sho nuff

2016 Green Bay Packers thread

3,833 posts in this topic

21 hours ago, The Claymaker said:

I would love to see us add AP, if we could get him on a friendly deal. Playing in that offense, looking at 10-15 touches a game, I realize people are down on him from his last season performance, but I think we would change that and he would add some team speed and toughness. I would still like to see us add a scat back blazer type guy, but i just think Peterson would fit right in and be an awesome addition for a couple seasons. 

 

I'm guessing they can find someone cheaper and less demanding to get 2 ypc than Peterson. Pass.

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Yeah, maybe they can bring a young stud like Kniles Davis in, or keep that heffer back there, who loves mama's cooking more than playing football. People seem to forget Minny had a horrible O-line last year and the offense compared to GB's is no comparison at all. Completely different situation, we wouldn't have to rely on him saving the day every game. 

I really hope this happens now, having a stud RB who actually loves the game, AP has got plenty left in the tank in mho. Anyway, as I said I doubt it will happen, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. 

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1 hour ago, The Claymaker said:

Yeah, maybe they can bring a young stud like Kniles Davis in, or keep that heffer back there, who loves mama's cooking more than playing football. People seem to forget Minny had a horrible O-line last year and the offense compared to GB's is no comparison at all. Completely different situation, we wouldn't have to rely on him saving the day every game. 

I really hope this happens now, having a stud RB who actually loves the game, AP has got plenty left in the tank in mho. Anyway, as I said I doubt it will happen, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. 

No need to get all bent out of shape over it.

One could say Knile Davis offers as much upside as a 25 year old back with low miles as AP who has high miles, is well past his prime and very expensive. You mention Knile Davis and Lacy as if to say, "well, he can't be worse than these two." And you're could be right, however you're not. Lacy was on pace for a career year before he got hurt. Also, either one of them would come substantially cheaper than AP, hence less risk

AP would be a disaster in GB. The guy hasn't run for 100 yards since Christmas 2015. He's played a total of 20 out of the last possible 48 games. You know it's bad when you're benched late 2016 for Jerick McKinnon! No one ever got better at RB by signing an over-30, past his prime, recently often injured RB. I honestly feel better if we signed Jamaal Charles, and I hate that idea. 

But I guess... signing a guy who has been terrible and injured 2 of the last 3 years, refuses to take a pay cut from his 18 million dollar salary (so he'd likely need to be paid like 8-12 million as a FA I would imagine), and just looks terrible is a great idea

Ted, sign Jacquizz Rodgers, draft Mixon round 3, and thank me later. Problem solved

Edited by Dr. Brew
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1 hour ago, Bronco Billy said:

 

I'm guessing they can find someone cheaper and less demanding to get 2 ypc than Peterson. Pass.

I hear James Starks is available

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1 hour ago, The Claymaker said:

Guess we shall since it looks like we are the top landing spot mentioned at this time, still a lot can happen between now and kickoff.

You guys were probably the same ones two years ago talking about cutting Adams, because he had an awful year, now this year he was a beast most the year. 

Do you follow Vikings news at all?  Explain to me how you see AP as a good fit.  The news on the Vikings talk radio all the time was the struggle with Teddy B. liking to play shotgun and how Adrian Peterson doesn't like a shotgun formation and plays far better when the QB is under center.  Green Bay runs the majority of the time from shot gun.  I think AP can be a good RB yet if he can find a team to run an offense around his strengths but that isn't in Green Bay.  He isn't a fit for their offense.

How do you figure Green Bay is the top landing spot.  News from Western WI coming out of Minnesota is he seems very interested in the Giants.  Funny how you want to key hole everyone in this thread but I don't see where 1- you think Green Bay is the top landing spot and 2-how you envision him fitting into a team that runs out of a shotgun formation the majority of the time.  Please explain.

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55 minutes ago, Warhogs said:

Do you follow Vikings news at all?  Explain to me how you see AP as a good fit.  The news on the Vikings talk radio all the time was the struggle with Teddy B. liking to play shotgun and how Adrian Peterson doesn't like a shotgun formation and plays far better when the QB is under center.  Green Bay runs the majority of the time from shot gun.  I think AP can be a good RB yet if he can find a team to run an offense around his strengths but that isn't in Green Bay.  He isn't a fit for their offense.

How do you figure Green Bay is the top landing spot.  News from Western WI coming out of Minnesota is he seems very interested in the Giants.  Funny how you want to key hole everyone in this thread but I don't see where 1- you think Green Bay is the top landing spot and 2-how you envision him fitting into a team that runs out of a shotgun formation the majority of the time.  Please explain.

Because he wishes it to be. So it must be true. 

I agree with a lot of what you said. AP does not do well on a team that runs plays from the shotgun and that is primarily what they run. 
I have buddies/contacts within MIN GB and Chargers that I talk to via text regarding injuries and rumors. My guy in GB has the best knowledge regarding practice participation and so forth. MIN I don't get a whole lot out of him because I just am not real close with him, our conversations pick up in preseason but die off during the season. my GB friend tells me no one is even discussing AP. Guy in MIN hasn't heard GB in the rumor mill as a landing spot for AP. I've heard NYG as well. I think that actually makes a good amount of sense. GB does not at all.

Edited by Dr. Brew

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Just for point of reference I am a Packers fan and have grown up a Packer fan.  I live in WI but near the MN border so I hear a lot of Vikings talk on the radio as I listen to KFAN in the car each day.  Just on what I have heard on the radio over the last several years I can't see AP being a good fit in Green Bay.  Then add that this team needs to pay out to retain/replace some OL, they need pass rushers, they need CB.  I just can't see them spending money to bring AP in.  None of it would seem to make sense.

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43 minutes ago, Warhogs said:

Just for point of reference I am a Packers fan and have grown up a Packer fan.  I live in WI but near the MN border so I hear a lot of Vikings talk on the radio as I listen to KFAN in the car each day.  Just on what I have heard on the radio over the last several years I can't see AP being a good fit in Green Bay.  Then add that this team needs to pay out to retain/replace some OL, they need pass rushers, they need CB.  I just can't see them spending money to bring AP in.  None of it would seem to make sense.

It makes zero sense. We have 40 some million of cap space, but see King Prawn's post below... see how fast that gets used up:

On 2/19/2017 at 8:33 AM, KingPrawn said:

My off-season check list:

Resign Cook (Approx. $3 mil), Perry ($8-9 mil), Lang ($7-8 mil), Hyde ($2 mil), Lacy ($2 mil) and then a couple of the cheaper guys like Tretter, Barclay or Jones (another $3 mil total). That's approx. $26 mil in cap space. Set aside another $4 mil for rookies that'll make the team so we are looking at around $14-15 mil leftover for FAs and extensions. Will probably extend Burnett and Adams somewhere in there. Maybe Linsley. Maybe leave us room to sign one free agent at about $6-8 million. Pretty much eliminates all the big name guys but TT sits out the 1st round of free agency anyway. Not sure who we would be able to afford on this list:

Top 10 Free Agent CBs

We absolutely need to address the CB position in free agency. I would not be comfortable going in to next season at all with this years CBs and a rookie or two.

So you have the ask yourself, would you rather spend 6-8 million on a Cornerback to fix the biggest glaring problem on our team, or spend that on an aged over the hill running back that doesn't fit the offensive system? It makes absolutely zero sense. Maybe in Madden world it does, but not real life. 

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Definitely not bent out of shape over anything I read on the internet. As I said, we all have the right to our own opinion and like any of you know any more than anyone else? Stop trying to shove your opinions on other people. I also said, if you can read, which I certainly question at this point, it would need to be a friendly deal for us to bite, as in incentive laden. Hey maybe you can tell your "inside" man to make sure they don't make any offers to AP, that will fix me! 

Honestly not looking to fight or argue over opinions. You are more than welcome to disagree with anything I say, and I will do the same. Do you think what we say will somehow influence what the team does? Obviously it won't, its the off season and I was looking at some AP highlights and I just think the type of player he is, he has something left to prove after a crappy season and if we could get him on the cheap to share carries with someone, I think he would prove beneficial to our team. That's my opinion on that matter. Obviously I expect the bulk of our picks and money to be spent on DB's and DE's cause we are lacking in both badly. 

Edited by The Claymaker

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51 minutes ago, The Claymaker said:

Definitely not bent out of shape over anything I read on the internet. As I said, we all have the right to our own opinion and like any of you know any more than anyone else? Stop trying to shove your opinions on other people. I also said, if you can read, which I certainly question at this point, it would need to be a friendly deal for us to bite, as in incentive laden. Hey maybe you can tell your "inside" man to make sure they don't make any offers to AP, that will fix me! 

Cute. Without getting too specific to jeopardize his job, my buddy works within rehabilitation of the Packers organlization. (I feel like I've said this over and over, so I apologize to everyone for having to repeat it again) So he doesn't know everything and anything outside of injuries and recovery he is just hearing through office chatter. Which is probably more accurate than my office chatter. In general, our communication dies down fairly well in the springtime. I am pretty busy and I might see him at a continuing education course up in Green Bay or a mentoring program each of us participate in. I can always reach out, so if anyone has a question about a rumor they may have heard I'd be more than willing to ask. Take my knowledge for what it's worth, or don't. I really don't care. Some people appreciate it while some don't and I stopped caring about the don't a long time ago. It's not about pushing my opinions on people. It's about correcting people who say things that are flat our wrong or uninformed, especially when I text someone I know within a particular organization and they come back with "Wtf where did you hear that?!" 

 

Back to the topic, you still haven't mentioned why you said:

3 hours ago, The Claymaker said:

Guess we shall since it looks like we are the top landing spot mentioned at this time

Where did that come from?

On 2/20/2017 at 2:34 PM, The Claymaker said:

i just think Peterson would fit right in and be an awesome addition for a couple seasons. 

Why?

Edited by Dr. Brew

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6 minutes ago, Dr. Brew said:

Cute. Without getting too specific to jeopardize his job, my buddy works within rehabilitation of the Packers organlization. (I feel like I've said this over and over, so I apologize to everyone for having to repeat it again) So he doesn't know everything and anything outside of injuries and recovery he is just hearing through office chatter. Which is probably more accurate than my office chatter. In general, our communication dies down fairly well in the springtime. I am pretty busy and I might see him at a continuing education course up in Green Bay or a mentoring program each of us participate in. I can always reach out, so if anyone has a question about a rumor they may have heard I'd be more than willing to ask. Take my knowledge for what it's worth, or don't. I really don't care. Some people appreciate it while some don't and I stopped caring about the don't a long time ago.

 

Back to the topic, you still haven't mentioned why you said:

Where did that come from?

Why?

So, the day after I posted my comment, I read on an NFL insider update/ or may have popped on my CBS app that GB was currently the top spot/highest chance of an AP signing and they listed it in order and we were quite a bit higher chance than anyone else. As I have said all along, I doubt it will happen, but I personally am hopeful. Why? You may ask, because I think hes got plenty left in the tank, he is a machine and next season he will be playing with a chip on his shoulder because everyone says he is done. Do I want quite possibly the best pure RB in the NFL the past 15-20 years on our team? I think so. Even in a 10 -15 touches per game role, we have not had a RB with his power and speed since when? ever maybe? He is the kind of back that can close the deal and we don't have that now, if Aaron fails, we fail. 

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I hear Anthony Dorsett is available

 

.

Edited by Bronco Billy
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1 hour ago, The Claymaker said:

So, the day after I posted my comment, I read on an NFL insider update/ or may have popped on my CBS app that GB was currently the top spot/highest chance of an AP signing and they listed it in order and we were quite a bit higher chance than anyone else. As I have said all along, I doubt it will happen, but I personally am hopeful. Why? You may ask, because I think hes got plenty left in the tank, he is a machine and next season he will be playing with a chip on his shoulder because everyone says he is done. Do I want quite possibly the best pure RB in the NFL the past 15-20 years on our team? I think so. Even in a 10 -15 touches per game role, we have not had a RB with his power and speed since when? ever maybe? He is the kind of back that can close the deal and we don't have that now, if Aaron fails, we fail. 

If Aaron fails, we fail yes. If Aaron fails and we have AP, we still fail. AP is done. I'd love AP on our team 4 years ago, but he has shown nothing that would indicate he has anything left to be a bell cow. Personally I don't think 6-10 million or whatever it'd take to get him is worth 10-15 carries a game (and do we ever have a RB who gets a whole lot more than that anyways? We are not a running team).

I see AP being a decent part time guy, but his days of being a bell cow are over. If you think a part time RB who gets, what you say, 10-15 carries a game will save us from failing when Aaron fails then I guess you really think AP is going to be flat out amazing averaging a career best 7-8 yards per carry. 

We can save this conversation for a year from now I suppose. Because debating it is worthless, neither one of us will be right until January 2018. 

I think we all can agree that GB needs to do something at RB. Lacy has been fined for being overweight already I hear, so that's not good. I was in favor of bringing him back but now I am in the boat of just trying something else. I really feel like we should go CB/LB/RB in our first 3 picks. CB and RB are super deep this draft

Edited by Dr. Brew

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Is John Brockington still alive?  Of course his knees probably would be considered weapons in today's game and he'd constantly get flagged for targeting...

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33 minutes ago, Bronco Billy said:

Is John Brockington still alive?  Of course his knees probably would be considered weapons in today's game and he'd constantly get flagged for targeting...

Yes, 68 years old

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17 hours ago, The Claymaker said:

Guess we shall since it looks like we are the top landing spot mentioned at this time, still a lot can happen between now and kickoff.

You guys were probably the same ones two years ago talking about cutting Adams, because he had an awful year, now this year he was a beast most the year. 

I honestly don't get the comparisons of Damarious Randall to Davante Adams.

Different positions.  Different attitudes.  The only similarity is they both had rough sophomore campaigns.  

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How can you fine a player who is a free agent? 

I still think Lacy can play a role.  Maybe not.  Doesn't matter much what I think.  

 

 

Edited by Sabertooth

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2 hours ago, Sabertooth said:

How can you fine a player who is a free agent? 

I still think Lacy can play a role.  Maybe not.  Doesn't matter much what I think.  

 

 

My understanding is a player is under contract until March when FA begins. That is why teams cannot communicate with impending FAs yet because that would be considered tampering. When you factor in things like health insurance etc, players just don't stop getting that in January when their seasons are over. I believe a contract goes through March. However this is the article I was referencing, although it doesn't say he was fined this offseason, so it looks like I misspoke. It does say that during the season he put more weight back on however

http://gnb.247sports.com/Bolt/Report-Eddie-Lacy-was-fined-by-Packers-for-weight-issues--51285134

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17 hours ago, Bronco Billy said:

I hear Anthony Dorsett is available

 

.

Any relation to Tony ;).

 

I do not want an expensive, controversial prima donna so far past his prime that he makes Harlan Hucklebee's stat lines look good

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13 hours ago, Sabertooth said:

I honestly don't get the comparisons of Damarious Randall to Davante Adams.

Different positions.  Different attitudes.  The only similarity is they both had rough sophomore campaigns.  

? I never mention Randall, but go back and read how many haters we had after Adams had his bad second season. But a lot of Adams love this season, just saying players can bounce back. 

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3 hours ago, The Claymaker said:

? I never mention Randall, but go back and read how many haters we had after Adams had his bad second season. But a lot of Adams love this season, just saying players can bounce back. 

They can bounce back.  I don't think Randall does.  But I've been wrong before.  Ted really needs to give CB a look in FA.  Hope he does.  

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16 hours ago, The Claymaker said:

? I never mention Randall, but go back and read how many haters we had after Adams had his bad second season. But a lot of Adams love this season, just saying players can bounce back. 

So we are comparing people being down on Adams from a year ago... a second, going on 3rd year player looking to take that typical "3rd year WR leap" who had a very disappointing first two seasons to a 31 year old running back with 2400 career carries, and hasn't done anything significant for the last 18 months.

Practically twins. 

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1 hour ago, Dr. Brew said:

So we are comparing people being down on Adams from a year ago... a second, going on 3rd year player looking to take that typical "3rd year WR leap" who had a very disappointing first two seasons to a 31 year old running back with 2400 career carries, and hasn't done anything significant for the last 18 months.

Practically twins. 

I personally never compared any player to anyone else, but I did say players can bounce back. Perhaps looking on the team you root for, for a 30+ year old player that just "bounced" back into a comeback player of the year award, may be helpful? Or do you think Jordy still sucks and really is just a shell of his former self. Please read before "trying" to be a comedian. Thank you 

Edited by The Claymaker

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15 hours ago, Sabertooth said:

They can bounce back.  I don't think Randall does.  But I've been wrong before.  Ted really needs to give CB a look in FA.  Hope he does.  

We can only hope he does, but I agree on Randall its going to be a huge uphill battle, that guy was just so incredibly bad, hard to imagine that changing. 

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15 minutes ago, The Claymaker said:

I personally never compared any player to anyone else, but I did say players can bounce back. Perhaps looking on the team you root for, for a 30+ year old player that just "bounced" back into a comeback player of the year award, may be helpful? Or do you think Jordy still sucks and really is just a shell of his former self. Please read before "trying" to be a comedian. Thank you 

Again, we are comparing a very used running back who is a year away from being in the top 25 all time of career carries to a wide receiver. Two completely different positions in the NFL with two completely different "life expectancies." Many WRs do quite well into their mid to late 30s. Cannot say the same about RBs

We can continue comparing apples to carrots I suppose... Janikowski is 38 and quite successful. I suppose using that as an example we could see if Ahman Green would want to play. He seems well rested. I suppose AP could have 7 strong seasons left in him, because it happens all the time at RB

 

 

FWIW: Jordy is going to significantly decline over the next 2 seasons IMO. I have several reasons for that thought, and I sincerely hope that Adams can be more than a slot type guy and step in as a WR1. We may very well need him to be in 2 short seasons. 

Edited by Dr. Brew

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Once and for all, I understand you don't think Peterson can play any longer, won't fit in, has nothing left in the tank, would be a terrible player to add... I get it and strongly disagree. Lets just agree to disagree on this and move forward. My opinion is not changing regardless of anyone else's opinion or comments, But I also feel it's a long shot for us to sign him and this will probably always be a non-issue/thing. No one will ever be proven right or wrong regardless of where he lands if it is not in GB. 

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37 minutes ago, The Claymaker said:

Once and for all, I understand you don't think Peterson can play any longer, won't fit in, has nothing left in the tank, would be a terrible player to add... I get it and strongly disagree. Lets just agree to disagree on this and move forward. My opinion is not changing regardless of anyone else's opinion or comments, But I also feel it's a long shot for us to sign him and this will probably always be a non-issue/thing. No one will ever be proven right or wrong regardless of where he lands if it is not in GB. 

I'm just pointing out your flawed logic. Yes, any player can rebound any time. Yes, there are old RBs who do well after having lots of mileage (I've been waiting for you to use Frank Gore as an example, not the completely different players/positions/scenarios in Jordy Nelson and Davante Adams...). 

To say that a 31 year old WR has a good year so a 31 year old RB can also is just ridiculous. By that logic one could say 39 year old Tom Brady just won the superbowl so all 39 year old RBs can win a superbowl for their team too. 

 

I'd love to discuss why you think AP will rebound. But I just can't seem to follow your line of thinking. You've said "he will play with a chip on his shoulder," which I really don't understand what chip you're talking about. I mean I suppose he could be angry at everyone that he got hurt 2 of the last 3 seasons. Or maybe he's mad at Goodell from something that happened 2 years ago. If that's your logic then technically he should have had a chip on his shoulder this season, and if that's the case I want nothing to do with that chip because he looked awful. 
You've also said that he can rebound because, afterall, a WR for the Packers broke out in his third season after 2 disappointing seasons. Again, ridiculous because you're comparing a guy past his prime to a guy just getting into his. Then you at least compared 2 guys the same age and tried to use that to justify it. But you can hopefully now see how dumb that logic is when you are comparing a WR to a RB. I would hope you understand that RB receives more wear and tear over their careers than a WR. 

So I guess I will make a reasonable argument for you...

 

Frank Gore is 10th all time in rushing attempts for his career, is 33 years old, and just ran for 1000 yards. So why can't AP do it since he is, arguably, a better RB than Gore? The difference, IMO, is that since AP's career year in 2012 he has had a significant drop in performance. The last 4 consecutive seasons make up 4/5 AP's worst seasons for YPC. Comparing to Frank Gore, he has been rather consistent in yards and YPC until the last 2 seasons. AP could very well play 16 games next season and not crack 1200 yards. Is that worth what it would cost to get him? Frank Gore did that making 4 million. AP would need a lot more than that I would imagine.

I do think AP may be a significant contributor to the right team, but his days of being a bellcow and running for 1400 yards a season are over. That's the big difference between Gore and AP. Gore was never a 1500 yards a season guy. He always ran for 1100-1200. AP is so up and down. 

Bottom line here is that AP is very unlikely to run for 1500+ yards. 1100, maybe. Is that significantly more than what Ty Montgomery would get? Ty is built a lot like AP TBH. Ty Montgomery played 11 games at RB. He got 5 or more carries in only 7 games, rushed for 423 yards in those 7 games. One would imagine if he were the RB1 he would get at least 5 carries a game in 2017, correct? So if we take his average over 7 games receiving RB1 type carries, he would be projected at 967 yards. 
Eddie Lacy, lard and all, was on pace to have 1150 yards last season. I've heard he is likely to take a 1-2 year prove it deal in the range of 2-3 million.
The question we have to ask is, is it worth 8, 10, 12 million to bring in AP for an additional 200 yards to Montgomery? Does AP have higher upside than Eddie Lacy? They are probably about 10 million dollars apart. Let's even assume AP will run for 1500 yards next season. And Eddie Lacy runs for 1200. Is it worth the additional 10 million for 300 yards? I would argue no. 
If you look at it from a "money ball" standpoint, it's really not necessary nor is it cost effective. 

Edited by Dr. Brew

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Wow dude, you got issues. But I am done on this particular subject, you are free to keep yapping all you want. I said my piece and my opinion and your opinion doesn't effect that. Since at this very moment neither of us are even remotely right or wrong. 

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1 hour ago, The Claymaker said:

We can only hope he does, but I agree on Randall its going to be a huge uphill battle, that guy was just so incredibly bad, hard to imagine that changing. 

It isn't that he lacks the legs.  He lacks the heart.  I don't know how you could coach guts into a player.  He plays scared.  

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#### ADP.  Child abuser.  Fumbler.  Nah.  

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1 hour ago, The Claymaker said:

Wow dude, you got issues. But I am done on this particular subject, you are free to keep yapping all you want. I said my piece and my opinion and your opinion doesn't effect that. Since at this very moment neither of us are even remotely right or wrong. 

I'm not the one who made a poor suggestion and backed it up with flawed logic

 

The only issues I have are with other people's tissues :thumbup:

Edited by Dr. Brew

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Blocked my first fellow Packers fan. Don't like be stalked on a message board and definitely hate people who think they know it all. 

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