read some briefs from the case.

The NFL describes Brady's actions as "a scheme intended to vitiate the game officials' efforts to ensure fair competetion."

He went from generally aware that something might have happened, to being found guilty by Goodell of actively scheming to undermine the integrity of the game...

I mean, the league has to move the goal posts now because its becoming much more clear how slimey they've been in all this, but holy ####.

Click to expand...

I could not be more in the camp of "does not give a ####" but I think the Patriots have done far more to try to move the target off them then the NFL has done. I suspect a large majority would agree with me.

Click to expand...

Wait what?

Im trying to understand how you could have possibly even misconstrued what the league and what the Pats are doing as something even in the same realm.

The league had to WORK to suspend Brady, with zero evidence of more probably than not, being generally aware of ball deflation. They have now changed their summation of Bradys role to an active scheme to undermine the integrity of the league.

All the Patriots are doing is defending themselves.

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NE_REVIVAL said:

IvanKaramazov said:

wdcrob said:

"If it doesn't fit you must acquit."

That's pretty much where we are with Pats fans at this point -- hanging onto every possible legalistic technicality and ignoring the obvious, common-sense evidence that shows Brady and the ball boys did exactly what they're accused of.

Which, since it's not a court of law, is what Goodell is basing his punishment on. Whatever the NFL might say for PR purposes.

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Yeah, but the NFL has also done a poor job of handling this. They deserve some criticism for the early leaks, for mischaracterizing what Brady said about his conversations with Jastremski, and stuff like that.

None of that makes Brady any less guilty of course, but Goodell is going to look like an idiot if his bungling of the case ends up getting his suspension vacated.

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Ivan as previously documented you don't have any evidence that brady is guilty of anything. I can't stop you from repeating your "wishful thinking" opinion ad nauseam (your a Bills fan, who can blame u), but I can keep pointing out the fact that you don't have any "real" evidence" Brady is guilty of anything other than not turning over a personal cell phone (for damn good reason) he wasn't in any way obligated to.

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Dr. Octopus said:

NE_REVIVAL said:

IvanKaramazov said:

wdcrob said:

"If it doesn't fit you must acquit."

That's pretty much where we are with Pats fans at this point -- hanging onto every possible legalistic technicality and ignoring the obvious, common-sense evidence that shows Brady and the ball boys did exactly what they're accused of.

Which, since it's not a court of law, is what Goodell is basing his punishment on. Whatever the NFL might say for PR purposes.

Click to expand...

Yeah, but the NFL has also done a poor job of handling this. They deserve some criticism for the early leaks, for mischaracterizing what Brady said about his conversations with Jastremski, and stuff like that.

None of that makes Brady any less guilty of course, but Goodell is going to look like an idiot if his bungling of the case ends up getting his suspension vacated.

Click to expand...

Ivan as previously documented you don't have any evidence that brady is guilty of anything. I can't stop you from repeating your "wishful thinking" opinion ad nauseam (your a Bills fan, who can blame u), but I can keep pointing out the fact that you don't have any "real" evidence" Brady is guilty of anything other than not turning over a personal cell phone (for damn good reason) he wasn't in any way obligated to.

Click to expand...

What was the "real" evidence in the Aaron Hernandez murder trial?

Circumstantial evidence holds up under the "beyond a reasonable doubt" criminal standard, yet it's not enough for Pat fans in a league discipline matter.

I'll agree that the penalties levied far exceed the "crime" here, but anyone that doesn't think there was a "crime" is sticking their heads in the sand.

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Sabertooth said:

Meh, they will always have an asterisk anywhere besides Boston. And they should.

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mbuehner said:

If Mortensen wasnt such a hack he'd disclose the source that lied to him (cough, Kensil). If your source lies to you to manipulate you, you burn them. Of course that only applies if you care about your reputation for integrity.

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satch said:

Sabertooth said:

Meh, they will always have an asterisk anywhere besides Boston. And they should.

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Oh no, not an asterisk!!! You should know that Boston couldn't care less about your asterisk. In fact, we embrace it. To us it symbolizes extraordinary dominance and desperate excuses. The asterisk just adds more bling to the ring baby!

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satch said:

Sabertooth said:

Meh, they will always have an asterisk anywhere besides Boston. And they should.

Click to expand...

Oh no, not an asterisk!!! You should know that Boston couldn't care less about your asterisk. In fact, we embrace it. To us it symbolizes extraordinary dominance and desperate excuses. The asterisk just adds more bling to the ring baby!

Click to expand...

Sabertooth said:

satch said:

Sabertooth said:

Meh, they will always have an asterisk anywhere besides Boston. And they should.

Click to expand...

Oh no, not an asterisk!!! You should know that Boston couldn't care less about your asterisk. In fact, we embrace it. To us it symbolizes extraordinary dominance and desperate excuses. The asterisk just adds more bling to the ring baby!

Click to expand...

And yet, here you are. Dominance? Call me when you get to 13. You're almost a third of the way there.

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biju said:

Sabertooth said:

satch said:

Sabertooth said:

Meh, they will always have an asterisk anywhere besides Boston. And they should.

Click to expand...

Oh no, not an asterisk!!! You should know that Boston couldn't care less about your asterisk. In fact, we embrace it. To us it symbolizes extraordinary dominance and desperate excuses. The asterisk just adds more bling to the ring baby!

Click to expand...

And yet, here you are. Dominance? Call me when you get to 13. You're almost a third of the way there.

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You do know that one of those "13" was because they stopped playing regular football games and the Packers had the best record, right? There was nothing more than that.

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DaveL said:

biju said:

Sabertooth said:

satch said:

Sabertooth said:

Meh, they will always have an asterisk anywhere besides Boston. And they should.

Click to expand...

Oh no, not an asterisk!!! You should know that Boston couldn't care less about your asterisk. In fact, we embrace it. To us it symbolizes extraordinary dominance and desperate excuses. The asterisk just adds more bling to the ring baby!

Click to expand...

And yet, here you are. Dominance? Call me when you get to 13. You're almost a third of the way there.

Click to expand...

You do know that one of those "13" was because they stopped playing regular football games and the Packers had the best record, right? There was nothing more than that.

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So one of the packers 13 has an asterisk then

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dansav said:

From SI.com and el pres from barstool sports

1. While the NFLPA amplifies criticism of Goodell as inherently unfair, the NFL insists that it doesnt matter whether Ted Wells was independent. In its brief, the NFL correctly stresses that Article 46 of the collective bargaining agreement lacks any language that compels an independent investigation. Therefore, the NFL reasons, the league had no legal obligation to provide Brady with an independent investigation. The likely problem for the NFL in making this argument is that the NFL has consistently assured Brady, the NFLPA and the public of Wellss independence. Consider the NFLs statementon Jan. 23, 2015 announcing the hiring of Wells: Mr. Wells and his firm bring additional expertise and a valuable independent perspective. Also take a look at Goodells statement from May 6, 2015, when he praised Wells: I want to express my appreciation to Ted Wells and his colleagues for performing a thorough and independent investigation.

2. The NFL argues that Tom Brady is being punished for misconduct far worse than general awareness. In its brief filed Friday night, the NFL insists that in spite of the Wells Report finding that Brady was generally aware of an alleged ball deflation scheme, Goodell did not punish Brady for being generally aware. Instead, according to the NFL, Brady was punished for far worse misdeeds: Brady allegedly approved of, consented to, and provided inducements in support of . . . a scheme to tamper with the game balls and willfully obstructed the leagues Deflategate investigation. Given Bradys categorical denials while under oath to these accusations and the absence of tangible NFL evidence disproving Bradys denials, it is hard to understand how Goodell reached these conclusions.

El Pres barstool sports

"First of all I guess I should use the term bombshell loosely. As Ive said from the beginning only brain dead morons thought the Wells Report was an independent investigation. The real bombshell here is that Roger Goodell has finally been forced to admit in a court of law that he is a liar. That there was nothing independent about the Wells Report despite him claiming the opposite for months. Roger Goodell has finally been forced to admit that it was a witch hunt.

The other bombshell here is that Roger Goodell is saying he is punishing Brady for crimes far greater than general awareness. Think about that for a minute. So even though Ted Wells was paid 3 million dollars and spent almost 6 months to prove Brady was guilty he still couldnt do it. He didnt find 1 shred of evidence. Yet somehow Roger Goodell is openly admitting he is punishing Brady like they caught him putting the pins in the football himself during the huddle. Its insanity. Why even have the Wells Investigation in the first place? Brady was already declared guilty 1 second after this scandal broke and before the NFL even knew what the Ideal Gas Law meant.

So I guess the nuts and bolts of this court case is this. Roger Goodell clearly thinks he can do whatever he wants. He can lie, steal, frame, cheat etc. Hes done ALL of these things and more in this case. Thats not me being the voice of reason anymore. The NFL has admitted it. But Goodell still says the NFLPA gave him unilateral power to do whatever he wants and there is nothing anybody can do about it. Doesnt matter if he lied about the Wells Report. It doesnt matter that there is no proof Brady is guilty. IT DOESNT MATTER THE FOOTBALLS WERENT EVEN DEFLATED. Hes Fuher Goodell. He can suspend anybody for anything he wants whenever he feels like it. If he feels like kicking you out of the league because he doesnt like you he can do it."

Bottomline is other teams were sick of the Patriots winning so he decided to suspend Tom Brady for nothing. Just to make vanquished rivals feel better about their lives. There are no checks and balances in place to block this gross abuse of power. The NFL believes they are sovereign country that doesnt have to grant players basic constitutional rights like due process. Their entire case is that the NFLPA made a deal with the devil and forfeited the rights every American citizen enjoys. Thats essentially what this court case boils down to. Is it legal for Roger Goodell to act like Hitler?

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biju said:

Sabertooth said:

satch said:

Sabertooth said:

Meh, they will always have an asterisk anywhere besides Boston. And they should.

Click to expand...

Oh no, not an asterisk!!! You should know that Boston couldn't care less about your asterisk. In fact, we embrace it. To us it symbolizes extraordinary dominance and desperate excuses. The asterisk just adds more bling to the ring baby!

Click to expand...

And yet, here you are. Dominance? Call me when you get to 13. You're almost a third of the way there.

Click to expand...

You do know that one of those "13" was because they stopped playing regular football games and the Packers had the best record, right? There was nothing more than that.

Click to expand...

Sabertooth said:

biju said:

Sabertooth said:

satch said:

Sabertooth said:

Meh, they will always have an asterisk anywhere besides Boston. And they should.

Click to expand...

Oh no, not an asterisk!!! You should know that Boston couldn't care less about your asterisk. In fact, we embrace it. To us it symbolizes extraordinary dominance and desperate excuses. The asterisk just adds more bling to the ring baby!

Click to expand...

And yet, here you are. Dominance? Call me when you get to 13. You're almost a third of the way there.

Click to expand...

You do know that one of those "13" was because they stopped playing regular football games and the Packers had the best record, right? There was nothing more than that.

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Talk about dominance. When everyone else takes their ball and goes home, that's dominance.

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Sabertooth said:

biju said:

Sabertooth said:

satch said:

Sabertooth said:

Meh, they will always have an asterisk anywhere besides Boston. And they should.

Click to expand...

Oh no, not an asterisk!!! You should know that Boston couldn't care less about your asterisk. In fact, we embrace it. To us it symbolizes extraordinary dominance and desperate excuses. The asterisk just adds more bling to the ring baby!

Click to expand...

And yet, here you are. Dominance? Call me when you get to 13. You're almost a third of the way there.

Click to expand...

You do know that one of those "13" was because they stopped playing regular football games and the Packers had the best record, right? There was nothing more than that.

Click to expand...

Talk about dominance. When everyone else takes their ball, gets into their horse and buggy and goes home, that's dominance.

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biju said:

Sabertooth said:

biju said:

Sabertooth said:

satch said:

Sabertooth said:

Meh, they will always have an asterisk anywhere besides Boston. And they should.

Click to expand...

Oh no, not an asterisk!!! You should know that Boston couldn't care less about your asterisk. In fact, we embrace it. To us it symbolizes extraordinary dominance and desperate excuses. The asterisk just adds more bling to the ring baby!

Click to expand...

And yet, here you are. Dominance? Call me when you get to 13. You're almost a third of the way there.

Click to expand...

You do know that one of those "13" was because they stopped playing regular football games and the Packers had the best record, right? There was nothing more than that.

Click to expand...

Talk about dominance. When everyone else takes their ball and goes home, that's dominance.

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It might to Packer fans, but it feels more like that green "participation" ribbon to me. Did they even get one of those plastic trophies for that one?

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The Duff Man said:

So Pats fans are in favor of picking and choosing which laws/contract need to be upheld, and which ones we can disregard because they arent fair or....you know....one side has as much power as Hitler had!

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Dr. Octopus said:

NE_REVIVAL said:

IvanKaramazov said:

wdcrob said:

"If it doesn't fit you must acquit."

That's pretty much where we are with Pats fans at this point -- hanging onto every possible legalistic technicality and ignoring the obvious, common-sense evidence that shows Brady and the ball boys did exactly what they're accused of.

Which, since it's not a court of law, is what Goodell is basing his punishment on. Whatever the NFL might say for PR purposes.

Click to expand...

Yeah, but the NFL has also done a poor job of handling this. They deserve some criticism for the early leaks, for mischaracterizing what Brady said about his conversations with Jastremski, and stuff like that.

None of that makes Brady any less guilty of course, but Goodell is going to look like an idiot if his bungling of the case ends up getting his suspension vacated.

Click to expand...

Ivan as previously documented you don't have any evidence that brady is guilty of anything. I can't stop you from repeating your "wishful thinking" opinion ad nauseam (your a Bills fan, who can blame u), but I can keep pointing out the fact that you don't have any "real" evidence" Brady is guilty of anything other than not turning over a personal cell phone (for damn good reason) he wasn't in any way obligated to.

Click to expand...

What was the "real" evidence in the Aaron Hernandez murder trial?

Circumstantial evidence holds up under the "beyond a reasonable doubt" criminal standard, yet it's not enough for Pat fans in a league discipline matter.

I'll agree that the penalties levied far exceed the "crime" here, but anyone that doesn't think there was a "crime" is sticking their heads in the sand.

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dansav said:

Thats essentially what this court case boils down to. Is it legal for Roger Goodell to act like Hitler?

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Run It Up said:

Hitler comparisons are always weak, but its still despicable what Goodell has and is still doing.

The way the CBA is written literally anything that isn't explicitly stated Goodell just handwaves and does whatever he wants.

Ignores precedence. Manipulates testimony and completely fabricates information. Absolutely zero burden of proof, he chooses what arbitrary level of evidence he needs to pass judgement. Strong arms entire organizations and withholds information while actively leaking misinformation. Holds people accountable for policies that aren't applicable to them. The list goes on.

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Burl said:

Run It Up said:

Hitler comparisons are always weak, but its still despicable what Goodell has and is still doing.

The way the CBA is written literally anything that isn't explicitly stated Goodell just handwaves and does whatever he wants.

Ignores precedence. Manipulates testimony and completely fabricates information. Absolutely zero burden of proof, he chooses what arbitrary level of evidence he needs to pass judgement. Strong arms entire organizations and withholds information while actively leaking misinformation. Holds people accountable for policies that aren't applicable to them. The list goes on.

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In Goodell's defense none of this has any precedence set assuming it happened the way the NFL states. A CBA has no way of including all different variations of infractions that players can commit.

As an aside, everyone talks about how the players will "bargain" for taking Goodell's rights away the next time they look at the CBA. I highly doubt it even gets looked at unless the NFL decides to be very generous. This appeal process affects so few players that it isn't in their interest to change it. In order to change this, you have to give something up. What are they going to give up? Increased pay? Health insurance after retirement? Less hitting during preseason? These things affect every NFL player, there is no way they bargain some of that away. The NFL isn't giving this to the players unless they give something up. What do you think they are going to bargain for, something that affects 2000+ players or something that affects 4 a year?

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NE_REVIVAL said:

Dr. Octopus said:

NE_REVIVAL said:

IvanKaramazov said:

wdcrob said:

"If it doesn't fit you must acquit."

That's pretty much where we are with Pats fans at this point -- hanging onto every possible legalistic technicality and ignoring the obvious, common-sense evidence that shows Brady and the ball boys did exactly what they're accused of.

Which, since it's not a court of law, is what Goodell is basing his punishment on. Whatever the NFL might say for PR purposes.

Click to expand...

Yeah, but the NFL has also done a poor job of handling this. They deserve some criticism for the early leaks, for mischaracterizing what Brady said about his conversations with Jastremski, and stuff like that.

None of that makes Brady any less guilty of course, but Goodell is going to look like an idiot if his bungling of the case ends up getting his suspension vacated.

Click to expand...

Ivan as previously documented you don't have any evidence that brady is guilty of anything. I can't stop you from repeating your "wishful thinking" opinion ad nauseam (your a Bills fan, who can blame u), but I can keep pointing out the fact that you don't have any "real" evidence" Brady is guilty of anything other than not turning over a personal cell phone (for damn good reason) he wasn't in any way obligated to.

Click to expand...

What was the "real" evidence in the Aaron Hernandez murder trial?Circumstantial evidence holds up under the "beyond a reasonable doubt" criminal standard, yet it's not enough for Pat fans in a league discipline matter.

I'll agree that the penalties levied far exceed the "crime" here, but anyone that doesn't think there was a "crime" is sticking their heads in the sand.

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The evidence against AH was overwhelming and I believe it included his DNA so they really aren't comparable imo.

To be clear, I believe there is circumstantial evidence that wrong doing (crime if that's what u want to call it) may have occurred. I'm not arguing the evidence against the team and the punishment they got even though I feel the evidence was flimsy at best ant the punishment excessive.

I'm contesting the allegations against Brady and I just don't see any evidence that he orchestrated it or even knew the equip guys (allegedly) were breaking the rules. To those who say, well he must have known the ball was so obviously under pressure; I would ask if that's really the case then why didn't anyone else ever notice it until the buthurt Ravens and Rat Colts brought it up? The obvious answer imho is that illegal deflation either wasn't occurring or the lower psi wasn't discernable. Think about this, we (and the nfl) now know about the ideal gas law, how weather effects PSI and undoubtedly there have likely been hundreds if not thousands of games where the football was above or below the required ranges. Did anyone ever notice or do anything to correct it? No, and yet Brady must have known is the haters mantra and primary piece of "evidence" against him. Give me a break, its NFL Bread and Circus.

Listening to the FBG pre season watch list NE podcast and even Bloom admits that (rightly or wrongly) the other 31 teams have it out for NE and imo so much of it is driven on pure unadulterated jealousy and envy. So many are so eager to tarnish one of the greatest players who ever lived based on literally no evidence. Haters gonna hate, but c'mon people, to do this to Brady is a sham and a travesty.............

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NE_REVIVAL said:

Burl said:

Run It Up said:

Hitler comparisons are always weak, but its still despicable what Goodell has and is still doing.

The way the CBA is written literally anything that isn't explicitly stated Goodell just handwaves and does whatever he wants.

Ignores precedence. Manipulates testimony and completely fabricates information. Absolutely zero burden of proof, he chooses what arbitrary level of evidence he needs to pass judgement. Strong arms entire organizations and withholds information while actively leaking misinformation. Holds people accountable for policies that aren't applicable to them. The list goes on.

Click to expand...

In Goodell's defense none of this has any precedence set assuming it happened the way the NFL states. A CBA has no way of including all different variations of infractions that players can commit.As an aside, everyone talks about how the players will "bargain" for taking Goodell's rights away the next time they look at the CBA. I highly doubt it even gets looked at unless the NFL decides to be very generous. This appeal process affects so few players that it isn't in their interest to change it. In order to change this, you have to give something up. What are they going to give up? Increased pay? Health insurance after retirement? Less hitting during preseason? These things affect every NFL player, there is no way they bargain some of that away. The NFL isn't giving this to the players unless they give something up. What do you think they are going to bargain for, something that affects 2000+ players or something that affects 4 a year?

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I think you might be missing something here, and would respectfully like to offer a counter opinion.

Imo there is a strong possibility the NFLPA wins this case and if they do, the god like role of the commissioner will no longer be something that even needs to be bargained since the courts are going to over rule him and expose it for the circus it is. I admit that I typically side with the owners vs players in most matters, but this whole thing has been so over the top "are u out of ur fn mind" unfair to the player (brady) that I think it is a slam dunk the nfl gets slapped here and this will be the end of the goodell arbitrating appeals of goodell based witch hunts.

I'm not a lawyer and again I freely admit this may be nothing more than wishful thinking on my part, but I think the following is more probable than not

By any measure of fairness the nfl has been way out of line and the bitter owners who are so steadfastly demanding a pound of bradys flesh have given the nflpa the opening they needed to end the farce once and for all. I could be wrong (time will tell), but I think the nfl obviously loses and brady gets a fine and maybe a game for non cooperation at worst; however, the commissioner will no longer be the arbitrator of such cases, so in the long term the nfl loses big time and the petty jealous owners will only have them selves to blame for being such total idiot aholes.

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Bayhawks said:

NE_REVIVAL said:

Burl said:

Run It Up said:

Hitler comparisons are always weak, but its still despicable what Goodell has and is still doing.

The way the CBA is written literally anything that isn't explicitly stated Goodell just handwaves and does whatever he wants.

Ignores precedence. Manipulates testimony and completely fabricates information. Absolutely zero burden of proof, he chooses what arbitrary level of evidence he needs to pass judgement. Strong arms entire organizations and withholds information while actively leaking misinformation. Holds people accountable for policies that aren't applicable to them. The list goes on.

Click to expand...

In Goodell's defense none of this has any precedence set assuming it happened the way the NFL states. A CBA has no way of including all different variations of infractions that players can commit.As an aside, everyone talks about how the players will "bargain" for taking Goodell's rights away the next time they look at the CBA. I highly doubt it even gets looked at unless the NFL decides to be very generous. This appeal process affects so few players that it isn't in their interest to change it. In order to change this, you have to give something up. What are they going to give up? Increased pay? Health insurance after retirement? Less hitting during preseason? These things affect every NFL player, there is no way they bargain some of that away. The NFL isn't giving this to the players unless they give something up. What do you think they are going to bargain for, something that affects 2000+ players or something that affects 4 a year?

Click to expand...

I think you might be missing something here, and would respectfully like to offer a counter opinion.

Imo there is a strong possibility the NFLPA wins this case and if they do, the god like role of the commissioner will no longer be something that even needs to be bargained since the courts are going to over rule him and expose it for the circus it is. I admit that I typically side with the owners vs players in most matters, but this whole thing has been so over the top "are u out of ur fn mind" unfair to the player (brady) that I think it is a slam dunk the nfl gets slapped here and this will be the end of the goodell arbitrating appeals of goodell based witch hunts.

I'm not a lawyer and again I freely admit this may be nothing more than wishful thinking on my part, but I think the following is more probable than not

By any measure of fairness the nfl has been way out of line and the bitter owners who are so steadfastly demanding a pound of bradys flesh have given the nflpa the opening they needed to end the farce once and for all. I could be wrong (time will tell), but I think the nfl obviously loses and brady gets a fine and maybe a game for non cooperation at worst; however, the commissioner will no longer be the arbitrator of such cases, so in the long term the nfl loses big time and the petty jealous owners will only have them selves to blame for being such total idiot aholes.

Click to expand...

Goodell had his decisions overturned in bountygate, with Ray Rice, and with Adrian Peterson. What makes this situation any different (assuming the NFLPA wins in court)?You're a NE/Brady fan. You think this is the greatest injustice in the history of the world. You think that dragging Tom Brady's saintly he through the mud means much more than doing the same to those NO players, Rice, & Peterson. The reality is that Goodell's job is safe. Tom Brady isn't as important as you want him to be, and outside of NE, most people think Goodell is doing the right thing, even if he did levy too harsh a punishment.

Click to expand...

Run It Up said:

Bayhawks said:

NE_REVIVAL said:

Burl said:

Run It Up said:

Hitler comparisons are always weak, but its still despicable what Goodell has and is still doing.

The way the CBA is written literally anything that isn't explicitly stated Goodell just handwaves and does whatever he wants.

Ignores precedence. Manipulates testimony and completely fabricates information. Absolutely zero burden of proof, he chooses what arbitrary level of evidence he needs to pass judgement. Strong arms entire organizations and withholds information while actively leaking misinformation. Holds people accountable for policies that aren't applicable to them. The list goes on.

Click to expand...

In Goodell's defense none of this has any precedence set assuming it happened the way the NFL states. A CBA has no way of including all different variations of infractions that players can commit.As an aside, everyone talks about how the players will "bargain" for taking Goodell's rights away the next time they look at the CBA. I highly doubt it even gets looked at unless the NFL decides to be very generous. This appeal process affects so few players that it isn't in their interest to change it. In order to change this, you have to give something up. What are they going to give up? Increased pay? Health insurance after retirement? Less hitting during preseason? These things affect every NFL player, there is no way they bargain some of that away. The NFL isn't giving this to the players unless they give something up. What do you think they are going to bargain for, something that affects 2000+ players or something that affects 4 a year?

Click to expand...

I think you might be missing something here, and would respectfully like to offer a counter opinion.

Imo there is a strong possibility the NFLPA wins this case and if they do, the god like role of the commissioner will no longer be something that even needs to be bargained since the courts are going to over rule him and expose it for the circus it is. I admit that I typically side with the owners vs players in most matters, but this whole thing has been so over the top "are u out of ur fn mind" unfair to the player (brady) that I think it is a slam dunk the nfl gets slapped here and this will be the end of the goodell arbitrating appeals of goodell based witch hunts.

I'm not a lawyer and again I freely admit this may be nothing more than wishful thinking on my part, but I think the following is more probable than not

By any measure of fairness the nfl has been way out of line and the bitter owners who are so steadfastly demanding a pound of bradys flesh have given the nflpa the opening they needed to end the farce once and for all. I could be wrong (time will tell), but I think the nfl obviously loses and brady gets a fine and maybe a game for non cooperation at worst; however, the commissioner will no longer be the arbitrator of such cases, so in the long term the nfl loses big time and the petty jealous owners will only have them selves to blame for being such total idiot aholes.

Click to expand...

Goodell had his decisions overturned in bountygate, with Ray Rice, and with Adrian Peterson. What makes this situation any different (assuming the NFLPA wins in court)?You're a NE/Brady fan. You think this is the greatest injustice in the history of the world. You think that dragging Tom Brady's saintly he through the mud means much more than doing the same to those NO players, Rice, & Peterson. The reality is that Goodell's job is safe. Tom Brady isn't as important as you want him to be, and outside of NE, most people think Goodell is doing the right thing, even if he did levy too harsh a punishment.

Click to expand...

The only difference besides the lengths the league has gone, is that Goodell failed to prove anything, punished Brady under a rule that doesn't apply to him, created a new punishment based on nothing, then arbitrated over the appeal in which he did several other ridiculous things.

Brady has been getting #### on by the camp that thinks hes guilty from week 1. For nothing more than they didn't believe his interview was convincing, because he didn't say the things they wanted him to say, the way they wanted him to say it. But Goodell has lied from the ####### BEGINNING and still is - and people are giving him such a ridiculous double standard.

The Bountygate, Ray Rice and Peterson situations were all handled terribly as well. Even if the Pats are guilty, the league has still done worse by everyone else in these past 6 months than the Patriots - they just haven't accepted that yet.

Click to expand...

Tool said:

Dr. Octopus said:

NE_REVIVAL said:

IvanKaramazov said:

wdcrob said:

"If it doesn't fit you must acquit."

That's pretty much where we are with Pats fans at this point -- hanging onto every possible legalistic technicality and ignoring the obvious, common-sense evidence that shows Brady and the ball boys did exactly what they're accused of.

Which, since it's not a court of law, is what Goodell is basing his punishment on. Whatever the NFL might say for PR purposes.

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Yeah, but the NFL has also done a poor job of handling this. They deserve some criticism for the early leaks, for mischaracterizing what Brady said about his conversations with Jastremski, and stuff like that.

None of that makes Brady any less guilty of course, but Goodell is going to look like an idiot if his bungling of the case ends up getting his suspension vacated.

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Ivan as previously documented you don't have any evidence that brady is guilty of anything. I can't stop you from repeating your "wishful thinking" opinion ad nauseam (your a Bills fan, who can blame u), but I can keep pointing out the fact that you don't have any "real" evidence" Brady is guilty of anything other than not turning over a personal cell phone (for damn good reason) he wasn't in any way obligated to.

Click to expand...

What was the "real" evidence in the Aaron Hernandez murder trial?

Circumstantial evidence holds up under the "beyond a reasonable doubt" criminal standard, yet it's not enough for Pat fans in a league discipline matter.

I'll agree that the penalties levied far exceed the "crime" here, but anyone that doesn't think there was a "crime" is sticking their heads in the sand.

Click to expand...

Yes circumstantial evidence is enough to convict someone of a crime. That doesn't mean these cases are at all similar in the use of circumstantial evidence.In the Hernandez trial there was you know actual evidence: evidence he had been at scene of crime, a video showing his actions after the crime, evidence showing his actions prior to the crime, etc.

For Brady, you're taking a big leap of faith.

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Bayhawks said:

Run It Up said:

Bayhawks said:

NE_REVIVAL said:

Burl said:

Run It Up said:

Hitler comparisons are always weak, but its still despicable what Goodell has and is still doing.

The way the CBA is written literally anything that isn't explicitly stated Goodell just handwaves and does whatever he wants.

Ignores precedence. Manipulates testimony and completely fabricates information. Absolutely zero burden of proof, he chooses what arbitrary level of evidence he needs to pass judgement. Strong arms entire organizations and withholds information while actively leaking misinformation. Holds people accountable for policies that aren't applicable to them. The list goes on.

Click to expand...

In Goodell's defense none of this has any precedence set assuming it happened the way the NFL states. A CBA has no way of including all different variations of infractions that players can commit.As an aside, everyone talks about how the players will "bargain" for taking Goodell's rights away the next time they look at the CBA. I highly doubt it even gets looked at unless the NFL decides to be very generous. This appeal process affects so few players that it isn't in their interest to change it. In order to change this, you have to give something up. What are they going to give up? Increased pay? Health insurance after retirement? Less hitting during preseason? These things affect every NFL player, there is no way they bargain some of that away. The NFL isn't giving this to the players unless they give something up. What do you think they are going to bargain for, something that affects 2000+ players or something that affects 4 a year?

Click to expand...

I think you might be missing something here, and would respectfully like to offer a counter opinion.

Imo there is a strong possibility the NFLPA wins this case and if they do, the god like role of the commissioner will no longer be something that even needs to be bargained since the courts are going to over rule him and expose it for the circus it is. I admit that I typically side with the owners vs players in most matters, but this whole thing has been so over the top "are u out of ur fn mind" unfair to the player (brady) that I think it is a slam dunk the nfl gets slapped here and this will be the end of the goodell arbitrating appeals of goodell based witch hunts.

I'm not a lawyer and again I freely admit this may be nothing more than wishful thinking on my part, but I think the following is more probable than not

By any measure of fairness the nfl has been way out of line and the bitter owners who are so steadfastly demanding a pound of bradys flesh have given the nflpa the opening they needed to end the farce once and for all. I could be wrong (time will tell), but I think the nfl obviously loses and brady gets a fine and maybe a game for non cooperation at worst; however, the commissioner will no longer be the arbitrator of such cases, so in the long term the nfl loses big time and the petty jealous owners will only have them selves to blame for being such total idiot aholes.

Click to expand...

Goodell had his decisions overturned in bountygate, with Ray Rice, and with Adrian Peterson. What makes this situation any different (assuming the NFLPA wins in court)?You're a NE/Brady fan. You think this is the greatest injustice in the history of the world. You think that dragging Tom Brady's saintly he through the mud means much more than doing the same to those NO players, Rice, & Peterson. The reality is that Goodell's job is safe. Tom Brady isn't as important as you want him to be, and outside of NE, most people think Goodell is doing the right thing, even if he did levy too harsh a punishment.

Click to expand...

The only difference besides the lengths the league has gone, is that Goodell failed to prove anything, punished Brady under a rule that doesn't apply to him, created a new punishment based on nothing, then arbitrated over the appeal in which he did several other ridiculous things.

Brady has been getting #### on by the camp that thinks hes guilty from week 1. For nothing more than they didn't believe his interview was convincing, because he didn't say the things they wanted him to say, the way they wanted him to say it. But Goodell has lied from the ####### BEGINNING and still is - and people are giving him such a ridiculous double standard.

The Bountygate, Ray Rice and Peterson situations were all handled terribly as well. Even if the Pats are guilty, the league has still done worse by everyone else in these past 6 months than the Patriots - they just haven't accepted that yet.

Click to expand...

You have about as much proof of Goodell's lies as people who think Brady lied.

You think he lied (they think Brady lied), and you can make a convincing argument he lied (they can make a convincing argument Brady lied), but you can't PROVE he lied (they can't PROVE Brady lied).

But because he's on "the other side," you are indignant and outraged.

The bountygate, Ray Rice, and Peterson situations were handled horribly, as well. Again, the difference in your mind, is that it's YOUR team and YOUR QB in the cross-hairs, so you think it's so much different/worse. The reality is that Goodell has survived previous F-ups, and he'll survive this one as well. NE/Brady aren't as important as you think they are.

Click to expand...

Run It Up said:

Bayhawks said:

Run It Up said:

Bayhawks said:

NE_REVIVAL said:

Burl said:

Run It Up said:

Hitler comparisons are always weak, but its still despicable what Goodell has and is still doing.

The way the CBA is written literally anything that isn't explicitly stated Goodell just handwaves and does whatever he wants.

Ignores precedence. Manipulates testimony and completely fabricates information. Absolutely zero burden of proof, he chooses what arbitrary level of evidence he needs to pass judgement. Strong arms entire organizations and withholds information while actively leaking misinformation. Holds people accountable for policies that aren't applicable to them. The list goes on.

Click to expand...

In Goodell's defense none of this has any precedence set assuming it happened the way the NFL states. A CBA has no way of including all different variations of infractions that players can commit.As an aside, everyone talks about how the players will "bargain" for taking Goodell's rights away the next time they look at the CBA. I highly doubt it even gets looked at unless the NFL decides to be very generous. This appeal process affects so few players that it isn't in their interest to change it. In order to change this, you have to give something up. What are they going to give up? Increased pay? Health insurance after retirement? Less hitting during preseason? These things affect every NFL player, there is no way they bargain some of that away. The NFL isn't giving this to the players unless they give something up. What do you think they are going to bargain for, something that affects 2000+ players or something that affects 4 a year?

Click to expand...

I think you might be missing something here, and would respectfully like to offer a counter opinion.

Imo there is a strong possibility the NFLPA wins this case and if they do, the god like role of the commissioner will no longer be something that even needs to be bargained since the courts are going to over rule him and expose it for the circus it is. I admit that I typically side with the owners vs players in most matters, but this whole thing has been so over the top "are u out of ur fn mind" unfair to the player (brady) that I think it is a slam dunk the nfl gets slapped here and this will be the end of the goodell arbitrating appeals of goodell based witch hunts.

I'm not a lawyer and again I freely admit this may be nothing more than wishful thinking on my part, but I think the following is more probable than not

By any measure of fairness the nfl has been way out of line and the bitter owners who are so steadfastly demanding a pound of bradys flesh have given the nflpa the opening they needed to end the farce once and for all. I could be wrong (time will tell), but I think the nfl obviously loses and brady gets a fine and maybe a game for non cooperation at worst; however, the commissioner will no longer be the arbitrator of such cases, so in the long term the nfl loses big time and the petty jealous owners will only have them selves to blame for being such total idiot aholes.

Click to expand...

Goodell had his decisions overturned in bountygate, with Ray Rice, and with Adrian Peterson. What makes this situation any different (assuming the NFLPA wins in court)?You're a NE/Brady fan. You think this is the greatest injustice in the history of the world. You think that dragging Tom Brady's saintly he through the mud means much more than doing the same to those NO players, Rice, & Peterson. The reality is that Goodell's job is safe. Tom Brady isn't as important as you want him to be, and outside of NE, most people think Goodell is doing the right thing, even if he did levy too harsh a punishment.

Click to expand...

The only difference besides the lengths the league has gone, is that Goodell failed to prove anything, punished Brady under a rule that doesn't apply to him, created a new punishment based on nothing, then arbitrated over the appeal in which he did several other ridiculous things.Brady has been getting #### on by the camp that thinks hes guilty from week 1. For nothing more than they didn't believe his interview was convincing, because he didn't say the things they wanted him to say, the way they wanted him to say it. But Goodell has lied from the ####### BEGINNING and still is - and people are giving him such a ridiculous double standard.

The Bountygate, Ray Rice and Peterson situations were all handled terribly as well. Even if the Pats are guilty, the league has still done worse by everyone else in these past 6 months than the Patriots - they just haven't accepted that yet.

Click to expand...

You have about as much proof of Goodell's lies as people who think Brady lied.You think he lied (they think Brady lied), and you can make a convincing argument he lied (they can make a convincing argument Brady lied), but you can't PROVE he lied (they can't PROVE Brady lied).

But because he's on "the other side," you are indignant and outraged.

The bountygate, Ray Rice, and Peterson situations were handled horribly, as well. Again, the difference in your mind, is that it's YOUR team and YOUR QB in the cross-hairs, so you think it's so much different/worse. The reality is that Goodell has survived previous F-ups, and he'll survive this one as well. NE/Brady aren't as important as you think they are.

Click to expand...

I don't know what else you would call misrepresentation of facts other than a lie. I think that might actually be the ####### definition of a lie. Whether you can prove Brady has done that remains to be seen, but there are plenty of examples of Goodell doing it, and thats just from one day of information.Also, wtf does any of that have to do with what I said in the quoted text?

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