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Patriots being investigated after Colts game

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Hitler comparisons are always weak, but its still despicable what Goodell has and is still doing.

The way the CBA is written literally anything that isn't explicitly stated Goodell just handwaves and does whatever he wants.

Ignores precedence. Manipulates testimony and completely fabricates information. Absolutely zero burden of proof, he chooses what arbitrary level of evidence he needs to pass judgement. Strong arms entire organizations and withholds information while actively leaking misinformation. Holds people accountable for policies that aren't applicable to them. The list goes on.

In Goodell's defense none of this has any precedence set assuming it happened the way the NFL states. A CBA has no way of including all different variations of infractions that players can commit.

As an aside, everyone talks about how the players will "bargain" for taking Goodell's rights away the next time they look at the CBA. I highly doubt it even gets looked at unless the NFL decides to be very generous. This appeal process affects so few players that it isn't in their interest to change it. In order to change this, you have to give something up. What are they going to give up? Increased pay? Health insurance after retirement? Less hitting during preseason? These things affect every NFL player, there is no way they bargain some of that away. The NFL isn't giving this to the players unless they give something up. What do you think they are going to bargain for, something that affects 2000+ players or something that affects 4 a year?

I think you might be missing something here, and would respectfully like to offer a counter opinion.

Imo there is a strong possibility the NFLPA wins this case and if they do, the god like role of the commissioner will no longer be something that even needs to be bargained since the courts are going to over rule him and expose it for the circus it is. I admit that I typically side with the owners vs players in most matters, but this whole thing has been so over the top "are u out of ur fn mind" unfair to the player (brady) that I think it is a slam dunk the nfl gets slapped here and this will be the end of the goodell arbitrating appeals of goodell based witch hunts.

I'm not a lawyer and again I freely admit this may be nothing more than wishful thinking on my part, but I think the following is more probable than not ;)

By any measure of fairness the nfl has been way out of line and the bitter owners who are so steadfastly demanding a pound of bradys flesh have given the nflpa the opening they needed to end the farce once and for all. I could be wrong (time will tell), but I think the nfl obviously loses and brady gets a fine and maybe a game for non cooperation at worst; however, the commissioner will no longer be the arbitrator of such cases, so in the long term the nfl loses big time and the petty jealous owners will only have them selves to blame for being such total idiot aholes.

Goodell had his decisions overturned in bountygate, with Ray Rice, and with Adrian Peterson. What makes this situation any different (assuming the NFLPA wins in court)?

You're a NE/Brady fan. You think this is the greatest injustice in the history of the world. You think that dragging Tom Brady's saintly he through the mud means much more than doing the same to those NO players, Rice, & Peterson. The reality is that Goodell's job is safe. Tom Brady isn't as important as you want him to be, and outside of NE, most people think Goodell is doing the right thing, even if he did levy too harsh a punishment.

The only difference besides the lengths the league has gone, is that Goodell failed to prove anything, punished Brady under a rule that doesn't apply to him, created a new punishment based on nothing, then arbitrated over the appeal in which he did several other ridiculous things.

Brady has been getting #### on by the camp that thinks hes guilty from week 1. For nothing more than they didn't believe his interview was convincing, because he didn't say the things they wanted him to say, the way they wanted him to say it. But Goodell has lied from the ####### BEGINNING and still is - and people are giving him such a ridiculous double standard.

The Bountygate, Ray Rice and Peterson situations were all handled terribly as well. Even if the Pats are guilty, the league has still done worse by everyone else in these past 6 months than the Patriots - they just haven't accepted that yet.

You have about as much proof of Goodell's lies as people who think Brady lied.

You think he lied (they think Brady lied), and you can make a convincing argument he lied (they can make a convincing argument Brady lied), but you can't PROVE he lied (they can't PROVE Brady lied).

But because he's on "the other side," you are indignant and outraged.

The bountygate, Ray Rice, and Peterson situations were handled horribly, as well. Again, the difference in your mind, is that it's YOUR team and YOUR QB in the cross-hairs, so you think it's so much different/worse. The reality is that Goodell has survived previous F-ups, and he'll survive this one as well. NE/Brady aren't as important as you think they are.

I don't know what else you would call misrepresentation of facts other than a lie. I think that might actually be the ####### definition of a lie. Whether you can prove Brady has done that remains to be seen, but there are plenty of examples of Goodell doing it, and thats just from one day of information.

Also, wtf does any of that have to do with what I said in the quoted text?

I'd be surprised if you could give any more examples of Goodells PROVEN "lies" than one could find of PROVEN Brady "lies." Feel free to provide some examples (with proof) of Goodells lies.

ETA-2nd paragraph "But Goodell has lied from the ####### BEGINNING and still is." You claim Goodell has lied, but when presented with examples of Brady lying, you ignore them or present/accept ridiculous explanations for those lies.

Edited by Bayhawks

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The only difference besides the lengths the league has gone, is that Goodell failed to prove anything, punished Brady under a rule that doesn't apply to him, created a new punishment based on nothing, then arbitrated over the appeal in which he did several other ridiculous things.

Brady has been getting #### on by the camp that thinks hes guilty from week 1. For nothing more than they didn't believe his interview was convincing, because he didn't say the things they wanted him to say, the way they wanted him to say it. But Goodell has lied from the ####### BEGINNING and still is - and people are giving him such a ridiculous double standard.

The Bountygate, Ray Rice and Peterson situations were all handled terribly as well. Even if the Pats are guilty, the league has still done worse by everyone else in these past 6 months than the Patriots - they just haven't accepted that yet.

You have about as much proof of Goodell's lies as people who think Brady lied.

You think he lied (they think Brady lied), and you can make a convincing argument he lied (they can make a convincing argument Brady lied), but you can't PROVE he lied (they can't PROVE Brady lied).

But because he's on "the other side," you are indignant and outraged.

The bountygate, Ray Rice, and Peterson situations were handled horribly, as well. Again, the difference in your mind, is that it's YOUR team and YOUR QB in the cross-hairs, so you think it's so much different/worse. The reality is that Goodell has survived previous F-ups, and he'll survive this one as well. NE/Brady aren't as important as you think they are.

I don't know what else you would call misrepresentation of facts other than a lie. I think that might actually be the ####### definition of a lie. Whether you can prove Brady has done that remains to be seen, but there are plenty of examples of Goodell doing it, and thats just from one day of information.

Also, wtf does any of that have to do with what I said in the quoted text?

I'd be surprised if you could give any more examples of Goodells PROVEN "lies" than one could find of PROVEN Brady "lies." Feel free to provide some examples (with proof) of Goidelks lies.

Pick one

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The only difference besides the lengths the league has gone, is that Goodell failed to prove anything, punished Brady under a rule that doesn't apply to him, created a new punishment based on nothing, then arbitrated over the appeal in which he did several other ridiculous things.

Brady has been getting #### on by the camp that thinks hes guilty from week 1. For nothing more than they didn't believe his interview was convincing, because he didn't say the things they wanted him to say, the way they wanted him to say it. But Goodell has lied from the ####### BEGINNING and still is - and people are giving him such a ridiculous double standard.

The Bountygate, Ray Rice and Peterson situations were all handled terribly as well. Even if the Pats are guilty, the league has still done worse by everyone else in these past 6 months than the Patriots - they just haven't accepted that yet.

You have about as much proof of Goodell's lies as people who think Brady lied.

You think he lied (they think Brady lied), and you can make a convincing argument he lied (they can make a convincing argument Brady lied), but you can't PROVE he lied (they can't PROVE Brady lied).

But because he's on "the other side," you are indignant and outraged.

The bountygate, Ray Rice, and Peterson situations were handled horribly, as well. Again, the difference in your mind, is that it's YOUR team and YOUR QB in the cross-hairs, so you think it's so much different/worse. The reality is that Goodell has survived previous F-ups, and he'll survive this one as well. NE/Brady aren't as important as you think they are.

I don't know what else you would call misrepresentation of facts other than a lie. I think that might actually be the ####### definition of a lie. Whether you can prove Brady has done that remains to be seen, but there are plenty of examples of Goodell doing it, and thats just from one day of information.

Also, wtf does any of that have to do with what I said in the quoted text?

I'd be surprised if you could give any more examples of Goodells PROVEN "lies" than one could find of PROVEN Brady "lies." Feel free to provide some examples (with proof) of Goidelks lies.

Pick one
So you can't provide any examples with proof? Just articles that offer speculation and conjecture, without proof? OK.

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You guys know the current hearing has nothing to do with the testimony Brady gave or any of the evidence presented right?

At this point, it doesnt matter what the evidence trail demonstrates. The only question before the judge is if the NFL followed the process agreed to by the NFLPA in the current CBA.

Releasing Bradys testimony was simply a PR stunt by the NFLPA. An effective one, no doubt, but it has no impact on the question before the judge.

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"If it doesn't fit you must acquit."

That's pretty much where we are with Pats fans at this point -- hanging onto every possible legalistic technicality and ignoring the obvious, common-sense evidence that shows Brady and the ball boys did exactly what they're accused of.

Which, since it's not a court of law, is what Goodell is basing his punishment on. Whatever the NFL might say for PR purposes.

Yeah, but the NFL has also done a poor job of handling this. They deserve some criticism for the early leaks, for mischaracterizing what Brady said about his conversations with Jastremski, and stuff like that.

None of that makes Brady any less guilty of course, but Goodell is going to look like an idiot if his bungling of the case ends up getting his suspension vacated.

Ivan as previously documented you don't have any evidence that brady is guilty of anything. I can't stop you from repeating your "wishful thinking" opinion ad nauseam (your a Bills fan, who can blame u), but I can keep pointing out the fact that you don't have any "real" evidence" Brady is guilty of anything other than not turning over a personal cell phone (for damn good reason) he wasn't in any way obligated to.

What was the "real" evidence in the Aaron Hernandez murder trial?

Circumstantial evidence holds up under the "beyond a reasonable doubt" criminal standard, yet it's not enough for Pat fans in a league discipline matter.

I'll agree that the penalties levied far exceed the "crime" here, but anyone that doesn't think there was a "crime" is sticking their heads in the sand.

The evidence against AH was overwhelming and I believe it included his DNA so they really aren't comparable imo.

To be clear, I believe there is circumstantial evidence that wrong doing (crime if that's what u want to call it) may have occurred. I'm not arguing the evidence against the team and the punishment they got even though I feel the evidence was flimsy at best ant the punishment excessive.

I'm contesting the allegations against Brady and I just don't see any evidence that he orchestrated it or even knew the equip guys (allegedly) were breaking the rules. To those who say, well he must have known the ball was so obviously under pressure; I would ask if that's really the case then why didn't anyone else ever notice it until the buthurt Ravens and Rat Colts brought it up? The obvious answer imho is that illegal deflation either wasn't occurring or the lower psi wasn't discernable. Think about this, we (and the nfl) now know about the ideal gas law, how weather effects PSI and undoubtedly there have likely been hundreds if not thousands of games where the football was above or below the required ranges. Did anyone ever notice or do anything to correct it? No, and yet Brady must have known is the haters mantra and primary piece of "evidence" against him. Give me a break, its NFL Bread and Circus.

Listening to the FBG pre season watch list NE podcast and even Bloom admits that (rightly or wrongly) the other 31 teams have it out for NE and imo so much of it is driven on pure unadulterated jealousy and envy. So many are so eager to tarnish one of the greatest players who ever lived based on literally no evidence. Haters gonna hate, but c'mon people, to do this to Brady is a sham and a travesty.............

Its almost universally thought that no one in NE would alter the foorballs without Bradys OK. Brady himself said no one in NE would alter the balls after he'd picked them out.

Translation

“Its almost universally thought that no one in NE would alter the footballs without Bradys OK”

“Its almost universally thought that if anybody cheated Brady MUST have orchestrated it” .......OMFG…….

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Its not debatable, Goodell did misrepresent Brady's testimony.

Whether Brady's testimony is true or not is irrelevant.

So, it doesn't matter if Brady lies, but it does matter if Goodell misrepresents?

OK, no bias in that statement.

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You guys know the current hearing has nothing to do with the testimony Brady gave or any of the evidence presented right?

At this point, it doesnt matter what the evidence trail demonstrates. The only question before the judge is if the NFL followed the process agreed to by the NFLPA in the current CBA.

Releasing Bradys testimony was simply a PR stunt by the NFLPA. An effective one, no doubt, but it has no impact on the question before the judge.

That doesn't matter to either side however. Folks seem entrenched in their positions and can't back out of them now, so they double-down. That's how you get posts where Goodell is being compared to someone who murdered millions of people.

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Its not debatable, Goodell did misrepresent Brady's testimony.

Whether Brady's testimony is true or not is irrelevant.

So, it doesn't matter if Brady lies, but it does matter if Goodell misrepresents?

OK, no bias in that statement.

I said Goodell lied, we know he did, he knowingly did it to defame Brady even more (that last part is my opinion, the first part is not.)

We don't know if Brady lied. Whether YOU believe his testimony is irrelevant to the fact that Goodell did lie.

You are purposefully being obtuse. I know you perfectly well understood what I said.

Edited by Run It Up

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Its not debatable, Goodell did misrepresent Brady's testimony.

Whether Brady's testimony is true or not is irrelevant.

So, it doesn't matter if Brady lies, but it does matter if Goodell misrepresents?

OK, no bias in that statement.

I said Goodell lied, we know he did, he knowingly did it to defame Brady even more (that last part is my opinion, the first part is not.)

We don't know if Brady lied. Whether YOU believe his testimony is irrelevant to the fact that Goodell did lie.

You are purposefully being obtuse. I know you perfectly well understood what I said.

We know Brady lied. He claimed, under oath, that he has ALWAYS destroyed his cell phone when he switches to a new one. However, his previous cell phone (which coincidentally DID NOT have any texts/emails on it the NFL wanted to see) was not destroyed. So that's one proven lie for Brady to one "misrepresentation" for Goodell. You are purposely ignoring the fact that Tom Brady is as dirty as Goodell. Edited by Bayhawks

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You are purposely ignoring the fact that Tom Brady is as dirty as Goodell.

Yeah, history will show them as very similar in this aspect. Well said.

Actually, that's poorly said nonsense, "facts" and "dirty" and all. lol

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Its not debatable, Goodell did misrepresent Brady's testimony.

Whether Brady's testimony is true or not is irrelevant.

So, it doesn't matter if Brady lies, but it does matter if Goodell misrepresents?

OK, no bias in that statement.

I said Goodell lied, we know he did, he knowingly did it to defame Brady even more (that last part is my opinion, the first part is not.)

We don't know if Brady lied. Whether YOU believe his testimony is irrelevant to the fact that Goodell did lie.

You are purposefully being obtuse. I know you perfectly well understood what I said.

We know Brady lied. He claimed, under oath, that he has ALWAYS destroyed his cell phone when he switches to a new one. However, his previous cell phone (which coincidentally DID NOT have any texts/emails on it the NFL wanted to see) was not destroyed. So that's one proven lie for Brady to one "misrepresentation" for Goodell. You are purposely ignoring the fact that Tom Brady is as dirty as Goodell.

Do you see yourself as Perry Mason, Sherlock Holmes, Hercule Poirot or Inspector Clouseau?

In Goodell's decision he actually says "Mr. Brady testified that it is his practice to destroy his cell phone"...

So did you lie when you said he said "always"?

Do you realize how many opinions have been formed on misinformation or simply outright bias?

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Hitler comparisons are always weak, but its still despicable what Goodell has and is still doing.

The way the CBA is written literally anything that isn't explicitly stated Goodell just handwaves and does whatever he wants.

Ignores precedence. Manipulates testimony and completely fabricates information. Absolutely zero burden of proof, he chooses what arbitrary level of evidence he needs to pass judgement. Strong arms entire organizations and withholds information while actively leaking misinformation. Holds people accountable for policies that aren't applicable to them. The list goes on.

In Goodell's defense none of this has any precedence set assuming it happened the way the NFL states. A CBA has no way of including all different variations of infractions that players can commit.

As an aside, everyone talks about how the players will "bargain" for taking Goodell's rights away the next time they look at the CBA. I highly doubt it even gets looked at unless the NFL decides to be very generous. This appeal process affects so few players that it isn't in their interest to change it. In order to change this, you have to give something up. What are they going to give up? Increased pay? Health insurance after retirement? Less hitting during preseason? These things affect every NFL player, there is no way they bargain some of that away. The NFL isn't giving this to the players unless they give something up. What do you think they are going to bargain for, something that affects 2000+ players or something that affects 4 a year?

I think you might be missing something here, and would respectfully like to offer a counter opinion.

Imo there is a strong possibility the NFLPA wins this case and if they do, the god like role of the commissioner will no longer be something that even needs to be bargained since the courts are going to over rule him and expose it for the circus it is. I admit that I typically side with the owners vs players in most matters, but this whole thing has been so over the top "are u out of ur fn mind" unfair to the player (brady) that I think it is a slam dunk the nfl gets slapped here and this will be the end of the goodell arbitrating appeals of goodell based witch hunts.

I'm not a lawyer and again I freely admit this may be nothing more than wishful thinking on my part, but I think the following is more probable than not ;)

By any measure of fairness the nfl has been way out of line and the bitter owners who are so steadfastly demanding a pound of bradys flesh have given the nflpa the opening they needed to end the farce once and for all. I could be wrong (time will tell), but I think the nfl obviously loses and brady gets a fine and maybe a game for non cooperation at worst; however, the commissioner will no longer be the arbitrator of such cases, so in the long term the nfl loses big time and the petty jealous owners will only have them selves to blame for being such total idiot aholes.

Goodell had his decisions overturned in bountygate, with Ray Rice, and with Adrian Peterson. What makes this situation any different (assuming the NFLPA wins in court)?

You're a NE/Brady fan. You think this is the greatest injustice in the history of the world. You think that dragging Tom Brady's saintly he through the mud means much more than doing the same to those NO players, Rice, & Peterson. The reality is that Goodell's job is safe. Tom Brady isn't as important as you want him to be, and outside of NE, most people think Goodell is doing the right thing, even if he did levy too harsh a punishment.

The only difference besides the lengths the league has gone, is that Goodell failed to prove anything, punished Brady under a rule that doesn't apply to him, created a new punishment based on nothing, then arbitrated over the appeal in which he did several other ridiculous things.

Brady has been getting #### on by the camp that thinks hes guilty from week 1. For nothing more than they didn't believe his interview was convincing, because he didn't say the things they wanted him to say, the way they wanted him to say it. But Goodell has lied from the ####### BEGINNING and still is - and people are giving him such a ridiculous double standard.

The Bountygate, Ray Rice and Peterson situations were all handled terribly as well. Even if the Pats are guilty, the league has still done worse by everyone else in these past 6 months than the Patriots - they just haven't accepted that yet.

You have about as much proof of Goodell's lies as people who think Brady lied.

You think he lied (they think Brady lied), and you can make a convincing argument he lied (they can make a convincing argument Brady lied), but you can't PROVE he lied (they can't PROVE Brady lied).

But because he's on "the other side," you are indignant and outraged.

The bountygate, Ray Rice, and Peterson situations were handled horribly, as well. Again, the difference in your mind, is that it's YOUR team and YOUR QB in the cross-hairs, so you think it's so much different/worse. The reality is that Goodell has survived previous F-ups, and he'll survive this one as well. NE/Brady aren't as important as you think they are.

Goodell has been horribly inconsistent for a long time. Only one team voted against the CBA because they didn't think Goodell should decide on punishment and hear the appeals.

It is too bad the players on the other 31 teams didn't feel it was important to have an impartial appeal process. I can't say that I feel bad for them now.

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Hitler comparisons are always weak, but its still despicable what Goodell has and is still doing.

The way the CBA is written literally anything that isn't explicitly stated Goodell just handwaves and does whatever he wants.

Ignores precedence. Manipulates testimony and completely fabricates information. Absolutely zero burden of proof, he chooses what arbitrary level of evidence he needs to pass judgement. Strong arms entire organizations and withholds information while actively leaking misinformation. Holds people accountable for policies that aren't applicable to them. The list goes on.

In Goodell's defense none of this has any precedence set assuming it happened the way the NFL states. A CBA has no way of including all different variations of infractions that players can commit.

As an aside, everyone talks about how the players will "bargain" for taking Goodell's rights away the next time they look at the CBA. I highly doubt it even gets looked at unless the NFL decides to be very generous. This appeal process affects so few players that it isn't in their interest to change it. In order to change this, you have to give something up. What are they going to give up? Increased pay? Health insurance after retirement? Less hitting during preseason? These things affect every NFL player, there is no way they bargain some of that away. The NFL isn't giving this to the players unless they give something up. What do you think they are going to bargain for, something that affects 2000+ players or something that affects 4 a year?

I think you might be missing something here, and would respectfully like to offer a counter opinion.

Imo there is a strong possibility the NFLPA wins this case and if they do, the god like role of the commissioner will no longer be something that even needs to be bargained since the courts are going to over rule him and expose it for the circus it is. I admit that I typically side with the owners vs players in most matters, but this whole thing has been so over the top "are u out of ur fn mind" unfair to the player (brady) that I think it is a slam dunk the nfl gets slapped here and this will be the end of the goodell arbitrating appeals of goodell based witch hunts.

I'm not a lawyer and again I freely admit this may be nothing more than wishful thinking on my part, but I think the following is more probable than not ;)

By any measure of fairness the nfl has been way out of line and the bitter owners who are so steadfastly demanding a pound of bradys flesh have given the nflpa the opening they needed to end the farce once and for all. I could be wrong (time will tell), but I think the nfl obviously loses and brady gets a fine and maybe a game for non cooperation at worst; however, the commissioner will no longer be the arbitrator of such cases, so in the long term the nfl loses big time and the petty jealous owners will only have them selves to blame for being such total idiot aholes.

Goodell had his decisions overturned in bountygate, with Ray Rice, and with Adrian Peterson. What makes this situation any different (assuming the NFLPA wins in court)?

You're a NE/Brady fan. You think this is the greatest injustice in the history of the world. You think that dragging Tom Brady's saintly he through the mud means much more than doing the same to those NO players, Rice, & Peterson. The reality is that Goodell's job is safe. Tom Brady isn't as important as you want him to be, and outside of NE, most people think Goodell is doing the right thing, even if he did levy too harsh a punishment.

The only difference besides the lengths the league has gone, is that Goodell failed to prove anything, punished Brady under a rule that doesn't apply to him, created a new punishment based on nothing, then arbitrated over the appeal in which he did several other ridiculous things.

Brady has been getting #### on by the camp that thinks hes guilty from week 1. For nothing more than they didn't believe his interview was convincing, because he didn't say the things they wanted him to say, the way they wanted him to say it. But Goodell has lied from the ####### BEGINNING and still is - and people are giving him such a ridiculous double standard.

The Bountygate, Ray Rice and Peterson situations were all handled terribly as well. Even if the Pats are guilty, the league has still done worse by everyone else in these past 6 months than the Patriots - they just haven't accepted that yet.

You have about as much proof of Goodell's lies as people who think Brady lied.

You think he lied (they think Brady lied), and you can make a convincing argument he lied (they can make a convincing argument Brady lied), but you can't PROVE he lied (they can't PROVE Brady lied).

But because he's on "the other side," you are indignant and outraged.

The bountygate, Ray Rice, and Peterson situations were handled horribly, as well. Again, the difference in your mind, is that it's YOUR team and YOUR QB in the cross-hairs, so you think it's so much different/worse. The reality is that Goodell has survived previous F-ups, and he'll survive this one as well. NE/Brady aren't as important as you think they are.

Goodell has been horribly inconsistent for a long time. Only one team voted against the CBA because they didn't think Goodell should decide on punishment and hear the appeals.

It is too bad the players on the other 31 teams didn't feel it was important to have an impartial appeal process. I can't say that I feel bad for them now.

They didn't vote against it because player health, safety and pay were MUCH larger factors to them. To get something in that CBA, you need to give something. If I'm a player working hard, following the rules and staying out of trouble, why would I want to help players who can't stay out of their own way and are constantly in trouble. The players may not like the process, but I'm sure they would rather have this than give up something else like increased pay and a decreased preseason practice schedule.

Assuming the courts don't change anything on their own, the players won't change it.

Edited by Burl

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Releasing Bradys testimony was simply a PR stunt by the NFLPA. An effective one, no doubt, but it has no impact on the question before the judge.

You realize that the federal judge ordered everything unsealed?

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Releasing Bradys testimony was simply a PR stunt by the NFLPA. An effective one, no doubt, but it has no impact on the question before the judge.

You realize that the federal judge ordered everything unsealed?

NE propaganda lol

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Its not debatable, Goodell did misrepresent Brady's testimony.

Whether Brady's testimony is true or not is irrelevant.

So, it doesn't matter if Brady lies, but it does matter if Goodell misrepresents?

OK, no bias in that statement.

I said Goodell lied, we know he did, he knowingly did it to defame Brady even more (that last part is my opinion, the first part is not.)

We don't know if Brady lied. Whether YOU believe his testimony is irrelevant to the fact that Goodell did lie.

You are purposefully being obtuse. I know you perfectly well understood what I said.

We know Brady lied. He claimed, under oath, that he has ALWAYS destroyed his cell phone when he switches to a new one. However, his previous cell phone (which coincidentally DID NOT have any texts/emails on it the NFL wanted to see) was not destroyed. So that's one proven lie for Brady to one "misrepresentation" for Goodell. You are purposely ignoring the fact that Tom Brady is as dirty as Goodell.

Do you see yourself as Perry Mason, Sherlock Holmes, Hercule Poirot or Inspector Clouseau?

In Goodell's decision he actually says "Mr. Brady testified that it is his practice to destroy his cell phone"...

So did you lie when you said he said "always"?

Do you realize how many opinions have been formed on misinformation or simply outright bias?

Do you realize there is a transcript of Bradys appeal? A few pages back, I provided the link AND his quotes, which is where I got my information. I didn't lie, BRADY said he always destroys his phones, then HE emphasized that point.

That being said, I can't say I'm shocked that NE fans are ignoring this, now. They are outraged about the lies of Goodell, (unproven lies, BTW), but when faced with proof of Brady/NE lies, they simply ignore them.

Edited by Bayhawks

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Hitler comparisons are always weak, but its still despicable what Goodell has and is still doing.

The way the CBA is written literally anything that isn't explicitly stated Goodell just handwaves and does whatever he wants.

Ignores precedence. Manipulates testimony and completely fabricates information. Absolutely zero burden of proof, he chooses what arbitrary level of evidence he needs to pass judgement. Strong arms entire organizations and withholds information while actively leaking misinformation. Holds people accountable for policies that aren't applicable to them. The list goes on.

In Goodell's defense none of this has any precedence set assuming it happened the way the NFL states. A CBA has no way of including all different variations of infractions that players can commit.

As an aside, everyone talks about how the players will "bargain" for taking Goodell's rights away the next time they look at the CBA. I highly doubt it even gets looked at unless the NFL decides to be very generous. This appeal process affects so few players that it isn't in their interest to change it. In order to change this, you have to give something up. What are they going to give up? Increased pay? Health insurance after retirement? Less hitting during preseason? These things affect every NFL player, there is no way they bargain some of that away. The NFL isn't giving this to the players unless they give something up. What do you think they are going to bargain for, something that affects 2000+ players or something that affects 4 a year?

I think you might be missing something here, and would respectfully like to offer a counter opinion.

Imo there is a strong possibility the NFLPA wins this case and if they do, the god like role of the commissioner will no longer be something that even needs to be bargained since the courts are going to over rule him and expose it for the circus it is. I admit that I typically side with the owners vs players in most matters, but this whole thing has been so over the top "are u out of ur fn mind" unfair to the player (brady) that I think it is a slam dunk the nfl gets slapped here and this will be the end of the goodell arbitrating appeals of goodell based witch hunts.

I'm not a lawyer and again I freely admit this may be nothing more than wishful thinking on my part, but I think the following is more probable than not ;)

By any measure of fairness the nfl has been way out of line and the bitter owners who are so steadfastly demanding a pound of bradys flesh have given the nflpa the opening they needed to end the farce once and for all. I could be wrong (time will tell), but I think the nfl obviously loses and brady gets a fine and maybe a game for non cooperation at worst; however, the commissioner will no longer be the arbitrator of such cases, so in the long term the nfl loses big time and the petty jealous owners will only have them selves to blame for being such total idiot aholes.

Goodell had his decisions overturned in bountygate, with Ray Rice, and with Adrian Peterson. What makes this situation any different (assuming the NFLPA wins in court)?

You're a NE/Brady fan. You think this is the greatest injustice in the history of the world. You think that dragging Tom Brady's saintly he through the mud means much more than doing the same to those NO players, Rice, & Peterson. The reality is that Goodell's job is safe. Tom Brady isn't as important as you want him to be, and outside of NE, most people think Goodell is doing the right thing, even if he did levy too harsh a punishment.

The only difference besides the lengths the league has gone, is that Goodell failed to prove anything, punished Brady under a rule that doesn't apply to him, created a new punishment based on nothing, then arbitrated over the appeal in which he did several other ridiculous things.

Brady has been getting #### on by the camp that thinks hes guilty from week 1. For nothing more than they didn't believe his interview was convincing, because he didn't say the things they wanted him to say, the way they wanted him to say it. But Goodell has lied from the ####### BEGINNING and still is - and people are giving him such a ridiculous double standard.

The Bountygate, Ray Rice and Peterson situations were all handled terribly as well. Even if the Pats are guilty, the league has still done worse by everyone else in these past 6 months than the Patriots - they just haven't accepted that yet.

You have about as much proof of Goodell's lies as people who think Brady lied.

You think he lied (they think Brady lied), and you can make a convincing argument he lied (they can make a convincing argument Brady lied), but you can't PROVE he lied (they can't PROVE Brady lied).

But because he's on "the other side," you are indignant and outraged.

The bountygate, Ray Rice, and Peterson situations were handled horribly, as well. Again, the difference in your mind, is that it's YOUR team and YOUR QB in the cross-hairs, so you think it's so much different/worse. The reality is that Goodell has survived previous F-ups, and he'll survive this one as well. NE/Brady aren't as important as you think they are.

Goodell has been horribly inconsistent for a long time. Only one team voted against the CBA because they didn't think Goodell should decide on punishment and hear the appeals.

It is too bad the players on the other 31 teams didn't feel it was important to have an impartial appeal process. I can't say that I feel bad for them now.

They didn't vote against it because player health, safety and pay were MUCH larger factors to them. To get something in that CBA, you need to give something. If I'm a player working hard, following the rules and staying out of trouble, why would I want to help players who can't stay out of their own way and are constantly in trouble. The players may not like the process, but I'm sure they would rather have this than give up something else like increased pay and a decreased preseason practice schedule.

Assuming the courts don't change anything on their own, the players won't change it.

If there were other issues more important and you conceded on this point then don't complain about it afterwards.

What is the point in making concessions if your going to go to court to try and override the process you agreed to?

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Serious question, Sabertooth: how many of those 13 have you been alive for?

What does that matter? All championships are in the past by their very nature.

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I just realized, we are holding Tom Brady to a significantly higher standard then Hillary Clinton

You are correct. Hillary should get a 4 game suspension as well.

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Serious question, Sabertooth: how many of those 13 have you been alive for?

What does that matter? All championships are in the past by their very nature.

Because gloating about something that happened before you were alive seems, um, kinda dumb. If you weren't there at the time to celebrate and enjoy those 13 championships, then what are your bragging about? That the team in the city you probably just happened to be born in or around, was successful when you were still an urge in your daddy's pants? Congrats. :lol:

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess you've only been alive for two of them, which means your team, over the course of your lifetime, is equal to the Ravens and Broncos.

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Releasing Bradys testimony was simply a PR stunt by the NFLPA. An effective one, no doubt, but it has no impact on the question before the judge.

You realize that the federal judge ordered everything unsealed?

Sure it was unsealed.

That doesnt change the fact it has no impact on the decision before the judge.

It was a smart move by the NFLPA but the only thing it sways is public perception.

Edited by treat88

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Releasing Bradys testimony was simply a PR stunt by the NFLPA. An effective one, no doubt, but it has no impact on the question before the judge.

You realize that the federal judge ordered everything unsealed?

Sure it was unsealed.

That doesnt change the fact it has no impact on the decision before the judge.

It was a smart move by the NFLPA but the only thing it sways is public perception.

One could argue this whole debacle is being driven by public perception.

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Releasing Bradys testimony was simply a PR stunt by the NFLPA. An effective one, no doubt, but it has no impact on the question before the judge.

You realize that the federal judge ordered everything unsealed?

Sure it was unsealed.

That doesnt change the fact it has no impact on the decision before the judge.

It was a smart move by the NFLPA but the only thing it sways is public perception.

One could argue this whole debacle is being driven by public perception.

Yeah, that and...you know, the Patriots deflating their footballs illegally.

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Releasing Bradys testimony was simply a PR stunt by the NFLPA. An effective one, no doubt, but it has no impact on the question before the judge.

You realize that the federal judge ordered everything unsealed?

Sure it was unsealed.

That doesnt change the fact it has no impact on the decision before the judge.

It was a smart move by the NFLPA but the only thing it sways is public perception.

One could argue this whole debacle is being driven by public perception.

Yeah, that and...you know, the Patriots deflating their footballs illegally.

Well, yeah, that's just like your opinion, man.

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I just realized, we are holding Tom Brady to a significantly higher standard then Hillary Clinton

Okay look, the Hitler comparisons were already stretching it, but this is going too far.

Edited by IvanKaramazov

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I just realized, we are holding Tom Brady to a significantly higher standard then Hillary Clinton

Only an idiot would do that - however even after all that's happened Tom is still WAY more trustworthy than Hildabeast

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Jim Donaldson is reporting owners are starting to lose faith in Goodell with the recent release of info:

http://m.providencejournal.com/article/20150808/SPORTS/150809364/13988/NEWS

That's an interesting "news" article.

It cites un-named league sources telling him that "a significant number" of owners are worried about where the case is heading.

While I agree with the article's premise (reduce suspension to 1 game, get this over with), to pretend like this is "news" is laughable. This is 1 guy printing his opinion, and backing it up with vague, anonymous sources.

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Jim Donaldson is reporting owners are starting to lose faith in Goodell with the recent release of info:

http://m.providencejournal.com/article/20150808/SPORTS/150809364/13988/NEWS

That's an interesting "news" article.

It cites un-named league sources telling him that "a significant number" of owners are worried about where the case is heading.

While I agree with the article's premise (reduce suspension to 1 game, get this over with), to pretend like this is "news" is laughable. This is 1 guy printing his opinion, and backing it up with vague, anonymous sources.

Sounds familiar

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Serious question, Sabertooth: how many of those 13 have you been alive for?

What does that matter? All championships are in the past by their very nature.

Because gloating about something that happened before you were alive seems, um, kinda dumb. If you weren't there at the time to celebrate and enjoy those 13 championships, then what are your bragging about? That the team in the city you probably just happened to be born in or around, was successful when you were still an urge in your daddy's pants? Congrats. :lol:

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess you've only been alive for two of them, which means your team, over the course of your lifetime, is equal to the Ravens and Broncos.

Gloating about the exploits of other men is dumb anyway. But here we sit.

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Jim Donaldson is reporting owners are starting to lose faith in Goodell with the recent release of info:

http://m.providencejournal.com/article/20150808/SPORTS/150809364/13988/NEWS

That's an interesting "news" article.

It cites un-named league sources telling him that "a significant number" of owners are worried about where the case is heading.

While I agree with the article's premise (reduce suspension to 1 game, get this over with), to pretend like this is "news" is laughable. This is 1 guy printing his opinion, and backing it up with vague, anonymous sources.

Kinda like the vague anonymous sources that told Mort that 10 of 11 were significantly under inflated. Which we know is now not true?

But all the haters took that as gospel and ran with it.

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Jim Donaldson is reporting owners are starting to lose faith in Goodell with the recent release of info:

http://m.providencejournal.com/article/20150808/SPORTS/150809364/13988/NEWS

That's an interesting "news" article.

It cites un-named league sources telling him that "a significant number" of owners are worried about where the case is heading.

While I agree with the article's premise (reduce suspension to 1 game, get this over with), to pretend like this is "news" is laughable. This is 1 guy printing his opinion, and backing it up with vague, anonymous sources.

Kinda like the vague anonymous sources that told Mort that 10 of 11 were significantly under inflated. Which we know is now not true?

But all the haters took that as gospel and ran with it.

Wait...so it's OK when the vague anonymous sources are NE-biased?

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Jim Donaldson is reporting owners are starting to lose faith in Goodell with the recent release of info:

http://m.providencejournal.com/article/20150808/SPORTS/150809364/13988/NEWS

That's an interesting "news" article.

It cites un-named league sources telling him that "a significant number" of owners are worried about where the case is heading.

While I agree with the article's premise (reduce suspension to 1 game, get this over with), to pretend like this is "news" is laughable. This is 1 guy printing his opinion, and backing it up with vague, anonymous sources.

Kinda like the vague anonymous sources that told Mort that 10 of 11 were significantly under inflated. Which we know is now not true?

But all the haters took that as gospel and ran with it.

Wait...so it's OK when the vague anonymous sources are NE-biased?

Yeah it's the same thing. League officials lying to a high profile media member to shape the publics opinion. And some guy saying a few owners aren't happy. Give me a break.

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http://www.deflategatedeflated.com/

Great read, the haters won't bother reading but this guy breaks down everything. Even has pictures of the gauges used, how Walt Anderson couldn't tell the difference between gauges is mind blowing.

That's an interesting read. Seems like it was from almost 2 months ago (prior to Brady's appeal).

Serious question: If this site scientifically proves NE was innocent, as it aims to do, why do we think Brady's lawyers didn't present this information (or something like it) during his appeal? They challenged Exponent with an ECONOMIST, not a scientist. If this site had legitimate scientific data, don't you think Tom Brady's highly-paid legal team would be aware of it & would have utilized it?

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Jim Donaldson is reporting owners are starting to lose faith in Goodell with the recent release of info:

http://m.providencejournal.com/article/20150808/SPORTS/150809364/13988/NEWS

That's an interesting "news" article.

It cites un-named league sources telling him that "a significant number" of owners are worried about where the case is heading.

While I agree with the article's premise (reduce suspension to 1 game, get this over with), to pretend like this is "news" is laughable. This is 1 guy printing his opinion, and backing it up with vague, anonymous sources.

Kinda like the vague anonymous sources that told Mort that 10 of 11 were significantly under inflated. Which we know is now not true?

But all the haters took that as gospel and ran with it.

Wait...so it's OK when the vague anonymous sources are NE-biased?

Yeah it's the same thing. League officials lying to a high profile media member to shape the publics opinion. And some guy saying a few owners aren't happy. Give me a break.

You're the one who made the comparison, not me. Either they are the same thing, or they are not. Don't compare them when it suits your position, if you want to discard the comparison if it doesn't. That just doesn't make sense. Give me a break.

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Jim Donaldson is reporting owners are starting to lose faith in Goodell with the recent release of info:

http://m.providencejournal.com/article/20150808/SPORTS/150809364/13988/NEWS

That's an interesting "news" article.

It cites un-named league sources telling him that "a significant number" of owners are worried about where the case is heading.

While I agree with the article's premise (reduce suspension to 1 game, get this over with), to pretend like this is "news" is laughable. This is 1 guy printing his opinion, and backing it up with vague, anonymous sources.

Kinda like the vague anonymous sources that told Mort that 10 of 11 were significantly under inflated. Which we know is now not true?

But all the haters took that as gospel and ran with it.

Wait...so it's OK when the vague anonymous sources are NE-biased?

Yeah it's the same thing. League officials lying to a high profile media member to shape the publics opinion. And some guy saying a few owners aren't happy. Give me a break.

Isn't that exactly what the Patriots organization has done or is doing right now? Lying to the media and making other owners unhappy? Here's a thought exercise for the Pats fans: every time you're about to accuse the NFL of shady business through one of these conspiracies, ask yourself if the Patriots are accused of, or potentially have done the same thing. If so, then it probably isn't a good idea to try to use it as a counterpoint on how terrible the league has behaved.

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Jim Donaldson is reporting owners are starting to lose faith in Goodell with the recent release of info:

http://m.providencejournal.com/article/20150808/SPORTS/150809364/13988/NEWS

That's an interesting "news" article.

It cites un-named league sources telling him that "a significant number" of owners are worried about where the case is heading.

While I agree with the article's premise (reduce suspension to 1 game, get this over with), to pretend like this is "news" is laughable. This is 1 guy printing his opinion, and backing it up with vague, anonymous sources.

Kinda like the vague anonymous sources that told Mort that 10 of 11 were significantly under inflated. Which we know is now not true?

But all the haters took that as gospel and ran with it.

Wait...so it's OK when the vague anonymous sources are NE-biased?

Yeah it's the same thing. League officials lying to a high profile media member to shape the publics opinion. And some guy saying a few owners aren't happy. Give me a break.

Isn't that exactly what the Patriots organization has done or is doing right now? Lying to the media and making other owners unhappy? Here's a thought exercise for the Pats fans: every time you're about to accuse the NFL of shady business through one of these conspiracies, ask yourself if the Patriots are accused of, or potentially have done the same thing. If so, then it probably isn't a good idea to try to use it as a counterpoint on how terrible the league has behaved.

I'm not sure that reasoning is going to work.

On the previous page, one poster posted (paraphrasing) it's irrelevant if Brady lied, because Goodell misrepresented what Brady said. So, Goodell lies=bad, Brady lies=doesn't matter.

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http://www.deflategatedeflated.com/

Great read, the haters won't bother reading but this guy breaks down everything. Even has pictures of the gauges used, how Walt Anderson couldn't tell the difference between gauges is mind blowing.

That's an interesting read. Seems like it was from almost 2 months ago (prior to Brady's appeal).

Serious question: If this site scientifically proves NE was innocent, as it aims to do, why do we think Brady's lawyers didn't present this information (or something like it) during his appeal? They challenged Exponent with an ECONOMIST, not a scientist. If this site had legitimate scientific data, don't you think Tom Brady's highly-paid legal team would be aware of it & would have utilized it?

That's the point. There are too many variables and unknowns that would affect the PSI in any given game. Greenspan was brought in to point out the different factors that could affect the outcome and to point out the flaws with the Exponent report. You could probably get 10 different scientists together and they would get 10 different outcomes.

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Do you see yourself as Perry Mason, Sherlock Holmes, Hercule Poirot or Inspector Clouseau?

In Goodell's decision he actually says "Mr. Brady testified that it is his practice to destroy his cell phone"...

So did you lie when you said he said "always"?

Do you realize how many opinions have been formed on misinformation or simply outright bias?

Do you realize there is a transcript of Bradys appeal?

Maybe you should re-read the transcript. Dropkick is correct.

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I would be shocked if Brady agreed to a settlement that included any missed games.

He hasn't waivered once in his innocence and this whole thing quickly became less about whether he was or wasn't guilty and more about attacking his character and to a less extent his legacy.

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Do you see yourself as Perry Mason, Sherlock Holmes, Hercule Poirot or Inspector Clouseau?

In Goodell's decision he actually says "Mr. Brady testified that it is his practice to destroy his cell phone"...

So did you lie when you said he said "always"?

Do you realize how many opinions have been formed on misinformation or simply outright bias?

Do you realize there is a transcript of Bradys appeal?

Maybe you should re-read the transcript. Dropkick is correct.

a

Do you see yourself as Perry Mason, Sherlock Holmes, Hercule Poirot or Inspector Clouseau?

In Goodell's decision he actually says "Mr. Brady testified that it is his practice to destroy his cell phone"...

So did you lie when you said he said "always"?

Do you realize how many opinions have been formed on misinformation or simply outright bias?

Do you realize there is a transcript of Bradys appeal?

Maybe you should re-read the transcript. Dropkick is correct.

No, he isn't; maybe you should re-read it. Or, you could go back to post #13381, where I posted this:

Appeals transcript link

http://www.scribd.com/doc/273547523/Tom-Brady-Appeal-Hearing#page=20

The following appears on page 87 of the transcript, page 26 from that link (it has 4 pages of transcript per screen page):

His (Brady's) lawyers asks him:

Q. Okay. Now, have you had a practice, and tell me when it began, how long ago, of destroying or, I guess, asking somebody to destroy or get rid of your cell phones periodically?

A. I think for as long as I have had a cell phone.

He goes on later to explain, after saying he has contacts, pics, and other info he wouldn't want anyone else to get, specifically saying that he has the phones destroyed (page 91 from the appeals transcript, page 27 from the link provided) :

A. So I have always told the the guy who swaps them out for me, make sure you get rid of the phone. And what I mean is destroy the phone so that no one can ever, you know, reset it or do something where I feel the information is available to anybody.

There's no ambiguity there, and that is text directly from the appeals, from Brady's testimony, under oath.

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I would be shocked if Brady agreed to a settlement that included any missed games.

He hasn't waivered once in his innocence and this whole thing quickly became less about whether he was or wasn't guilty and more about attacking his character and to a less extent his legacy.

That's not in his hands anymore is it? Isn't it what the Judge says goes now?

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I would be shocked if Brady agreed to a settlement that included any missed games.

He hasn't waivered once in his innocence and this whole thing quickly became less about whether he was or wasn't guilty and more about attacking his character and to a less extent his legacy.

That's not in his hands anymore is it? Isn't it what the Judge says goes now?

An out of court settlement, the court case is about whether Goodell acted within the bounds of the CBA.

If they attempted to settle it would have nothing to do with the current case, other than dropping it. The settlement would be about the punishment Brady would accept.

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