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Biabreakable

DeVante Parker Miami Dolphins Signs a 2 year deal to stay with the Dolphins for some reason

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34 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

Watch the clip and tell me if he gets open or not.

It is always good to check your opinions against others for things that you may have missed.

Whatever process was used to determine that Parker is not good needs to be re-examined.

He is open sometimes in those clips but a lot of the times he isn't. Also those are his targets, Harmon looks at every route. Have you looked at Matt's work? It's excellent. 

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He doesn't look at every route of every game. Eight games is a usual sample size and honestly a full 16 game sample size isn't enough to draw any real conclusion in my opinion. But as I have heard Matt say on the audible or something he would rather have a life than to chart a full sample size of games.

For Parker who was dealing with two injuries didn't play in that much in the first 10 games, so maybe he could have fit all of his games from 2016 into his busy schedule. Parker only played on 468 offensive snaps last season.

2015 snap counts.

As you can see Parker didn't really get worked into the offense until the 11th game of the season. He did get more work in game 3 against Buffalo as they were being blown out. He had a total of 114 offensive snaps during the first 10 games. This is 24% of his plays. He had 8 targets during this time frame, seven of them in the Buffalo game. How useful is it to chart his routes during this time frame? 

Parker was a rookie.

His coaches got fired.

If you watch his college games that adds more to the overall evaluation of the player. I have done that several times. Sounds like you have also 80's as you liked him a lot going into the NFL draft.

Parker certainly needs to work on his route running, that was a legit criticism of his skill set as a college player also. Many people talked about him not getting as much separation on his routes as they would like, yet Parker would win anyways because of ability to win with the ball in the air.. He demonstrates the skill and ability to improve as a route runner over time. He is not an incompetent route runner, he just hasn't refined his technique yet. He has a very quick release off the line with a variety of moves to beat defenders at the start of his routes. This is more evident in his college games than the pros where corners are playing much better technique across the board. Parker saw some things from defenders he likely didn't see as much in college. There is an adjustment period.

Parker due to his great leaping ability and body control can win contested catches frequently. So it doesn't matter as much with him to get full separation. He is still open.

If the focus is solely on route running you are kind of seeing the forest instead of the tree that Parker is. Route running is not the end all be all of a WR skill set. It is important, see Cordarralle Patterson, but it isn't everything. WR win in more ways than by running good routes.

I like Harmons work, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying you should think for yourself and don't let any one perspective dominate your view of the entire picture.

 

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19 minutes ago, Biabreakable said:

He doesn't look at every route of every game. Eight games is a usual sample size and honestly a full 16 game sample size isn't enough to draw any real conclusion in my opinion. But as I have heard Matt say on the audible or something he would rather have a life than to chart a full sample size of games.

For Parker who was dealing with two injuries didn't play in that much in the first 10 games, so maybe he could have fit all of his games from 2016 into his busy schedule. Parker only played on 468 offensive snaps last season.

2015 snap counts.

As you can see Parker didn't really get worked into the offense until the 11th game of the season. He did get more work in game 3 against Buffalo as they were being blown out. He had a total of 114 offensive snaps during the first 10 games. This is 24% of his plays. He had 8 targets during this time frame, seven of them in the Buffalo game. How useful is it to chart his routes during this time frame? 

Parker was a rookie.

His coaches got fired.

If you watch his college games that adds more to the overall evaluation of the player. I have done that several times. Sounds like you have also 80's as you liked him a lot going into the NFL draft.

Parker certainly needs to work on his route running, that was a legit criticism of his skill set as a college player also. Many people talked about him not getting as much separation on his routes as they would like, yet Parker would win anyways because of ability to win with the ball in the air.. He demonstrates the skill and ability to improve as a route runner over time. He is not an incompetent route runner, he just hasn't refined his technique yet. He has a very quick release off the line with a variety of moves to beat defenders at the start of his routes. This is more evident in his college games than the pros where corners are playing much better technique across the board. Parker saw some things from defenders he likely didn't see as much in college. There is an adjustment period.

Parker due to his great leaping ability and body control can win contested catches frequently. So it doesn't matter as much with him to get full separation. He is still open.

If the focus is solely on route running you are kind of seeing the forest instead of the tree that Parker is. Route running is not the end all be all of a WR skill set. It is important, see Cordarralle Patterson, but it isn't everything. WR win in more ways than by running good routes.

I like Harmons work, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying you should think for yourself and don't let any one perspective dominate your view of the entire picture.

 

 

Great points. Harmon has even pointed out himself that he missed on guys like Sammy Watkins last year because he doesn't fully know how to account for players coming off of an injury. I was tempted to dump Watkins last offseason after Harmon said his reception perception was "icky", but held course after going back and watching Watkins again to check if I agreed with Harmon's criticism. 

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I am sticking to my positive view of Parker, but Harmon's perspective (combined with the foot injury history and the run heavy playcalling we saw from Gase last year)  do create some skepticism. I have him just below Floyd and Moncrief. He is my 46th overall player which is about 23 spots ahead of ADP.  I have a 5th round grade on him. 

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18 hours ago, Biabreakable said:

These are great, and kind of a must-see for fantasy owners.  I didn't watch much Dolphins last year, and I don't plan on watching much this year, so how to form an opinion on a guy?  In 11 minutes, to see every target is great.  

What I noticed:

  • I really liked the way he catches the ball in stride a lot.  On deeper slants and crosses, a lot of average WRs slow down, or even stop, when they don't have to.  That smoothness, that Jerry Rice-ness, creates scoring chances on routine plays.  That trailing CB misses the tackle, or the S whiffs, and you have a TD.  Those deeper slants should be his bread and butter.  
  • He plays above the rim.  Really comfortable in the air, which makes him play tall.  Good, because he has Tanneill at QB.  There were a few times I thought he didn't have to leave the ground to make the play, but maybe that's him not waiting for the ball, and that's a good thing.  Fades inside the 10 look like they are going to be a recurring theme.  
  • I didn't notice a time when he was hearing footsteps, and I was looking for it.  Can't be a true #1 if you won't work the middle, or aren't a tough guy.  There were a few times it would have been understandable, where Tanny missed on a slant, and there was a safety bearing down.  

 

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2 hours ago, Biabreakable said:

Parker certainly needs to work on his route running, that was a legit criticism of his skill set as a college player also. Many people talked about him not getting as much separation on his routes as they would like, yet Parker would win anyways because of ability to win with the ball in the air.. He demonstrates the skill and ability to improve as a route runner over time. He is not an incompetent route runner, he just hasn't refined his technique yet. He has a very quick release off the line with a variety of moves to beat defenders at the start of his routes. This is more evident in his college games than the pros where corners are playing much better technique across the board. Parker saw some things from defenders he likely didn't see as much in college. There is an adjustment period.

Parker due to his great leaping ability and body control can win contested catches frequently. So it doesn't matter as much with him to get full separation. He is still open.

If the focus is solely on route running you are kind of seeing the forest instead of the tree that Parker is. Route running is not the end all be all of a WR skill set. It is important, see Cordarralle Patterson, but it isn't everything. WR win in more ways than by running good routes.

I like Harmons work, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying you should think for yourself and don't let any one perspective dominate your view of the entire picture.

 

 

see i think him getting separation is going to be the key between WR1 and wr3 status here.  winning jump balls is fine, but if he isn't getting open on short and intermediate routes is a bad QB like tannehill going to throw when it appears the defender is on him?  that NYG monday night game is a prime example of the separation issues, he only saw 4 or 5 targets because DRC was stuck to him like glue all night.  it will be interesting to see how he looks in pre-season, because if he can refine technique look out

 

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Yeah I don't think the criticism of his route running technique is wrong. He has a lot of room for improvement there. I think he can and will improve in this area over time.

Where I may have some disagreement is about the relative importance of getting separation. This is something that has some differences in terms of your scoring format as well. More important to get consistent separation and targets in PPR leagues than standard leagues for high volume receptions. Parker is more of a down field threat. He averaged 19 yards per reception as a rookie last year. That is outstanding. He doesn't need high volume to get a lot of yards. He is very good after the catch as well. 

Adam Gase talking about the chemistry between Tannehill and Parker during OTAs speaks to your question about if Tannehill will target him even if the defender is close. As he learns and gets comfortable with what Parker can do, I think that leads to more trust and the targets will be there. In the last six games of the season Parker had 47 targets. Two games with 10, two with six and two with 5 targets. This is 7.8 targets per game which is similar volume to AJ Green with the Bengals has had.

Gase while speaking positively about Tannehill and Parkers chemistry, is also criticizing their play as well, calling it street ball. The hidden message in this praise is that he wants them both to play with better technique within his system.

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18 minutes ago, Sarlakticacid said:

It may have been said already in here but isn't Gase known for heavily targeting his WR 1? All i can think of atm was his time in Denver with Demaryius Thomas

 

I am very hesitant to try to translate those Denver numbers to Miami due to the presence of Manning. 

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1 hour ago, Ilov80s said:

I am very hesitant to try to translate those Denver numbers to Miami due to the presence of Manning. 

when healthy last season, alshon jeffrey put up fine numbers in gase's offense

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11 minutes ago, iamkoza said:

when healthy last season, alshon jeffrey put up fine numbers in gase's offense

No doubt about it. They also didn't really have a second option like Miami has with Landry. Denver was throwing the ball about a 100 times more per year than the Bears. The Bears were one of the most bajanced run to pass teams in the league last year. I think the number 1 WR should do well, but who is the number 1 WR in Miami?

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I think Gase will be more pass happy than John Fox. The entire Bears receiver corps were a mash unit last season. They didn't have much choice but be balanced.

With the way these RB  can't stay healthy Gase may not have a choice.

I am projecting 1050 total plays for the Dolphins in 2016 This is 70 more plays than the Dolphin's ran last season. Main difference being Gase's commitment to hurry up no huddle offense. The Dolphin's had 1040 plays in 2014. So I don't think 1050 is being too optimistic, but I would be interested in if people think it will be more or less than that?

The Bears has 1024 plays last season.

The Broncos had 1067 plays in 2014.

The Broncos has 1156 plays in 2013.

As far as run to pass ratio I think the Dolphin's will run the ball about 400 times. So there should be 600+ total passing attempts if they do run more than 1000 plays.

Tannehill has averaged 43 rushing attempts the last 3 seasons. So 350 rushing attempts to non QBs. I suppose you could argue for 450 rushing attempts and fewer passing attempts because of that. Tannehill has been just under 600 passing attempts the last 3 seasons. I don't really see it being lower than 600 passing attempts in 2016.

If Parker gets 24% of the passing attempts, that would be 144 targets. Maybe it is less than that, maybe more. Thomas had 142 or more targets with Gase, Jeffrey was on pace for 167 targets with the Bears last season.

 

Edited by Biabreakable

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DeVante Parker (hamstring) has missed the past four days of practice.

 

Kenny Stills has been running with the ones opposite Jarvis Landry all week, with rookie Leonte Carroo getting reps in three-wide sets. Parker's health has been a concern since he was picked 14th overall last year. He missed much of last training camp following foot surgery and then sat out parts of this year's OTAs with an undisclosed ailment. Consider him day to day.
 
 
Aug 5 - 10:14 AM

 

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The Miami Herald's Adam Beasley reports the Dolphins are "optimistic" DeVante Parker (hamstring) "will be back soon."

 

Parker has been sidelined for a week with a hamstring injury. After dealing with foot issues as a rookie, Parker is earning a reputation as an injury-prone player. He will be a locked-in starter regardless of how much time he misses in training camp, but he still needs to get back on the field quickly.
 
 

 

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3 hours ago, Sabertooth said:

Fat lady ain't singing yet but she's in attendance.  

Overreact much?

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The blogpost from the injury makes me think the coaching staff is being a bit overcautious after the injury:

 

Wide receiver DeVante Parker was held out of practice because he tweaked a hamstring during practice the day before -- Monday. I'm told by a source the team does not believe the injury to be serious. 

The team believes the injury might have something to do with Parker not hydrating enough either before, during or after practices.

And so during drills Monday, Parker felt a tug at his hamstring but wanted to keep working. Sure enough, he kept going and tweaked it.

"I wasn’t very smart and shouldn't have put him out in two-minute," coach Adam Gase said. "He felt something. So we brought him back in there. He was a little bit dehydrated. We felt like if we gave him today off with tomorrow off, we think we should get him back soon.”

The Dolphins are going to talk with Parker and ask him to be more proactive with his hydration. And if that doesn't work, they're going to make sure somebody monitors how much he drinks to make sure he's hydrated.

Rookie Leonte Carroo took first team snaps in Parker's absence today.

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16 hours ago, Sabertooth said:

Better to move too early than too late.  Kid has been hurt his whole career so far.  

What do you move him for at this point?  Do you drop him out of your top 20 for dynasty?

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Top 20 receivers?  

He's borderline I guess.  

Just looking at FBG rankings for dynasty receivers, I like Cooks, Hilton, Alshon, Cobb, and Coleman better.  He's just been so fragile.  OTOH he's shown he can play.  I'd let him go for a 2017 1st right now if I figured it was in the top half of the round.  

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I asked @JamesWalkerNFL if there's any way DeVante Parker becomes the #1 WR. He said no, Tannehill "trusts Landry" too much

 

On Parker compared to the other Dolphins receivers, James added "does he have the most natural ability and talent? Yes."

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Bump.  Had an owner offer him around, he's not a huge Parker fan, for some reason.  

Reading as much as I can now.  Might be able to get him for a discount.

Mattt Harmon's evaluation pre-draft:

 

Quote

DeVante Parker has been one of the tougher evaluations for me this draft season. Some of the attributes with this player are just intoxicating, but there are some troubling moments that go without discussion by his biggest supporters. In my first visit to the RSP Film Room, both Matt Waldman and I laid out our concerns with Parker’s game (and espoused some affection for a player of the same first name you’ll find later down this list). Parker gets heralded as one of the best release technicians in this class, but it’s fair to question whether he is as developed as reputed in this area. His size and quickness paralyzed many inferior athletes that lined up across from him. Slow reactions allowed Parker to fly off the line untouched. However, he never really developed a counter punch for when a more developed cornerback did not display the same hesitation. If NFL corners don’t fall for his bread and butter move, and they likely will not, how long will it take him to readjust? 

His route running needs some overhaul, despite having good potential here. While speed variance in-route can be a good thing, Parker borders on an out of control level. It would help if Parker did not fluctuate between gears so often in the same route, so that his quarterback can better rely on where he will be. This receiver also tips his routes off to those covering him. If he were more aggressive as a route runner, this would not be such a problem. At this point, Parker is unpredictable for his quarterback, but too predictable to those covering him. 

All that being said, and its plenty to worry about, Parker does have very palpable upside. His strides are excellent, effortless and a real chore for defenders to keep up with. Parker can eat up cushion in a hurry and, even though he needs to add nuance to do the same in the NFL, make a play deep. Despite a wiry frame, he’s fearless in traffic and is excellent at bringing in the contested catches. His fluidity and quickness make you believe he can develop in the areas that he needs work in to become a reliable technician. It’s just going to take work. While I own some very negative views surrounding Parker, and certainly think he does not belong on Cooper and White’s level, I believe he can rise above his issues. But it will be a longer process than many think, and he may well always have inconsistencies. DeVante Parker did primarily get by with being able to out-athlete his competition in college, and he needs some time in wide receiver refinement school. Yet, there were more than enough flashes to believe he will not fade away with other members of that archetype. 

Trump card: ability to eat up ground with his strides and lanky frame.

Pro comparison: both the ups and downs of Braylon Edwards

 

Edited by massraider

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if Gase's comment the other day about the offense now being all short and medium throws then Parker could be a PPR monster. 

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Small sample size and all, but the season pace for after Parker came back from injury was:

Parker 59/1187/8   166 standard   225 ppr

Landry 125/1349/3   152 standard  277 ppr 

 

 

 

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Landry to me was always a PPR monster, surrounded by stiffs in Jennings, Stills, and Jordan.  

 

If Carroo and Devante are the goods, his numbers will drop a lot.  Tannehill will either develop into a QB that can pass further than 15 yards, or he's gone.  

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41 minutes ago, Sabertooth said:

People dreaming of AJ Green like production are probably going to be disappointed.  

This.

He is being overvalued.

Lots of other players I'd rather have at his ADP.

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2 hours ago, Sabertooth said:

People dreaming of AJ Green like production are probably going to be disappointed.  

Totally different players with totally different roles though. Green, an established veteran, is #1 on the Bengals. Parker is in his 2nd year and playing 2nd fiddle to Landry. For redraft? absolutely. Dynasty? No way.

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In one league I'm in a guy got basically Jeffery straight up for him, each team included two other scrub players in the deal but no one worth mentioning. I don't own him anywhere, would definitely sell him if I did have him tho

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DeVante Parker caught 2-of-4 targets for eight yards in the Dolphins' third preseason game.

 

The takeaway is that Parker was operating as the No. 3 receiver, getting shut out of two-receiver sets by Kenny Stills. The third preseason game isn't usually message sending time, so it's quite possible Stills will open the year as a starter with Parker limited to three-wide looks. It's not time to sell all your Parker stock, of course. He's a legitimate playmaker the Dolphins desperately need to make noise on the boundary, but perhaps WR4/5 numbers should be the expectation for September. We're still drafting Parker on a Fins team that will use three receivers as its base offense. Parker closes the preseason with four grabs for 24 scoreless yards.
 
 
 
Aug 25 - 9:57 PM

 

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I moved him in a dynasty the other day for a 2017 1st Rounder that I hope is in the top 5.  I was loaded anyway but mainly I'm concerned that he's a square peg in a round hole down in Miami.  

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10 hours ago, Ilov80s said:

Parker is overdrafted. By a lot.

He's being drafted in the neighborhhod of Marvin Jones, Tyler Lockett, Kevin White, Sterling Shepard, Crabtree, Diggs, John Brown.  WR 35-40. I'd take him over Shepard, Diggs, Brown, maybe White. He was great the last 6 games of 2015, when he looked a little like Dez Bryant, but hasn't done much in pre-season. He's their most dynamic WR and could be their best GL receiving weapon - more size than Landry or Stills.  Miami's defense, especially LBs and DBs could be bad, so they could be playing from behind a lot. The biggest downside is (1) he'll be double-team a lot since the safeties don't respect Miami's TE, and (2) Tannehill is inconsistent, especially on longer passes. His slow pre-season could make him fall to the WR 40-50 range. 

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for dynasty, i am still a big fan of his. i think he's got more talent and ability than Stills for sure. he might not deliver on the promise this season in a big way. i'm okay with him getting a little more acclimated to the NFL. it used to be, until very recently, that Year 3 breakouts were the norm.

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1 hour ago, SoBeDad said:

He's being drafted in the neighborhhod of Marvin Jones, Tyler Lockett, Kevin White, Sterling Shepard, Crabtree, Diggs, John Brown.  WR 35-40. I'd take him over Shepard, Diggs, Brown, maybe White. He was great the last 6 games of 2015, when he looked a little like Dez Bryant, but hasn't done much in pre-season. He's their most dynamic WR and could be their best GL receiving weapon - more size than Landry or Stills.  Miami's defense, especially LBs and DBs could be bad, so they could be playing from behind a lot. The biggest downside is (1) he'll be double-team a lot since the safeties don't respect Miami's TE, and (2) Tannehill is inconsistent, especially on longer passes. His slow pre-season could make him fall to the WR 40-50 range. 

I really don't think he looked all that good last year. He had nice numbers, but wasn't all that good. What I saw yesterday was he only played 3WR sets. He struggled to get separation and wasn't getting targeted. I know it's just 1 half of football, but I can't draft a guy that high that might be the Dolphins WR3. 

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Weird situation. Feel like he's either going to be great or be a huge bust. No idea which but it's clear he's not clicking with this staff yet.

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6 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

Weird situation. Feel like he's either going to be great or be a huge bust. No idea which but it's clear he's not clicking with this staff yet.

I read it more like he doesn't yet know how to take care of his body.  Parker has been an elite talent all his life. Guys with that kind of talent can often skate through HS and College.  Doing the little things like eating right, hydrating appropriately, may not be things that he's ever taken seriously.  

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The risk/reward ratio might be approaching all out buy status for Parker, but the bottom may still be ahead of us.  

I'm eyeing Sept 12 (day after opening Sunday) which is always a nice day to go bargain shopping, but it's tough to pick spots that precisely.  You can probably get him by trading away somebody's handcuff or somebody's perfect bye week fit-- thus the price can't get much lower right now.

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His offseason, training camp and preseason have been a disappointment. That said, he did finish last season pretty strong and there is some opportunity for him to have success this year. He is definitely putting out a 'boom or bust' vibe.

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